DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

rainbow kirby

Congrats!!! Awesome time

osnola ibax

Goofy girl, another unbelievable time, brilliant running, congrats.

menoscemo

Great run Goofy Girl. By the way we managed to get our little token of appreciation to Amadeus in the Conrad.
Anyway may aswell throw un my race report here too. xpost from my log:

menoscemo wrote: »

So the big day today.
I was well rested, I carbo-loaded and hydrated, I was not sick and had no injuries. Everything you could say was set up for a great run. Met Ul student on the start line, never saw you again (obviously), hope you made your 3.30 target. I was planning to follow the 4 hr pacers but they were up near the start line and I was well back in the pack, maybe a minute or 2 behind. Made it my goal to catch them and then cling on.
After a slow first mile I banged out 3 or four mid 8 minute ones and soon bumped into OI. and ran with him a bit, then I ran up and introduced myslef to amadeus the 4hr pacer and all seemed to be going well. I told him about my efforts to catch him and ne immediately said 'uh oh, fast miles early you pay later'. Anyway had to jump out for a pitstop at about 7 miles and I never got back to the front of that group. I ran the next 3 miles with OI and then i broke ahead. I had those black 4hr ballons in my sight all the way. Jenfer inroduced herself to me around mile 12 and we stuck together for the next 5 or so miles with those black baloons just tantalisingly in front. I was really feeling the pain and you really kept me going Jenfer thank a lot!!(saw your time on OI's log there-fantastic, you really performed on the day). In rathgar at around the 17 mile marker I had to leave jenfer for a second unscheduled pitstop down a side street. Not much came out to be honest and I realised from what did that I was severely dehydrated. I had misse several water stops-big mistake. I made it a mission to drink as much as possible the rest of the way.
Anyway around this point I lost sight of the black ballons but felt good for a few miles, was thinking that If I kept it up I could get sub 4 since I started a minute or two behing the pacers. Then at closkea bang!! It all went, I hit the wall and got a stitch simultaneosly. I walked and took on water and gels but it did n good. Everytime I started to trop the stitch came back. The legs were also gone. Anyway I walked/hobbled the guts of the next 4 miles until the St Johns ambulance on the ucd flyover. There I was treated to a deep heat massage and tried to hobble on (15 minute mile there!!) as we came off nutley lane I got a second wind of sorts. My goal was now to just finish and I broke into a woddle/trot. Thankfully I managed to keep this going for the rest of the course and hobbled in in 4:18 gun time, 4:15 by the garmin.

Met OI and Xebec after I think OI suffered even more than me and man it was hell!! Great courage in finishing. Met Amadeus, Iron tractor Boy, Robin PH, Rainbow Kirby and saw honeymonster in the conrad after for a pint. Great performance RK by the way. Well done also to Jenfer, coming off a 1:57 half marathon, a 4:04 marathon is savage!!

Think I am going to stick to the short stuff for a while. Marathon running is utter craziness, I think only sadists should apply

So who's up for another marathon? My gut reaction says never again....

Munster_Gal

Well done everyone. Looking forward to reading those reports

goofygirl

menoscemo wrote: »

So who's up for another marathon?

Absolutely. Maybe even in the springtime. I'm hooked.

xebec

menoscemo wrote: »

So who's up for another marathon? My gut reaction says never again....

I know we had this conversation already, but yeah I'm deffo up for it!! And like I said, you'll change your mind sometime over the next week or two!

osnola ibax

menoscemo wrote: »

So who's up for another marathon? My gut reaction says never again....

no fcuking way

rainbow kirby

menoscemo wrote: »

Great run Goofy Girl. By the way we managed to get our little token of appreciation to Amadeus in the Conrad.
Anyway may aswell throw un my race report here too. xpost from my log:


So who's up for another marathon? My gut reaction says never again....

