Harristown Garage - Illegal work stoppage

jahalpin

I have to use one of the buses from Harristown to get to work and bviously can't due to the illegal work stoppage that's going on there at the moment.

We moved offices 18 months ago and this is the second time that services from this garage have been suspended.

The older drivers at this garage are the rudest, dirtiest and most selfish staff in Dublin Bus.

What difference does if really make to a driver what route is drives? He is paid to drive a bus, why should it make a difference where it goes?

The unions agreed to the changes that were necessary to save the company. Due to the attitude of the older drivers, a lot of younger drivers are going to lose their jobs.

It's time that Dublin Bus management stood up to the staff who don't want to work and they should the driver that refused to work

SoupyNorman

I just cant understand why people who rely on the bus can't just use a private car service, it is wholly more comfortable and sensible and safe.


Oh well, back to my Faberge eggs *nom nom nom

Berty

Dub Forum >>>>> That Way.

My bus service is fine btw. Two bus's a day into the city and we are not complaining.

jahalpin

Berty wrote: »

Dub Forum >>>>> That Way.

My bus service is fine btw. Two bus's a day into the city and we are not complaining.

You're joking aren't you? Over 33% of the population live in Dublin, a lot of people are affected by this

Clontarf Garage also seems to be effected by this

Rented Mule

This is the latest update on the Dublin Bus website:

The following routes will have No Service

4/4a Harristown to Blackrock/Stradbrook
13/13a Merrion Square to Harristown
17a Finglas to Kilbarrack
27 Talbot Street to Clare Hall
27b Eden Quay to Harristown via Beaumont Hospital
27x Clare Hall to UCD Belfield
29a Eden Quay to Newgrove Cross
31 Eden Quay to Howth Summit
31b Eden Quay to Howth Summit
32a Eden Quay to Malahide
32/b Eden Quay to Portmarnock
32x Malahide to UCD Belfield
33b Portrane/Donabate to Swords
40a/b/c/d Finglas to City Centre
42 Lower Abbey Street to Sands Hotel (Portmarnock) / Coast Road (Malahide)
42a/b Lower Abbey Street to Blunden Drive / Beaumont Hospital (42a)
43 Lower Abbey Street to Swords Business Park
53 Eden Quay to East Wall Road
53a Eden Quay to North Wall (Alexandra Road)
83 Harristown to Kimmage
102 Sutton Station to Airport via Swords
103 Clontarf Dart Station to OMNI Shopping Centre
104 Clontarf Dart Station to Cappagh Hospital
128 Clongriffin to Rathmines (Palmerston Park)
130 Lower Abbey Street to Castle Avenue
140 Finglas to Leeson Street
237 Blanchardstown to Castleknock
238 Blanchardstown to Tyrellstown
270 Blanchardstown Shopping Centre to Dunboyne

The following routes will have a Curtailed Service

37 Hawkins Street to Carpenterstown
37x Carpenterstown to UCD Belfield
38/a Hawkins Street to Damastown
38b/c Hawkins Street to Tyrrelstown
39 Hawkins Street to Ongar
39x Ongar to UCD Belfield
41 Lower Abbey Street to Swords Manor
41x Swords to UCD Belfield
70/a Hawkins Street to Dunboyne

This page was last updated at 07:30hrs.

SoupyNorman

jahalpin wrote: »

You're joking aren't you? Over 33% of the population live in Dublin, a lot of people are affected by this

Clontarf Garage also seems to be effected by this

Its 33 and a THURDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD %


Berty doesn't joke, Munster men dont 'joke'....

Rented Mule

With the number of muntil-nationals just looking for a reason to pull up and head East, this is another good reason for their cause.

It'll be 48% tax and 8% PRSI for everyone again .....just like the good old days.

skywalker

Pathetic is the word for this. I cant believe that they pull stunts like this when their trying to save jobs in the company. Holding the public to ransom without any notice on a Monday morning isnt going to get them any sympathy either.

connundrum

1 Driver = 1,000's of people's journeys fcuked up.

If I was a driver who's already agreed to the new work practices, why would I have an issue with crossing 'the picket line' when a collegue decides that he has an issue with the same new work practices?

