I found a house We LOVE....I really want to buy...How can I get the best price???

Rayan

Is there any way you could rent the showhouse for a year or 2? Make the builder an offer.

~Trixiebelle~

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Trixi.....I'm reading this and all I keep saying/screaming is "DONT BUY"!


Seriously, 'Love' is a condition that causes us humans to act irrationally. The outcomes of this irrationality can have many consequences, in your case it will have a financial consequence.


I feel your pain, Im so ready to buy too, I hate renting but at the moment it makes more sense to rent...there is zero sense in buying and no offence but there is less then zero sense in buying in Wicklow Town...currently.


My home town in Tipp built like there was no tomorrow in a town with a population of less then 1000 during the last 7years, up until recently 3bed semi's were 250k+, however one horse has bolted and has gone to 169k but I know it still will not sell. Point is, nobody is buying...the result is the price will fall, please hold off and let your patience prevail.


If I ever met you I'd probably try shake some sense into you


To answer your question, you will get the best price by waiting.

haha!! i can pratically hear you shouting in my ear!!

Yeh, I take all your points on board and I think i will certainly not act in the next coming weeks, at least until the relaunch. I am so eager to see the asking price!! I certainly don't trust the EA's, nothing he said was on paper. I just cant believe that other FTB's in my area are buying so quickly and so close to the asking prices. It makes me feel like we are waiting for further massive drops that aren't going to happen!:o

~Trixiebelle~

Rayan wrote: »

Is there any way you could rent the showhouse for a year or 2? Make the builder an offer.

Not really Rayan, We are in CH, the rent is far cheaper than what we would pay the builder and he hasnt actually reduced the house prices, so he still has cards up his sleeves. Its not his last resort just yet.

~Trixiebelle~

Thoie wrote: »

Going back to the €50k worth of "extras".

I'd argue this figure down with him on a few points, the main one being with people traipsing in and out of the place for hours at a time, things like the flooring may need to replaced a lot sooner than you'd expect in a normal family home. All these things have been in there since at least September, so combine that with the possibility that if the heating in the place was off 5 days a week over the winter - soft furnishings like curtains *might* have got a bit damp. Items such as fridges/cookers/bathroom suites/tiles shouldn't be included in that €50k if they came as standard in all other houses in the estate.

As other people have said, €50k of extras sounds like a lot - I'd want a detailed list of what all these extras are, and then decide if they're worth it.

The appliances and flooring didnt come as standard in the other houses and they did get the garden landscaped, fitted wrought iron side gate, patio etc... They built a plasma in the wall and its fully furnished but i can't see 50k put in myself. The cost of everything has dropped and there is sales in every store. I certainly wouldnt pay 50k for second hand stuff!:eek:! The EA quoted a figure of 30k for the extras which is still crazy.

Its hard enough trying to strike a deal when it comes to buying a house but having to come up with a deal for the rig out thats in it?!

OK, im starting to see the light.....just a bit...

~Trixiebelle~

iguana wrote: »

You believe the house will fall to €90k less than you are willing to pay yet you don't want to wait? Would it make a difference if I point out that over the lifetime of a mortgage that €90k will cost you at least as much again in interest payments, probably more? Is it worth waiting another year or two for the sake of €180k?

When you say it back it does seem crazy....waiting is crap though.:(

I was thinking that we have really good savings so we could afford to sit out a loss for a year or 2 (we would be borrowing about 65%). The mortgage would be about the same as the rent. (sorry i dont want to start the "dead money" arguement!!:D). I know that we could get a better deal in the long term but its tempting just to think in the short and live for now.

iguana

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

When you say it back it does seem crazy....waiting is crap though.:(

It is crap, it's natural to want to settle into your own place. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses I like online and fantasising about living in them.:o I'm so angry about the stupid unsustainable boom that has caused this part of my life to be put on hold. But on the otherhand I think about how prices falling means each year I wait is 5 years off the end of my mortgage and I think it's worth the wait.

