Weightwatchers and Weight lifting - help me!!!

Kimia

So I'm a huge fan of WW and it has worked for me in the past.

I'm back on it now and am doing well. I've also joined a gym for the first time (about 2 months ago) and I'm loving that too.

BUT, I'm doing weightlifting to burn fat, so my trainer said don't bother weighing yourself as muscles weigh more than fat. Fair enough, but how then do I track how well I'm doing on WW!!!

I know I can point and keep track and all that, but I loved having the little boost of losing maybe a 1lb a week and it gave me motivation. So what do I do??

Davei141

Use your clothes/mirror/how you feel. All more accurate than a scales.

colly10

Personally I don't see the point, you'll be able to look at yourself and see your in better shape. If you need something to point to get a scales that calculated BF%, there not accurate but at least you'll be able to watch yourself moving in the right direction

Kimia

Yea I know that's what the trainer said, but I enjoy WW as it makes me feel very healthy and good.

Feeling it in myself is not enough. I don't know how to explain it but I need something that shows me how i'm doing rather than trying to poke my stomach to see if it wobbles any less!!

colly10

Kimia wrote: »

Yea I know that's what the trainer said, but I enjoy WW as it makes me feel very healthy and good.

Feeling it in myself is not enough. I don't know how to explain it but I need something that shows me how i'm doing rather than trying to poke my stomach to see if it wobbles any less!!

You will not need to use your eyes, as I said the scales will calculate body fat percentage and this can be used to display your progress. As for WW, you have a choice to make really, you will not add muscle in the gym while loosing weight in WW.
If your interested in how you look and how much body fat your carrying stick with working out in the gym and loosing that body fat. If your interested in WW and some figure which isn't really telling you alot about yourself or your gains then stick with that

Kimia

colly10 wrote: »

you will not add muscle in the gym while loosing weight in WW.

How do you mean? I won't put on any muscle even though I'm using weights three times a week, just because I'm also doing WW???

colly10

Kimia wrote: »

How do you mean? I won't put on any muscle even though I'm using weights three times a week, just because I'm also doing WW???

What I mean is that if your putting on muscle you'll also be gaining weight. To put on muscle properly you need to be eating more than maintanance calories, but to give you an example-
I took up boxing in May of last year, I do a bit of weights as well to mix up the training, in that time I have gained around 2 stone, my bodyfat percentage is no higher (around 10) but I have packed on weight.

Basically you cannot really be packing on muscle and loosing weight, it is the way to go though cause putting on muscle will burn the fat off you. When you step up on the WW scales though its going to be telling you something you don't want to hear

Khannie

Kimia wrote: »

How do you mean? I won't put on any muscle even though I'm using weights three times a week, just because I'm also doing WW???

Yup. Muscle gains generally require a calorie surplus (except for a very small minority of people AFAIK). Doing weights while losing weight can help you stop losing muscle as you lose fat though (i.e. it can help you get "toned" looking while on a calorie deficit).

rubadub

Overweight beginners are said to be able to put on muscle while on a calorie deficit. Also overweight people are naturally carrying more muscle, so say you had a twin sister with the same lifestyle but was thinner than you, then you are in effect lifting extra weight all day long, and so would have more muscle to do so. Now even if you put on no muscle, BUT maintained what you have then if you lost the fat you would still retain that extra muscle you needed while hauling around the extra weight.

I was around 12 stone for over a year and got thinner all the time. So I must have been building muscle and losing fat at the same SLOW rate. I probably would have been turfed out of WW! Bodybuilders will eat a lot in the "off season", so they build up muscle, then they diet a lot to lose fat for shows. This is called "bulking and cutting". There is a diet/training regime called the "Anacat protocol", I casually followed it for a good while, still do. Basically you are doing this bulking and cutting all the time, you eat lots on your training days and then ease off on other days. I find this quite easy to follow.

WW is sort of equating fat with weight, your weight is only one guide. Like Dave said, clothes are a great guide, get some old well washed jeans which are fully shrunk, these can act as tape measures all the way down you legs. It is hard to track slow progress, take some photos and measurements. You can keep track of inches rather than lbs. Muscle takes up 1/3 the volume of fat, so even at the same weight you can be a lot thinner, and muscle weight goes on in the right places.