Makee no sensee.

Run_to_da_hills

The Government couldn't get a better time to impliment their 200,000 bicycle commuter plan.

positron

If I had some say in the running of DublinBus, I would announce a Dublin Bus driver recruitment open day today - can you imagine the length of the queue?

I am all for people's right for peaceful protest, but this is taking it to the new low.

FlutterinBantam

This is the auld warhorses out there having the last lash of the sabres, and giving the dinosaurs a chance for a run out.

it will be all over later on.

the_syco

Rented Mule wrote: »

The following routes will have No Service
33b Portrane/Donabate to Swords

The following routes will have a Curtailed Service

41 Lower Abbey Street to Swords Manor
41x Swords to UCD Belfield

Thank f**k I'm not working in Swords any more. Wonder how this will effect the number of business in the business campus's there?

spank_inferno

privatise the company or let it be operated by veolia instead.
They already operate the Luas, I dont doubt they would mind operating dublin bus either.

Close down the existing DB and make redundant all staff currently employed within Dublin bus, staff and management.

These few thousand unemployed wont make much difference in a time when 5000 people are losing their jobs every week.

The city gets its bus service back & hundreds of moustached fat men wont have their terrible jobs to moan about anymore.
Its a win-win situation!

</sweeping generalisation>

zootroid

Anyone "striking" should be fired. They don't have the backing of the union, so it's not a strike. They're simply choosing when to work and when not to work when it suits them. If I chose to go on "unofficial strike" I wouldn't hold onto my job for very long.....

John Mason

FIRE THE LOT OF THEM

LAZY GOOD FOR NOTHING BASTARDS

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WILL TAKE THEIR JOBS

AND ALSO DO SOMTHING PAINFUL TO THOSE GARDAI WHO WERE PULLING PEOPLE OVER FOR DRIVING IN THE BUS LANES THIS MORNING
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Gummy Panda

Glad I'm off work today. Wouldve been a taxi in and a taxi home (if they still weren't working).

gandalf

Well its time to either fire those drivers who are obviously out of touch with the current situation or allow private competition on all routes.

Pandering to the few is no longer an option.

Milkey Bar Kid

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055548461

Run_to_da_hills

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

FIRE THE LOT OF THEM

They couldn't do that, double decker busses are extremly difficult to drive and it would be impossible for CIE to get anyone to replace them. :pac:

SEPT 23 1989

send in the army to crack a few skulls

Elessar

I bet it's the older drivers doing this who think they can do whatever the hell they like.

You are being paid to drive a bus. Your boss tells you to drive a different bus. Do it.

The union agreed to these measures, as did the majority of drivers. Tough titty if you dont like it.

Fire the non-workers. That's what would happen in any private company in the world.

Pyr0

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Glad I'm off work today. Wouldve been a taxi in and a taxi home (if they still weren't working).

Same here with me ! Really annoying, so much for not getting taxis into work anymore :rolleyes:

shltter

Elessar wrote: »

I bet it's the older drivers doing this who think they can do whatever the hell they like.

You are being paid to drive a bus. Your boss tells you to drive a different bus. Do it.

The union agreed to these measures, as did the majority of drivers. Tough titty if you dont like it.

Fire the non-workers. That's what would happen in any private company in the world.

There are agreed procedures for changing the bills the company promised to follow those procedures prior to the acceptance of the Labour Court recommendations then they decided not to follow them in the case of the 128 route.

If the company did what they promised prior to the vote there would be no dispute today.

Run_to_da_hills

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

send in the army to crack a few skulls

There will be a lot of skulls taking to shanks mare this week, :pac::pac:

murphaph

The highly restritive union agreements need getting rid of. The company should (like most others) be able to deploy staff as they see fit. My last job meant I could be deployed anywhere within 25 miles of head office. I know others who had nationwide contracts and European wide contracts which they had to honour.

Driving a bus whilst requiring some skill is just a job. The restrictive old agreements need burning. So long as you work the same hours in a week, and the company pays you your wage, you should be capable of deployment on any route based out of any garage.

