I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

With ECB rates now closer to ONE per cent, and deflation happening, dream on in your cossetted little public sector land if you think you can achieve a net guaranteed interest rate of " a lot more than a 3% " which you talked about.

Dunno about that Jimmmy. I could earn 4% interest here.

http://www.permanenttsb.ie/saving-and-investing/

I could earn 3.53% here

http://www.anpost.ie/NR/rdonlyres/F981BEFC-C6A7-4DCF-9419-E8D2ADB7D509/0/AnPostsavingsNTMADL_PURPLE.pdf

And all this in times of unprecedented low interest rates

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Job security (to the extent that it exists) is one of the attractive features of many public service jobs.

It certainly is a perk of the job that is worth a lot so ? I know many people who would dearly love that perk.

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

heres one example of a 4.9% savings account :
http://www.firstactive.ie/savings/rsa/index.aspx

You will notice terms + conditions apply, and you do not even receive that amount gross, there is a maximum amount etc.....plus it is clearly not sustainable, when the same financial institutuion is lending money cheaper than that, and with ECB rates now closer to ONE per cent, and deflation happening.

BC

jimmmy wrote: »

It certainly is a perk of the job that is worth a lot so ? I know many people who would dearly love that perk.

Then they should have applied for jobs in the public sector.
No one made people work in the private sector. I joined the public sector 8 years ago, yes I have a permanent job and i'm thankfull for that. But at the time I took a pay cut to join the public sector and I have earned signficantly less than the people I graduated with who have always worked in the private sector. Over the past few years we have been unable to get skilled (IT) staff to move into the public sector as people wanted the extra money that the private sector offered. I applied for a job I saw in the newspaper, lots of people could have done the same.

Incidently - there are a significant number of people in the public sector who are on contracts and so do not have the perk of job security. Its innacurate to say its a perk for public sector workers. Not only will the contract staff loose their jobs over the next few months but they are also paying a pension levy even though they will never get a public sector pension.

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

if i gave you my weeks salary to go book a flight and B+B for a few days, will you book it for me please?

You want the Irish taxpayer to book your holidays as well as pay for it ? Well, give me your weeks salary and I will do it for you if thats what keeps you happy.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

It certainly is a perk of the job that is worth a lot so ? I know many people who would dearly love that perk.

You have been throwing out the phrase "plus perks" in conjunction with your salary figures in such a way as to suggest that public servants receive more than their nominal salary. I believe that you are attempting to distort perceptions.

Everybody I know who receives perks (in the fairly well established meaning of the term) is in the private sector.

I do not attempt to play down the benefits of the job security that many (but not all) in the public sector enjoy; I recognise that the public sector pension deal is a good one. Now all I ask is that you be equally fair, and avoid misrepresenting things.

jimmmy

BC wrote: »

Then they should have applied for jobs in the public sector.

Ah, the familiar old cry ;" Then they should have applied for jobs in the public sector.". Trouble is, there are not 1,800,000 jobs in the public sector. Most people would love the pay, job security and pension , not to mention short working week, fliexitime etc of much of the public sector, more sickies etc, but not everyone can work there. Plus I guess many people are capable of more than that.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You have been throwing out the phrase "plus perks" in conjunction with your salary figures in such a way as to suggest that public servants receive more than their nominal salary.

rubbish. Do you think job security is not a perk of the job that is worth a lot nowadays ? I know many people who would dearly love that perk. Not to mention a pension ( plus lump sum ) of 50% of finishing salary ( linked to future increases ), flexitime, etc etc

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

rubbish. Do you think job security is not a perk of the job that is worth a lot nowadays ? I know many people who would dearly love that perk. Not to mention a pension ( plus lump sum ) of 50% of finishing salary ( linked to future increases) That 50% being mainly made up of the state pension, which is paid for by PRSI contributions, while the other part of the pension is paid for through a pension levy and pension contributions plus interest/profit earned by the government on these payments , flexitime which is widely used throughout not just Ireland, but the world!, etc etc

Fixed it for you.

We are going round in circles again. Your pension argument has been proved to be wrong!

jimmmy

1,800,000 people in the private sector , who do not have the guaranteed public sector pension, would disagree with you.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

certainly. If you had ready the rest of this thread there would be no need to do so. Average public sector pay in this jurisdiction is 966 euro per week, plus perks, as has been widely reported and is well known. Even the c.s.o. has confirmed that.

tut, tut Jimmmy....I would have expected more:rolleyes:

You seem to suggest that because €966 is the average that most public servants earn that or more....that is not what "average" represents

very disingenuous

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

1,800,000 people in the private sector , who do not have the guaranteed public sector pension, would disagree with you.

Same old Jimmmy, totally ignoring facts, :rolleyes: when the argument isn't going your way, you repeat post about '1.8 million disagree with you'. etc etc

I've proven it to you, Jimmmy, with facts, figures that I can take my pension contributions and even sticking them in the fecking post office every week for 40 years I can fund a pension. Do you still dispute this?

Now I'll ask again Jimmmy (I've still never got an actual answer)

How are you paying for a public sector workers pension???