Even if you put on no muscle you would at least maintain some, so it would slow your weight loss, but it will usually increase your FAT loss, and that is what most really want.

Say you lift 3 times a week, 60mins. Now say you burn 400kcal in those sessions. All during the week your body is trying to build new muscle, this means it uses calories!, even when sitting around the next day you are using calories to build muscle. AND you need more calories just to maintain this new muscle. You can sort of compare it to being pregnant, you need more caloires to "build" the new tissue- i.e. the baby. Then just to keep the foetus/muscles warm and alive it takes more calories. Also muscle needs more calories to maintain it than fat. So a muscular 15stone man lying in bed needs more calories than a 15stone fat man.

Now you could have just ran 3 times a week for 60mins, burning maybe 500kcal in the hour. BUT on your days off you do not reap all the advantages that lifting will bring, on the calorie side. Also being stronger will help in your daily life, for women it helps against osteoporosis and other things too.

As you get older you loose muscle if you are not active, your metabolism drops. If you are starting out at say 30, then you are just building up the muscle you once had in your teens

Kimia

Thanks Rubadub. I am finding it hard to understand because this is my first time ever doing this and as I said I'm used to WW.

I shouldn't weigh myself because I seem to keep weighing more even though I do feel better and look more toned. It's hard to get out of that mindset of 'O I lost a lb this week!', and so for me to see the weight going up is a bit discouraging if that makes any sense?

rubadub

It is tough to get your head around it at first. Everybody equates weight with fat, and losing weight as being essential to looking good.

One of the moderators here, g'em/Gillian, does weightlifting you can see here here about 1/3 the way in.

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/slideshows/weightlifting/

I expect by BMI standards she is deemed "overweight" in those pictures, I think at one stage she would have been deemed "obese".

I think esp. for women it is disheartening to be putting on "weight" as it is so in your mindset to lose it. You will see lads in the fitness forum delighted with weight gain. I have probably put on 7lb in the last year and still fit in the same jeans etc, the thing to remember is the added muscle needs more calories. If people end up overweight they are probably fond of their food. By increasing your metabolism you can get away with eating more without putting on fat. I save my cake eating etc until after weight training, when at least I know it is going to some good, developing new muscle. It only takes a bit to make a difference, you would not guess I lifted at all, but I can now eat and drink what I pretty much want, and I drink like an alcoholic fish! If I had just lost the fat and not gained muscle my metabolism would be much slower and I would have to be far more careful with my diet.

Here is a better chart than using weight
http://www.ashwell.uk.com/shapechart.pdf

and also hip to waist ratio is better
http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/whr

The olympic swimmer Michael Phelps eats all sorts of crap and 8000-10000kcal per day, And he is a whippet!

g'em

Kimia wrote: »

I shouldn't weigh myself because I seem to keep weighing more even though I do feel better and look more toned. It's hard to get out of that mindset of 'O I lost a lb this week!', and so for me to see the weight going up is a bit discouraging if that makes any sense?

Been there, had the mindset and oh my Lordy it can be a bitch to get rid of

It takes time, but keep gently trying to remind yourself that what WW and healthy eating is doing is giving you a healthier body, not just a slimmer one. The whole concept of "weight" can be very misleading depending on how you approach it - for example last week in the run up to the competition I lost 2.5kg (5.5lbs) over the course of 3 days so that I could enter the competition at the right weight class. It was a temporary loss and I'm back to my "normal" weight now - if I let that stress me out I'd be a very unhappy bunny all the time :pac:

Give the weightlifting time too - it can take a few months to adjust to and you may find your appetite goes up and down as you adapt to the new activity levels.

Do some experimenting and try and find some healthy snacks that you can indulge in guilt free after training that will re-fuel you and give you plenty of energy. Food is actually your friend for fat loss, you just need to eat the right foods.

And remember, the higher your lean mass, the more efficient your body will be at burning calories - the more work you do, the easier it gets to stay in shape!

rubadub wrote: »

One of the moderators here, g'em/Gillian, does weightlifting you can see here here about 1/3 the way in.

http://www.irishtimes.com/indepth/slideshows/weightlifting/

I expect by BMI standards she is deemed "overweight" in those pictures, I think at one stage she would have been deemed "obese".