Even bloody Germany doesn't have such inflexible restrictions.

shltter

murphaph wrote: »

The highly restritive union agreements need getting rid of. The company should (like most others) be able to deploy staff as they see fit. My last job meant I could be deployed anywhere within 25 miles of head office. I know others who had nationwide contracts and European wide contracts which they had to honour.

Driving a bus whilst requiring some skill is just a job. The restrictive old agreements need burning. So long as you work the same hours in a week, and the company pays you your wage, you should be capable of deployment on any route based out of any garage.

Even bloody Germany doesn't have such inflexible restrictions.

How do you know what German public transport union agreements are ??


It is an agreed procedure one which the company promised to follow on ALL new bills just before the ballot on the Labour Court recommendations that is it do what you promised no disruption.

jhegarty

They should put a full page ad in tomorrow's papers looking for drivers.

I bet we can have enough qualified drivers in the next Ryanair flight from Poland.

Rented Mule

jhegarty wrote: »

They should put a full page ad in tomorrow's papers looking for drivers.

I bet we can have enough qualified drivers in the next Ryanair flight from Poland.

Come on now ......we're talking about a highly skilled position here.

Surely, there must be someone (basically everyone) in a dole queue that can be rude to people and still manage to keep their bus in the bus lane ??

jhegarty

Rented Mule wrote: »

Come on now ......we're talking about a highly skilled position here.

Surely, there must be someone (basically everyone) in a dole queue that can be rude to people and still manage to keep their bus in the bus lane ??

Your right, Polish people usually look as if they are happy to be working. This could be an issue.

Could we teach them to snarl ?

dub_commuter

jhegarty wrote: »

They should put a full page ad in tomorrow's papers looking for drivers.

I bet we can have enough qualified drivers in the next Ryanair flight from Poland.

The irony of that is DB were recruiting **** loads of drivers last year, and a few months later they wanted to fire them :rolleyes:

murphaph

shltter wrote: »

How do you know what German public transport union agreements are ??

I can read. I know that new services are introduced without incident and without unofficial stoppages over petty complaints. I follow german public transportation forums too ya know. Drivers change over at flexible locations (I use the M41 regularly and drivers change at a number of points along the route). It seems to be done to keep things running smoothly rather than to keep drivers happy. The bus/train drivers also always state the next station (on the few remaining older units that don't have fully functioning automated annunciation systems) and ALWAYS say "board PLEASE" and "stand back PLEASE" and Germany isn't particularly noted for it's politeness. Of course I live in a city with high unemployment so anyone driving a bus for a living is glad of the state job. Dublin with its low unemployment is completely diff...oh wait, that's so 2005.

shltter wrote: »

It is an agreed procedure one which the company promised to follow on ALL new bills just before the ballot on the Labour Court recommendations that is it do what you promised no disruption.

That's what I'm saying. The company has got itself into knots by agreeing to all these silly T&Cs from the unions. They should all be torn up and those refusing to work in a much more flexible way should be let go.

murphaph

dub_commuter wrote: »

The irony of that is DB were recruiting **** loads of drivers last year, and a few months later they wanted to fire them :rolleyes:

The recession has had a more dramatic effect in Ireland than in many other countries. Lots of private firms that wee hiring last year are shedding jobs now.

Dyr

Rented Mule wrote: »

and still manage to keep their bus in the bus lane ??

Thats one more skill than some of the harristown drivers have

Rented Mule

Bambi wrote: »

Thats one more skill than some of the harristown drivers have

We have to start somehwere lol

Milkey Bar Kid

they should stop pissing about and get back to work .They have a job so If they dont like it they should quit as there is 400,000 people to replace them

Capt'n Midnight

Rented Mule wrote:

It'll be 48% tax and 8% PRSI for everyone again .....just like the good old days.

there were a lot of PAYE people in the 1970's who would have loved to have paid only 48%

thebman

W8nkers should be fired on the spot. Whole company should be privatised realistically as it is crap at just about everything it is supposed to do. Call that a generalisation if you like but it does not mean it is not true.

Some people may do their job right but overall it is a failure of a company and should be let fooking fail!

kravmaga

The one or two drivers that refused to initially drive yesterday and today should have their employment terminated. Also the fcuk wits who drove to Clontarf garage looking for more support should be sacked also.