Pat Mustard

If you really want this house, as opposed to another house, and you want to get best value for money, then I think you should:

1. Talk directly to the developer rather than going through the estate agent, if possible. He may try to direct you back to the estate agent, but you are a buyer and this is a buyers' market.

2. Put yourself in the developer's position. He is probably wondering where his next few hundred grand is coming from, just to keep up his own loan repayments. He is more desperate to sell than you think that you are desperate to buy.

3. If you want to be in a good position to bargain, you should have as many options as possible. Therefore, you may need to consider what your alternatives are if you don't get this house for the right money. Maybe you should throw a few speculative bids on other houses, and see what happens.

The above apply if you really want this house. What you described about this house doesn't sound unique. It just sounds like the house met criteria that you have. There are going to be so many more houses for sale in one or two years, and they are going to be so much cheaper.

I think that the only way to really get good value on a house is to be totally objective about it. Being objective, now is a bad time to buy, but if you really have to, then decide on a price (consider what it will be worth in 2 years) and then stick to it. If they don't accept it, then you should move on.

stepbar

The best thing to do OP is to log on to CRO.ie and purchase the last set of accounts he filed. Pay particular notice to his creditors (particularly the bank debt) and the amount of money he has in Cash on the balance sheet. And then make an offer or better still wait a few months..... The price you've been quoted just sounds like madness.

Senna

Ok if your set on buying this house and you realise the possible/probable huge mistake your making, then the best course of action would be to negotiate a price for a non show house, preferably a very similar house (same aspect etc).

I would go back to the EA, tell them that you just cant afford the showhouse but you would be interested in putting in a bid for a different one in the same estate. Now you should start low with the other house bid and try and get it for at least 20k less than you would want to pay for the show house. If you do negotiate a good price for the other house, pay the booking deposit (make sure EA or solicitor keeps it, not developer) and get them to draw up contracts (but tell your solicitor to ignore them).
Once a few weeks have past, contact the EA again and tell them that you no longer want the house, as your heart was set on the showhouse, tell them you want the booking deposit back ASAP. This is an EA's and developers nightmare, not getting sales is one thing, but losing sales they think they have got is much worse.
Tell them that you would be willing to pay the negotiated price (for the normal house) plus 20k for the showhouse. I think this is the best course of action if you want the house now. At the moment they are putting a higher price on the showhouse because of the extras but also because they need the showhouse to use it to sell other houses in the estate, once you find the lowest price they would take for a non showhouse they will be more open to selling the show house if it means they might lose a sale.

~Trixiebelle~

iguana wrote: »

It is crap, it's natural to want to settle into your own place. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses I like online and fantasising about living in them.:o I'm so angry about the stupid unsustainable boom that has caused this part of my life to be put on hold. But on the otherhand I think about how prices falling means each year I wait is 5 years off the end of my mortgage and I think it's worth the wait.

hehe!! I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses too!!:D God, im so sad that the 1st thing i do when i come in for work is check daft and myhome for new properties! I so look forward to it! i really do stalk it!:)

I feel really angry about the whole situation too, even though we haven't bought, we still are suffering and paying for other peoples greed... sometimes it just feels like we are in a lose/lose situation. We always intended on doing things the "right" way, as in save a really good deposit and not borrow excessively. I think everything in this country is so unknown and buying would make us feel like we have more control of our own lives again, rather than trying to decifer what may happen in the future through the media and making our purchase off the back of it. If that makes any sense!!!...:P

I think thats a really great way of looking at things (every year you wait is 5 years off mortgage). I'm re-thinking this possible purchase.

