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DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

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    #632
    Sub430
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Sub430


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    You know the drill...

    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|||||
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|||||
    Buck65|||||

    Amadeus, I have the Longford half on Sunday. Should I still follow this weeks plan?


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    #633
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    I saw your report on the PMP, sounds like a good run :)

    I would follow the weeks plan but swap the 15 mile LSR for the race. A 13.1 race will do you more good than a 15 LSR at this stage and as you said it will be a good indicator of your potential.


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    #634
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|||||
    Buck65|||||


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    #635
    Shadyladee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭Shadyladee


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|||||
    Buck65|||||
    Shadyladee|4|30|175.5|Better than last week anyway!|

    I have been a bit absent from logs but I am still running, didnt fill in last weeks table, i didnt do too well last week anyway, only got three sessions in, so I tried to add a little bit extra to my runs this week to make up for it!


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    #636
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Shadyladee wrote: »
    i didnt do too well last week anyway, only got three sessions in, so I tried to add a little bit extra to my runs this week to make up for it!

    Be *very* careful doing this - and in fact I would recommend against it. The schedules build slowly to a peak, if you try to add on and catch up you run a risk of over-training or injury. Best practice is just to write teh bad week off and carry on with the schedule as planned.


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    #637
    Shadyladee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭Shadyladee


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    Be *very* careful doing this - and in fact I would recommend against it. The schedules build slowly to a peak, if you try to add on and catch up you run a risk of over-training or injury. Best practice is just to write teh bad week off and carry on with the schedule as planned.

    Thanks for the advice Amadeus, Wont do it again!


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    #638
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|6|42.73|262.13|good week with three tempo sessions including a 10k race|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|||||
    Buck65|||||
    Shadyladee|4|30|175.5|better than last week anyway


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    #639
    Triangle
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Triangle


    Jesus everyone seems to be doing great. Well done everyone.

    Amadeus, I've been working with my Physio over the last (good) few weeks and am now finished with her.
    Back running with absolutely no pain. Did the 10 miler last week and 12 yesterday with no problems.
    But i see from your schedule your running 15 mile for the long run...... this would be quite a jump for me.

    Generally i'm running along these lines

    monday - Swim
    Tuesday - 6 miles
    Wednesday - 3 miles
    Thursday - 6 miles
    Friday - Swim
    Saturday - Rest
    Sunday - 12 Miles
    (This was last weeks runs/Swims)

    Do you think i can jump back in or should I just go along by myself and sort out my own schedule?


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    #640
    goofygirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭goofygirl


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|6|42.73|262.13|good week with three tempo sessions including a 10k race|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|3|20|200|slow week|
    Buck65|||||
    Shadyladee|4|30|175.5|better than last week anyway


    I was absolutely KNACKERED last week after the half-marathon so no speedwork at all and had to jettison the 4 miler cause was on point of collapse.

    Forgot my watch when I was doing the 10 miler on Saturday which is hindsight was a good thing because I could just keep it nice and gentle and not be thinking (consciously or not) about the pace.

    That said, literally ten metres into the run I tripped over an hole in the ground and thwack! fell smack down onto the grass. My abs are killing me now as a result (it took me a while to realise why I was so sore!) but luckily didn't twist an ankle or anything.


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    #641
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Hey guys, as you probably know I have been following this thread and as a complete novice runner (couldn't run a mile in January) I have always planned to join this group. I have been running on a different schedule up till now as I am just back from a 4 week voluntary work holiday. Since I knew this in advance I started THe HH programme 7 weeks early getting up to week 13 before I left. Since I have been away I got in 4 casual runs the longest being 10 miles, however I had a nonrunning accident 2 weeks ago when a table tennis table fell on my big toe, busting the toenail. Luckily nothing was broken and the pain has subsidede, but I am apprehensive about running as I am still seeping some blood. Obvoiuosly I will quit and go see a chiropdist if there is much pain....
    Anyway, hope it is ok to join so late glad to see there is no 'funny stuff' in this week's schedule.


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    #642
    Bally8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭Bally8


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|6|42.73|262.13|good week with three tempo sessions including a 10k race|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|4|21|215.2|Had to abort 10miler after 6 as my eyes got all stingie from the monsoon washing my moisturiser into them:rolleyes:|
    Goofygirl|3|20|200|slow week|
    Buck65|||||
    Shadyladee|4|30|175.5|better than last week anyway


    I was going to try add the ten miler into this weeks schedule but after reading what you said above amadeus I presume I just let it go and continue on with the training plan as is?


