Unofficial Bus Strike...

dub_commuter

markpb wrote: »

DB are refusing to speak to the drivers until they return to work. Right or wrong, it's not a great way to resolve a problem.

Have it bang on unfortunately. The fact that management are not even attempting to try and resolve thjis problem should be the final nail in their coffin, asw they are clearly not able to run a bus company and are completely out of their depth.

I think I speak for everyone than if bus drivers or other Dublin Bus staff are smashing windows that is not acceptable and of course is taking things too far.

However, the fact that DB management are unwilling to even TALK or NEGOTIATE, when the drivers already have made offers to do so, and to work old bills until a new agreement, shows that management are only escalating things.

meanmachine3

MiniD wrote: »

This has now spread to Harristown, Clontarf, Summerhill, Phibsobro, Broadstone and Conyngham Road. RTE News are reporting that drivers have smashed windows of buses and intimidated drivers from other garages who are still working.

guys there alot of confusion coming from the media about what garages are affected, as you know i'm A bus driver. i'm looking here there and everywhere to see if i'm affected yet or am going to be. basically i'm getting my info from you guys and that is the reality. on tv 3 news at 08.30 there was no mention of some garages listed above just back from watching the 09.30 again some garages listed above not mentioned

KC61

All routes out of Clontarf and Harristown garages have no service.
Services out of Phibsboro, Summerhill and Conyngham Road have a limited service.

Donnybrook and Ringsend based routes are fully operational.

dub_commuter

The DB site does not list Phibs as being effected.

MiniD

dub_commuter wrote: »

Have it bang on unfortunately. The fact that management are not even attempting to try and resolve thjis problem should be the final nail in their coffin, asw they are clearly not able to run a bus company and are completely out of their depth.

I think I speak for everyone than if bus drivers or other Dublin Bus staff are smashing windows that is not acceptable and of course is taking things too far.

However, the fact that DB management are unwilling to even TALK or NEGOTIATE, when the drivers already have made offers to do so, and to work old bills until a new agreement, shows that management are only escalating things.

Surely a better solution would be for the drivers to start working, collect passengers and then enter negotiations (which have been going on since January). Where are the unions in all this? I haven't heard one union spokesperson talk to the media since Sunday.

Dub Commuter, do you seriously support the actions by these drivers who are intimidating others? Who are causing criminal damage and damaging the company financially - I think there was €150,000 lost yesterday, I suspect it will be more today.

We've heard drivers complain before about harrassment by customers and intimidation while trying to do their work. Now they are dishing out the same behaviour to their fellow colleagues!

My name is Mud

shltter wrote: »

If I don't do what I am supposed to do when I am supposed to do it I will be disciplined and reprimanded the company have not done what they are supposed to and promised to do.

Thats brilliant!

Might as well have said:

"Dont do what Donny Dont does"

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

The DB site does not list Phibs as being effected.

Sorry...just going on the news reports - there do appear to be some buses not operating out of there.

dub_commuter

MiniD wrote: »

Dub Commuter, do you seriously support the actions by these drivers who are intimidating others? Who are causing criminal damage and damaging the company financially - I think there was €150,000 lost yesterday, I suspect it will be more today.

We've heard drivers complain before about harrassment by customers and intimidation while trying to do their work. Now they are dishing out the same behaviour to their fellow colleagues!

The people who are doing criminal damage are taking it too far and of coruse I do not support them at all, it's clearly not the answer and these people are going about it the wrong way. Protest by any means but breaking up buses is not the answer.

Dublin Bus had a choice to keep ONE bus running for TWO weeks, they still have that choice and have been offered to work the old timetable until the new one is clarrifed. This would stem their losses, running one extra bus out of 120 in the grand scheme of things would not cost them that much, certainly far less than risking an all out strike.

Any competent management team would realise, I know I would, that given the amount of effort that has gone into getting the cost cutting plan, and the little progress there has been until this weekend, getting 29/30 of the buses removed was a positive step forward from the stagnation we've had in recent weeks, and would just defer the one.

