The Stephens Green Job Queue.

AlekSmart

I`m following the media reporting of the Griffin Group/Centra recruitment "event" which burst upon an unsuspecting St Stephens Green last Wed (22nd).

The first thing which struck me when looking at the press photos of the queue was the number of tanned faces looking up at the lens.

Making a mental note of this I moved swiftly on and turned to more important items such as the Lotto etc.

Then today I see the story behind the pics fleshed out a tad....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/anger-as-job-seekers-told-to-queue-up-in-the-street-1720300.html



The group MD Seamus Griffin presented some pretty incredible statistics on the demographics of the applicants.....
In excess of 2,000 applicants for 150 positions.
Less than 5% were Irish.
C.50% were Brazillian !

Hells Bells Betsy,what are these stats telling us...?

Something is not quite right here surely....or am I not tuned in to the current channel at all ?

BRAZIL ?

I`m assuming that Brazillian folks studying here would not have access to the Irish DSFA allowances to the extent that the natives have ?
Could this alone be responsible for such a massive disparity in these numbers ?

Is there an Investigative Journalist in the house ?

tba

it simple enough I'd say, tell one Brazilian about a job and the social network would tell the rest.

There'd be alot more Brazilian people in the country than you'd think. A fair few people I went to college with shared accommodation with Brazilians.

God knows why they would want to be here working in a Londis rather than Brazil...

djpbarry

Article on this in today's Times too:

According to Griffin, less than 2½ per cent of the people in that queue were Irish. “A huge amount from Pakistan,” said Griffin. “A huge amount from Brazil. The Brazilians have a great networking system.”

Some people in the queue were turned down, Griffin says, on the basis that their English was poor, or that they did not have sufficient experience.

The make-up of that jobs queue on Wednesday was a reflection of the people who already work in Londis stores: foreign nationals. They are paid according to the guidelines laid down by the relevant Joint Labour Committee – in other words above the minimum wage of €8.65 per hour. These are the people who took, and continue to take, the jobs that the Irish won’t do.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0427/1224245443843.html

I must admit that I'm quite surprised at the demographics too, but more so with the tiny number of Irish applications rather than anything else. For the last number of months I've been reading posts from Irish posters here on boards telling of all the jobs they were applying for that scarcely even yielded an interview. Where were all of ye last Wednesday?

EDIT: I should probably add that I'm not attempting to rile anyone - I'm genuinely curious.

DrumSteve

there must have been a brazilian of them outside har har har


- Ill get my coat.

mikemac

djpbarry wrote: »

Where were all of ye last Wednesday?

Don't all live in Dublin I suppose

djpbarry

mikemac wrote: »

Don't all live in Dublin I suppose

Granted, but I'm sure a reasonable number do.

O'Morris

djpbarry wrote: »

Article on this in today's Times too:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0427/1224245443843.html

I must admit that I'm quite surprised at the demographics too, but more so with the tiny number of Irish applications rather than anything else. For the last number of months I've been reading posts from Irish posters here on boards telling of all the jobs they were applying for that scarcely even yielded an interview. Where were all of ye last Wednesday?

EDIT: I should probably add that I'm not attempting to rile anyone - I'm genuinely curious.

I'm geniunely curious too djpbarry. I'm not curious about the low number of lazy Irish people in the queue. That's to be expected. They were probably all down the pub drinking their dole money and complaining about the foreigners taking their jobs.

What I'm curious about is why there seems to have been a disproportionate number of non-EU nationals in the queue. The article mentions huge numbers of hard-working Brazilians and Pakistanis but why was no mention made of the huge numbers of hard-working Poles and Latvians and Lithuanians? I'm sure they probably were well represented among the rest but the fact that the article mentions huge numbers of Brazilians and Pakistanis but not huge numbers of Poles is very interesting.

The fact that the lazy Irish were outnumbered by hard-working foreigners is not surprising. It would be very surprising if it turns out that hard-working EU nationals were outnumbered by hard-working non-EU nationals. I just hope the Poles on the dole aren't starting to go the way of the Irish. If that happens then we really are screwed.

herya

I presume that Brazilians and Pakistanis were mentioned as they stand out physically (try telling a Latvian from a Czech when you see them in a queue). And I can definitely confirm that Brazilian network is amazing, I was told by a Brazilian "we all know each other" and they have large social parties just to stay in touch, also have flags out in the windows where they live to indicate a "Brazilian house" to fellow Brazilians.