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    #643
    Mr Marenghi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Mr Marenghi


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|4|26|219|enjoyed the PMP :)|
    Rainbow|4|27|172.5|Pretty good week :)|
    Mr Marenghi|3|22|174|Missed From last Wednesday till today, was at Green man Festival which was awesome!|
    osnola ivax|6|42.73|262.13|good week with three tempo sessions including a 10k race|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|4|21|215.2|Had to abort 10miler after 6 as my eyes got all stingie from the monsoon washing my moisturiser into them:rolleyes:|
    Goofygirl|3|20|200|slow week|
    Buck65|||||
    Shadyladee|4|30|175.5|better than last week anyway


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    #644
    Sub430
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Sub430


    4 miles easy in 39:04. Grand and handy. Nothing much to report on that one!


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    #645
    Sub430
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Sub430


    8 easy miles. 1hr20. Not too taxing, left shoulder a bit sore and getting a blister on top of one of my left toes. Hopefully not the sign of things to come.


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    #646
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Triangle wrote: »
    Jesus everyone seems to be doing great. Well done everyone.

    Amadeus, I've been working with my Physio over the last (good) few weeks and am now finished with her.
    Back running with absolutely no pain. Did the 10 miler last week and 12 yesterday with no problems.
    But i see from your schedule your running 15 mile for the long run...... this would be quite a jump for me.

    Generally i'm running along these lines

    monday - Swim
    Tuesday - 6 miles
    Wednesday - 3 miles
    Thursday - 6 miles
    Friday - Swim
    Saturday - Rest
    Sunday - 12 Miles
    (This was last weeks runs/Swims)

    Do you think i can jump back in or should I just go along by myself and sort out my own schedule?

    Next week is a 16 and then we have a fallback so maybe try and bridge the gap in smaller increments - 14 this week and 15 the week after maybe? It really depends on how you are feeling about teh distances but if you can manage the step up in distance then go for it.
    menoscemo wrote: »
    Hey guys, as you probably know I have been following this thread and as a complete novice runner (couldn't run a mile in January) I have always planned to join this group. I have been running on a different schedule up till now as I am just back from a 4 week voluntary work holiday. Since I knew this in advance I started THe HH programme 7 weeks early getting up to week 13 before I left. Since I have been away I got in 4 casual runs the longest being 10 miles, however I had a nonrunning accident 2 weeks ago when a table tennis table fell on my big toe, busting the toenail. Luckily nothing was broken and the pain has subsidede, but I am apprehensive about running as I am still seeping some blood. Obvoiuosly I will quit and go see a chiropdist if there is much pain....
    Anyway, hope it is ok to join so late glad to see there is no 'funny stuff' in this week's schedule.

    :eek:

    I'm not going to say anything about that! Only you and a medical professional can decide how much running you can do on the injury but I strongly advise stopping as soon as you feel any pain.

    4 weeks is a long time and the casual runs won't really have done a huge amount to maintain your fitness. For example I took about a month off after Rotterdam in April and I lost about a min/mile in speed despite a fair amount of cross training and (like you) a couple of shorter runs. Take it very easy, don't try and maintain the same level of intensity as pre-break (irrespective of injury) and build your LSRs back up slowly is my advice.
    Bally8 wrote: »
    I was going to try add the ten miler into this weeks schedule but after reading what you said above amadeus I presume I just let it go and continue on with the training plan as is?

    Yeah, I'd let it go, tbh. It would give you a pretty signifigant jump in weekly mileage and no point tempting the overuse fates with a major and un-needed leap in mileage.

    Folks when you are aiming at a first marathon or a sub 4:30 the mileage doesn't need to be heroic and - like I said before - what will get you there is consistency. One nice long run per week with a couple of others thrown in and you'll be grand. If you miss a week, you miss a week. if you miss a run, you miss a run. In the grand scheme it will make a minimal difference to your performance on the day (as long as it doesn't become a habit of course).

    However having weekly mileage totals of 30 (normal week) / 20 (missed a couple of runs) / 40 (normal week + missed runs) is potentially a recipie for disaster. the advice is to increase mileage by no more than 10% per week. While that can be adjusted up or down to go up by 50% is asking for trouble. And as HH himself says "better 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained"!


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    #647
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    --amadeus-- wrote: »
    I'm not going to say anything about that! Only you and a medical professional can decide how much running you can do on the injury but I strongly advise stopping as soon as you feel any pain.

    4 weeks is a long time and the casual runs won't really have done a huge amount to maintain your fitness. For example I took about a month off after Rotterdam in April and I lost about a min/mile in speed despite a fair amount of cross training and (like you) a couple of shorter runs. Take it very easy, don't try and maintain the same level of intensity as pre-break (irrespective of injury) and build your LSRs back up slowly is my advice.

    Thanks, The 3 mile yesterday went fine, lets see about the 7 mile tonight...there is basically no pain in the toe and surprisingly, I don't seem to put much weight on the big toe when running. I hope to finish this weeks normal schedules without problem.
    The 10 miler I did while away was closer to 11 miles (17km) and it was really quite fast; two Italian guys went with me and I pushed really hard to try to drop them-to no avail- we did it in about 1hr 30 min, so it was more like a race!! anyway that was 2 weeks ago, just before the injury.

