Do you still think of the War?

hinault

Agricola wrote: »

I have enough to get by. Did it in school and then for a year in a college course that I dropped.

Im a pacifist so I didnt want to take issue! I later remembered that it was actually the same day as the Germany v England game in the World Cup. So maybe saying something like "kommen auf England" would have been apt. Christ, backing the English against ze Germans. Now thats a rock and a hard place!

I'm not suggesting that you should have got in to a fight with these guys.

But a comment back to them uttered in German, would make them think twice that they could get away with mocking our country and assuming that no one could understand them.

Call it keeping them on their toes.

I would have.


It reminds me of the time when I was in Rome with my wife.
We were in a restaurant and we exchanged a few words with three German people from Berlin (1 bloke, 2 women).
The bloke started to get a bit thick, saying that I wasn't pronoucing my "th's" properly.
I said "oh really"
"Yes, you don't pronounce the word "think" correctly" he said.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I speak clearly and correctly.
I suggested to him that in fact it was his hearing that was at fault and that he really ought to stick to speaking German.

With that he cursed in German and I replied in German saying that I understood exactly what he had just said and that if his women
weren't with him, I'd have taken him outside and kicked 7 colours of ****e out of him.

the look on his face when he realised that I understood what he said was comical!

brummytom

In response to the original question: Yes I do.

Well as the war ended 16 years before I was born, I don't think about it much. But where I was growing up in England, there were still plenty of signs that the war happened around!
For example the air raid sirens were still in use, the "all clear" was used to call the firemen to the station.

Bomb site car parks and streets with gaps where houses used to stand were still common in the 1960s. (there are one or two areas of London still like that!)

Pill boxes and the remains of defences all over the place, made great playgrounds.

As for Germans, I don'r really associate those born after the war with Nazi's, unless they get a bit arrogant for some reason.

Sanjuro

BaZmO* wrote: »

The reason why you still associate modern day Germans with the Nazi's is because of the obsession English TV & Filmakers seem to have with the War. Look at the Discovery Channel any day and you'll see at least one Documentary about the War.

Yeah, feel the same way about sharks. Bastards.

steddyeddy

Well what the nazis done was unforgettable in fairness it it certainly wouldnt be good for history to ignore it, I personally have nothing against the germans but i can understand if the jewish people do.

Minstrel27

scientific1982 wrote: »

Sometimes though I do wonder how such evil could have been supported by so many people in that country.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority didn't know about the holocaust until after the war.

Agricola wrote: »

Was recently on the Airlink bus from Dublin airport into the city centre. Around 6 young German fellas in their mid 20's sat behind me for the journey. They basically spent the duration of the trip taking the piss out of the country they has just arrived in.

You were on a bus with morons. In German you should have asked them why they didn't piss off back to the airport if they didn't like it.

steddyeddy

Minstrel27 wrote: »

I am willing to bet that the vast majority didn't know about the holocaust until after the war.

Well in fainress man a lot of germans were fiercly anti semitic and even when most of the country found out about the holocaust people like oscar schindler and other jewish sympathisers recieved death threats and were spat at in the streets.

Faith+1

Following my post earlier, I would just like to confirm that I wasn't denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I was simply stating that the 6 Million figure was a complete exaggeration of the true figure. I was hoping that people would at least research the true figures and not believe it's 6 million simply because we're told so.
Thanks Biko.:)

ejmaztec

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well in fainress man a lot of germans were fiercly anti semitic and even when most of the country found out about the holocaust people like oscar schindler and other jewish sympathisers recieved death threats and were spat at in the streets.

I think that many non-Germans were also anti-semitic, but the Nazis took it the next level.

The Waltzing Consumer

I do not think of WWII when I think of Germany or when I meet German people. I worked and lived with Germans and it never once crossed my mind.

I enjoy reading about WWII, but it never made me hate or dislike Germany. When it comes to treatment of Jewish people, it is important to note that many countries actively collaborated with Nazi's in getting rid of their Jewish population. This includes France, Slovakia, Channel Islands (British), Poland and others. It is amazing that so many countries assisted the Nazis willingly, even paying them to take Jews away, whilst so few (Denmark saved the vast vast majority of its Jews) resisted and acted honorably.