It's financially suicide for DB to risk a strike when they can just delay the entrance of one bus. They still can stop the strike RIGHT now. But it seems they are too stubborn to swallow their pride. They can lose a lot less money by simply putting back the changes for one route, not too difficult I'd have thought.

I really wish Dublin Bus would talk and get thsi resolved. But they are just sitting there waiting.

Ginny

dub_commuter wrote: »

The DB site does not list Phibs as being effected.

Like you said yesterday don't believe the DB website, how can there be limited service to Swords when there are no buses running out of Harristown.
I'd take the Db site updates with a pinch of salt.

martian1980

dub_commuter wrote: »

The people who are doing criminal damage are taking it too far and of coruse I do not support them at all, it's clearly not the answer and these people are going about it the wrong way. Protest by any means but breaking up buses is not the answer.

Dublin Bus had a choice to keep ONE bus running for TWO weeks, they still have that choice and have been offered to work the old timetable until the new one is clarrifed. This would stem their losses, running one extra bus out of 120 in the grand scheme of things would not cost them that much, certainly far less than risking an all out strike.

Any competent management team would realise, I know I would, that given the amount of effort that has gone into getting the cost cutting plan, and the little progress there has been until this weekend, getting 29/30 of the buses removed was a positive step forward from the stagnation we've had in recent weeks, and would just defer the one.

It's financially suicide for DB to risk a strike when they can just delay the entrance of one bus. They still can stop the strike RIGHT now. But it seems they are too stubborn to swallow their pride. They can lose a lot less money by simply putting back the changes for one route, not too difficult I'd have thought.

I really wish Dublin Bus would talk and get thsi resolved. But they are just sitting there waiting.

that just encourages staff to do whatever they want. If they left the old timetable on that route, you'd have other drivers saying "well, if he's not doing it, I'm not doing it". You can't manage a company that way.

dub_commuter

martian1980 wrote: »

that just encourages staff to do whatever they want. If they left the old timetable on that route, you'd have other drivers saying "well, if he's not doing it, I'm not doing it". You can't manage a company that way.

No, it's called the agreed procedure that has existed in Dublin Bus for years, that Dublin Bus violated. Dublin Bus clearly stated prior to the Labour Court that they would use the agreed procedure prior to introducing new timetables rather than forcing new duties onto drivers without notice and they haven't done so. It has been the case for many years.

The old timetable would only be a temporary thing, until the issues with the current ones are ironed out. If management solely had controls of bills with no input from the people who run them it would have a negative effect on the bus service.

MiniD

Who's to say these drivers won't have another issue with the next batch of changes on May 10th. How long more do Dublin Bus have to wait?

They need to implement these changes now, not next week, now. This was backed up by the labour court. Dublin Bus are loosing half a million a week.

If, as you say, it's just one bus causing all this, then is that really justified to causing a strike?

There are two sides to this dispute. You calling Dublin Bus management incompetent is just your opinion, nothing more. Again, where are the unions in all this?

hmmm

dub_commuter wrote: »

rather than forcing new duties onto drivers

Like asking them to drive a bus on a slightly different route? My god the imposition.

A drivers job is to drive, not to decide which routes are acceptable or not to them.

Jip

Bambi wrote: »

As for privatising the buses, well go ahead, as long as you don't mind that only people living in profitable areas will have a bus service. There'll be hundreds of buses in Blackrock and Foxrock and Ranelagh, and none in Ballymun, Finglas and Darndale. All those grannies and people with passes can walk everywhere.

Yourself and the poster previous to yourself who said the same thing haven't a clue. People living in these "profitable" areas are in fact less reliant on buses and therefore would not use them as often.

