Selling stuff on forums

Gavin

So there's some confusion on the cycling forum about what's allowed. Is it against the rules to sell items on the various forums, without using adverts.ie ? I was under the impression that there is discretion by the moderators, this is how I've done in in the Nets/Comms forum when equipment pops up. It also seems to be the case in a number of other forums.

The scenario is that the cycling forum, like lots of other forums, have built up a community/group of people who all know each other. They go for cycles with each other, drinks etc.

Fairly regularly, someone wants to sell good quality bikes/components. Obviously someone on the forum is the best target, so it's posted up and if no one's interested, drops off the page, or there might be some vigorous discussion about the pricing.

The rules adverts.ie use are targeted at strangers dealing with each other and are restrictive in this scenario. For example, if I'm selling something and someone I know and someone I don't know want to buy it, obviously I'm going to prefer to stick with my mate for less hassle. This isn't easily done on adverts, but is on the local forum.

Dades

The classic car forum also allows a bit of buying & selling - to it's credit, I think.

Makes sense when it's only enthusiasts who go there.

AckwelFoley

Would that mean then by default one could buy children in the Parenting forum?


..my point being, that from my short enough expierence here and on other forums the sale of goods and services and the advertisment of same is not allowed, however if a moderator(s) of that particular forum unofficially condone it.. so be it.

I think boards dont want spammers essentially, but if you are a well known member and happen to have a spare bike...

Ponster

Have you seen this thread ?


Gavin isn't this more of a thread for mods lounge rather than feedback ?

Gavin

It's a sitewide issue that the members of the cycling forum are interested in and want to have their say. I'm not posting as a Moderator, I'm posting as an active member of the Cycling forum.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Ponster wrote: »

Gavin isn't this more of a thread for mods lounge rather than feedback ?

What happened to the "mods are normal users outside the forums they mod" line ?

Ponster

Alan Rouge wrote: »

What happened to the "mods are normal users outside the forums they mod" line ?

Nothing, but the answer (i think) to the question is given in the link I provided where the matter was discussed 2 weeks ago in relation to the cycling forum and other such forums where adverts.ie isn't always the best answer.

If there is confusion regarding the cycling forum then a quick PM to uberwolf would probably be the fastest way to get a definitive answer.

Nevyn

I'm confused.
Adverts.ie grew out of the forsale forum here on boards, it was never strangers selling to each other, it was boardsies selling to each other and I don't see how that has changed
esp as the same profile for poster is in place on adverts and on boards.

So why are people looking to ignore adverts and revert to for sale threads on boards again?

Seriously I would like to know the reasons, cos I can't personally fathom them.
I have used adverts only twice and the only thing that bugged me was the fact I can't have the hollow'een skin on it.

Random

Thaedydal wrote: »

I'm confused.
Adverts.ie grew out of the forsale forum here on boards, it was never strangers selling to each other, it was boardsies selling to each other and I don't see how that has changed
esp as the same profile for poster is in place on adverts and on boards.

So why are people looking to ignore adverts and revert to for sale threads on boards again?

Seriously I would like to know the reasons, cos I can't personally fathom them.
I have used adverts only twice and the only thing that bugged me was the fact I can't have the hollow'een skin on it.

There is less of a community feeling on Adverts than there is within forums, IMO.

AckwelFoley

Thaedydal wrote: »

I'm confused.
Adverts.ie grew out of the forsale forum here on boards, it was never strangers selling to each other, it was boardsies selling to each other and I don't see how that has changed
esp as the same profile for poster is in place on adverts and on boards.

So why are people looking to ignore adverts and revert to for sale threads on boards again?

Seriously I would like to know the reasons, cos I can't personally fathom them.
I have used adverts only twice and the only thing that bugged me was the fact I can't have the hollow'een skin on it.

I think the OP touched on a suggestion for this in the opening post

Fairly regularly, someone wants to sell good quality bikes/components. Obviously someone on the forum is the best target,

I think the better thing for a member that posts in that forum ofter should use adverts.ie and put a link in their sig thereby having the exposure to the target audience yet complying with the rules

Nevyn

Random wrote: »

There is less of a community feeling on Adverts than there is within forums, IMO.

I don't think of adverts as a community I think of it as a tool for the different communities to use. We have had people put items up on adverts and then stick a link in the parenting forum ( no babies for sale or rent a womb yet synper), and I have seen posters do the same in other forums I frequent.

I recently followed a link to some games which were for sale on adverts the link was in a thread in the rpg forum and tbh I think that the offers and banter would have been off topic in the rpg forum which is why we have adverts as a tool for different communities to use.