The Waltzing Consumer

Faith+1 wrote: »

Following my post earlier, I would just like to confirm that I wasn't denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I was simply stating that the 6 Million figure was a complete exaggeration of the true figure. I was hoping that people would at least research the true figures and not believe it's 6 million simply because we're told so.
Thanks Biko.:)

Out of curiosity, what is the true figure of Jews that died, in your opinion? Can I ask you what you base this on too?

ejmaztec

Faith+1 wrote: »

Following my post earlier, I would just like to confirm that I wasn't denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I was simply stating that the 6 Million figure was a complete exaggeration of the true figure. I was hoping that people would at least research the true figures and not believe it's 6 million simply because we're told so.
Thanks Biko.:)

There was a long discussion about the "numbers" on the WW2 forum a while ago, where I think the figure had been re-calculated by some as more like 2 or 3 million.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055613776

steddyeddy

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that many non-Germans were also anti-semitic, but the Nazis took it the next level.

That is very true including some irish people i have met.

karma_

Just how does it happen that a person born 30, or 40 years after teh event would think of the War when Germany was mentioned? Says something about the person I'd venture.

ejmaztec

karma_ wrote: »

Just how does it happen that a person born 30, or 40 years after teh event would think of the War when Germany was mentioned? Says something about the person I'd venture.

Probably because there have been about 50000 WW2 movies and TV programmes spewed out since 1945, covering the Holocaust and every other WW2 scenario known to mankind.

Dionysus

Confab wrote: »

No. It ended 64 years ago. Germans are in general pleasant and funny people, they have the best country in Europe and I have no problem with them. We'd be in the sh!t without them.

Well said. In fact, the Germans are taking far too much shít from far too many people and countries entirely because of WWII. I feel for them.

The Irish, Greeks and the rest of these cowboy economies are being bailed out by German taxpayers after decades of German subsidies. All that money would no doubt do much good in communities across Germany. But successive German governments keep redirecting their citizens' hard-earned taxes into ethically-challenged, inefficient and politically immature societies like Greece, Portugal and Ireland. If I were German I'd be fairly pissed off at this transfer of wealth to countries which refuse to reform their management.

The sooner ever cent given to Ireland is accounted for to the people who give it to us and the sooner we have tax harmonisation across the EU the better. Bring on German efficiency, German technology and German work ethic. At the moment all the Irish state's servants can do is copy another failed economic model, that of the boom-to-bust British model. The same people who support this model then say we are giving up our "sovereignty" to the EU. The current situation undermines both Irish sovereignty and Irish independence; at least with following the German model rather than British model we'll get much better quality, efficiency, watchdogs and results. It's not rocket science: Irish legislation and standards should be following the best, not one of the runners-up.

Agricola

karma_ wrote: »

Just how does it happen that a person born 30, or 40 years after teh event would think of the War when Germany was mentioned? Says something about the person I'd venture.

Or something about how many times WW2 documentaries are shown on satellite TV!

Sofiztikated

True story:

The day the Polish president & cabinet died in that plane crash, I was chatting to the German bar manager in work, while having a smoke, and she said to me,

"You know, with no Polish cabinet, we could just walk in and take it over,"

:eek:

It was said in jest though, as we had a bit of a laugh (as much as you can about such a sad event)

I likes the Germans. Except the arsehole ones. Same as any nationality. The cool ones are grand, the arseholes are going not going to be on my Christmas card list.

Agricola

Dionysus wrote: »

The sooner ever cent given to Ireland is accounted for to the people who give it to us and the sooner we have tax harmonisation across the EU the better. Bring on German efficiency, German technology and German work ethic. At the moment all the Irish state's servants can do is copy another failed economic model, that of the boom-to-bust British model. The same people who support this model then say we are giving up our "sovereignty" to the EU. The current situation undermines both Irish sovereignty and Irish independence; at least with following the German model rather than British model we'll get much better quality, efficiency, watchdogs and results. It's not rocket science: Irish legislation and standards should be following the best, not one of the runners-up.