Dublin next year, gonna shoot for sub-4:15.

doledude86

U prob doont remember meI commented at the start and then was a keen observer of the theard (u prob tot i was just another person with big ideas and little follow through)

Thanks amadeus some of ur tips wre very weel received and congrats to all of u great times by all..Must say it was enjoyable out theretoday a tear almost came to my eyes with the supports on the street especiallyc oming up to the half way and finish points..anyway managed to pull a 3.56 out of the bag and if you remeber my dad who I mentioned had done all 29 and today 30 strolled to a 3.26(he's some man) Thanks again some of the stories on this I cud really relate to and I want to show my appreciation we all should be very happy with ourselves and Im very proud of my medal..No running for min 2weeks:)

I suspect alot of the ppl on this thread will be repeat offenders in regards to marathon running

goofygirl

Chip time up on the website: 4:19:42.

Oryx

Chip time of 3.59. Rainbow, i credit you with me getting that. I kept repeating a phrase you used, i wanted 'my inner child target'

osnola ibax

Oryx wrote: »

Chip time of 3.59. Rainbow, i credit you with me getting that. I kept repeating a phrase you used, i wanted 'my inner child target'

thats amazing oryx, amazing result, congratulations, i knew you had a great time in you

menoscemo

waiting anxioulsy for news on Sub430 himself......

Mr Marenghi

I'll write a more detailed report tomoro but basically....far harder than I expected. The last 6 miles were so tough ! Anyway, a time of 4hrs 4 mins, was really happy with it. Up to mile 22 I was on for sub 4 but cramps in my left leg slowed me.

Another marathon ? maybe with a lot more training !

menoscemo

congrats mr marenghi. Super effort.

Oryx

Im having trouble seeing how everyone did, cos im on boards mobile. But well done everyone, especially shore who had a hard race and toughed it out to the finish. Im only sorry i was in such a state after all i could do was hobble back to the hotel. Couldnt make the conrad.

metamorphosis

Well done to everybody. All should be well proud!

Mr Marenghi

menoscemo wrote: »

congrats mr marenghi. Super effort.

Thanks !

So.......how it went.....

Sunday morning I had cramps in my stomach and a touch of a headache. Nothing really bad but it made me nervous that it'd be a problem during the race. People said it was down to nervousness but I had felt I had a bit of a cold during the week. Either way I still ate all the pasta etc and got the carbs into me. Had a great nights sleep Sunday night.

Monday morning I got up at 6, porridge, OJ and a banana and back for a snooze. I live near St Patricks Cathedral so a nice walk down to Merrion Square for about 7.55. Seeing all the runners, the atmosphere etc really brought it home that this was really going to happen, I didn't actually feel nervous though, which I was surprised about. Waiting in the pen there were a lot of families etc along the barriers - an odd thing that happened was some runners who were late or whatever pushed though and jumped the barriers, which was fine, but there was one point near me where they couldn't get in, there was no space and they had to wait for the crowd to move up a bit. There was one guy, maybe mid 30's, dressed in black who said something pretty rude to and elderly couple who weren't even in his way ! and at any point when anything was called over the loudspeaker where people called or clapped this guy just stood still and did nothing. Its strange but he was in my peripheral vision for the whole time waiting and I really wanted to lean over and tell him that if he had a problem he "should have f**king got here in time like everybody else"....anyway.

So the race began, I could see the black sub 4 balloons, I wasn't too far behind and by Trinity I was running alongside them. Kept with them and said hello to Amadeus in the Phoenix Park. Up to half way I felt pretty good and kept up for sub 4. Around mile 12 I spotted somebody I know, at the same time I seen the sub 4 balloons getting tangled, and then realised that when looking at these 2 things, I'd missed a water station ! Come the next station at mile 15 I was dying for it, I was thirsty and I wanted it for taking gels. In Milltown I met some people I know which was cool. Once I turned onto Clonskeagh Rd things seemed to get harder, and once I was on Roebuck Rd I really began to feel it and I started to slow up, the Sub 4 balloons began to move into the distance. My body felt tired, definitely but also mentally I just felt pretty spent really. Passing mile 20 felt great, for about 10 secs. and I ran down Fosters Avenue and onto the dual carraigeway. Odd to say but I didn't know that you had to run up and over the flyover, I presumed the road would be closed or whatever so when I seen this I was annoyed, especially as at the hill on Roebuck Rd some guy kept shouting "come on, that's it, the last hill ". Nutley Lane by RTE and onto Merrion Rd were so hard, just really tough, legs were gone, felt slightly light headed also and even though there was only 3 miles I couldn't lift my mood. At the RDS and again on Shelbourne Rd I had to stop for a few seconds with a cramp in my left leg - I've never had a cramp before and could only run on by restricting the bending of my left leg. I just pushed through the last few miles and when i turned onto Nassau St I picked it up and crossed the line in 4hrs 4 min. According to my pacing band I was on for 4hrs even when I was at mile 23, but I couldn't keep it up with the cramps. once I crossed the finish line I felt pretty good though and I started all this to do Sub 4.30, so I'm very happy.

