I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension

loobylou

grahamo wrote: »

I assume you don't get 'floating days' yourself then ,Loobylou?

No I don't, nor do I understand what a 'floating' day is. Are you saying that these days are part of annual leave or are they over and above?
Also, I don't know which part of the country you're in but I can assure you that a free parking space in the centre of Dublin is a substantial perk. On street parking would cost €2.40 per hour!

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

The metro and someone else on this board inply it still exists ; you say its been removed ; which is it ?

AFAIK it still exists for those who joined pre-2004 and are on flexi-time

it no longer applies to entrants since then as they are obliged to be paid electronically

as the Government recently found out (long service payment for TDs) its not that easy to take away something someone has!! easier to simply deny it to newcomers!!

Riskymove

loobylou wrote: »

No I don't, nor do I understand what a 'floating' day is. Are you saying that these days are part of annual leave or are they over and above?
Also, I don't know which part of the country you're in but I can assure you that a free parking space in the centre of Dublin is a substantial perk. On street parking would cost €2.40 per hour!

free-parking is an advantage but is not available to all public servants either

some buildings have sufficient space for carparking and as a result have car parks but as the employers own the land in question they don't charge employees. There are many buildings without staff parking

I know of similar situations in private firms but obviously space is at a premium in the more historic part of the city centre etc

LoLth

daily wage:

person 1 earns €1
person 2 earns €1
person 3 earns €3
person 4 earns €6
Person 5 earns €10,000

average daily wage = (1+1+3+6+10,000)/5 = 10,011/5 = €2002.50

wow, on average thats a really high wage. FS kill them all!!!! bet they get a pension as well the gits....

THAT is the average. as even Jimmy can see from this grossly over exaggerated example: Average does NOT equal typical.

so, while 966 per week may be the average, it is more than likely not the typical PS wage level. to get that you'll need a breakdown of how many are on each pay grade and at what point in the scale for that grade they are on. anyone know if that information is available anywhere?

On pensions: as demonstrated, if invested in the post office the pension gets a decent return. While it is terrible that private sector pensions took such a drastic hit, I dont think its fair to point at another worker and say "its your fault". If the investor had invested the contributor's money in post office bonds or government bonds they would have been secure and safe. The investor, whether through their own desire to make profit, or at the contributor's request to increase the return above the market average, invested in a portfolio which took a nosedive with the markets. From what I can see, PS workers that I know pay more into their pensions (superannuation and now the levy) than I ever did into a private fund. If they get a decent return out of it, its because they paid into it, and yes, I know the levy isnt being used for PS pensions, but thats the guise its being imposed under so thats what the PS workers are paying it for, its not their fault if its not used in the way they were told, its not like they have a choice in the matter.

grahamo

loobylou wrote: »

No I don't, nor do I understand what a 'floating' day is. Are you saying that these days are part of annual leave or are they over and above?
Also, I don't know which part of the country you're in but I can assure you that a free parking space in the centre of Dublin is a substantial perk. On street parking would cost €2.40 per hour!

I've worked in several different companies, most had company days or 'floating days' (I think they would be at the companies discretion). Basically they are leave days that can be used for personal use. e.g. maybe you might need to go and sort out a mortgage or maybe you just feel like staying at home that day
Why is it that people who don't have these begrudge other people having them. It seems to me your problem is with your boss who seems to be too tight to look after his employees:)
I'm a Dub but I can't speak for people working in town. (I'm not an office worker or civil service so have never worked in the city centre.)
As far as I'm concerned parking space or not you would be mad to drive into town at any time of day so I'd get the bus meself. Even so every place I've worked in had a car park.!

loobylou

grahamo wrote: »

Why is it that people who don't have these begrudge other people having them. It seems to me your problem is with your boss who seems to be too tight to look after his employees:

I suspect I have the same boss as you have!!