Fajitas!

Thaed, I think it's moreso the feedback and moderation tasks that annoy people on Adverts than the day to day posting and buying, there's lots of little hindrances.

Fwiw, I think feedback is the correct place to have this over the moderator forum (Lounge? Wtf?) as it's genuine feedback on the site, rather than a moderator specific question.

Now, to the topic. Adverts has some very strict, but essential rules, if everyone plays ball, well and good, if some people play ball with their mates, and not with others, it brings in another wealth of problems, hence strict rules. Having these on a forum... well, it's going to get messy - anything involving money does... Some reasons adverts is so seperate is to avoid this.

It does retain a lot of elements of the community by retaining the same names & post count, so you do know who's who if you're dealing with them in a forum.

I think if someone wants to sell something to their friends from the forum, they'll know well to send around an email/pm with what's for sale (No, it dosn't count as advertising, they're friends ) - I know it's happened on the photography forum more than once. If they want to sell it to everyone and anyone, use Adverts.ie and follow the rules.

Gavin

Adverts is essentially something separate from boards.ie at this stage. People with no interest in boards come on to buy and sell. It has built up a set of rules for governing transactions to try and protect people. This works well when dealing with people one doesn't know. (I buy every now and then from adverts, there is no 'community' there, I don't have a clue who I am buying off for the most part)

The solution in the Cycling forum was to post a link to the adverts item. This means that the sale is then governed by the adverts rules, which don't work well when people know each other. The off-thread dealing rule is the biggest problem. It makes sense with strangers, not with people who know each other, people who will have a chat when on a cycle about what's for sale, what's the best price etc. It doesn't take into account the community element which is of course the best thing about boards.ie and the various forums.

As a potential future issue, lets say that people have their stuff for sale on buyandsell, or ebay and want to let mates in the Cycling forum know about it. Are they then forced to place an add on adverts.ie as well?

Gavin

Fajitas! wrote: »

I think if someone wants to sell something to their friends from the forum, they'll know well to send around an email/pm with what's for sale (No, it dosn't count as advertising, they're friends ) - I know it's happened on the photography forum more than once.

The problem with this is that it becomes somewhat unwieldy. There are a lot of regulars on the Cycling forum. It has been working perfectly well up to now, no issues with money or anything along these lines.

I'm trying to find out if it's a hard and fast rule that trading on boards.ie must be done on adverts.ie

Nevyn

Fajitas! wrote: »

Thaed, I think it's moreso the feedback and moderation tasks that annoy people on Adverts than the day to day posting and buying, there's lots of little hindrances.

Ok but what are those hindrances?
Personally I haven't found any but I will say that I have never sold anything
and have only bought two things so it seems I am missing something that others are running into, and that is pretty much what has me asking questions.

What are the hindrances?

Nevyn

Gavin wrote: »

I'm trying to find out if it's a hard and fast rule that trading on boards.ie must be done on adverts.ie

As far as I am aware it is, and adverts (the same as it's previous incarnation as the for sale forum ) has sets of rules and conduct to make things as fair as possible.

Gavin

Gavin wrote: »

For example, if I'm selling something and someone I know and someone I don't know want to buy it, obviously I'm going to prefer to stick with my mate for less hassle. This isn't easily done on adverts, but is on the local forum.

Gavin wrote: »

The off-thread dealing rule is the biggest problem. It makes sense with strangers, not with people who know each other, people who will have a chat when on a cycle about what's for sale, what's the best price etc. It doesn't take into account the community element which is of course the best thing about boards.ie and the various forums.

Thaedydal wrote: »

What are the hindrances?

As above. The loss of flexibility in choosing who you can sell to.

Nevyn

So what your saying is the rules on adverts.ie don't take inconsideration "Mates Rates" or that someone may want to sell to a mate rather then someone else who got in with the same or a slightly higher offer ?

Steve

Thaedydal wrote: »

Seriously I would like to know the reasons, cos I can't personally fathom them.

There's some background to how this issue came about here.

Gavin wrote: »

Adverts is essentially something separate from boards.ie at this stage. People with no interest in boards come on to buy and sell. It has built up a set of rules for governing transactions to try and protect people. This works well when dealing with people one doesn't know. (I buy every now and then from adverts, there is no 'community' there, I don't have a clue who I am buying off for the most part)

I agree - most of the users there aren't boardsies, most of the stuff I've to deal with on a daily basis are '09 regs with no boards posts.