Yup, I'm 'overweight' right now according to my BMI Just goes to show that you have to take activity (and general common sense) into account. I'm 'heavy' for my height, but I have reasonably low body fat so that puts me in good health stead.

rubadub wrote:

...and also hip to waist ratio is better
http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/whr

This would be one of my preferred tools for measuring body health - tummy fat is one of the biggest risk factors for obesity-related illnesses so this helps you monitor that. I have big hips and legs but my waist is small in comparison so proportionally I'm fine.

Kimia

Thanks Rubadub. I'm just about an Apple, and my waist-hip ratio is not good - .86. I have small hips and a big tum.

I am generally good enough with my diet (I'm bad at weekends though) but I'm starting to exercise WAY more so I'm hoping that this will improve.

I just cannot get my head around it though. I've been reading over loads of posts in both Fitness and Diet, and so much of it seems to conflict.

What confuses me is that people talk about 'building muscle' and eating more calories to build this muscle. Well I'm doing weights but I'm eating less calories (on WW) so where does that leave me?

Also, they say that Cardio is crap when you want to build muscle (which leads to a better metabolism - more muscle you have, more calories you burn etc), but then they also say that in order to lose fat (for example on your stomach) you have to do the cardio to lose overall fat so that you can show off your abs, which you have built with weights!!!

I'm so confused. Basically I want to be thinner and more toned. I'm eating better, less calories, more veg etc, and I'm doing about 75 mins of cardio and 45 mins of weights a week. Will this work? What about all those people saying that there's no point in doing weights if you're not eating calories
like this dude:

Originally Posted by colly10 View Post
you will not add muscle in the gym while loosing weight in WW.

Why not!! I'm doing weights, so surely thats a good thing!! Sorry for long post but you're really helping me out here.

g'em

Kimia wrote: »

Thanks Rubadub. I'm just about an Apple, and my waist-hip ratio is not good - .86. I have small hips and a big tum.

I am generally good enough with my diet (I'm bad at weekends though) but I'm starting to exercise WAY more so I'm hoping that this will improve.

Brilliant - but one word of warning (from someone who has been there!!) - don't let the "ah sure I'll just work it off in the gym tomorrow" mindset take over either. Fat loss is down to a combination of diet and exercise and as Transform says, you can't outtrain a bad diet :pac:

If you find you store fat easily on your tummy that would indicate that you need to cut down on sugars in your diet. That will certainly mean obvious sources like white sugar, white bread and sugary foods, but it means you'll need to be a little cleverer about finding out where "hidden" sugars are in your diet: cereals and pre-packaged foods are the main culprits.

High sugar foods lead to insulin resistance which leads to a propensity to store fat on the waistline (although genetics largely determines this too).

Kimia wrote:

I just cannot get my head around it though. I've been reading over loads of posts in both Fitness and Diet, and so much of it seems to conflict

Yup, it gets very confusing alright - keep reading, it gets easier to filter the stuff that applies as you learn more about how your body responds to different things.

Kimia wrote:

What confuses me is that people talk about 'building muscle' and eating more calories to build this muscle. Well I'm doing weights but I'm eating less calories (on WW) so where does that leave me?

As a gym "n00b" you'll have a period of grace where you'll be able to build muscle regardless of calorie intake: take advantage of this and enjoy it

But as a general rule building muscle requires an excess of calories - that is, once your body has used all your daily food cals for it's immediate needs (basig growth and repair, heat production etc.) then it can use what's left to carry out "advanced repair" i.e. muscle growth. So, if you're on a calorie deficit you probably won't build muscle.

BUT as a girl you don't (and can't) build a massive amount of muscle anyway. What you can do is improve the 'tone' of your muscle, build a limited amount of muscle and burn lots of calories in and out of the gym.

Kimia wrote:

I'm so confused. Basically I want to be thinner and more toned. I'm eating better, less calories, more veg etc, and I'm doing about 75 mins of cardio and 45 mins of weights a week. Will this work?

I don't think it's enough tbh. Aim for ~30 mins cardio per day (that doesn't have to be in the gym though, that can be walking or swimming, cycling or jogging or anything that raises your heartrate; hell, sex is a brilliant cardiovascular workout!!) and 2-3 eights sessions per week.