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

Rubbish, I am not proved wrong. As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say.

more rubbish jim jim, show me a website or indeed a newspaper that i can get flights to australia and a B+B thrown in for what i earn in a week......(550e)......i suspect you cant, so ithing you should politely shut up with your lies :rolleyes:

jimmmy wrote: »

The metro and someone else on this board inply it still exists ; you say its been removed ; which is it ?

if you actually spend 30 seconds of your life and read the article i posted, it states that it is no longer given to employees after 2003.

loobylou wrote: »

No I don't, nor do I understand what a 'floating' day is. Are you saying that these days are part of annual leave or are they over and above?
Also, I don't know which part of the country you're in but I can assure you that a free parking space in the centre of Dublin is a substantial perk. On street parking would cost €2.40 per hour!

in my last job, i had 5 company days per year on top of my anual leave and could use them at a moments notice, ie commonly known as duvet days or if something popped up that just had to be done i could ring in and take one of these days and not affect me anual leave.

we also had free parking in the city centre, on the companies grounds. sure my mate that works for cornmarket gets free parking in the car park on the quays and he can use it 7 days a week, not just during work hours.

molloyjh

loobylou wrote: »

No I don't, nor do I understand what a 'floating' day is. Are you saying that these days are part of annual leave or are they over and above?
Also, I don't know which part of the country you're in but I can assure you that a free parking space in the centre of Dublin is a substantial perk. On street parking would cost €2.40 per hour!

The idea of "floating days" or "company days" is quite individual to each company. For example I never had them in any of the private companies I worked in. Nor do I have it in the semi-state organisation I currently work for. What I did have in the private sector was a certain amount of lee-way, where if I needed an hour or two here or there for things like going to the bank to sort a mortgage or whatever it was no problem. It's kind of the same idea, just a lot less formal.

In the semi-state body I work for now we have flexi-time and I take it from that, which means I have to work up the time elsewhere. I've no problem with that, but it's technically worse than the private sector arrangements I had where I didn't need to work it up.

As for the parking, most companies have some form of parking arrangements, I don't see a problem with that.

jimmmy wrote: »

Rubbish, I am not proved wrong. As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say.

Ah jimmy, jimmy. What are we to do with you? I am personally on a very good wage (the same, if not a little less than I would be on in the private sector). This salary is higher than most of my contemporaries (i.e. non-management, the plebs if you will) where I work, with only management getting higher. I can promise you I am not on 966 a week. I'm on roughly 60% of that. Therefore my contemporaries are likely on 50% or less. Even my manager isn't on 966 a week. Now I know you don't have much time for facts and figures, but the simple truth is that the 966 figure you quoted may be the average, but it's certainly not typical. I have to laugh, as your posts are very Libertas-like. Slogan-style phrases with the odd singular fact/figure that misrepresents the real truth. You're not Declan Ganley by any chance??? :eek:

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

someone on €966 a week may well be able to afford such a trip...

I am glad so you agree with my point " As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say."

molloyjh

jimmmy wrote: »

I am glad so you agree with my point " As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say."

And as plenty of others said to you jimmy, though strangely you ignored us, is that the 966 isn't typical therefore the point is relatively moot. If you were to look at some private companies the average would be well thrown out by CEO salaries etc so maybe you can focus on some form of meaningful discourse for a change.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

I am glad so you agree with my point " As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say."

Your point seems to be about the cost of a holiday to Australia?

Maybe you should be over on the holidays and travel forum!

LoLth

jimmmy wrote: »

I am glad so you agree with my point " As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say."

and you are wrong because some apples are green.

some apples are in fact green. this is undisputed and cannot be argued against. a search of any relevant journal, a search on teh internet, a walk to your local supermarket will prove this fact beyond all shadow of a doubt. You can ring the independant newspaper editor's desk, the Time, the herald, the wall street journal and they will all agree with this statement.

newspapers write articles specifically to be controversial and to generate reactions exactly like yours. "did you see the article in the Indo.. OMG!". I'm sure they could have, with a little more effort, come up with a figure closer to the typical PS wage, but then they wouldnt be able to cause as much of a stir. "weekend in wexford with a happy meal" doesnt have the same punch as "Australia + B&B".

jimmmy

LoLth wrote: »

and you are wrong because some apples are green.

some apples are in fact green. this is undisputed and cannot be argued against. a search of any relevant journal, a search on teh internet, a walk to your local supermarket will prove this fact beyond all shadow of a doubt. You can ring the independant newspaper editor's desk, the Time, the herald, the wall street journal and they will all agree with this statement.

newspapers write articles specifically to be controversial and to generate reactions exactly like yours. "did you see the article in the Indo.. OMG!". I'm sure they could have, with a little more effort, come up with a figure closer to the typical PS wage, but then they wouldnt be able to cause as much of a stir. "weekend in wexford with a happy meal" doesnt have the same punch as "Australia + B&B".

