Harristown Garage - Illegal work stoppage

thebman

shltter wrote: »

Do you know how much a new Double decker bus costs.

I know its less than a nationwide telephone network. You don't necessarily need a new double decker bus anyway.

Worse comes to worse you could buy one of the many buses Dublin Bus will no longer need in the near future :P

markpb

thebman wrote: »

This is a great scare tactic, oh it will end up like eircom.

Split it up and sell it off. The reason comms is a disaster is because of the expensive cost of entry to the market. This does'nt exist in the transport industry. The roads are already there.

The reason comms here are so crap is because the government sold off the retail and network together, introduced a spineless regulator and then had no way to insist on decent standards from Eircom or continuing investment from B&B. Why would any company in a monopoly position do anything other than the bare minimum unless they're forced to?

Lots of cities in the UK privatised their bus system poor and ended up with a rubbish service - routes being altered or dropped without notice, little or no off-peak service, unprofitable routes being abandoned. It has to be done properly or (believe it or not), it will get worse.

thebman

markpb wrote: »

The reason comms here are so crap is because the government sold off the retail and network together, introduced a spineless regulator and then had no way to insist on decent standards from Eircom or continuing investment from B&B. Why would any company in a monopoly position do anything other than the bare minimum unless they're forced to?

Lots of cities in the UK privatised their bus system poor and ended up with a rubbish service - routes being altered or dropped without notice, little or no off-peak service, unprofitable routes being abandoned. It has to be done properly or (believe it or not), it will get worse.

There are plenty of examples of it working right too. We could just copy one of those. Edinburgh's bus service is excellent and privatised.

Why assume we'd copy the worst model instead of the best. It doesn't make any sense to assume that.

markpb

thebman wrote: »

Why assume we'd copy the worst model instead of the best. It doesn't make any sense to assume that.

Show me an example of an existing well regulated industry in Ireland?

shltter

thebman wrote: »

I know its less than a nationwide telephone network. You don't necessarily need a new double decker bus anyway.

Worse comes to worse you could buy one of the many buses Dublin Bus will no longer need in the near future :P

Of course there is no need to replicate the telephone network the fact is that the network should never have been sold.

The problem with telecoms is that an operator is also in control of the network which would be akin to allowing DB to own the roads and control who can operate on them.

The truth is that setting up a decent public transport service even for one route is a costly undertaking and new buses cost in the region of €300,000 then there is insurance, premises fuel , staff etc not to mention the need for a license.


If you want to step backwards and have services in 15 year old second hand buses with no accessibility then I can't see how that will improve matters.

thebman

markpb wrote: »

Show me an example of an existing well regulated industry in Ireland?

lol as every regulator comes with its problems, you'll just point at the problems and call it a failure no matter what I state even if people can get the service at a reasonable price.

shltter

thebman wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of it working right too. We could just copy one of those. Edinburgh's bus service is excellent and privatised.

Why assume we'd copy the worst model instead of the best. It doesn't make any sense to assume that.

Because in this country the needs of the consumer are way behind the needs of the entrepreneur who sees how to make a quick buck in the eyes of our glorious leaders. Look at telecoms, gas , electricity and try and see how the consumers interests have been trampled on to ensure a return for investors.

thebman

shltter wrote: »

Of course there is no need to replicate the telephone network the fact is that the network should never have been sold.

The problem with telecoms is that an operator is also in control of the network which would be akin to allowing DB to own the roads and control who can operate on them.

The truth is that setting up a decent public transport service even for one route is a costly undertaking and new buses cost in the region of €300,000 then there is insurance, premises fuel , staff etc not to mention the need for a license.


If you want to step backwards and have services in 15 year old second hand buses with no accessibility then I can't see how that will improve matters.

Lol you don't need a double decker for a start. Why would you have to have a double decker to start out? There are plenty of wheelchair accessible buses that don't cost 300,000. The minibus I got to school when I was a kid had a wheelchair lift.

markpb

thebman wrote: »

lol as every regulator comes with its problems, you'll just point at the problems and call it a failure no matter what I state even if people can get the service at a reasonable price.

