DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

--amadeus--

menoscemo wrote: »

65 Resting HR seems a bit high, you should take it after a prolonged period of inactivity. (mine is 45-50)
I am guessing a lot in my methods and am no expert. I am a newbie too!! I know that a lot of websites say to do LSR at 60-65% HR, but for me that would mean walking I Would run 5 mile race at about 167-170 Avg HR (8 minute miles) so for me 150-155 is comfortable for LSR's. Before I was doing all runs at about 160-165 bpm which I have realised is unsubsatinable. At the moment I am doing 8"45-9"15 minute miles at 150-155 HR. I have heard as a rule of thumb you should be able to chat on your LSR's which I can. I am concentrating on keeping the HR in the same area and hoping that my pace increases as I Train more, which thankfully it is.

I will wait for amadeus to come along and tell me if I am doing it right, as I say i am a marathon Newbie too actually I am following this thread a lot. I also hope to become one of Amadeus' Allstars , it is just that I have pushed ahead with my HH progamme and am currently finishing week 9. The reason being that I am going off for a month at the end of July, so when i come back at the end of August I hope to rejoin you all back at week 10 again.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Resting HR (RHR) - mine is in the mid 60s usually for example. It will drop as you get fitter but and generally the lower the better but it's just a number and not the most important one.

What is of critical importance is your available heart range or heart rate reserve (HRR) - the difference between your resting HR and your max HR. If you have a RHR of 70 and a max HR of 200 then you have a HRR of 130. IE you have 130 "extra" beats available for work. If on the other hand your RHR is 50 but your max is 150 you only have 100 "extra" beats and so work in a narrower range. Working only off your RHR can therefore give you a distorted picture. Where RHR is important is that Max HR won't alter a huge amount with training but RHR will so thats how you improve your HRR.

And don't depend on 220-age for your Max HR, test it properly. It can be a lot higher or lower.

But seriously, please do not get hung up on this stuff. It's very technical and great for improving performance but it's not a must have.

colblimp wrote: »

I've only just spotted this thread and thought I'd post.

I want to finish in sub 3:30, this being my first ever marathon.

My current PB's are:

5k - 20:08
4 miles - 26:58
10k - 43:37
10 miles - 1:14:08

When I'm not injured (I am at the moment ), I run 5 - 6 days and average between 30 - 40 miles per week. My LSR is currently at 14 miles. I'm looking at using this programme: http://www.runrepublic.ie/training/marathon.htm#sub330

Is this programme adequate enough to bring me home in under 3:30 and, going on my PB's and current mileage, do I stand any chance at all of achieving my goal?

Hi Col - you might be better talking to Peckham, he's mentoring a bunch of people to a sub 4 and this thread is really aimed at novices and the 4:30 paced people. His thread is here, but feel free to hang round here if you want!

Speaking of which... We may end up with more people looking to join in. What's the groups general feeling - more teh merrier or will that dilute the mentoring aspect?

Schedule for teh week to follow...

--amadeus--

Right then, check in time. How did you all get on, quote and remove the

tags to leave teh tabe editable for everyone else!

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|||
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|||

--amadeus--

And now the bit you've all been waiting for!

Plan for the week is:

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3 m run|3 m with 3*100m strides|3 m run|rest|cross|7


As always this is Novice I - there is a tougher Novice II - and full details as well as descriptions of teh sessions are available here. the only change is that I've incorporated a few Strides into the midweek session.

Basically this is a re-run of week 1, with an extra mile on the LSR. We're still base-building so no crazy speed sessions, just a few gentle strides. Take your time, keep the sessions relaxed and yell with questions!

rainbow kirby

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|2 (so far)|8 (+13.1 tomorrow)|Tapering for HM
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|||


Skipped one run this week due to spending a lot of time travelling to an interview, stretched one out, and did one on a different day. HM tomorrow though... panic time! :eek::D

--amadeus--

Good luck with the half!!