Even the cso will confirm the average public sector weekly wage to be 966 ( plus perks ).

You could indeed fly to Australia and have a few nights B+B for that.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

( plus perks ).

you just can't help yourself can you?:rolleyes:

will the CSO confirm the "perks"?

can these "perks" be used to buy trips to Australia?:rolleyes:

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

And as plenty of others said to you jimmy, though strangely you ignored us, is that the 966 isn't typical therefore the point is relatively moot. If you were to look at some private companies the average would be well thrown out by CEO salaries etc so maybe you can focus on some form of meaningful discourse for a change.

jimmmy wrote: »

Even the cso will confirm the average public sector weekly wage to be 966 ( plus perks ).

You could indeed fly to Australia and have a few nights B+B for that.

So the answer is "no you can't" then is it?

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

will the CSO confirm the "perks"?

Probably not, that is not so much their job. However, as was pointed out before another poster about 2 pages back showed a link to the half hour break every fortnight to cash cheques etc...even though electronic payment is used etc And some civil servants still ask " what perks" lol lol. Maybe compared to the job security, guaranteed pension, flexitime , sickies etc its not much of a perk.

Nodin

jimmmy wrote: »

Probably not, that is not so much their job. However, as was pointed out before another poster about 2 pages back showed a link to the half hour break every fortnight to cash cheques etc...even though electronic payment is used etc And some civil servants still ask " what perks" lol lol. Maybe compared to the job security, guaranteed pension, flexitime , sickies etc its not much of a perk.

I remember working on the buildings and getting time off to cash the cheque, and in the 1980's, for some lads to collect the dole.

At this stage, and given the lack of concrete figures and basis for an opinion, you might just post *Begrudge/Snipe and leave it at that.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

Even the cso will confirm the average public sector weekly wage to be 966 ( plus perks )...

The CSO says nothing about perks, and I have challenged you before on that point. I believe that you post stuff like this with a disregard for truth.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

Probably not, that is not so much their job. However, as was pointed out before another poster about 2 pages back showed a link to the half hour break every fortnight to cash cheques etc...even though electronic payment is used etc And some civil servants still ask " what perks" lol lol. Maybe compared to the job security, guaranteed pension, flexitime , sickies etc its not much of a perk.

another of jim jims factless posts. the scanned article of the metro pointed out that new members since 2003 dont get the 30min break, are you seriously just not reading other posts.

you have some behaviour similaraties of a troll here, in that you cant back up anything you say, and just post lies to try provoke people :rolleyes:

P. Breathnach

kceire wrote: »

... you have some behaviour similaraties of a troll here, in that you cant back up anything you say, and just post lies to try provoke people :rolleyes:

The tactic seems to work.

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

another of jim jims factless posts. the scanned article of the metro pointed out that new members since 2003 dont get the 30min break, are you seriously just not reading other posts.

but immediately after that it says the 30 minute break is still taken by 80% of the employees who were employed before electronic payment was introduced.

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The CSO says nothing about perks, and I have challenged you before on that point.

See someone elses post no. 295 on this very thread if you want to read about perks. Or educate yourself to the job security ( quite a perk nowadays ), guaranteed pension, flexitime, time off etc

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

but immediately after that it says the 30 minute break is still taken by 80% of the employees who were employed before electronic payment was introduced.

i dont know about the %figure, but some employees still get paid by cheque.
theres one guy in my dept, getting very close to retirement and he gets paid by cheque. although my dept only has 12-14 staff.

jimmmy wrote: »

See someone elses post no. 295 on this very thread if you want to read about perks. Or educate yourself to the job security ( quite a perk nowadays ), guaranteed pension, flexitime, time off etc

job security - was always there, even during the good times when the local authority advertised for technicians, they got something like 6 applications, thats how many people wanted to join DCC during the boom times! now fair enough, i know that figure would multiply x1000 if we advertised today but the point being, they didnt want the DCC jobs during the boom years.