The solution in the Cycling forum was to post a link to the adverts item. This means that the sale is then governed by the adverts rules, which don't work well when people know each other. The off-thread dealing rule is the biggest problem. It makes sense with strangers, not with people who know each other, people who will have a chat when on a cycle about what's for sale, what's the best price etc. It doesn't take into account the community element which is of course the best thing about boards.ie and the various forums.

I also agree - a decision needs to be made (and will be soon by all accounts) about the future direction of the subsite and how it's run.

As a potential future issue, lets say that people have their stuff for sale on buyandsell, or ebay and want to let mates in the Cycling forum know about it. Are they then forced to place an add on adverts.ie as well?

Just a suggestion Gavin, and I don't know if the admins would allow it but how about asking for a private hosted forum to trade your stuff with the members of your cycling community. Same goes for other sporting forums.
Another possibility would be to mimic other ad sites and create a section where you post an ad only (no discussion) where you could deal with the tyre kickers and scammers yourself but that's really stuff for the thread I linked to above and I don't want to divert the topic of this one.

Steve

Gavin wrote: »

I'm trying to find out if it's a hard and fast rule that trading on boards.ie must be done on adverts.ie

It's not. You can trade where you like. You just can't advertise it on a public thread.
It's the same on adverts.ie - nobody will stop you advertising elsewhere, just don't link to it.

I know that didn't really answer your question, it's something we need a call from the admins on.

Lumen

OK, I've thought about this some more.

Adverts.ie has some odd rules (like no off-thread dealing, no viewing before offer etc). I don't agree with them, and would rather treat people like adults and let them get on with it, but it's not my site. Also, adverts is not a community. You don't browse stuff there and chat about it unless you're buying. That's OK though, just like an ordinary adverts site with a comments facility.

Boards works differently. There are the hard rules, enforced by mods, and the soft rules/social norms, governed by the community.

If I'm selling something crap (e.g. dirty hack bike), I would probably put it on adverts and perhaps only mention it in passing on boards if someone on the cycling forum mentioned they wanted a hack bike. For something tasty, I'd tend to start a new thread about it.

I don't know why we can't just choose where to advertise stuff. If people start posting crap in the cycling forum, they'll get ignored or asked by others to put it on adverts and delete the thread.

Biut what's the problem if someone chooses just to advertise on a boards thread if they don't want the hassle of dealing with strangers, and can cope with the "I found in new on the internet for 50 euros less" pisstaking?

There are obviously grey areas. Some cycling forum regulars (I may or may not be guilty) will mention the same bike for sale in a few threads, and it probably raises a wry smile. But I really don't think it's much of a problem.

Ramble over.

Gavin

Thaedydal wrote: »

So what your saying is the rules on adverts.ie don't take inconsideration "Mates Rates" or that someone may want to sell to a mate rather then someone else who got in with the same or a slightly higher offer ?

Aye that's the gist of it alright. There are other benefits of not having to put up with inanity from tyre kickers as Steve calls them

NeilMcEoigheann

1: items that are sold need to be removed from adverts immediately it clutters the site and renders the sort by tool useless,
2: a cycling specific category needs to be set up because when I am looking for one of the many cycling for sale items i don't want to sort through dumbells surfboards and table tennis tables.
3: perhaps a permanent link as a sticky on the top of the boards cycling forum so that you can post your ad in adverts form on the boards sticky if you want but would not let you discuss on boards you would have to follow the link to haggle.

the boards cycling forum is one of the most socially active groups and boards.ie receives FREE advertising from us in the form of our cycling kit.
surely this counts for something....

RoundyMooney

There is or was discussion of this on what is (but not for much longer) the Advert Support forum.

It is my considered opinion, that despite the presence of some motivated and switched on people within the amod ranks (one of whom has already posted here), there are severe dysfunctions within the site.

I have no doubt that someone will be along in a minute to tell us that things are happening. Sorry guys, I've been stuck in adverts in one form or another for over two years and it's been unresponsive to change and stuck in a rut for that whole period and before it. And nothing has been done from a user perspective bar the creation of further hops for people with complaints to jump through, by the creation of a helpdesk forum where mods only can post, in one fell swoop closing down dissension and criticism of the decisions made thereof, bar by the users directly effected.

IMO, the push seems to be to add to the rules rather than condense them, which for the cyclists (of which I am a seasoned lurker-as on most parts of the site these days), and many other users who either remain silent to apathy or bugger off never to return is undoubtedly frustrating, counter productive, and a waste of everybody's time.