And to think afew short years ago we were up in arms about those pesky Europeans running our affairs. Shure we're so much more better off being managed from Dublin! :rolleyes:

Abit of German prudence wouldnt have gone amiss during the Tiger years.

aDeener

Sofiztikated wrote: »

True story:

The day the Polish president & cabinet died in that plane crash, I was chatting to the German bar manager in work, while having a smoke, and she said to me,

"You know, with no Polish cabinet, we could just walk in and take it over,"

:eek:

It was said in jest though, as we had a bit of a laugh (as much as you can about such a sad event)

I likes the Germans. Except the arsehole ones. Same as any nationality. The cool ones are grand, the arseholes are going not going to be on my Christmas card list.

ah yeah for old times sake

steddyeddy

Agricola wrote: »

And to think afew short years ago we were up in arms about those pesky Europeans running our affairs. Shure we're so much more better off being managed from Dublin! :rolleyes:

Abit of German prudence wouldnt have gone amiss during the Tiger years.

i would have replied well look how you got on last time!

thetonynator

ejmaztec wrote: »

Probably because there have been about 50000 WW2 movies and TV programmes spewed out since 1945, covering the Holocaust and every other WW2 scenario known to mankind.

Well inglorius basterds is a pretty brilliant film!! most of them actually are . .. so something good came out of the war!!!

ejmaztec

thetonynator wrote: »

Well inglorius basterds is a pretty brilliant film!! most of them actually are . .. so something good came out of the war!!!

I thought that movie was sh1t.:(

Fratton Fred

karma_ wrote: »

Just how does it happen that a person born 30, or 40 years after teh event would think of the War when Germany was mentioned? Says something about the person I'd venture.

It does, the war is over and the war was with Nazi Germany, not the Germany of today.

However, maybe less so in Ireland than the rest of Europe, but people should not be allowed to forget. I stopped at Vimy on the way back from Paris the other week and that is a great testimony to man's inhumanity towards other men.

I've never met a German I didn't like and to be honest I think more about how good the bastards are at taking penalties than the war.

Paddy Samurai

ejmaztec wrote: »

I thought that movie was sh1t.:(

Apart from the opening scene with Christoph Waltz it was.

As for op thinking of the war/nazis when seeing germans no way,i have been going to Germany for a number of years and i love it over there.
As other posts have already said,germans are great craic and very friendly.

Dudess

I fupping adore that movie - and didn't think I would.

Truley wrote: »

That's debatable, who decides what's the most important episode of human history. Just as many people, no actually, more people were killed during Mao's regime in China. Or what about the Rawandan Genocide that wiped out 20% of the entire country in the space of a few months? Ask a young woman in Dafur if she thinks the holocaust was the most significant thing to happen in the history of the world.

I agree that too much emphasis is put on Nazi Germany and the war in the school curriculum. The first world war is completely overlooked, as is post war Europe. Or anything outside of Europe for that matter. This is why so many people are left with such a skewed perspective on what happened. The huge emphasis the media and the film industry place on it doesn't really help.

The (sad) reality is it's just a minor glitch in the greater scheme of things.

I agree with much of what you're saying - it's so true that WWI (with an utterly devastating casualty count) is overshadowed by WWII, plus the others you have listed, and also Stalin's purges, Cambodia, and what was done to the Chinese by the Japanese state during WWII... I think it's a bit unfair though to describe WWII as a minor glitch.

karlog wrote: »

With the amount of documentary's on discovery channel, it's hard not to think of it.

Lol - my dad's a junkie of those type channels, they're always on when I visit home. Wouldn't be existence if it wasn't for WWII!

No I certainly don't immediately think of WWII when I talk to a German person, but discussion can sometimes gravitate towards how history is taught in schools there, the national sense of shame etc. I personally find the above very interesting. And ludicrous that people born in e.g. the 70s are made to feel guilty for it.

peasant

Dudess wrote: »

...discussion can sometimes gravitate towards how history is taught in schools there, the national sense of shame etc. I personally find the above very interesting. And ludicrous that people born in e.g. the 70s are made to feel guilty for it.

The world would certainly be a better place if more nations felt some sort of collective guilt and shame for what their fathers or grandfathers generation has done in recent history.

But then again ..the learning of lessons apparently only applies to the losers in major conflicts.

K-9

Agricola wrote: »

It would be hard to imagine a group of Irish guys landing in Poland for example and passing the time on their first bus trip, loudly bashing everything in sight.

Anyway, to answer the OP, no I dont think about the war, but people like this don't do anything to dispell the stereotypes.