Thoughts on it now it's over-
I probably should have done this with the Sub 4.30 pacers, but might as well have pushed it hard.
I'd only do another one if I had more training. One thing I was definitely missing is more longer runs. I really feel that one 20mile run is not enough, mentally anyway. Some people say they do a 23 mile run as part of training and I'd say this helps. I also did my LSR's too fast i think and my PMP was all over the place in training - but you only learn these things by doing it ! It was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done and during it I swore never ever again. But looking back if I could do it again but be more able, better trained etc then yeah, why not.

Over all an amazing experience, very very well organised and a huge thanks to Amadeus and everybody here ! i definitely wouldn't have done the marathon without this thread.

osnola ibax

Brilliant performance mr. Marenghi, you should be thrilled

kennyb3

Mr Marenghi wrote: »

I'd only do another one if I had more training. One thing I was definitely missing is more longer runs. I really feel that one 20mile run is not enough, mentally anyway. Some people say they do a 23 mile run as part of training and I'd say this helps. I also did my LSR's too fast i think and my PMP was all over the place in training - but you only learn these things by doing it ! .

can i ask you about this, just wondering why you think that? this is not aimed at you or anybody here specifically but just thinking about yesterday and perhaps more experienced marathoners will post - but just from looking at predicted times from a range of people to what they got on the day and reading the reports, it seems alot of people cracked at 18 or 20 miles, yet people do this distance in training - fair enough cracking at 23 to 24 miles. for me the big issue is surely pace. doing long runs at a slower pace but then on the day you go faster so you crack earlier. i know why lsr are done at a slower pace - i.e recovery and not breaking down the body but i think doing them too slow can also be detrimental - i guess striking a balance is key. i.e 1st half at plus 10% of PMP and 2nd half at PMP.

Too many people seem to base their marathon time on half marathon times plus 10 mins, alot of teh lads who went out to get 3 hours or just over seemed to be widely off teh mark and suffered. but surely for a half marathon your racing at full pace over half the distance and going out too close to this pace (i.e only plus 5 mins to half marathon race time at half way) is too close to your threshold and therefore your likely to suffer later on esp as you go into the unknown last 6 miles. as i say not something that is aimed at you , just got thinking about long run paces for a while last night.

goofygirl

So...what now?

rainbow kirby

Feet up and relax, preferably with good food and drink

Seriously... I'm thinking of possibly picking a shorter race in December and having a good crack at trying to improve my 5k or 10k PB. Will definitely be doing the Raheny 5 in January, and am considering the Connemara half in April.

Wilbury

Congratulations everybody, brilliant reading here!!! One of the best things that marathon running brings out in us (compared to most sports) is that people are genuinely pleased for others and interested in their results. Well done......

P.S. Now you all know what the last six miles are like:).

osnola ibax

1 week off completely, I should rest everything for a few weeks really, allow all injuries to heal properly, then build again slowly, yesterday I said never again, but today I feel a little differently but I wouldn't do it again without the long runs. If I got injured again in the next training cycle, I would definitely call it a day and stick to my guns. You really need those long runs 20 miles plus. I'm gonna have to get at least 3 20 milers next training cycle before I'd try that again.