Its embarrassing in the middle of a recession with the economy on its knees to have 1 or 2 fcuk wits bring bus services on Northside to a halt.

If they dont like the job then leave it, its simple.

Privatise the bloody thing.

kravmaga

Commuters hit by Dublin Bus strike
Monday, 27 April 2009 19:38
Dublin commuters are facing further disruption this evening due to unofficial industrial action at Dublin Bus.

Two depots at Clontarf and Harristown have been affected by the action which led to the cancellation of 29 routes this morning.

A number of drivers returned to work this afternoon. However, there are still no buses on 23 routes.

Services on a further 14 routes, mostly on the north side of the city, have been curtailed.

Gardaí have advised motorists that all bus lanes on affected routes will be open to all traffic from 4.30pm until 7pm.

Limited service: 4, 27, 29a, 31, 32/b, 37x, 38/a, 38b/c, 39, 39x, 41, 41x, 42/a/b, 103, 130, 237.

Cancelled routes: 4a, 13/13a, 17a, 27b, 27x, 31b, 32a, 32x, 33b, 40/a/b/c/d, 42, 42a, 43, 53/a, 83, 102, 104, 128, 140, 142, 238, 239, 270.

The dispute follows the suspension of one driver who refused to work a new schedule on the 128 route.

The new schedule forms part of agreed measures designed to cut costs by €31m.

AdvertisementAfter lengthy discussions, both unions and management accepted a labour court recommendation. This saved the jobs of the probationary drivers, allowed 80 senior drivers to take voluntary redundancy, and involved new work practices.

The recommendation said the new work practices should have been introduced by yesterday, but when a driver refused to operate the new rules yesterday he was suspended.

As a result, all services operating out of Harristown and Clontarf depots were suspended this morning and thousands of commuters had to make alternative travel arrangements.

It is understood that the company has offered to negotiate with the drivers as soon as they cease their unofficial action and commence working the new rosters - albeit under protest - in accordance with the labour court re commendation.

Meanwhile, a meeting with Dublin Bus management and shop stewards at the Harristown Depot in north Dublin has failed to resolve the unofficial strike.

A full list of affected services is available on DublinBus.ie and AARoadwatch.ie

zootroid

blueeyedboy wrote: »

The one or two drivers that refused to initially drive yesterday and today should have their employment terminated. Also the fcuk wits who drove to Clontarf garage looking for more support should be sacked also.

Its embarrassing in the middle of a recession with the economy on its knees to have 1 or 2 fcuk wits bring bus services on Northside to a halt.

If they dont like the job then leave it, its simple.

Privatise the bloody thing.

Privatisation will only work if there is competition in the industry. Otherwise you are substituting one monopoly for another. And unions generally only have real power when there's a lack of competition.

Having said that, I would be in favour of privatisation. I don't think any government of a developed country has any business running a bus company.

shltter

murphaph wrote: »

I can read. I know that new services are introduced without incident and without unofficial stoppages over petty complaints. I follow german public transportation forums too ya know. Drivers change over at flexible locations (I use the M41 regularly and drivers change at a number of points along the route). It seems to be done to keep things running smoothly rather than to keep drivers happy. The bus/train drivers also always state the next station (on the few remaining older units that don't have fully functioning automated annunciation systems) and ALWAYS say "board PLEASE" and "stand back PLEASE" and Germany isn't particularly noted for it's politeness. Of course I live in a city with high unemployment so anyone driving a bus for a living is glad of the state job. Dublin with its low unemployment is completely diff...oh wait, that's so 2005.


That's what I'm saying. The company has got itself into knots by agreeing to all these silly T&Cs from the unions. They should all be torn up and those refusing to work in a much more flexible way should be let go.