Small Change

Hmmm, considering that the Independent reported 2,000 applicants of whom 5% were Irish and the Times reported 200 applicants and 2.5% Irish, and that our understanding of the entire composition of the queue is based on the comments of ONE observer who has been obviously misrepresented by at least one newspaper, I wouldn't really be drawing too many conclusions apart from maybe:

• There was an interview process for jobs at Griffin/Centra
• There were a lot of applicants
• Applicants queued in the street
• A lot of the applicants were foreign

O'Morris

herya wrote:

I presume that Brazilians and Pakistanis were mentioned as they stand out physically (try telling a Latvian from a Czech when you see them in a queue).

You're probably right. I would be very interested in seeing what percentage of the queue was made up of EU nationals though. It would be very surprising if it turned out that people from outside the EU outnumbered EU nationals. Unemployed Irish people turning their noses up at good jobs is bad enough but unemployed Poles doing the same thing would be a very worrying development. As with the lazy Irish, there's a danger that some of these eastern Europeans might be getting a bit too comfortable on the dole in this country.

Small Change wrote:

Hmmm, considering that the Independent reported 2,000 applicants of whom 5% were Irish and the Times reported 200 applicants and 2.5% Irish, and that our understanding of the entire composition of the queue is based on the comments of ONE observer who has been obviously misrepresented by at least one newspaper

I haven't seen the Independent article but according to the Irish Times, the source of the 2.5% claim was a Londis manager who would have been overseeing the whole thing.

According to Griffin, less than 2½ per cent of the people in that queue were Irish. “A huge amount from Pakistan,” said Griffin. “A huge amount from Brazil. The Brazilians have a great networking system.”

Although, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if he would be a very reliable source. It would be in his interest to underestimate the actual percentage of Irish in the queue. Most of the new jobs will go to foreigners anyway and so to avoid accusations that Londis are discriminating against Irish people he could just turn around and reply that so few of them applied for the jobs. The lower the estimate given, the easier it will be for Londis to avoid any negative PR. If he is the only source of the 2.5% figure then I would be inclined to discount it and go with a higher figure.

herya

O'Morris wrote: »

Unemployed Irish people turning their noses up at good jobs is bad enough but unemployed Poles doing the same thing would be a very worrying development. As with the lazy Irish, there's a danger that some of these eastern Europeans might be getting a bit too comfortable on the dole in this country.

Just to give you a real life example, there were redundancies in my sister's company a few ago, about a dozen people let go, many of them Polish (her included). They are all looking for jobs v actively, some of them are already employed. She is not ashamed to apply to Spars etc although she's a qualified employee fluent in 3 languages. She says she'd be ashamed to use welfare resources and if she won't find anything in a couple of weeks she's going to Italy. That's EU free market for you.

SWL

O'Morris wrote: »

You're probably right. I would be very interested in seeing what percentage of the queue was made up of EU nationals though. It would be very surprising if it turned out that people from outside the EU outnumbered EU nationals. Unemployed Irish people turning their noses up at good jobs is bad enough but unemployed Poles doing the same thing would be a very worrying development. As with the lazy Irish, there's a danger that some of these eastern Europeans might be getting a bit too comfortable on the dole in this country.




I haven't seen the Independent article but according to the Irish Times, the source of the 2.5% claim was a Londis manager who would have been overseeing the whole thing.



Although, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if he would be a very reliable source. It would be in his interest to underestimate the actual percentage of Irish in the queue. Most of the new jobs will go to foreigners anyway and so to avoid accusations that Londis are discriminating against Irish people he could just turn around and reply that so few of them applied for the jobs. The lower the estimate given, the easier it will be for Londis to avoid any negative PR. If he is the only source of the 2.5% figure then I would be inclined to discount it and go with a higher figure.