Kimia

Thanks a million Gem you're really helped me here. I am starting to understand - when guys talk about 'building' muscle they want to get bigger where as I don't. I just want to tone the muscle I have.

That's just what I do in the gym - I also do a class a week and try to be active most of the time (cleaning the house is a workout in itself!).

So I'll keep the way I'm going. I will also try to avoid weighing myself because this will just depress me. And I'll stay on the WW because it really makes me improve my eating habits.

Kimia

Also Gem forgot to post this above but funnily enough, even though I have an apple shape, I have absolutely no interest in sugary snacks. Don't eat chocolate (have no interest really) and don't drink any sugary drinks, just water. Don't drink tea or coffee ever - don't like them. I eat branflakes the very odd time, and I don't eat any white bread, only yeast free brown. My main downfall would be crisps & takeaways so I'd say this is the culprit. Not that I have them that much though - maybe once every 2 wks.

Just the way I was made I suppose!!

g'em

Kimia wrote: »

I am starting to understand - when guys talk about 'building' muscle they want to get bigger where as I don't. I just want to tone the muscle I have.

Yup, that's it exactly!

Kimia wrote:

That's just what I do in the gym - I also do a class a week and try to be active most of the time (cleaning the house is a workout in itself!).

Don't be afraid of going ehavy with the weights - all that 20-rep nonsense that some Fitness Instructors advocate is a load of rubbish. Heavy weights are your friend - and they won't make you bulky, it's a physical impossibility.

Kimia wrote:

So I'll keep the way I'm going. I will also try to avoid weighing myself because this will just depress me. And I'll stay on the WW because it really makes me improve my eating habits.

Excellent! Get a good measuring tape to help track progress and find some good "motivational weight loss clothes"! I have a pair of jeans that wil tell me better than any scales when I need to ease up on my Ben & Jerry indulgences

Kimia wrote: »

Also Gem forgot to post this above but funnily enough, even though I have an apple shape, I have absolutely no interest in sugary snacks. Don't eat chocolate (have no interest really) and don't drink any sugary drinks, just water. Don't drink tea or coffee ever - don't like them. I eat branflakes the very odd time, and I don't eat any white bread, only yeast free brown. My main downfall would be crisps & takeaways so I'd say this is the culprit. Not that I have them that much though - maybe once every 2 wks.

Just the way I was made I suppose!!

In that case it could largely be down to genetics alright in that you're predisposed to store fat there. Jams, yoghurts, ready-meals, even cheese (!) can be high in sugar so get into the habit of checking the label - ideally you want to choose foods that have <5g of sugars per 100g.

Kimia

Thanks Gem you're a star!

I have an app with my trainer tomorrow so am going to ask him to put me on bigger weights for less reps.

You've been a great help

rubadub

Kimia wrote: »

What confuses me is that people talk about 'building muscle' and eating more calories to build this muscle. Well I'm doing weights but I'm eating less calories (on WW) so where does that leave me?

You will build some as a beginner as g'em mentioned. But you will at least hold onto what you have. I have heard that when people are overweight up to 1/3 of that weight can be muscle (anybody correct that if wrong), definitely some extra muscle is needed to haul yourself around! So if you get thinner while maintaining that extra muscle it can give the appearance that new muscle is forming, while really it is just being revealed. It will keep your metabolism higher so certainly worth keeping, also gives the "toned" look most women want.

Kimia wrote: »

My main downfall would be crisps & takeaways so I'd say this is the culprit. Not that I have them that much though - maybe once every 2 wks.

Takeaways can have loads of calories/points. In the other thread I think the worst medium dominos pizza was 54points. Get small portions or save some for the next day.

Kimia wrote: »

I have an app with my trainer tomorrow so am going to ask him to put me on bigger weights for less reps.

Also use free weights, i.e. barbells & dumbbells that are not fixed in machines.

You will have to start reading packets too, the nutritional info on them, do not believe the ads or be taken in by what you presume to be good/bad. Most people think of branflakes as a healthy option. They are 22% sugar!!!!!
http://www.kelloggs.co.uk/products/branflakes/Cereal/bran_flakes.aspx#details
I would sooner have porridge oats and a mini mars bar!