And the changes could have been introduced here without incident if the agreed procedure had been followed just as they were in every other garage across the city. There is nothing wrong with the procedures if they worked in all the other garages.
The problem is that there is a complete breakdown in relations between management and unions and there is a culture of one up man ship prevalent in that depot. That is on both sides.
If the company had stuck to the procedures and the bill had been through to the schedules tribunal then AFAIC there would not have been any support for any action in Harristown or Clontarf.

jahalpin

shltter wrote: »

And the changes could have been introduced here without incident if the agreed procedure had been followed just as they were in every other garage across the city. There is nothing wrong with the procedures if they worked in all the other garages.
The problem is that there is a complete breakdown in relations between management and unions and there is a culture of one up man ship prevalent in that depot. That is on both sides.
If the company had stuck to the procedures and the bill had been through to the schedules tribunal then AFAIC there would not have been any support for any action in Harristown or Clontarf.

After reading just how many things Dublin Bus has to go through as an employer to change even the smallest thing, I believe it is time to remove the outdated, restricive work practices in place within the company.

Dublin Bus own the buses and hold the licences to operate the route, it is up to them when the buses run (within the licence conditions), not the staff. The drivers are paid quite well to drive the buses on their behalf.

The last strike at Harristown was because the drivers didn't want to changeover in town, which would have been more convinient for the customers, but would rather drive buses Out of Service all the way out to Harristown so they can use the supposidely excellent facilites there (gym, subsidised canteen etc.). The drivers should be made to understand that they are employed to serve the public.

If the drivers believe that the rules are not being correctly applied in this caase, they should probably think about what things would be like if their employer applied every rule. For example, the older drivers would have to wear clean uniforms, they would be dismissed if found smoking on the bus and they would be instantly dismissed if they refused to work.

Dublin Bus are very flexible, for example, there was a case of a driver who was disqualified from driving due to being caught drinking and driving, instead of being fired for being unable to do the job that he was employed to do, they gave him a job in the depot and when the disqualification was over he refused to go back drivinng and the company allowed him to keep the other job. In the real world, the driver would have dismissed immediately and would not be entitled to compensation etc as the disqualification was entirely his fault due to him breaking the law.

As other posters have said, the driver that refused to work should be dismissed immediatley and the drivers that supported him should be punished. The driver should also be sued by the company for loss of earnings. The drivers that are refusing to work should be removed from the vacinity of the garage as it is private property and they are now trespassing.

Zoney

zootroid wrote: »

Privatisation will only work if there is competition in the industry. Otherwise you are substituting one monopoly for another. And unions generally only have real power when there's a lack of competition.

Having said that, I would be in favour of privatisation. I don't think any government of a developed country has any business running a bus company.

Half the reason our telecoms, energy and even some sectors of public transport (taxis) are so messed up is the focus on "allowing competition" rather than actually properly regulating what we have to provide a better service to the consumer.

Privatisation of DB etc. would simply be the government washing their hands of it all. A regulator for privately run public transport would just end up being like ComReg or any of the other regulators - i.e. focussing on companies rather than consumers.

shltter

jahalpin wrote: »

After reading just how many things Dublin Bus has to go through as an employer to change even the smallest thing, I believe it is time to remove the outdated, restricive work practices in place within the company.

Dublin Bus own the buses and hold the licences to operate the route, it is up to them when the buses run (within the licence conditions), not the staff. The drivers are paid quite well to drive the buses on their behalf.

The last strike at Harristown was because the drivers didn't want to changeover in town, which would have been more convinient for the customers, but would rather drive buses Out of Service all the way out to Harristown so they can use the supposidely excellent facilites there (gym, subsidised canteen etc.). The drivers should be made to understand that they are employed to serve the public.

If the drivers believe that the rules are not being correctly applied in this caase, they should probably think about what things would be like if their employer applied every rule. For example, the older drivers would have to wear clean uniforms, they would be dismissed if found smoking on the bus and they would be instantly dismissed if they refused to work.

Dublin Bus are very flexible, for example, there was a case of a driver who was disqualified from driving due to being caught drinking and driving, instead of being fired for being unable to do the job that he was employed to do, they gave him a job in the depot and when the disqualification was over he refused to go back drivinng and the company allowed him to keep the other job. In the real world, the driver would have dismissed immediately and would not be entitled to compensation etc as the disqualification was entirely his fault due to him breaking the law.

As other posters have said, the driver that refused to work should be dismissed immediatley and the drivers that supported him should be punished. The driver should also be sued by the company for loss of earnings. The drivers that are refusing to work should be removed from the vacinity of the garage as it is private property and they are now trespassing.