Just heard on Radio 1 news that their true colours are coming out. Intimidation of drivers not supporting them and the breaking of windows of one bus that tried to leave a garage. Fu(king (unts. I now no longer see a problem with Dublin Bus management refusing to meet with their drivers to discuss this, a lock out will sort them out.

_blank_

Jip wrote: »

Just heard on Radio 1 news that their true colours are coming out. Intimidation of drivers not supporting them and the breaking of windows of one bus that tried to leave a garage. Fu(king (unts. I now no longer see a problem with Dublin Bus management refusing to meet with their drivers to discuss this, a lock out will sort them out.

****, each and every one of them.

Moreso the ones who stood by and watched it happen.

Fúcking cavemen.

KC61

Ginny wrote: »

Like you said yesterday don't believe the DB website, how can there be limited service to Swords when there are no buses running out of Harristown.
I'd take the Db site updates with a pinch of salt.

Most of the buses serving Swords (33 and 41) operate from Summerhill depot. There are some buses operating on these routes, but not all.

The 33B, 102 and some peak extras on the 41 are operated from Harristown. These are not operating.

dfx-

KC61 wrote: »

Sorry...just going on the news reports - there do appear to be some buses not operating out of there.

On my way in I saw AV316 departing Drimnagh on the 121, two 151s (C/Road) in close attendance to each other and then suddenly a stream of outbound Ringsend routes after nothing for a long while..

My name is Mud

I love these "agreed procedures". Maximise the red tape. I bet there is a union agreement about the amount & variety of biscuits that DB has to supply per week in the staff canteen.

Freakin' unions...dont get me wrong - Im for the idea of protecting workers rights.

But the unions have evolved into a farcical-like entity, that cause more grief than anything else. Beardy idiots.

I mean, the principle of a worker being paid incrementally more wages for simply being in the job for a certain amount of time? I understand cost of living increases, but long service increases? Pfft. Should be based on hard work and performance. If I dont do my job properly, or work hard, I dont get paid more. Simple as.

This whole situtation mushroomed into all sorts of nonsence practices setup by unions. To change a simple thing like a bus timetable, you need union approval, followed by LRC approval, then a further review by workers, followed by implementation.

ITS A BUS TIMETABLE.

IT NEEDS TO BE FLEXIBLE ALL THE TIME.

Idiots.

whippet

as a private, un-unionised worker I am at a total loss as to how anyone can defend the actions of any workers who refuse to work for their employer when a majority voted for the changes.

Bus drivers who are earning an average of about €50k per year refusing to drive a slightly different route from the day before should be sacked, not suspended.

In these economic times, I do and have to do anything that my employer asks of me – not to keep my job personally, but to ensure the viability of the company itself who is employing me.

These drivers work in a cocoon, historically protected by unions, the threat of strikes and farcical social partnership – in my opinion they are greedy scumbags. They probably sit in their subsidised canteens, eating their subsidised breakfasts / lunches / dinners, demanding more overtime to pay for their second holiday while giving out about the greedy developers and bankers who have crippled the economy … they are no different, these leeches feeding off taxpayers money and refusing to accept any blame for the massive hole in the government purse.

Let them strike, don’t pay them, get the army in to drive the buses, let private operators take up the routes … then see how long they will hold up the pickets when they don’t have their overtime to pay the mortgage on that apartment in Bulgaria which they can’t rent out and probably blame the government for!!!!

A rude awakening is around the corner. Bus drivers are semi-skilled workers and their pay and conditions should reflect that.