I've asked the question three times and every time you've ignored it so I can only assume you don't have an answer. You can't show me a strong regulator because we don't have a single one in Ireland. Every effort at regulating a private marked has failed miserably because our politicians are more interested in headlines than a sustainable market.

Don't forget we already have a mixed public/private transport service and it's crap. There is no integrated ticketing or timetables, competition and delays over route selection and court cases when it goes wrong in public.

But somehow you assume that because you're angry, we'll do it right this time? Best of luck with that.

Dodser

What's really interesting here is the way this post has moved on to privatisation. What this walkout has done has only served to get people talking about new, more effective, more economical ways of transporting people. Lets get some quality cycle lanes going. Let's support some private enterprise. Keep striking lads. You never know you might effect some change!

thebman

markpb wrote: »

I've asked the question three times and every time you've ignored it so I can only assume you don't have an answer. You can't show me a strong regulator because we don't have a single one in Ireland. Every effort at regulating a private marked has failed miserably because our politicians are more interested in headlines than a sustainable market.

Well you could point to taxi regulation where they are protesting to get less services for the people and the regulator is refusing saying supply/demand will decide. That is good for the people and bad for the taxi driver/entrepreneur. Taxi industry was a bigger joke before recent regulation changes. It still has problems but is much better now than it was.

Don't forget we already have a mixed public/private transport service and it's crap. There is no integrated ticketing or timetables, competition and delays over route selection and court cases when it goes wrong in public.

But most people say they are happy with the Luas which is privately run transport service, I was happy with my privately run bus service and I know nobody that is happy with Dublin Bus, Irish Rail or Bus Eireann.

A regulator regulating public bodies doesn't work because you just have public bodies arguing with each other with no incentives to fix problems or come to resolutions because it is taxpayers money they are burning and it doesn't matter if they make a loss this year.

But somehow you assume that because you're angry, we'll do it right this time? Best of luck with that.

Well considering I don't think the current government will even be in charge by the time the regulator would be setup then I don't see their failures as being relevant in many ways. We can learn from their mistakes and even they know they were crap and aren't working by now so I don't think they'd follow the same route again.

Also a public service such as Dublin Bus being privatised and then the service getting even worse would lose them a lot of votes and you have the green party in power who want it to run well so there are a lot of reasons why it could be different for this sector.

Dyr

Dodser wrote: »

What's really interesting here is the way this post has moved on to privatisation. What this walkout has done has only served to get people talking about new, more effective, more economical ways of transporting people. Lets get some quality cycle lanes going. Let's support some private enterprise. Keep striking lads. You never know you might effect some change!

They buried themselves last time they went on strike, and they buried themselves again this week. More customers lost to dublin bus for good.

One nail at a time, they're sealing their own coffin

Dodser

Just heard most of the garages have gone back. But Harristown haven't. Also heard reports of windows been broken with missiles when drivers who wern't striking try to take buses out of the garages. Who hired these loonballs in the first place???? These guys don't deserve jobs. They deserve a custodial sentence.

Dublin_Gunner

Dodser wrote: »

Just heard most of the garages have gone back. But Harristown haven't. Also heard reports of windows been broken with missiles when drivers who wern't striking try to take buses out of the garages. Who hired these loonballs in the first place???? These guys don't deserve jobs. They deserve a custodial sentence.

I think you're a few hours behind the news m8

The strike has finished, with restricted service on all routes from Harristown, and full service to resume tomorrow

Dodser

Ha! Maybe it was the custodial sentance thing that made them go back.

Victor

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Service-Disruption1/

Services Resumed
Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Dublin Bus is pleased to advise customers that services have resumed from Harristown depot.

While drivers have returned to work, a reduced service will be operating this evening on the services listed below and a full service is expected to resume tomorrow morning. All other Dublin Bus services are operating normally. Further updates will be made available on this site as services resume.

Dublin Bus wishes to apologise to customers for disruption to services during this unofficial action.