Discussing shift changes with employees before implementing them is hardly restrictive that's all this is.

some of the crap they produce as schedules is unbelievable and a huge part of the problem is that the company do not actually have proper schedulers to design schedules.

For example rather than surveying a route looking for pinch points and high demand times looking at running times morning noon and night and weekends they take out a ticket bus and drive the route out of service usually around 11 in the morning or just after lunch often when kids are on mid term breaks.

From this one out of service journey they develop a bill with running times for peak and off peak. Add 10 minutes for peak take 15 off for the weekend that's it. Then they try and fit in duties to fulfill that bill and they end up with duties that do half a journey break for an hour and come back and drive for 5 and a half hours straight.
That kind of thing is dangerous in that a a driver starts work at 7:30 an hour later he is in the canteen on his lunch break not hungry because he only had his breakfast an 90 minutes ago so he eats nothing and then has 5 and a half hours driving ahead of him with no break. Thats why you need consultation the schedules man only cares that everything fits and is legal he could not give a **** about me and my breaks.

Red Alert

I would quite happily apply for a job driving a bus if someone decided they didn't want it because their boss might tell them to drive a different bus. I feel sorry for the (majority) drivers who want to go to work, earn a living and will end up getting flak from the public for the action of mavericks.

thebman

Zoney wrote: »

Half the reason our telecoms, energy and even some sectors of public transport (taxis) are so messed up is the focus on "allowing competition" rather than actually properly regulating what we have to provide a better service to the consumer.

Privatisation of DB etc. would simply be the government washing their hands of it all. A regulator for privately run public transport would just end up being like ComReg or any of the other regulators - i.e. focussing on companies rather than consumers.

Lol as opposed to the current situation of managers and staff only focusing on their own wage and how little work they can get away with by striking whenever it suits.

Anyone that believes Dublin Bus is serving the people lives in cloud cuckoo land. The passenger numbers aren't falling because of an excellent service. It is a failure of a company (both management and employee's make up the company) and it must be removed.

The reason telecoms is such a joke is you require an infrastructure to compete but that is not the case in transport, you just need a bus, the road network is already there. There are plenty of bus operators already in the country that could compete with Dublin Bus relatively quickly without any incentives as the price of a ticket only ever goes up as it is.

I used to get a Bus Eireann Bus From Maynooth back home and switched to a private operator after the Bus Eireann bus didn't turn up one day with no notification. Turned out it was full and they don't go through Maynooth when its full unless someone wants to get off so there was no way to know if it was coming or not.

Couldn't believe when I heard that. The private operator was 3 euro cheaper than the student ticket on Bus Eireann, a half hour quicker journey time and if it was full before it got to Maynooth they hired another operator to send a minibus to collect the remaining people so nobody was left behind and a local operator was hired so it was at most a 10 minutes late.

Red Alert

In fairness I have seen bus eireann augmenting the scheduled branded service with a contracted one run by a private operator in times of high demand.

dub_commuter

Red Alert wrote: »

In fairness I have seen bus eireann augmenting the scheduled branded service with a contracted one run by a private operator in times of high demand.

I have zero time for Bus Eireann. When their service cuts come in very soon you will find they are going to be far worse than whats happening in Dublin Bus.

thebman

Zoney wrote: »

Half the reason our telecoms, energy and even some sectors of public transport (taxis) are so messed up is the focus on "allowing competition" rather than actually properly regulating what we have to provide a better service to the consumer.

Privatisation of DB etc. would simply be the government washing their hands of it all. A regulator for privately run public transport would just end up being like ComReg or any of the other regulators - i.e. focussing on companies rather than consumers.

This is a great scare tactic, oh it will end up like eircom.

Split it up and sell it off. The reason comms is a disaster is because of the expensive cost of entry to the market. This does'nt exist in the transport industry. The roads are already there.

shltter

thebman wrote: »

This is a great scare tactic, oh it will end up like eircom.

Split it up and sell it off. The reason comms is a disaster is because of the expensive cost of entry to the market. This does'nt exist in the transport industry. The roads are already there.

Do you know how much a new Double decker bus costs.