    I noticed last night my HR was up above what it would normally have been on the 3 miler but my pace was normal (8m"30) and I felt comfortable enough. I will try to do 9 minute miles tonight for the 7.


    Edit: just back from 7 mile run: 1hr02m for 8:53 pace. Avg Hr 151. comfortable, no toe problems. I am proably a notch or two below what I was a month ago but not much!


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    #648
    goofygirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭goofygirl


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|||||
    Rainbow|||||
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|4|31|231|same old, same old|
    Buck65|||||


    I hope Amadeus doesn't mind me jumping the gun (if that's not mixing my metaphors) and posting this table!

    Monday: 7 hellish miles after work. It was HOT - about 25C - and my abs were still killing me from my face-plant the Saturday before. I know Bally8 has talked about needed to pee on runs before, well whatever was happening in my abdominal region after the 7 miles I had an urgent - and I mean urgent - need to, eh, poo. Sorry if that's too graphic. I scurried into the nearest building (which happened to be the Rocky View Hospital actually so I tried to be as inconspicuous as possible!) and, well, you know.

    Tuesday: speedwork. 4 x 1600 metres. Another hot night, extremely humid. Clothes stuck to my skin with sweat by the end.

    Thursday: easy 4 miler, seemed to take me longer to get ready than to do the actual run.

    Saturday: Due to some, eh, haphazard map reading on my part my 15 miler turned into 16.4 miles run and a 2 mile recovery stroll home. I got back about 10 minutes ago and now I'm slumped in a heap on my bed. Had a gel at what I thought was the 12 miler marker but no, turned out in fact to be the 15.5 mile marker...


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    #649
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    goofygirl wrote: »
    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|||||
    Rainbow|||||
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|4|31|231|same old, same old|
    Buck65|||||
    menoscemo|5|33.5|325*|stiff legs but best ever lsr. 8:42 pace for 15 miles.

    *approx
    sorry about jumping in but I now feel like an amadeus all star and you should let me join.


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    #650
    goofygirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭goofygirl


    the more the merrier! I also see that in my rubbish computer skills I managed to knock Shadylaydee off the list...sorry about that please jump back on too!


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    #651
    GForcer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭GForcer1


    HI Amadeus,

    Just looking for some adivce on whether you think i could complete the marathon, not too pushed on times, would be happy to complete.

    I just completed GF last wend and had been training fairly hard for that on bike and running.

    For my running, the most i was doing in the last 2-3 wks before was 13 miles, i could do this in about 1:45-50 but did a PB of 1:35 ( very hard and may have over done it as was sore afterwards for quiet sometime)

    My 5k time is about 23-24mins, 10k is around 48mins, have done 10 miles in 79mins, i would find these times comfortable for the distance.

    In the last two weeks, i've not done any training, GF was last wend and nothing this week due to work issues. Planning on getting back to running this week if i can, also need to go to physio to get knee looked at as gets sore sometimes now, not sure why.

    Anyway, i've not done any structured marathon training over the summer, but have been, also think i am at a good level of fitness and want to keep going, have always wanted to do a marathon, do you think i could jump onto a training plan now for the remainder of the weeks before DCM? Was planning to do the HM end of Sept too?

    cheers


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    #652
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|||||
    Rainbow|4|30|202.5|15 miles - longest run ever! :D|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|||||
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|4|31|231|same old, same old|
    Buck65|||||
    menoscemo|5|33.5|325*|stiff legs but best ever lsr. 8:42 pace for 15 miles.
    Shadyladee|||||

    Added Shadyladee back :)


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    #653
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|||||
    Rainbow|4|30|202.5|15 miles - longest run ever! :D|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|4|37.3|299.3|10k race on sat, and 16.2 mile lsr on sun|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|4|31|231|same old, same old|
    Buck65|||||
    menoscemo|5|33.5|325*|stiff legs but best ever lsr. 8:42 pace for 15 miles.
    Shadyladee|||||


    question fir you big A. I ran a 10k on sat and the lsr on Sunday felt terrible but glad to get the miles in all the same. My schedule now has an 18 mile lsr planned for next Sunday but I am at a wedding this weekend (Friday & Saturday, but probably won't be in the mood for lsr on sunday), so I planned to do the lsr on wednesday. Is this too close to a hard fought lsr today? Will I have to watch myself next Saturday on the booze and do it on Sunday next because don't think that's gonna b possible.


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    #654
    Sub430
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Sub430


    osnola ivax wrote: »
    Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
    Sub430|3|25|244|Half marathon in 1:53:40. Delighted with that|
    Rainbow|4|30|202.5|15 miles - longest run ever! :D|
    Mr Marenghi|||||
    osnola ivax|4|37.3|299.3|10k race on sat, and 16.2 mile lsr on sun|
    oryx|||||
    Bally8|||||
    Goofygirl|4|31|231|same old, same old|
    Buck65|||||
    menoscemo|5|33.5|325*|stiff legs but best ever lsr. 8:42 pace for 15 miles.
    Shadyladee|||||

    Longford half marathon done and dusted.

    I think I took tapering to the extreme as my last run before the race was Wednesday, I meant to run Thursday and stretch the legs yesterday but events conspired against me. As a result I was raring to go this morning.

    The race itself was well organised, picked up the chip, number and goodie bag yesterday. Goodie bag was decent, well I must qualify that by saying it was only my third ever goodie bag but best so far. They gave you a choice of long or short sleeved non technical running shirts which was handy as I am short long sleeved tops. Along with that there was arm and hammer toothpaste, snack bar, chocolate kimberley, instant hot choc, fig rolls, compeed, flaxseed and goji berries.

    It rained pretty much from the start but that was grand as it was quite a muggy day. I expected the course to be flat from reading boards but according to the Longford marathon thread, they changed the half this year so the course was hillier than usual. According to the Garmin, the low point was 70ft and the high point was 235ft if that helps anyone judge :rolleyes:

    I ran with a mate and we decided to try and keep it at around 9 minute miles and see how we went. We covered the first 9 miles between 8:51 and 9:08, picked it up for mile 10 in 8:38 where we started passing people, mile 11 in 8:19. At this stage I decided to go for it, sure why not, as Amadeus said we've probably never been fitter! Mile 12 in 7:54 and really started to feel it until some crazy man who had finished and was running towards me started screaming at us all to run faster - worked for me (thanks mental man), dug deep, raced to the line with some other guy who I just finished ahead of. Final mile in 7:24.

    All in all a good race but could I hold that pace for 26.2 miles is the question? I think a 4 hour could be on the cards if I keep the training up :eek:

    I took a gel and around 7.5 and another at 10 (I think :confused:) - defo took two though.

    13m in 1:53:40 as per the Garmin so that's around 17 minutes off my PB. Sweet.


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    #655
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Drum roll....here is this weeks plan

    Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
    rest|4m run|8 m|4 m run|rest|cross|16


    (Link to original here)

    Again we are taking it pretty light in terms of speedwork. However you could do 4 miles w/2 @Lactate Threashold on Monday, rest Tue and then carry on. This will give you a tougher week but also add speed for those aiming at a given time.

    Other than that the midweeks are adding a fair bit of mileage through the week now as well as the LSR stretching. Your legs will be feeling it so rest them up, get massage if you need it, get in plentiful supplies of Deep Heat (!) and do everything you can to live right. Good food, lots of sleep, plenty of fluids. A few more weeks of work and you'll be on teh Finish line...

    I have seen teh Q's above and will answer them as soon as I get a chance, possibly tomm.


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    #656
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    osnola ivax wrote: »
    2 hours 10 mins? I've been keeping a close eye on you current form and you could crap all over that time.

    I'm only joking, but you know the way, with the people and the excitement and bib number etc, it might be hard to contain yourself, and you are capable of a very good time. Don't know how hilly longford is though.

    And dare I say, bearing in mind everything you have said about enjoying it, a slightly conservative dcm goal / name.

    I want this post bookmarked for reference when you report on the longford half. :D

    @ sub430.......ahem!!......

    Yes I was sad enough to go and find this post.

    Seriously though, well done fella, great time. And I'm really glad to see you reassessing your goals sub4. I think we can do it! <insert Barack Obama style motivational rhetoric>

    ;)


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    #657
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    osnola ivax wrote: »
    And I'm really glad to see you reassessing your goals sub4. I think we can do it! <insert Barack Obama style motivational rhetoric>

    ;)
    Does this need a Kicking Bishop Brennan Up The Arse pic?


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    #658
    --amadeus--
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Sub430 wrote: »
    I think a 4 hour could be on the cards if I keep the training up :eek:

    I took a gel and around 7.5 and another at 10 (I think :confused:) - defo took two though.

    13m in 1:53:40 as per the Garmin so that's around 17 minutes off my PB. Sweet.

    Ack sorry - meant to say WELL DONE!!!!


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    #659
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Does this need a Kicking Bishop Brennan Up The Arse pic?

    Don't think we've had one on this thread yet? By all means rk give it everything you've got :)


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    #660
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    osnola ivax wrote: »
    Don't think we've had one on this thread yet? By all means rk give it everything you've got :)

    Don't mind if I do.

    71226288_4bed47b736.jpg


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    #661
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Don't mind if I do.

    71226288_4bed47b736.jpg

    Probably the most iconic moment in Irish history. I'll never forget the first time I saw an episode of father Ted, OMG, I was literally on the floor laughing, no programme has ever made me do that since. Dougal just cracked me up.


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