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Gardai revenge assault posse to be charged with assault

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    #32
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    In my opinion 99% of people who jump up and down screaming that the gards are a shower of thick clueless culchies are the kind of underhanded scum that deserve a hard time from the gards.

    Really.
    Daroxtar wrote: »
    Now the gards who beat the chap are getting prosecuted, I'd like a little background on the chap who got the beating. I sincerely doubt he was a lay missionary working with blind crippled orphans.

    He wasn't. However rather than arresting him for his transgressions, a bunch of (seemingly inexperienced) cops called round and gave him a hiding in front of a witness. Had they just arrested him and given his arse a kick on the way to the squad car, they'd have been fine.
    Daroxtar wrote: »
    The usual "apologists" i see here are the kind of celtic jersey wearers that support the provo scum. Maybe the mighty RAAAAAAA would be better than the gards eh? There'd be no miscarraiges of justice then, not when they'd be calling to your house before trial date wearing balaclavas and armed with baseball bats..

    Far from it, from what I can see. Projecting your own personal fears and prejudices rather than reading whats posted is more than likely at the root of that idea.


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    #33
    Ziggurat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Ziggurat


    Nodin wrote: »
    Really.

    Oh, didn't you know? The Gardaí are free to exact vigilante justice on whomever they please. Only "underhanded scum" would ever dare question public servants.
    He wasn't. However rather than arresting him for his transgressions, a bunch of (seemingly inexperienced) cops called round and gave him a hiding in front of a witness. Had they just arrested him and given his arse a kick on the way to the squad car, they'd have been fine.
    Agreed. I find it worrying, not only that some members of the Gardaí think the law doesn't apply to them, but that some members of the public support them or at least excuse this kind of behavior.

    The law is there to protect the bad guys as much as to protect the rest of us, folks. The moment you start exempting certain people from its protection...well, it's a dark road to go down.
    Far from it, from what I can see. Projecting your own personal fears and prejudices rather than reading whats posted is more than likely at the root of that idea.
    I also find it ironic that Daroxtar has a problem with provos meting out this kind of vigilante justice but no problem (it would seem, at any rate) with the Gardaí doing it.

    Now, no one can deny the job of the Gardaí is not an easy one: it really is an awful, awful job. And of course it's unfair to tar them all with the same brush; the vast majority of Gardaí are a credit to the force but neither that nor the nature of their job excuses those who break the law.


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    #34
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    seanybiker wrote: »
    Great question. No nobody posting in this thread knows what really happened.

    Roughly....

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/nine-gardai-face-investigation-over-claim-of-serious-assault-1311598.html

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/commission-probes-colleagues-of-suspended-assault-gardai-1300335.html


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    #35
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Leaving the Gardai acting like Ejits scenario aside , aren't they ( Gardai) accountable for their actions like any other police force ? .


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    #36
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Of course they're not accountable. That's why no Guards were suspended on foot of this alleged incident, and no-one has been charged with assault.

    Law unto themselves, ACAB, predictable anti-"the man" rant, etc etc.


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    #37
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Therein Lies the Problem so .


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    #38
    otwb
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭otwb


    From the indo....

    "The mother of the alleged victim contacted a solicitor after the incident and then lodged a formal complaint with the Ombudsman Commission."

    1) talk to solicitor
    2) then complain to authorities

    ...sounds like they are looking for a payout here.

    Am not trying to defend the guards here, but it looks as if this was in retaliation to an off duty guard being roughed up. If some scumbag kicks the lard out of you for having a certain job and can't be done for it then there is understandably frustration out there.

    We need to come up with some sort of solution here which protects society rather than handing the advantage to the scumbags - I don't think that 9 uniformed Gardai acting outside the law is the way to go - I just can't see what the right answer is though.


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    #39
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Thing is not to get caught . Now that's Irony for ya .


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    #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    otwb wrote: »
    Am not trying to defend the guards here, but it looks as if this was in retaliation to an off duty guard being roughed up. If some scumbag kicks the lard out of you for having a certain job and can't be done for it then there is understandably frustration out there.

    Who said he couldn't be done for it?


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    #41
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Originally Posted by otwb
    Am not trying to defend the guards here, but it looks as if this was in retaliation to an off duty guard being roughed up. If some scumbag kicks the lard out of you for having a certain job and can't be done for it then there is understandably frustration out there.
    The same frustration is felt by us all , by the ordinary citizen , when somebody up in court gets away with or off lightly with something they shouldn't have .


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    #42
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    otwb wrote: »
    From the indo....

    "The mother of the alleged victim contacted a solicitor after the incident and then lodged a formal complaint with the Ombudsman Commission."

    1) talk to solicitor
    2) then complain to authorities

    ...sounds like they are looking for a payout here.

    If I was assaulted by a guard I would 1) talk to my solicitor
    2) then complain to the authorities


    What would you do!!


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    #43
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    bazjnr wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, i agree with you, we'll have to wait and see.

    Concrete example:
    Remember Garda Seamus Doherty who accepted a £500 bribe to shred a drink driving summons afew years back? He got a six-month jail sentence in the Court of Criminal Appeal after the DPP appealed the undue leniency of the original suspended sentence and fine imposed on by Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.

    Other Guards doing jailtime:
    Austin Woods jailed in July 2001 for harassment, got 3 year sentence reduced to 9 months on appeal.



    That's just off the top of my head

    Thanks.They are exactly the kind of cases that I meant


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    #44
    jonsnow
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Of course they're not accountable. That's why no Guards were suspended on foot of this alleged incident, and no-one has been charged with assault.