I could imagine Irish people doing it no bother.

There's another thread on here about American attitudes on Irish people. They don't make up these type of generalisations.

Stereotypes don't get dispelled, that's why they always live on.

Killer Pigeon

You know, people should look at Americans and the British in terms of 'wariness' and 'genocidalness' as they do the Germans. I mean didn't the US kill more Indians than the Germans killed Jews?

Capt'n Midnight

Faith+1 wrote: »

Following my post earlier, I would just like to confirm that I wasn't denying that the Holocaust ever happened. I was simply stating that the 6 Million figure was a complete exaggeration of the true figure. I was hoping that people would at least research the true figures and not believe it's 6 million simply because we're told so.
Thanks Biko.:)

Half the non-combatants killed weren't Jewish,
in some of the camps the majority of the guards weren't German
the Japanese probably killed as many

but it's all to distract us from the other wars, which don't get as much coverage. Korea is still the forgotten war. And how much attention did the wars in the Congo get, despite the millions who died there ?

axer

Agricola wrote: »

It would be hard to imagine a group of Irish guys landing in Poland for example and passing the time on their first bus trip, loudly bashing everything in sight.

You must have a very high opinion of our population. I can easily imagine it since I have heard a similiar incident from a group of Irish people on a train in Germany.

aDeener wrote: »

That's where it would have been hilarious to ask them why they were even here considering we have such a small jewish population. that would have shut the pricks up. :pac:

Why? because they were part of the Nazis?

Whats with all the anti-german sentiment on this thread? Do people not realise that the majority of Germans around today had nothing to do with the Nazi's or what happened 60/70 years ago. The way people are talking here you would assume we were not supporters of the Nazis in a number of ways.

Lone Stone

*ponders what the world be like today if they won*

Im sure i saw an episode of slider's where the nazi's won.

K-9

Germany, through the EU, has played an instrumental part in dragging this country out of the middle ages.

Though a sizeable, vociferous minority do seem to want to bring us back there!

VinnyTGM

Yes I do think of WWII when I talk to a German, the same happens when I talk to an Italian and a Japanese person.

And when I talk to Spanish, French and English people I always have this sense of caution over what they did to the native Americans when they first sailed there 100's of years ago.

And look what happened to the Greeks back with the Persian empire.

Capt'n Midnight

Lone Stone wrote: »

*ponders what the world be like today if they won*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_%28novel%29#Greater_German_Reich_and_international_politics

Papa_Lazarou

The tour guide i had for the Dachau concentration camp summed it up pretty well i think.

He said "the youth and the new generations of Germans will never forget and will never be allowed forget what happened but that they are finished forgiving for what happened so long ago" I cant agree with this any more to be honest. The German people are the nicest crowd ive ever met...heading back over in three weeks in fact.

Coriolanus

I wish more people studied WW2 history properly. While yes, Germany and Japan commited reprehensible crimes againsts humanity, the Allies also indiscrimately attacked civilian population and infrastructure.
Life is very much shades of grey rather than black and white and if people are going to insist on holding the crimes of Germany against the current population then they should be doing the same with the firebombings and the use of atomic weapons.

Dudess

peasant wrote: »

The world would certainly be a better place if more nations felt some sort of collective guilt and shame for what their fathers or grandfathers generation has done in recent history.

Do you not think that would set quite a dangerous precedent?

Norwayviking

peasant wrote: »

The world would certainly be a better place if more nations felt some sort of collective guilt and shame for what their fathers or grandfathers generation has done in recent history.

But then again ..the learning of lessons apparently only applies to the losers in major conflicts.

Well i can probably feel guilty on behalf of the vikings,but i dont think my grandfather have anything to feel guilty about, Germany invading Norway for 5 years.

Sisko

Nevore wrote: »

I wish more people studied WW2 history properly. While yes, Germany and Japan commited reprehensible crimes againsts humanity, the Allies also indiscrimately attacked civilian population and infrastructure.
Life is very much shades of grey rather than black and white and if people are going to insist on holding the crimes of Germany against the current population then they should be doing the same with the firebombings and the use of atomic weapons.

I know what your saying but the germans 'started it' so I think people generally trace all the bad things that happened in that war all the way back to them and the japanese.