Mugatu

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

hehe!! I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses too!!:D God, im so sad that the 1st thing i do when i come in for work is check daft and myhome for new properties! I so look forward to it! i really do stalk it!:)

I feel really angry about the whole situation too, even though we haven't bought, we still are suffering and paying for other peoples greed... sometimes it just feels like we are in a lose/lose situation. We always intended on doing things the "right" way, as in save a really good deposit and not borrow excessively. I think everything in this country is so unknown and buying would make us feel like we have more control of our own lives again, rather than trying to decifer what may happen in the future through the media and making our purchase off the back of it. If that makes any sense!!!...:P

I think thats a really great way of looking at things (every year you wait is 5 years off mortgage). I'm re-thinking this possible purchase.

I can't see why you would not try and offer the builder what you think the house will be worth in 2 years time? If you believe the house will fall another 20% factor that into your bid and see what happens. Who knows you might get the house you want, for a price it may or may not fall to in 2 years.

You can be sure that in 2 years time if you pop onto a board like this and ask the question should I buy now the same amount of people will say "Wait the perfect price is only months/ years away!!"

Best of luck with what you decide.

kingofthecastle

op i'd ask you to keep this in mind. it was the popular view only about 3 years ago that if you didnt buy then you'd never get on the property ladder.People were buying because they were afraid that they would'nt be able to afford to in the future.

Now it is the popular view that property prices will continue to decrease for another 2+ years. Just becasue its the popular view does not make it fact. in the same way the property boom was built on greed, the property slump is beginning to exhibit the same greed with investors staying out of the market in the hunt for the "bottoming out" price. ironically then when the market appears to be bottoming out the influx of those greedy investors pushes prices up again.

therefore, in my humble opinion the best time to buy is when the popular opinion says not to buy and when the immediate future market expectations are for house prices to continue to decrease

offer 20% less than the asking price and if you can afford an 80% mortgage then you should never have to worry about negative equity

SkepticOne

kingofthecastle wrote: »

therefore, in my humble opinion the best time to buy is when the popular opinion says not to buy and when the immediate future market expectations are for house prices to continue to decrease

offer 20% less than the asking price and if you can afford an 80% mortgage then you should never have to worry about negative equity

But the popular view that prices were going to continue to rise was there for at least five or six years before the market turned. Likewise the popular view currently that prices are going to continue to fall may also exist for five or six years.

There's still a lot of denial about and this is reflected in the low numbers of houses coming on to the market at present. Inventory is high not because of large numbers of people selling but because of the almost complete absence of buyers at present. We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

dny123456

SkepticOne wrote: »

We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

This event will probably never occur. For it to happen the banks would have had to force the hands of the developers. The banks no longer need to do this, since the guarantee. It is not in their interests for this to happen and they now have no necessity to force it. So, in short, it won't happen. It'll be a long long slow grind downwards from here on (10yrs+ imho). We've already had the major drop.

SkepticOne

Given the help they have given the party, the developers were always going to be looked after, but I was thinking more of the amateur buy-to-let landlords who made up a large percentage of those who purchased from the developers in the latter stages of the bubble.

gurramok

dny123456 wrote: »

This event will probably never occur. For it to happen the banks would have had to force the hands of the developers. The banks no longer need to do this, since the guarantee. It is not in their interests for this to happen and they now have no necessity to force it. So, in short, it won't happen. It'll be a long long slow grind downwards from here on (10yrs+ imho). We've already had the major drop.

I think SkepticOne is talking about primarily BTL's with mortgages, not developers. What you say doe snot affect them. What affects them is negative equity and if they can make a return on their investment among other things!

When these get hit en masse, expect the major drop to happen.

ixus

stepbar wrote: »

The best thing to do OP is to log on to CRO.ie and purchase the last set of accounts he filed. Pay particular notice to his creditors (particularly the bank debt) and the amount of money he has in Cash on the balance sheet. And then make an offer or better still wait a few months..... The price you've been quoted just sounds like madness.

I'd add to this; find out what other developments he has on the go and how they are doing. If you have a good relationship with your bank manager maybe see if he knows anything about the builder (who knows, maybe the builder owes the bank you are using and they're putting pressure on him).