4/4a Harristown to Blackrock/Stradbrook
13/13a Merrion Square to Harristown
17a Finglas to Kilbarrack
27b Eden Quay to Harristown via Beaumont Hospital
27x Clare Hall to UCD Belfield
33b Portrane/Donabate to Swords
37 Hawkins Street to Carpenterstown
37x Carpenterstown to UCD Belfield
38/a Hawkins Street to Damastown
38b/c Hawkins Street to Tyrrelstown
39 Hawkins Street to Ongar
39x Ongar to UCD Belfield
40/a/b/c/d Finglas to City Centre
41 Lower Abbey Street to Swords Manor
41x Swords to UCD Belfield
43 Lower Abbey Street to Swords Business Park
70/a Hawkins Street to Dunboyne
83 Harristown to Kimmage
102 Sutton Station to Airport via Swords
128 Clongriffin to Rathmines (Palmerston Park)
140 Finglas to Leeson Street
142 Portmarnock to Rathmines (Palmerston Park)
237 Blanchardstown to Castleknock
238 Blanchardstown to Tyrellstown
239 Blanchardstown Shopping Centre to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre
270 Blanchardstown Shopping Centre to Dunboyne

Dodser

<Dublin Bus wishes to apologise to customers for disruption to services during this unofficial action.>

Why do Dublin Bus apologise? They didn't do anything wrong. These millitants walk away scot free and the management take the blame.

jaybird

Dodser wrote: »

<Dublin Bus wishes to apologise to customers for disruption to services during this unofficial action.>

Why do Dublin Bus apologise? They didn't do anything wrong. These millitants walk away scot free and the management take the blame.

They take the blame because it was their fault and they know it. You'd know it too if you knew absolutely anything about what actually happened, but if you prefer to trust the herald instead.......:rolleyes:

mongoose1

:)

spank_inferno wrote: »

privatise the company or let it be operated by veolia instead.
They already operate the Luas, I dont doubt they would mind operating dublin bus either.

Close down the existing DB and make redundant all staff currently employed within Dublin bus, staff and management.

These few thousand unemployed wont make much difference in a time when 5000 people are losing their jobs every week.

The city gets its bus service back & hundreds of moustached fat men wont have their terrible jobs to moan about anymore.
Its a win-win situation!

</sweeping generalisation>

Carawaystick

markpb wrote: »

Show me an example of an existing well regulated industry in Ireland?

an Bord Gais

shltter

Dodser wrote: »

Just heard most of the garages have gone back. But Harristown haven't. Also heard reports of windows been broken with missiles when drivers who wern't striking try to take buses out of the garages. Who hired these loonballs in the first place???? These guys don't deserve jobs. They deserve a custodial sentence.

There were no windows broken or stones thrown but the Dublin Bus PR department did their job throw enough **** some will stick even if it is completely untrue.

AlekSmart

Well done theBman.

There are plenty of examples of it working right too. We could just copy one of those. Edinburgh's bus service is excellent and privatised.

You are spot on in making the comparison with Lothian Buses in Edinburgh.
Not for nothing has this operator racked up a shelf full of "Best UK Bus Operator" awards over the past number of years.

Take a look at their website,www.lothianbuses.com or better still take a day-trip to the City and use what is a very well run,affordable,comprehensive Bus Service.......only thing is you`ll just have to edit one teeny weeny bit of your otherwise excellent post....

Lothian Buses is owned by Lothian Regional Transport which is fully in Local Council Ownership and therefore is a PUBLICLY owned operation,something which causes great upset to those seeking to equate quality and efficiency with Privatization......It ain`t always so Joe

markpb

Carawaystick wrote: »

an Bord Gais

BGE is hardly an industry, now is it?

Carawaystick

BGÉ have the sole gas transmission license, BGÉ and it's subsidiary Gaslink have the only gas transmission licenses in the country.
I'd say this makes them the gas supply industry here.

More importantly I've never experienced any interruption in gas supply, unlike bus/train/plane/taxi supply.

_blank_

Some of the Harristown Drivers are still on strike.

My bus never turned up this morning.

Dodser

<They take the blame because it was their fault and they know it. You'd know it too if you knew absolutely anything about what actually happened, but if you prefer to trust the herald instead.......>

The Herald, The Irish Times, RTE, even Boards.ie:eek: