DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

Wilbury

Hi Misty Floyd,

Fair question. Training was very similar both years. I would say 90% of the improvement was down to pacing. The first year I tried to put time in the bank and at around the 20 mile mark my calf muscles caved in and I hobbled home! The second year was almost even splits, which was what I had set out to do.
The only slight anomaly is that I could have possibly shaved a couple of minutes off the first time, as when you stop to walk others tend to pull up beside you and you compare woes and you probably walk a little more than intended. But I wouldn't have changed that for the world. (actually that part was a great laugh!).

Jenfer

Hi all, I have been following this thread with great interest throughout my training, it has got me out the door when i really didnt feel like it and it stops me boring my friends to tears with marathon talk! Hope all of your training is still going well- not long now.

I only actually registered for the marathon today- i leave everything up to the last minute! but wanted to make sure i was injury free. this is marathon number three for me so am hoping for a sub 4.15 all going well on the day- so i will have to stay ahead of one pacing group and behind the other!!

Good luck with the 20lsr this weekend- just think next time we pass the 20 mile mark we will be on roebuck road on our way back into town for the big finish!!:D

Sub430

Amadeus, I managed a couple of run/walk miles on Wednesday with no ill effect so hopefully can increase the distance over the coming days.
How much should I increase by though?

Is attempting 20 loco?

--amadeus--

I know you didn't do anything last week but what's the longest you've run and when was that?

In terms of progressions how strong are you mentally? As in can you go out the door with no fixed distance in mind but run by feel alone? If you can then that would be teh way to do it - run until you feel you are getting to an edge and then stop.

The other option is to concentrate just on your stamina, as per Tergats latest post. If you would normally run 10 min miles then 20 miles = 200 minutes, which is 3hrs 20. Maybe it would be an idea to decide that you will train for (for example) 3:30 or 3:45 but will do so using run / walk? Be disciplined about it - 2 mins walking for every 10 mins running or whatever and do it from the start. That way you'll get the endurance and mechanical strain benefits from the LSR but with a greatly reduced risk of muscle damage or injury aggrivation.

Sub430

Longest was 18 about 4 weeks ago then did a 13 but nada since then.
I have plotted a new 20 miles route but as per your previous advice to buck, it's a loop and the furthest distance from my house is about 2 miles so if I do have to stop it's not an 8 mile walk home.

I'll go out and try and run as far as possible but I know my limits, if I get 4 miles done then happy enough, if I get 10 miles done delighted etc etc.

Thank you sir.

--amadeus--

No worries - sounds like you have your head screwed on and don't need any advice from teh likes of me!!

osnola ibax

Amadeus, I know this is a bit premature but do you have any view on the length of lsr next week. I want to do as long as possible, maybe 16, but the programme says 12. It's just that I have missed two lsr's already and want to make up for them a bit on the endurance front.

Oryx

I think weve all missed lsr's at this stage. My longest has been 16, and my knee caved in even at that. As such, my marathon is tentative depending on that. But hey, we all have our injury issues right now.

Almost kept to the plan so far this week, which is a first.

menoscemo

osnola ivax wrote: »

Amadeus, I know this is a bit premature but do you have any view on the length of lsr next week. I want to do as long as possible, maybe 16, but the programme says 12. It's just that I have missed two lsr's already and want to make up for them a bit on the endurance front.

I too would like to do a 16, only beacuse i tried to do one twice before and twice got injured. I want to get over my 16 mile hoodooo

--amadeus--

osnola ivax wrote: »

Amadeus, I know this is a bit premature but do you have any view on the length of lsr next week. I want to do as long as possible, maybe 16, but the programme says 12. It's just that I have missed two lsr's already and want to make up for them a bit on the endurance front.

Stick to the plan, tbh.

I know you've missed a couple of runs but you've done a fair amount of mileage and hit the vast majority of the LSRs. You have the endurance.

What you've got is "EOTP" - Early Onset Taper Madness. It's that feeling in the last couple of weeks where you are convinced that everyone has done more training than you, you haven't got enough LSRs done, you'll make a holy show of yourself and what ever possessed you to go into this marathon nonsense in teh first place.