Don't get me wrong, I have no regrets, I'm delighted I ran and completed it yesterday, I'd be livid with myself had I not given it a go but the one lesson I take from all this is lsr's are key.

nomadic

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Feet up and relax, preferably with good food and drink

Seriously... I'm thinking of possibly picking a shorter race in December and having a good crack at trying to improve my 5k or 10k PB. Will definitely be doing the Raheny 5 in January, and am considering the Connemara half in April.

There's the 5k jingle bells run in the phoenix park on the 5th of december and the aware 10k a week later in the park aswell. Think i'll do both.

Damn this running lark. The marathon was supposed to be the end of it!

metamorphosis

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Feet up and relax, preferably with good food and drink

Seriously... I'm thinking of possibly picking a shorter race in December and having a good crack at trying to improve my 5k or 10k PB. Will definitely be doing the Raheny 5 in January, and am considering the Connemara half in April.

There's also the waterford half in December ... although you are pretty far from it.

Mr Marenghi

kennyb3 wrote: »

can i ask you about this, just wondering why you think that? this is not aimed at you or anybody here specifically but just thinking about yesterday and perhaps more experienced marathoners will post - but just from looking at predicted times from a range of people to what they got on the day and reading the reports, it seems alot of people cracked at 18 or 20 miles, yet people do this distance in training - fair enough cracking at 23 to 24 miles. for me the big issue is surely pace. doing long runs at a slower pace but then on the day you go faster so you crack earlier. i know why lsr are done at a slower pace - i.e recovery and not breaking down the body but i think doing them too slow can also be detrimental - i guess striking a balance is key. i.e 1st half at plus 10% of PMP and 2nd half at PMP.

My 20 miler took 3hrs 20mins, so I did do 20 miles, but the longest my body was running for was 3hrs 20, not 4hrs. 40 mins might not seem like much but it really did yesterday.
They key is slower long runs, and about 3 20 mile runs i think, maybe even a longer run than 20. I dunno how this would fit into a schedule but I really feel I would have benefited from them yesterday. Do the LSR's at the right pace and then also work on speedwork in other runs might work ? - im no expert

One main thing about the marathon was that it was far far different from what I expected. It's hard to explain but it really is so big, such a large thing - hopefully whoever else has done one will know what I mean.

Also the Novice I plan, it really is to just get you over the line, to finish your first marathon. I think that if anybody wants to run it well, or have a target then they needed to be training harder than this. I had a target yesterday and I feel although I was happy, I probably would have enjoyed it more towards the end if I was slower.

goofygirl

Yeah the long runs deffo paid off. I did one 16 miler, two 18 milers and a 20 miler and did all those at generally around 10:30 min/pace. Yesterday I ran at 9:48 min/miles and what I think I'm most delighted about is that my pace was consistent the whole way around, the last six miles were at pretty much the same pace (give or take a few seconds, I actually finished up faster?!) as any other six mile segment from the race and even managed a negative split :eek:

I think the speedwork I was doing every week also helped (disclaimer: I know I'm still really slow and can claim no sort of running authority) in terms not so much of making me fast (I'm not) but in terms of getting used to experiencing great pain while running. I hated doing the 800m or 1600m repeats, every week I'd think "holy Jesus I can't get through this" but well, talk is cheap.

To be honest, no matter how much training I put in I doubt I'd ever really get much faster, I just sort of feel like that's my natural pace and even though I'm DEFINITELY going to do more marathons, it's not really to get the pace down. I absolutely loved doing the long runs, in fact the cheerful exhaustion I felt last night (and today) is simply a magnified version of what I felt when I'd run 16 miles, 18 miles, 20 miles etc for the first time during training. I simply can't imagine not going through the training cycle again.

In fact, I don't want to go back to Canada tomorrow because I'm thinking "awww, there'll be snow everywhere, I won't be able to run" when I should be thinking "hooray, there'll be snow everywhere, I'll be able to ski soon!". I'm sure one or two good skiing days will soon knock that out of me though!!

scottreynolds

goofygirl wrote: »

I think the speedwork I was doing every week also helped (disclaimer: I know I'm still really slow and can claim no sort of running authority) in terms not so much of making me fast (I'm not) but in terms of getting used to experiencing great pain while running.