Can I have some links or stats to illustrate your answer instead of the usual 'It was on the radio the other day' or 'the many many people I know told me':)

molloyjh

Guys you're wasting your time with jimmy. His idea of proof is a one line answer that is little more than his opinion. It's rare (if it even happens) that you'll get facts and figures from the guy. You're talking to the proverbial brick wall there.

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

tut, tut Jimmmy....I would have expected more:rolleyes:

You seem to suggest that because €966 is the average that most public servants earn that or more....that is not what "average" represents

very disingenuous

Absolute rubbish . I do not "seem to suggest " that at all. The average is the average.

jimmmy

grahamo wrote: »

How are you paying for a public sector workers pension???

Can I have some links or stats to illustrate your answer instead of the usual 'It was on the radio the other day' or 'the many many people I know told me':)

I never claimed to all by myself be " paying for a public sector workers pension", so why do you pluck that question out of the air ? Mind you, I have paid enough tax over the past number of years to pay more than a "public sector workers pension" ( income tax, stamp duty, vat, vrt etc etc etc ) . I am not going to list all the tax I or any private individual else has paid, its none of your business.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

You want the Irish taxpayer to book your holidays as well as pay for it ? Well, give me your weeks salary and I will do it for you if thats what keeps you happy.

rubbish jim jim, your talking rubbish now, the point being the average worker on the ground would not get a flight plus B+B in australia on their weeks wages, talk about selective quoting :rolleyes:

more facts thrown at you and yet again your ignore them ......surprize....surprize

guys i have to go now, i got paid last thursday and i have to run to the bank to withdraw my wages for my trip down under as i have no cash in my wallet as i had to pay for the mainatinace on my spanish villa in costa del sol, jesus i need petrol in my Range Rover again, i'll get it on the way......

above may not be true, but jim jim thinks all PS workers earn 966 per week

and the problem with jim jim constantly quoting some figures, all the reporters have their own versions of PS salaries, the metro seems to think the average is lower :

jimmmy

I was going by the CSO quoted figure, which has been discussed before, and the figure that made headline news on RTE some time ago.

Also I was referring to the public service, not just civil servants. So I am correct yet again. Please do not keep going round in circles.

When was the metro article printed- what year. Interestingly it still refers to the half hour break every fortnight to cash cheques etc...even though electronic payment is used etc And some civil servants still ask " what perks" lol lol. :rolleyes: Maybe compared to the job security, guaranteed pension, flexitime , sickies etc its not much of a perk.

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

I never claimed to all by myself be " paying for a public sector workers pension", so why do you pluck that question out of the air ? Mind you, I have paid enough tax over the past number of years to pay more than a "public sector workers pension" ( income tax, stamp duty, vat, vrt etc etc etc ) . I am not going to list all the tax I or any private individual else has paid, its none of your business.

Thats a bit rich seeing as you seem to think a public sector employee's salary and pension is your business
I too have paid a lot of tax over my working life. (income tax, stamp duty, VAT, VRT, etc. etc.) I spent most of my life in the private sector before moving to public sector.

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

rubbish jim jim, your talking rubbish now, the point being the average worker on the ground would not get a flight plus B+B in australia on their weeks wages, talk about selective quoting :rolleyes:

In the Sunday papers you will see plenty of cheap flight + holiday offers. Seeing as you do not trust whatever you read in the papers, try :

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flight-guide-to-Australia/

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

When was the metro article printed- what year. Interestingly it still refers to the half hour break every fortnight to cash cheques etc...even though electronic payment is used etc And some civil servants still ask " what perks" lol lol. :rolleyes: .

I can't speak for the civil service but I don't get time off to cash cheques and I've never heard of that before.

jimmmy wrote: »

Maybe compared to the job security, .

Yes I suppose it is more secure than working for some fly by night! I'll give you that one.:)

jimmmy wrote: »

guaranteed pension, .

I've already shown that its well paid for and even if I could opt out of the govt. scheme and save my contributions elsewhere I could quite easily fund my pension. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong!

jimmmy wrote: »

flexitime ,.

I work in Engineering so Flexitime isn't compatible for the job I do or for many,many other jobs in the public sector. (Its a big place, you know!;)). It would suit a lot of office jobs and I wouldn't have a problem with people availing of it. They are still working the same amount of hours!

jimmmy wrote: »

sickies etc its not much of a perk.

Sickies? The last time I was out sick was the mid 1990's. I broke my wrist and had to have it pinned back together. I was in the private sector then.
Now that I'm in the public sector what you need to know is that as a post 1995 employee I pay PRSI and have to apply for state sickness benefit just like everybody else if I'm out sick! I also pay into (out of my own pocket:))
an insurance plan
which is basically insurance to help cover my bills if I'm out sick. It costs you and the rest of the taxpayers nothing! PS Even if I was sick I would have to go in as there is no one to cover for me.