Now … I sit back and wait for the backlash .. but I am just calling a spade a spade as I see it !!!!

meanmachine3

martian1980 wrote: »

that just encourages staff to do whatever they want. If they left the old timetable on that route, you'd have other drivers saying "well, if he's not doing it, I'm not doing it". You can't manage a company that way.

wrong, wrong wrong.
theres alot of scare mongering out there and people yes you the general public calling for blood on this one. your calling for drivers to be sacked on the spot, calling for privatisation is not helpnig one bit, right i know the way most of you guys write and some of it is just blowing steam and thats because i'm on here alot but to a driver that comes on here reading most of your posts for the first time is just antaganosing the hardliners even more.
let me spell it out for you.
the drivers have no problems in changing bills, loosing 120 buses etc. the 160 lads jobs were always safe.
what the drivers do have a problem with is only this and nothing more.
the procedures that were promised by a ceratin man in head office were not followed through as promised.he gave a commitment that the new schedules would be introduced by the letter.
maybe just maybe someone from the media should be asking this cleona one ( spokesperson from dublin bus) why the promised/ guaranteed procedures weren't followed through. thats the only thing that needs to be asked. ok your one from H/O is saying that the L.R.C. or whoever it was said that introductions were to commence on 26th april no matter the out come of the last ballot. the new schedules introduced on 26th may are only about half of the schedule changes ,the other half are coming in on may 10th. they could've easily substituted another schedule from another garage for the 128.
harris has always been a powderkeg, we all know this from previous incidents but we all forgot about them incl myself.

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

No, it's called the agreed procedure that has existed in Dublin Bus for years, that Dublin Bus violated. Dublin Bus clearly stated prior to the Labour Court that they would use the agreed procedure prior to introducing new timetables rather than forcing new duties onto drivers without notice and they haven't done so. It has been the case for many years.

The old timetable would only be a temporary thing, until the issues with the current ones are ironed out. If management solely had controls of bills with no input from the people who run them it would have a negative effect on the bus service.

How ultimately the company is managed and implements change is probably the single greatest issue facing Dublin Bus. The service needs a complete overhaul and timetables redesigned to reflect customer demand, and to be simplified into a clockface, regular interval service on each corridor. This is going to require a major redesign.

The fact remains that marked in drivers have an effective veto over any changes, and have received compensation for changes in route/termini. Meanwhile junior drivers have no such option.

Whether this model of operation is sustainable in the current economic climate is very much open to question. I think that most companies would view this as impossible conditions with which to manage a company. It effectively means that management's hands are tied when they want to implement any changes. And this was a key point in the Deloitte report.

As I've said on many occasions before, however, in the immediate timeframe what needs to happen is that people stand back from diametrically opposed positions and start to talk to one another as otherwise there will not be any bus service to operate.

_blank_

meanmachine3 wrote: »

wrong, wrong wrong.
theres alot of scare mongering out there and people yes the public calling for blood on this one. your calling for drivers to be sacked on the spot, calling for privatisation is not helpnig one bit, right i know the way most of you guys write and some of it is just blowing steam and thats because i'm on here alot but to a driver that comes on here reading most of your posts for the firat time is just antaganosing the hardliners even more.
let me spell it out for you.
the drivers have no problems in changing bills, loosing 120 buses etc. the 160 lads jobs were always safe.
what the drivers do have a problem with is only this and nothing more.
the procedures that were promised by a ceratin man in head office were not followed through as promised.he gave a commitment that the new schedules would be introduced by the letter.
maybe just maybe someone from the media should be asking this cleona one ( spokesperson from dublin bus) why the promised/ guaranteed procedures weren't followed through. thats the only thing that needs to be asked. ok your one from H/O is saying that the L.R.C. or whoever it was said that introductions were to commence on 26th april no matter the out come of the last ballot. the new schedules introduced on 26th may are only about half of the schedule changes ,the other half are coming in on may 10th. they could've easily substituted another schedule from another garage for the 128.
harris has always been a powderkeg, we all know this from previous incidents but we all forgot about them incl myself.

Are you a striking Bus Driver?

My name is Mud

meanmachine3 wrote: »

the L.R.C. or whoever it was said that introductions were to commence on 26th april no matter the out come of the last ballot. the new schedules introduced on 26th may are only about half of the schedule changes ,the other half are coming in on may 10th.

And herein lies the problem - too much red tape to change something as trivial as a bus timetable, caused by...UNIONS.