Relax and have faith in your training and your plan. A long run that close to the race isn't worth it, the key to a good taper is to maintain the intensity of your running while reducing teh volume allowing the body to strengthen and rest. A 16 mile run will leave you fatigued, compromising the quality of teh other workouts in the week and so reducing the quality of your taper. Quantity down, Quality kept is your mantra and a too long LSR will actually be counter productive.

Additionally I have read that it takes a minimum of 2 weeks for any training to have an effect. In other words from 2 weeks out all you can do is maintain your fitness, you cannot improve it. The improvements you will get during weeks 1 - 2 before the marathon are from teh training 3 - 4 weeks before.

[edit] And if you have a habit of picking up injuries on long runs then def avoid doing one so close to the race. An injury picked up 4 weeks from race day won't necessarily prevent you doing the marathon. An injury 2 weeks out almost certainly would.

menoscemo

Another question there boss. I am doing my 20 mile LSR this evening and i was planning to run the rathfarnham 5k on sunday if my legs are feeling up to it. I missed out one of the 5 mile runs this week with the plan of replacing it with the 5k race. Is this a good Idea at all?

Sub430

--amadeus-- wrote: »

What you've got is "EOTP" - Early Onset Taper Madness.

AKA End Of The Plan

--amadeus--

menoscemo wrote: »

Another question there boss. I am doing my 20 mile LSR this evening and i was planning to run the rathfarnham 5k on sunday if my legs are feeling up to it. I missed out one of the 5 mile runs this week with the plan of replacing it with the 5k race. Is this a good Idea at all?

No Bosses around here

Yep, racing miles count extra so a 5k race swapped for a 5 miler is fine. Just be careful as your legs will be very stressed after the long run and so it would be really easy to pick up a strain or a pull during teh race. DOMS normally peaks 24 - 48 hours after training so you'll still be in the danger zone.

osnola ibax

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Stick to the plan, tbh.

I know you've missed a couple of runs but you've done a fair amount of mileage and hit the vast majority of the LSRs. You have the endurance.

What you've got is "EOTP" - Early Onset Taper Madness. It's that feeling in the last couple of weeks where you are convinced that everyone has done more training than you, you haven't got enough LSRs done, you'll make a holy show of yourself and what ever possessed you to go into this marathon nonsense in teh first place.

Relax and have faith in your training and your plan. A long run that close to the race isn't worth it, the key to a good taper is to maintain the intensity of your running while reducing teh volume allowing the body to strengthen and rest. A 16 mile run will leave you fatigued, compromising the quality of teh other workouts in the week and so reducing the quality of your taper. Quantity down, Quality kept is your mantra and a too long LSR will actually be counter productive.

Additionally I have read that it takes a minimum of 2 weeks for any training to have an effect. In other words from 2 weeks out all you can do is maintain your fitness, you cannot improve it. The improvements you will get during weeks 1 - 2 before the marathon are from teh training 3 - 4 weeks before.

[edit] And if you have a habit of picking up injuries on long runs then def avoid doing one so close to the race. An injury picked up 4 weeks from race day won't necessarily prevent you doing the marathon. An injury 2 weeks out almost certainly would.

cheers amadeus, that makes a lot of sense to me, I'll stick to the plan which has changed to the novice plan as I was never really ready for the intermediate one i don't think. I appreciate it.

OI

menoscemo

whoop, I am in taper mode.
High 5

--amadeus--

Well done

Sub430

Yey, finally got out.:D

First run since Sept 12th :eek:

Knee held up but halfway through my calf started playing up so discretion being the better part of valour I headed for home.
.
Delighted to get a worthwhile run under my belt even though I used the 7m run, 3 min walk as advised.

11.2m in 2h02 Ang HR 148

Feel fine so may head out again tomorrow.

goofygirl

Woo hoo let the tapering begin!

Did my 20 miler this morning, with a balmy high of 2C and intermittant freezing drizzle. First few miles were slow, calves were tight etc. Middle miles were grand. Last four miles quite frankly I felt like I was on another planet or something. Took me 3:35 but my mile splits got faster and faster as I went on: last mile was in 9:33 whereas the earlier ones were sometimes even down in the 11 min plus stage. Weird.