Unlike ww1 where everyone started it.


also :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLIU2NI66w

Personally when dealing with a German, ww2 or hitler is at the back of my mind. But not in terms of 'this guy is responsible' but more of a getting ready to bite my tongue in case I offend him kinda way, while at the same time being massively tempted to talk about it with him. Its just the giant elephant in the room that no ones talking about kinda thing.

But its never ever a 'this guy is a nazi' as people seem to be thinking here. I really don't think that's the case for most people. Most people do see germans as friendly positive people and germany as a positive country. The reason ww2 pops into their heads the second the talk to a german is because instantly theres this big massive taboo subject thats entered the room. A subject that people talk about freely, when there isnt a german in the room.

I think theres very few people left in the world that hold any blame against modern germans for ww2. Cept maybe the israelis.

peasant

Dudess wrote: »

Do you not think that would set quite a dangerous precedent?

Precedent for what?

Germany after WWII drastically overhauled their constitiution and political system to prevent a similar ursupation of power as with the nazi party.
They changed their foreign policy (and the underlying mindset of the whole society) from that of beliegered nation surrounded by potential enemies fighting for survival to that of a peaceful nation looking for peace and closer co-ordination with it's neigbours.
When you look back at Germanies' history with its "arch enemy" France for example, it is just short of a miracle that these two nations are now the driving force behind the EU.

All this was driven by (among other things) a sense of guilt and shame and the wish not to let it happen again.

So, I don't think that's a dangerous precedent.

Dudess

Oh right, that's kinda different to what I thought you meant - I thought you meant it would be a good thing if people born a long time after the events held a sense of guilt and shame and apologetic tendencies for merely being born in the country.

peasant

Norwayviking wrote: »

Well i can probably feel guilty on behalf of the vikings,but i dont think my grandfather have anything to feel guilty about, Germany invading Norway for 5 years.

I don't think Norwegians have done anything to feel guilty for recently.

I do wonder though what today's world would look like if the US had a national guilty conscience (after the likes of Vietnam) instead of their shoot first - ask later attitude ...for example.

Norwayviking

peasant wrote: »

I don't think Norwegians have done anything to feel guilty for recently.

I do wonder though what today's world would look like if the US had a national guilty conscience (after the likes of Vietnam) instead of their shoot first - ask later attitude ...for example.

Well Vietnam i totally agree on,but it seems like they are going to get a another one on their conscience as well,Afghanistan.The new Vietnam.
Wonder what the story is there?

Capt'n Midnight

Nevore wrote: »

I wish more people studied WW2 history properly. While yes, Germany and Japan commited reprehensible crimes againsts humanity, the Allies also indiscrimately attacked civilian population and infrastructure.
Life is very much shades of grey rather than black and white and if people are going to insist on holding the crimes of Germany against the current population then they should be doing the same with the firebombings and the use of atomic weapons.

I wish more people knew that WWII didn't start with the German invasion of Poland. By 1938 Japan, China and Russia were already at war and most casualties were in these countries.

The war in western Europe was a side show, first there was the phoney war then a short campaign and then nothing much happened for years. Even after D day the majority of the fighting in Europe was on the Russian Front.

orourkeda

go on the fatherland

nullzero

If you go by the logic off all German's = Nazis then surley all Irish = Terrorists.
You can't judge an entire nation of people by the sins of the father so to speak.

Norwayviking

nullzero wrote: »

If you go by the logic off all German's = Nazis the surley all Irish = Terrorists.
You can't judge an entire nation of people by the sins of the father so to speak.

No absolutely right, all though i find it hard to believe my wife is a terrorist lol,
and why are we only focusing on the negative sides of the Germans.
The Germans are a rock solid people:some of the worlds finest scientist and engineers came from Germany.
The modern world wouldnt be the same if it wasnt for them.
Thats something to think about.

Celly Smunt

nullzero wrote: »

If you go by the logic off all German's = Nazis the surley all Irish = Terrorists.
You can't judge an entire nation of people by the sins of the father so to speak.

that is the biggest farce of a comment i think i've seen here

Jaafa

@pmcmahon

Hardly. While it may seem that there were a lot more Nazis in Germany relative to there population and that there were few Irish in the IRA, its important to remember that to a degree the population of Germany at the time, was 'brainwashed' (for lack of a better word).