Munster_Gal

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|2 (so far)|8 (+13.1 tomorrow)|Tapering for HM
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|||
Munster_Gal|3 so far|9 (+6 mile today)|Still finding it hard but I'll get there

Bally8

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|2 (so far)|8 (+13.1 tomorrow)|Tapering for HM
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|3 so far|9 (+6 mile today)|Still finding it hard but I'll get there

rainbow kirby

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|3 so far|9 (+6 mile today)|Still finding it hard but I'll get there


Edited

Munster_Gal

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|||
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there


Edited

osnola ibax

Will hopefully update tomorrow, am absolutely broke up after stag weekend, help, smoked about one million cigs aswell. Hardly ideal preparation. Seriously help! Rhr is about 140 these days

osnola ibax

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there


Happy with the week but then effectively ruined it by doing the absolute dog on it at 3 day stag party. Dont mind the dringking so much as the smoking, I havent smoked since January and when I started training for the wexford half. Raging but as I think Oryx said previously, just gotta pick myself up again and get back on track. Think I'll actually do a 3 miler today.

By the way congrats to oryx and rainbow kirby on their stunning performances in the multi marathon. I'm delighted for you both.

Just want to say thanks to amadeus aswell, you are doing a great job, this kind of advice is really invaluable for me. Cheers!

Sub430

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|4|19.5|forced myself out in the rain for the LSR - dedication's what you neeeeed...||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there




Also happy with the week though felt it in my legs on Thursday evening, think I may have run Thursday too quickly, will slow Tuesday and Thursday runs this week and see what happens.

Hamstrings very tight coming to end of LSR (8 miles), need to incorporate more stretching but hate it. I always had problems pulling hamstrings playing football so I suppose I need to cop on and include regular stretching even though reading the forums, the jury is out on stretching...any advice?

Is cross training important? Does an hour mowing the grass count??

Used my Garmin for the first time, 1091 calories burned on the long run, 5000 calories consumed at an American bbq last night!

As for more joining - why not? Safety in numbers and all that!

goofygirl

em can i get my name on that table please? I'm such a technophobe that i don't know how to do that...

abi2007

Me too! can somebody add me please

rainbow kirby

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|4|19.5|forced myself out in the rain for the LSR - dedication's what you neeeeed...||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there
Goofygirl|||
Abi2007|||


There ya go

goofygirl

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|4|19.5|forced myself out in the rain for the LSR - dedication's what you neeeeed...||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there
Goofygirl|4|18|Following the Novice 1 schedule, was only meant to run 6 miles for long run but weather so beautiful couldn't stop and kept going for 9...
Abi2007|||

abi2007

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|4|19.5|forced myself out in the rain for the LSR - dedication's what you neeeeed...||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|||
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there
Goofygirl|4|18|Following the Novice 1 schedule, was only meant to run 6 miles for long run but weather so beautiful couldn't stop and kept going for 9...
Abi2007|1|10.9|





;-)

abi2007

thanks

--amadeus--

Sub430 wrote: »

Hamstrings very tight coming to end of LSR (8 miles), need to incorporate more stretching but hate it. I always had problems pulling hamstrings playing football so I suppose I need to cop on and include regular stretching even though reading the forums, the jury is out on stretching...any advice?

Is cross training important? Does an hour mowing the grass count??

Stretching, meh... I never bother before or after a run myself but I've always been "shockingly inflexible" (as a physio once put it). Those who do it swear by it those who don't think it's a waste of time. As you say the jury is out, but if you have a history of hamstring trouble then you should look out for it. Maybe doing specific hamstring strengthening work might be of more benefit though?

Cross training? According to the principal of Specificity of training the best training you can do for running is running. However a lot of beginners struggle with the mileage demands so a lot of novice programs build in cross training to build CV fitness / core strength or whatever (or as active recovery) without teh strains of an extra days running.
Is it important? Not as much as running but it's better than couch surfing!

rainbow kirby

Would it be ok to do a short run on the cross-training day of the program then, given that I was running 5 days a week already on my half training program?

--amadeus--

Yes yes yes yes yes!

The more running you do the better. Keep it short, keep it light but by all means run. Just make sure you include enough recovery time in your week.

osnola ibax

--amadeus-- wrote: »

And now the bit you've all been waiting for!

Plan for the week is:

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3 m run|3 m with 3*100m strides|3 m run|rest|cross|7


As always this is Novice I - there is a tougher Novice II - and full details as well as descriptions of teh sessions are available here. the only change is that I've incorporated a few Strides into the midweek session.

Basically this is a re-run of week 1, with an extra mile on the LSR. We're still base-building so no crazy speed sessions, just a few gentle strides. Take your time, keep the sessions relaxed and yell with questions!