More Irish than the Irish themselves - tis a great little country mosney couldn't do it better

O'Morris

O'Morris wrote: »

Although, now that I think of it, I'm not sure if he would be a very reliable source. It would be in his interest to underestimate the actual percentage of Irish in the queue. Most of the new jobs will go to foreigners anyway and so to avoid accusations that Londis are discriminating against Irish people he could just turn around and reply that so few of them applied for the jobs. The lower the estimate given, the easier it will be for Londis to avoid any negative PR. If he is the only source of the 2.5% figure then I would be inclined to discount it and go with a higher figure.

That's what I was thinking. I wonder when I go in there from time to time will I see even one Irish person working there. I guess they'd be all sorts of trouble with their "rights" and all that cod.

simu

O'Morris wrote: »

I'm geniunely curious too djpbarry. I'm not curious about the low number of lazy Irish people in the queue. That's to be expected. They were probably all down the pub drinking their dole money and complaining about the foreigners taking their jobs.

The fact that the lazy Irish were outnumbered by hard-working foreigners is not surprising. It would be very surprising if it turns out that hard-working EU nationals were outnumbered by hard-working non-EU nationals. I just hope the Poles on the dole aren't starting to go the way of the Irish. If that happens then we really are screwed.

Are you for real? Reverse racism is racism too. I'd advise seeking a counsellor to help you with your self-loathing issues if you're Irish!

You can't assume that Irish people are unwilling to do these jobs (and indeed my local corner shop in Cork City has mostly Irish staff) - there must be other reasons. It would be interesting if a journalist investigated this because it sounds like there's more to it than meets the eye.

SWL

simu wrote: »

Are you for real? Reverse racism is racism too. I'd advise seeking a counsellor to help you with your self-loathing issues if you're Irish!

You can't assume that Irish people are unwilling to do these jobs (and indeed my local corner shop in Cork City has mostly Irish staff) - there must be other reasons. It would be interesting if a journalist investigated this because it sounds like there's more to it than meets the eye.

From previous post his tongue is firmly in his cheek

The Raven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf31q4TC790

It's hard to believe :eek:!! I don't know if the Brazilian statistics are accurate, but even if they were all Irish, I'd still find the length of the queue incredible. It is very inconsiderate of Londis to conduct their recruiting in this demeaning manner.

herya

The Raven. wrote: »

It is very inconsiderate of Londis to conduct their recruiting in this demeaning manner.

Indeed. But everybody knows that there's a Londis in SSG now.

thebman

simu wrote: »

Are you for real? Reverse racism is racism too. I'd advise seeking a counsellor to help you with your self-loathing issues if you're Irish!

You can't assume that Irish people are unwilling to do these jobs (and indeed my local corner shop in Cork City has mostly Irish staff) - there must be other reasons. It would be interesting if a journalist investigated this because it sounds like there's more to it than meets the eye.

In fairness a lot of Irish people would be deemed over qualified for the position.

Some are probably lazy but even if 2.5% were Irish, one of them would probably get the job over the foreign nationals because they are Irish.

gurramok

djpbarry wrote: »

Granted, but I'm sure a reasonable number do.

The jobs were advertised on the window afaik like in the video.

I live in Dublin and so do many of my friends(all still employed thankfully), not one has walked down that street in a long time and to notice that window sign is pushing it!

Plus, not many unemployed would live/hang around the Stephens Green area as after all its a very expensive area to live in.

Its obviously word of mouth from regulars that pass that way frequently which generated that queue.

Londis are publicity hungry. They should of did it like other companies, post your cv in and wait for the call technique.

Highsider

The queue is only a snapshot of what is happening in the country on the whole.

AARRRGH

I stood next to the queue and spoke to some of the people in it. I'd say I was there for about 15 minutes.

I can confirm there were practically no Irish people, and nearly everyone had dark skin.

There 2000 figure is nonsense though. Something like 500 would be more accurate.

djpbarry

gurramok wrote: »

I live in Dublin and so do many of my friends(all still employed thankfully), not one has walked down that street in a long time and to notice that window sign is pushing it!

Seems quite a lot of people did notice it – perhaps they have better eyesight than you and your friends?

gurramok wrote: »

Plus, not many unemployed would live/hang around the Stephens Green area as after all its a very expensive area to live in.