The good people of the cycling forum seem to have been pushed in the direction of adverts, despite it patently not catering for their needs. This is not the fault of the forum mods, or the fault of the amods (at least not directly, in the case of whoever is running the show). Perhaps they, like one or two mods here, have not taken enough of a look at adverts to see how bad its actually gotten. Boards is a big enough site and such a state of play is quite understandable. I would urge anyone with the time or inclination to have a look for themselves, and draw their own conclusions.

The forum members who wish to trade should be given either a dedicated thread or forum IMO. Perhaps in time, they may find adverts a little less restrictive and nannying, and more suitable to their needs.

Gavin

NeilMcEoigheann wrote: »

the boards cycling forum is one of the most socially active groups and boards.ie receives FREE advertising from us in the form of our cycling kit.
surely this counts for something....

Well, just as an aside, boards.ie generously covered the cost of the kit design.

Back on topic, I really don't have an issue with adverts in its own right, rather how the adverts rules affect 'community' sales. (for want of a better definition)

NeilMcEoigheann

Gavin wrote: »

Well, just as an aside, boards.ie generously covered the cost of the kit design.

Back on topic, I really don't have an issue with adverts in its own right, rather how the adverts rules affect 'community' sales. (for want of a better definition)

oh so thats how they subsidised the jerseys, ok but still i think point 3 is a good idea.

Raam

NeilMcEoigheann wrote: »

the boards cycling forum is one of the most socially active groups and boards.ie receives FREE advertising from us in the form of our cycling kit.
surely this counts for something....

I have been stopped at least once and been asked what this boardsie thing is all about while out cycling OK, well only once, but I like to think that he then went and joined.

Anyway, I did like the old way that we had things... post your item and throw your ad to the wolves. On the flip side, we have to be careful what we ask for here as we might get it. In other words, the cycling forum could become cluttered with people selling all sorts of knick-knacks loosely related to bikes, giving Uberwolf, RuggieBear and Damobrew a whole lot more modding to do.

Gavin

Raam wrote: »

Anyway, I did like the old way that we had things... post your item and throw your ad to the wolves. On the flip side, we have to be careful what we ask for here as we might get it. In other words, the cycling forum could become cluttered with people selling all sorts of knick-knacks loosely related to bikes, giving Uberwolf, RuggieBear and Damobrew a whole lot more modding to do.

Aye, in that case a private subforum may not be a bad idea at all. Anyone who wants to join it can, but the extra bit of effort will probably scare off timewasters. A sticky at the top of the cycling forum saying what the deal is. (As people generally don't really read the stickies, it will only be regulars that are aware of it.)

Shouldn't require much in the way of moderating. I'd be happy to help out with it if needed/wanted as would most on the forum I suspect.

Fajitas!

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ok but what are those hindrances?
Personally I haven't found any but I will say that I have never sold anything
and have only bought two things so it seems I am missing something that others are running into, and that is pretty much what has me asking questions.

What are the hindrances?

There are a few - Not being able to edit posts, not being able to delete a single piece of muppet-feedback, instead having to delete the lot of it, which may be positive. IP addresses availible to Amods to see if someone is pushing the price of their own sale. It's problems that are probably more common to the everyday user or moderator rather than people who use it once in a blue moon (Not saying that in a condescending way, but it's just 'the way it is'). Fwiw, I do think Adverts is a great service, and usually scroll through at least once a day before anyone puts me in the 'rabble rabble rabble' camp.

penexpers

Fajitas! wrote: »

There are a few - Not being able to edit posts, not being able to delete a single piece of muppet-feedback, instead having to delete the lot of it, which may be positive. IP addresses availible to Amods to see if someone is pushing the price of their own sale. It's problems that are probably more common to the everyday user or moderator rather than people who use it once in a blue moon (Not saying that in a condescending way, but it's just 'the way it is'). Fwiw, I do think Adverts is a great service, and usually scroll through at least once a day before anyone puts me in the 'rabble rabble rabble' camp.

Adverts might be a great service for average run of the mill stuff but for specialised stuff like high-end bikes and components it's pretty crap. This is mainly due to the presence of "tire kickers" (example : there was a bike posted for 1500 euro, which was a really good price for that bike, some moron follows up "I'll get you started with an offer of 100 euro"). Most people go "Bikes? Oh yeah, they're all worth 100 euro max" and leave it at that. It's different from say console games or dvds or any other amount of goods that are traded on adverts, where the majority of people have a good idea of an accurate price for these goods.

I used bikes here as an example, but the same could apply to other specialised goods.

Steve

Fajitas! wrote: »

IP addresses availible to Amods to see if someone is pushing the price of their own sale.

I beg to differ, they're not. We have no access to personal information on a poster.