Just wanted to set out my plan for the week here:

Today: 5.1 miles done
Tuesday: 3.2
Wednesday: 5.7
Thursday : 3.2
Friday: nada
saturday: 5
Sunday: lsr 9
total for the week : 31.1

McConkey

Feel like I'm slipping here already....only got 2x3.1 miles in last week and another 3.1 miles tonight. Worried about my right leg again, tight and painful right ankle area and I'm more than a bit worried about the half marathon on Sat in Achill. Will be a slow one for me I'm afraid....petrified that the arch in my foot will tear again :eek: for now, I'm icing it again and have started with the ibuprofen, in the hope that that and some stretches will keep the arch in one piece. Four miles/3 miles tomorrow then 2 Wed then rest on Thurs and drive to Achill Fri....please God let it rain on Sat morning....pretty please

Munster_Gal

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Stretching, meh... I never bother before or after a run myself but I've always been "shockingly inflexible" (as a physio once put it). Those who do it swear by it those who don't think it's a waste of time. As you say the jury is out, but if you have a history of hamstring trouble then you should look out for it. Maybe doing specific hamstring strengthening work might be of more benefit though?

Woo Hoo..... I'm not the biggest fan of stretching! Glad to see that I'm not the only one that couldn't be bothered

--amadeus--

McConkey - be very careful. If you feel you are that close to breaking down is it even smart to be thinking about the half?

Not everyone has teh biomechanics for endurance running - a fiend of mine did a few halves and ran Paris in 4:xx (under 4:30, can't rem exact time) but has had to drop down to 10k distances now as his hips are out of alignment and he gets injured if he goes any further. If you get injured every time you step up the distances you may need to consider if this really is the sport for you? As always get medical advice, find and treat the root cause. There really is no point in nursing it along in the hope things will improve.

Oryx

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles|Comments
Sub430|4|19.5|forced myself out in the rain for the LSR - dedication's what you neeeeed...||
Rainbow|3|21.1|13.1 miles in 2:17... hot and humid!
Mr Marenghi|||
osnola ivax|5|26.2|really happy with this weeks mileage and lsr
McConkey|||
triangle|||
oryx|4|24.3|Half mara on Sunday, happy with time.
Arcee|||
Bally 8|5 (4 runs +1 cross training 4 mile walk)|19.2|Good first week but Im walking round like a woman of 90
Munster_Gal|4|15 total|Still finding it hard but I'll get there
Goofygirl|4|18|Following the Novice 1 schedule, was only meant to run 6 miles for long run but weather so beautiful couldn't stop and kept going for 9...
Abi2007|1|10.9|


Is there a plan up for this week?

--amadeus--

Oryx wrote: »

Is there a plan up for this week?

Oh ye of little faith...

--amadeus-- wrote: »

And now the bit you've all been waiting for!

Plan for the week is:

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3 m run|3 m with 3*100m strides|3 m run|rest|cross|7


As always this is Novice I - there is a tougher Novice II - and full details as well as descriptions of teh sessions are available here. the only change is that I've incorporated a few Strides into the midweek session.

Basically this is a re-run of week 1, with an extra mile on the LSR. We're still base-building so no crazy speed sessions, just a few gentle strides. Take your time, keep the sessions relaxed and yell with questions!

Oryx

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Oh ye of little faith...

Dang. I speed read and thought that was for last week. Apologies, my brain is still toast after Sunday.

Edit, just reading about the strides reminded me, when I was running on Sunday, I noticed a few guys literally running on their toes, heels never got close to the ground. I have heard of that style of running but it looked almost uncomfortable to me. Couldnt imagine doing it. What is the benefit of developing that style of running?

Triangle

Hey all,
I've been out for the last few weeks - I'm just starting to run again but i'm down to 2 mile runs atm (Physio's orders)

As soon as I've been given the go ahead i'll be back chasing ye again

Bally8

--amadeus-- wrote: »

And now the bit you've all been waiting for!

Plan for the week is:

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3 m run|3 m with 3*100m strides|3 m run|rest|cross|7


As always this is Novice I - there is a tougher Novice II - and full details as well as descriptions of teh sessions are available here. the only change is that I've incorporated a few Strides into the midweek session.

Basically this is a re-run of week 1, with an extra mile on the LSR. We're still base-building so no crazy speed sessions, just a few gentle strides. Take your time, keep the sessions relaxed and yell with questions!

I'm going to try the strides tomorrow for the first time. There is a GAA field nearby on which I could try do them but if I cant is it possible at all to do strides on a treadmill? Or how do I measure 100m on the road when my car is in miles?