Information is power here, and the EA has more info about you (you love the place and can buy) than you do about the builder.

gamer

Wait 2 weeks and get your solicitor to make an offer of 300 , 310 .IF theres lots of unsold houses on the estate you have a better chance.BUT you will have to pay a bit more 4 a showhouse, it depends on the builders financial state.WITH namma being set up,i think many buiders will wait and see can they get a better dea from namma.ITS prby worth 10 grand more than a standard house on the estate.

bobbiw

SkepticOne wrote: »

But the popular view that prices were going to continue to rise was there for at least five or six years before the market turned. Likewise the popular view currently that prices are going to continue to fall may also exist for five or six years.

There's still a lot of denial about and this is reflected in the low numbers of houses coming on to the market at present. Inventory is high not because of large numbers of people selling but because of the almost complete absence of buyers at present. We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

Prices will continue to fall for a long time. I really worry about ireland, its built on a house of cards, more people on this board were not working in the 80s.

That was not the time of a recession, that was the base line irish economy, it wasnt a resession, Ireland has never truely been in a recession until now. But it could just be the way the economy is going to be.

stepbar

ixus wrote: »

I'd add to this; find out what other developments he has on the go and how they are doing. If you have a good relationship with your bank manager maybe see if he knows anything about the builder (who knows, maybe the builder owes the bank you are using and they're putting pressure on him).

Information is power here, and the EA has more info about you (you love the place and can buy) than you do about the builder.

If the bank manager says one iota he/she's in bother due to Data protection laws. Not good advice TBH.

kmick

First thing I would do is tell the EA you are not interested at that price.
The get the house "independently" valued. Tell the valuer you want worse case scenario.

Then get you solicitor to put in a bid (with the valuation) based on the worst case scenario. Tell him not to disclose his client (you). If you want it for 330 and are sure it is worth this much (I wont get into that bit) and say the EA is looking for 350 then you need to put in a bid of 310. The midpoint of 310 and 350 is 330 and that is what you are trying to get to. If the EA is banging on about furniture and fittings tell them to take them out you are only interested in the house location etc they are unlilely to call your bluff and take all the stuff out. At the end of the day the developer wants to sell but you have to be prepared to walk away if you are not getting what you want.

~Trixiebelle~

kmick wrote: »

First thing I would do is tell the EA you are not interested at that price.
The get the house "independently" valued. Tell the valuer you want worse case scenario.

Then get you solicitor to put in a bid (with the valuation) based on the worst case scenario. Tell him not to disclose his client (you). If you want it for 330 and are sure it is worth this much (I wont get into that bit) and say the EA is looking for 350 then you need to put in a bid of 310. The midpoint of 310 and 350 is 330 and that is what you are trying to get to. If the EA is banging on about furniture and fittings tell them to take them out you are only interested in the house location etc they are unlilely to call your bluff and take all the stuff out. At the end of the day the developer wants to sell but you have to be prepared to walk away if you are not getting what you want.

Thats really great advice... We spoke about it this weekend and agreed that we would not get in contact with the EA until the houses are relaunched with the updated prices. TBH, it just seems we are not going to get a fair deal out of these houses and its putting me off. Alot of posters suggested looking into the builder and from i can gather they would be quite successful (chieftain construction) so i think they can afford to sit on these over inflated prices for a while.

Then himself listens to the radio today, of course they would have announance that prices are at the bottom and people are back buying again and apparently these excellent prices aren't going to last forever:rolleyes:..

I have my head screwed back on peeps... thanks for the advice so far..no doubt... i will be looking for more as it progresses!!:D

niceirishfella

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

Then himself listens to the radio today, of course they would have announance that prices are at the bottom and people are back buying again and apparently these excellent prices aren't going to last forever:rolleyes:..

LOL LOL LOL
with increasing unemployment, lowering rents,over supply of housing,lack of house loans available,rock bottom consumer confidence and a raging recession,these excellent price will not last forever - they are going to get LOWER!!!:D