I think this is pretty much on the money -- I missed alot of 'speed workouts' during my training while making sure I was still doing the long miles. my legs gave out about 20 miles and i started getting cramps. here's to much more speed work next time....

Oh, and you can go faster next time....

Sub430

Well that was a piece of p1ss, wasn't it?
No idea what all the fuss was about.
Next year I may wear a blindfold.

Next year, yeah right, you can stick that up right your..

What an utterly hellish experience, I knew it would be hard but not spirit crushingly mind bendingly hard.

The first three miles were enjoyable even though I had to take a leak on Lower Leeson street with about 30 seconds gone, took me back to simpler purer more virginal times

Miles 3 to 13 were bearable, a lot of energy trying to block out the blister that was quickly forming on my foot - or was it a blister or was there a stone in my shoe or was my mind playing tricks. Oh dear Jesus only half way and I'm starting to lose the plot.

Belted on from miles 13 to 15, promised myself the ipod at mile 13 so the next 2 miles were grand until every song on the ipod started to grate. It felt like all my favourite tunes had been stolen and replaced with the biggest pile of drivel known to man.

15 to 18 passed in a bit of a blur, I did have some light relief as along the way I passed a guy I knew standing outside his house smoking a cigarette. It took us a while to recognise each other but his double take was priceless, slackjawed, fag stuck to his bottom lip until he remembered my name and shouted something along the lines of "Gwan ya mad thing". The last time I saw this individual was in Ibiza in 2000 when our idea of a marathon was clubbing for the night and then surviving Space the next day.

I don't know if I hit the wall, no elephant fell on me but I think someone was throwing bricks at me, some I dodged, some hit home. The first one to connect sweetly was around 19.5 miles when my right leg stopped working, for a while it felt like it was going to sleep but then it just stopped, some other runner had stolen my leg and given me his. It was leaden, I tried to run but the toes of my right shoe were just dragging off the ground. Of course then the mind started again, "oh here it is, here's Mr Wall, it's gonna spread to your left leg soon and you'll have to crawl the rest of the way". This was my first time to stop, I stretched, massaged (punched) my leg and then hobbled a la Kaiser Soze to the UCD gates. Here the real madness began:

"What if I take a short cut through UCD?"
"Could I get a taxi?"
"Will someone lend me a bike?"

The real fear of actually giving up stayed with me for a while, this while seemed like a lifetime but looking back in the clear light of day I only had serious doubts from Clonskeagh to Fosters Avenue so about a mile all in. From here to the finish I had to adopt a walk/run strategy walking 9 more times then trying to run as fast as I could.

(edit : actually reading back on this post, it doesn't seem that bad )

The result : Finished in 4h18 - happy with that just didn't enjoy getting there!
Miles 1-19 all under 10 mins
Slowest mile was 19-20 in 11m10secs,
20 -26 ranged from 9:53 to 10:40

I suppose the main lesson learned was you cannot skip/miss your long runs if you want to do yourself justice in the marathon, you can complete it and in a respectable (subjective) time but you will not enjoy it. I know this knowledge isn't ground breaking as I have read it here many time before but it is so true. My longest run was 18 miles and that was around 8 weeks ago, with longer runs I would be confident of breaking 4 hours. Yesterday there was no chance I would ever do another one, this morning it was 80:20 against, at the start of this post the odds were against it but now having seen the Garmin data and realised it wasn't as bad as it seemed...

Sorry to have missed you all in the after race meet up, I was strong armed down to O'Donoghues, 6 pints later and a pizza in Millers, I was fit for bed and nothing else.

I would also like to say a HUGE thanks to --amadeus-- (proper respect for the man hence he gets his full name ) and the rest of the allstars, it was the constant dedication and persistence of you guys that helped get me through. Sub 345 mentored thread next year anyone??

Also thanks to all the supporters, you were BRILLIANT.

18 weeks ago I could barely run 6 miles. Yesterday I ran a marathon, seriously, anybody reading this who is thinking of doing a marathon just
go for it, it could be horrendous, it will hurt but crossing that finish line was one of the proudest moments of my life.
If I can do it, YOU can do it.