Legs are grand now, just feel completely drained and wrecked. Guzzling down the chocolate milk, also had a breakfast bagel but no appetite whatsoever.

Also seriously wondering how I'm going to manage 26.2 on the day....

menoscemo

Well done. Weird about the appetite thing. I had none at all either after 20 miles yesterday and normally after a run I could eat the whole fridge....

RacoonQueen

menoscemo wrote: »

Well done. Weird about the appetite thing. I had none at all either after 20 miles yesterday and normally after a run I could eat the whole fridge....

I struggled with eating after my first marathon. Didn't feel like eating for days afterwards. Made sure to take on some high calorie liquids though juices, smoothies etc because I really couldn't stomach eating. I know it can actually be quite a common problem.

menoscemo

Christ, I hope that doesn't happen to me. I am planning on having two big mac meals straight after I cross the finish line


and maybe a portion of nuggets as well

Oryx

Managed 19.5 miles today, close enough for me to the plan, i set out to do 18. Three hours eleven minutes, felt ok till maybe the last mile, when i had just finished a three mile uphill stretch. Legs were tired coming in, but had more stamina in the tank, which is a good sign. So woo hoo this might just be possible.

--amadeus--

TAPER!!!

How quick did that come around?

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|5m run|8 run|4 m run|rest|cross|12 LSR


(Link to original here)

If you feel up to it then throw in some strides in the 4 miler. The trick to a taper is to reduce the volume but maintain the intensity so don't slack off and drop the pace. As every week though keep an eye on things and if you are carrying an injury or a strain or whatever then be conservative. HH says that it's better to go in 10% undertrained rather than 1% overtrained.

Speaking of knocks and strains the next three weeks are going to be very tough. I guarantee you that you will be pootling along and feel something that you probably wouldn't normally notice. And in your head it will be "OMG!!! I've pulled my (insert random body part)!!! I'm out of the race!!" Don't worry, that's natural and normal. And don't worry if you find yourself banishing your nearest and dearest to the shed just because they have a slight runny nose. Again, perfectly normal What you do need to do is ensure that you stay as level headed as possible around knocks and strains. Keep perspective on things and you'll be fine.

Next weeks lecture is on PMA (Positive Mental Attitude!), so you have been warned!

--amadeus--

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|||||
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|||||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|||||
Shadyladee|||||

menoscemo

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|||||
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|||||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||

rainbow kirby

--amadeus-- wrote: »

TAPER!!!

How quick did that come around?!

TOO quickly! Can't believe it's only 3 weeks away now...


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|4|40|342|20 miler HURT. Glad to have it done though.|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|||||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||

Sub430

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|1|11|317|Good to be back (ish) |
Rainbow|4|40|342|20 miler HURT. Glad to have it done though.|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|||||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||

goofygirl

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|1|11|317|Good to be back (ish) |
Rainbow|4|40|342|20 miler HURT. Glad to have it done though.|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|||||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|4|40|402|lalalala tapering|
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||

Well while the rest of you fine people enjoy the moderate climate the Gulf Stream has to offer, winter has come to Canada with the first snowfall this weekend. I carry a water bottle when I run and on the 20 miler this weekend my bottle-carrying hand was cold but my other one wasn't. So I ran with one black glove on and I could see people I met on the trails wondering if this was some sort of homage to Michael Jackson or Madonna or something.

The forecast for next Saturday is - wait for it - a low of minus 16 and a high of minus 4. Brrr. Throughout the course of this marathon training schedule I'll have run through everything from plus 30 and baking hot to subzero and snowing. Bring on your worst weather Dublin, I'm ready

osnola ibax

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|1|11|317|Good to be back (ish) |
Rainbow|4|40|342|20 miler HURT. Glad to have it done though.|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|4|26|413||
Bally8|||||
Goofygirl|4|40|402|lalalala tapering|
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||

Bally8

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|1|11|317|Good to be back (ish) |
Rainbow|4|40|342|20 miler HURT. Glad to have it done though.|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|4|26|413||
Bally8|3|29.5|361.5|Bad start to the week but great finish|
Goofygirl|4|40|402|lalalala tapering|
Buck65|||||
menoscemo|4|40|439|Delighted. got LSR done and a sub 22min 5k:)|
Shadyladee|||||