:rolleyes: You’re clutching at straws now. Unemployed people aren’t supposed to be “hanging around” anywhere – they’re supposed to be looking for work.

AARRRGH

djpbarry wrote: »

Seems quite a lot of people did notice it – perhaps they have better eyesight than you and your friends?

In fairness I walk past that shop twice a day and I didn't see it either.

O'Morris

AARRRGH wrote: »

I can confirm there were practically no Irish people, and nearly everyone had dark skin.

Do you know if there were there many eastern European people in the queue? Would you say they were outnumbered by the non-Europeans?

I think the preponderance of non-EU nationals in that queue is in need of an explanation. As we have tens of thousands of EU citizens out of work in this country I would have expected them to have made up a much greater share of the total.

Irish jobs for EU nationals! That's my attitude anyhow.

AARRRGH

O'Morris wrote: »

Do you know if there were there many eastern European people in the queue? Would you say they were outnumbered by the non-Europeans?

From what I could see, the majority of people were Indian/Pakistani or at least, very tanned.

I didn't see many Polish looking people in the queue.

SkepticOne

O'Morris wrote: »

I think the preponderance of non-EU nationals in that queue is in need of an explanation. As we have tens of thousands of EU citizens out of work in this country I would have expected them to have made up a much greater share of the total.

Irish jobs for EU nationals! That's my attitude anyhow.

Why weren't the EU nationals in the queue then? I'm not sure you are drawing valid conclusions from the composition of a queue for some jobs.

If it was the case that the queue was mainly EU nationals but a non-EU national was given the job, then you might have a point.

garrincha62

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

There'd be alot more Brazilian people in the country than you'd think. A fair few people I went to college with shared accommodation with Brazilians.

God knows why they would want to be here working in a Londis rather than Brazil...

Working in Londis will make a hell of a lot more than similar types of jobs in Brazil. I know many Brazilians who have come here, worked in menial jobs, saved up their hard earned money and sent it home.

O'Morris

AARRRGH wrote:

From what I could see, the majority of people were Indian/Pakistani or at least, very tanned.

I noticed that as well from looking at the video on youtube.

AARRRGH wrote:

I didn't see many Polish looking people in the queue.

Interesting.

SkepticOne wrote:

Why weren't the EU nationals in the queue then?

The Irish were probably all down the pub drinking their dole money and complaining about the foreigners taking their jobs. I don't know why there were so few eastern Europeans in the queue though. Unlike the Irish, they probably have a valid excuse, an excuse which I'm sure the people continually putting down Irish people will be happy to provide on their behalf.

SkepticOne wrote:

I'm not sure you are drawing valid conclusions from the composition of a queue for some jobs.

The point I'm making is that the under-representation of EU-nationals in the queue is in need of an explanation as much as the under-representation of Irish people in the queue is in need of an explanation. We know why the Irish were under-represented but where were all the Eastern Europeans? Don't they make up a far higher proportion of both the workforce and the unemployed in this country than non-Europeans?

If you read the article in the Irish Times from Monday you'll see that the conclusion drawn (at least judging by the title) is that the Irish were under-represented because they wouldn't take the jobs on offer. This is the standard anti-Irish line that you'll often see repeated on this site i.e. lazy Irish turning their noses up at good jobs that the good, hard-working foreigners are happy to take.

As an example, this is a quote from earlier in this thread by a poster with the username djpbarry:

For the last number of months I've been reading posts from Irish posters here on boards telling of all the jobs they were applying for that scarcely even yielded an interview. Where were all of ye last Wednesday?

I would say in reply: Where were all of the eastern Europeans last Wednesday?

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

We know why the Irish were under-represented...

We do?

SWL

O'Morris wrote: »

I noticed that as well from looking at the video on youtube.







.

As an example, this is a quote from earlier in this thread by a poster with the username djpbarry:

I would say in reply: Where were all of the eastern Europeans last Wednesday?

It is a fair point,

On a side note : they were all probably down the pub drinking their dole money, debating with the Irish, how terrible, lazy & racist the Irish have been to them, and how they made this country.