    Law unto themselves, ACAB, predictable anti-"the man" rant, etc etc.

    I think the Gardai Siochana have a long history of being unaccountable to the law themselves.This is basically because like any other police force without any civilian oversight they could get away with corrupt behaviour.

    A rabble-rousing anti-establishment figure such as Justice Frederick Morris has stated that his " Tribunal has been staggered by the amount of indiscipline and insubordination it has found in the Garda force. There is a small but disproportionately influential core of mischief-making members who will not obey orders, who will not follow procedures, who will not tell the truth and who have no respect for their officers."

    Ex-Circuit Court judge Antonhy Murphy also felt that the gardai where certainly a law unto themselves where the small matter of perjury was so widespread that he had a simple rule about it, he said. “If there was a confession and nothing else, the man (accused) walked.” It was precisely because the Gardai could no longer be trusted to "police" themselves that civilian oversight had to be imposed.

    This is one of the first cases to come in front of the courts under the new system and civilians are obviously going to be interested in how it goes.Not everyone who voices concerns about An Garda Siochanas policing culture is some sort of anarchist anti-"the man" ranter.We have legitimate concerns.


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    #45
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    doing an absolutely thankless job which entails dealing with the lowest form of human filth you'll ever have the displeasure to come across.

    The gardai have a sh!te job, no one else would do it

    Our job is not totally thankless and imo certainly not a sh!!te job either. If it was a crap job then me nor 15000 others wouldnt do it.

    For me it is a very rewarding job helping people when they need and dealing with the criminals when they need locking up.
    Quinine wrote: »
    Oh, didn't you know? The Gardaí are free to exact vigilante justice on whomever they please. Only "underhanded scum" would ever dare question public servants.

    Agreed. I find it worrying, not only that some members of the Gardaí think the law doesn't apply to them, but that some members of the public support them or at least excuse this kind of behavior.

    The law is there to protect the bad guys as much as to protect the rest of us, folks. The moment you start exempting certain people from its protection...well, it's a dark road to go down.

    I also find it ironic that Daroxtar has a problem with provos meting out this kind of vigilante justice but no problem (it would seem, at any rate) with the Gardaí doing it.

    Now, no one can deny the job of the Gardaí is not an easy one: it really is an awful, awful job. And of course it's unfair to tar them all with the same brush; the vast majority of Gardaí are a credit to the force but neither that nor the nature of their job excuses those who break the law.

    We are most certainly not allowed to exact any type of retribution and there are paths of complaint that can be and have been taken
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Of course they're not accountable. That's why no Guards were suspended on foot of this alleged incident, and no-one has been charged with assault.

    Yes we are accountable in all aspects of our working and private lives via the Garda Siochana Act 2005. Are you accountable to your job when you are not working?

    Also check out this link here which states 4 Gardai were suspended a day after the complaint was made and rightly so.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-1311598.html


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    #46
    happyhappy
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭happyhappy


    there's lots of speculation on here and nobody who has posted knows what happened.

    this is far from a cut and dry case. far, far from it. the truth will come out in court.


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    #47
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I can see I need to introduce [sarcasm] tags more often.

    I would have hoped "no-one has been charged with assault" was a hint, but it was obviously a little too subtle...


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    #48
    Ziggurat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Ziggurat


    TheNog wrote: »
    We are most certainly not allowed to exact any type of retribution and there are paths of complaint that can be and have been taken

    Yes, that was the point I was making (once again, the written word fails to convey the subtleties and inflections of speech). That said, I apologise if I've offended you.


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    #49
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Quinine wrote: »
    Yes, that was the point I was making (once again, the written word fails to convey the subtleties and inflections of speech). That said, I apologise if I've offended you.

    N'er a bother at all.

    I hate people saying Gardai can do what we like which is very much the opposite


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    #50
    Cheerleader
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Cheerleader


    The teenager who was assulted was 'well known to Gardai',
    He has a list of previous convictions and had singled out an off duty garda the previous evening, giving him what he described as 'a hiding'.

    Turns out that because the garda had not reported the incident, the young gouger was off scott free.

    You all know that the garda look after their own, and this case is no different.
    They were young themselves and stupid.
    All they had to do was wait until they were off duty, follow this young fella down a laneway and beat him up.

    They abused their position and power and saddly will face severe punishment for this.

    As stated the Thug will also get a big pay out at the tax payers expense.

    Honestly these young gardai need their heads examined.


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    #51
    happyhappy
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭happyhappy


    Cheerleader wrote: »
    The teenager who was assulted was 'well known to Gardai',
    He has a list of previous convictions and had singled out an off duty garda the previous evening, giving him what he described as 'a hiding'.

    Turns out that because the garda had not reported the incident, the young gouger was off scott free.

    You all know that the garda look after their own, and this case is no different.
    They were young themselves and stupid.
    All they had to do was wait until they were off duty, follow this young fella down a laneway and beat him up.

    They abused their position and power and saddly will face severe punishment for this.

    As stated the Thug will also get a big pay out at the tax payers expense.

    Honestly these young gardai need their heads examined.


    its great that you know everything about this case already! do you work for the garda ombudsman?? don't believe everything you read in the papers.


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    #52
    Cheerleader
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Cheerleader


    happyhappy wrote: »
    its great that you know everything about this case already! do you work for the garda ombudsman?? don't believe everything you read in the papers.

    Ok so whats' your theory then?


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    #53
    happyhappy
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭happyhappy


    Cheerleader wrote: »
    Ok so whats' your theory then?

    let the court decide - as with anyone else who is charged before a court. thats my theory i'm afraid! :D


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