If the timetable dosent work, let the customer vote with their feet to get DB management to change their timetable. Im sure commuters give the best feedback on... I dunno...COMMUTING?

Drivers holding the customers up for ransom is stupidity at the highest level.

_blank_

My name is Mud wrote: »

Drivers holding the customers up for ransom is stupidity at the highest level.

Which is exactly what they are doing, and exactly why people are angry at them.

Why does it have to take so long to change a timetable? WHY do the drivers have a veto?

If any driver can answer that without using union rhetoric and doublespeak, I'd be shocked.

Tom Dunne

So let me get this right - my employer cuts my wages by 10%, changes my work practices, even down to getting rid of the water cooler and I carry on, thankful to have a job, not having a whole lot of choice in the matter.

Meanwhile, over in Fantasy Land that is Dublin Bus, a change is made to a route and everyone down tools and goes on strike, grinding a percentage of North Dublin to a halt.

Here's how Ronald Regan handled the striking Air Traffic Controllers in the '80s. Do you reckon any of our illustrious leaders will somehow develop a spine and stand up to these militant thugs?

whippet

meanmachine3 wrote: »

the drivers have no problems in changing bills, loosing 120 buses etc. the 160 lads jobs were always safe.

by their actions they do seem to have a problem.

meanmachine3 wrote: »

what the drivers do have a problem with is only this and nothing more.
the procedures that were promised by a ceratin man in head office were not followed through as promised.he gave a commitment that the new schedules would be introduced by the letter.

So the guy I just heard on the radio saying they are taking this action to 'highlight their plight' .. is calling the lack of following this procedure to the latter a 'plight'.

Famine victims have a plight, genocide victims have a plight, the oppressed blacks in pre 1992 south africia had a plight ... bus drivers asked to drive a slightly different route do not have a plight ..........

dub_commuter

The situation with DB is more like:

So let me get this right - my employer puts something out to ballot, and tells me if I vote yes he will not cut my wages or my work practices, even down to getting rid of the water cooler and I carry on, thankful to have a job and when I vote yes, he still cuts my wages and changes my work practices not having a whole lot of choice in the matter despite having said he would not do this if I voted yes.

Key being DB made several agreements if they voted for the deal that various practices would be upheld, in order to force the deal through. Your circumstance Tom is a horrible one to be in, but the difference here is drivers voted for something as the management said they would do something if they did vote for it. They voted for it and now management have changed their tune.

It's not as simple as cutting perks or wages as if they would have said that they would not use the agreed procedure I doubt they would have got a yes ballot, so they said they would even though they had no inteiton of doing so to force a vote through.

_blank_

Dublin Bus is losing money left right and centre.

The Workers have to take a hit, just like everyone else in the country.

But, the workers aren't striking over money. According to themselves.

They are striking because they were asked to drive a bus on a bit of a different route/timetable.

It's a disgrace.

An unmitigated disgrace.

Caused by the Unions.

Jaysoose

Really astounded by the detachment from reality of these guys, an agreed procedure was broken....there was a different route blah blah blah, you drive a bus...who cares what route it is you get paid to drive so what if you are working half an hour etc get over it. The years of increments in wages for no improvement in performance have created the sense of 'entitlement' which is vulgar in the extreme

Sad thing is the same guys giving out about the unions etc will hide behind them to protect their unjustified incremental salaries when it suits them.

No sympathy how about dublin bus go down to the local dole office and hand out applications im sure they will get thousands of takers.

Tom Dunne

dub_commuter wrote: »

The situation with DB is more like:

Yeah right. The Dublin Bus workers are the ones hard done by here, of course. They are the victims, standing up to the Evil Tyranny, while at the same time shafting a large percentage of North Dublin.

The day and age of strikes to settle industrial disputes are long gone. If, like every other worker in the Private Sector, they had the threat of being fired hanging over them, you could rest assured they would actually do the job they are paid for.