You really need to do some research before posting these ridiculous posts which are incredibly misinformed.

jimmmy

grahamo wrote: »

Thats a bit rich seeing as you seem to think a public sector employee's salary and pension is your business

Not at all. I never stuck my nose in to a specific individuals income or tax affairs. If an individual goes out in to the world and ends up paying a fortune in tax, whither it be income tax, stamp duty, vat, excise, inheritance , CAT, vrt or whatever, I am not everly concerned about that persons affairs.

Government spending however is of interest to the average citizen of this country, especially considering how it has doubled since 2003, and considering the defecit etc.

jimmmy

grahamo wrote: »

I can't speak for the civil service but I don't get time off to cash cheques and I've never heard of that before.

kceire has kindly provided you with a link, scanned directly from a newspaper. I am surprised you have not heard of it before.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

In the Sunday papers you will see plenty of cheap flight + holiday offers. Seeing as you do not trust whatever you read in the papers, try :

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flight-guide-to-Australia/

cheapist price on that website is 696 sterling, for a return flight without any hotel or B+B, now i can say for sure i DO NOT earn that every week, so your point prooved wrong again :rolleyes:

jimmmy wrote: »

I never claimed to all by myself be " paying for a public sector workers pension", so why do you pluck that question out of the air ? Mind you, I have paid enough tax over the past number of years to pay more than a "public sector workers pension" ( income tax, stamp duty, vat, vrt etc etc etc ) . I am not going to list all the tax I or any private individual else has paid, its none of your business.

i pay income tax, PRSI, stamp duty on the house, VAT on all goods and services and VRT on my avensis, like we all do, you dont deserve a medal for doing the same as everybody else in the country :rolleyes:

jimmmy wrote: »

kceire has kindly provided you with a link, scanned directly from a newspaper. I am surprised you have not heard of it before.

it is not passed on to staff from 2003 onwards, but i agree its 30mins for nothing, all it does is bump up your clock, its not used as part of your working daily hours as such.

loobylou

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Job security (to the extent that it exists) is one of the attractive features of many public service jobs. But it does not fall into the normal meaning ascribed to "perk", which is usually used to refer to an extra benefit to an employee that has a monetary value -- something like the use of a company car.

You are throwing around "plus perks" as if the average public service employee enjoys rewards in addition to salary. That is not the way things are, and you are creating a false impression -- I suspect deliberately.

Don't know if it's still the case but employees of Dublin City Council were given free parking in Dublin city centre at Wood Quay civic offices. With the cost and unavailability of parking that would appear to me a pretty substantial "perk".
Another perk would be the so-called "privelege" days allowed to Dublin civil servants giving them two extra days off per year to allow them to travel to and from Dublin over the Christmas and Easter holidays. Apparently introduced due to public transport delays during WW2!

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Absolute rubbish . I do not "seem to suggest " that at all. The average is the average.

rubbish?

the typical Irish public servant can easily afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure for just one weeks gross salary. ?

I would suggest that "typical" and "average" are not the same by a long shot
these line suggests a "typical" public servant is earning the €966 you brought up....I would disagree

grahamo

loobylou wrote: »

Don't know if it's still the case but employees of Dublin City Council were given free parking in Dublin city centre at Wood Quay civic offices. With the cost and unavailability of parking that would appear to me a pretty substantial "perk".
Another perk would be the so-called "privelege" days allowed to Dublin civil servants giving them two extra days off per year to allow them to travel to and from Dublin over the Christmas and Easter holidays. Apparently introduced due to public transport delays during WW2!

So being able to park your car while you go to work is a 'substantial' perk?:rolleyes:
Do other workers around the country not get somewhere to park then?
Cue Jimmmy informing us that '1.8 million workers' have no parking space!:D:D

As for privelege days, this one has been done to death in other threads. Its just a posh word for annual leave that has to be taken on a day that suits the job. I assume you don't get 'floating days' yourself then ,Loobylou?
PS They are known as 'floating days' in Dublin aka 'company days'

ixoy

kceire wrote: »

it is not passed on to staff from 2003 onwards, but i agree its 30mins for nothing, all it does is bump up your clock, its not used as part of your working daily hours as such.

It's an antiquated practice though and has (rightly) been removed as it's a "free" half hour. It's the same with the shopping day that (pre '03 I think) employees get. It's the sort of thing that makes good press headlines because it's relatively indefensible. Similarily some reports recently of county councils giving time off to their employees to attend horse races and even to attend a festival that doesn't exist anymore...

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

cheapist price on that website is 696 sterling, for a return flight without any hotel or B+B, now i can say for sure i DO NOT earn that every week, so your point prooved wrong again :rolleyes:

Rubbish, I am not proved wrong. As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say.

jimmmy

ixoy wrote: »

It's an antiquated practice though and has (rightly) been removed as it's a "free" half hour.

The metro and someone else on this board inply it still exists ; you say its been removed ; which is it ?

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Rubbish, I am not proved wrong. As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say.

I'll try again jimmmy


someone on €966 a week may well be able to afford such a trip...but your previous comment that a "typical" public servant could afford is not the same thing!

typical does not equal average

at around €52,000 i am sure it applies to a lot of public and private workers alike but I am not sure what the underlying point is anyway