guaranteed pension - prooved in this thread alone, that we the average/typical worker pays for their own pension. now jim jim will hit back and quote this magical 966e salary that he claims we earn, but take away all the polititions (sp) and judges and then see what the average salary is.

flexi-time - many private companies offer flexi time including Hibernian Insurance, my old engineering company in harolds cross.
its so embarrising (sp) to see a grown man cry over flexi time, like god forbid the person that wants to drop their kids to school and not have to worry about being 30mins late for work, its not as if flexi time allows a person to come and go as they please, the still have to account for their hours etc etc etc

time off - last time i checked we are all allowed take annual leave, including the private sector..........sure even my mam, a shelf stacker in Dunnes Stores gets annual leave....i dont see your point here?????

etc - ?????????

LoLth

jimmmy wrote: »

Even the cso will confirm the average public sector weekly wage to be 966 ( plus perks ).

You could indeed fly to Australia and have a few nights B+B for that.

the AVERAGE public sector wage does NOT equal the TYPICAL public sector wage.

many have shown this to you. I posted an example that a ten year old could follow and yet you still insist on banging on about the AVERAGE wage and how all PS employees are rolling in money and laughing at the rest of the country.

Drop the term AVERAGE from your argument and think about it again. Until you do that, until you actually manage to comprehend that extremely basic fact you are doing your argument more harm than good. You dont read anythign that is posted in reply to your comments. You provide absolutely no proof to back up your assertions besides the most vague and flimsiest of bases and your entire defense rests on "i heard someone say...." or "i read somewhere....".

at this stage Jimmy , I really hope you are a troll. Seriously, I know the charter says no personal comments but this is beyond a joke.

jimmmy

LoLth wrote: »

the AVERAGE public sector wage does NOT equal the TYPICAL public sector wage.

The average means the average. Because it is based on such a large number of people, average public sector pay is exactly that. Of course the AVERAGE public sector wage does NOT exactly equal the wage the typical public sector worker earns, because some are paid less, some are pair a lot more.

LoLth wrote: »

Drop the term AVERAGE from your argument and think about it again.

But then its not the average. Of course pay varies in the public service ; some get paid less, some get paid more.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

Of course pay varies in the public service ; most get paid less, a very few get paid more.

fixed that for you

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

See someone elses post no. 295 on this very thread if you want to read about perks. Or educate yourself to the job security ( quite a perk nowadays ), guaranteed pension, flexitime, time off etc

Ducking and diving, jimmmy. The CSO says nothing about perks. You cannot truthfully say

Even the cso will confirm the average public sector weekly wage to be 966 ( plus perks ).

guinnessdrinker

jimmmy wrote: »

I am glad so you agree with my point " As I said, on the gross amount of the average Irish public servant weekly wage ( 966 euro ), a person could indeed afford a return trip to Australia and a few nights b+b thrown in for good measure. The Sunday papers have some great deals / adds on Oz at the moment ; but then again you do not believe anything they say."

Jimmmy you are too reliant on this €966 figure. I would guess that most ps workers earn far less than this.

It might be true that the average ps wage is €966 but what is the percentage of ps workers that earn this wage or higher, have you got the figures?

Just to try and break it down: say for example there are two people working in the same area. One person earns €20,000 per week and another earns €200 per week, the average wage (yes, average) is therefore €10,100.

jimmmy

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Jimmmy you are too reliant on this €966 figure. I would guess that most ps workers earn far less than this.

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Just to try and break it down: say for example there are two people working in the same area. One person earns €20,000 per week and another earns €200 per week, the average wage (yes, average) is therefore €10,100.

Ah, but no public servant working a full week would earn only 200 per week, as that would be way below the minimum wage. And even in the Irish public service nobody is paid ( I would guess anyway) 20,000 per week...so get real with your figures. Many of the 300,000 people in the public service do not vary that much in pay. The cso average is the cso average.

Its obviously an embarassment to the public service that the average pay figure is public knowledge, as released by the c.s.o.

.

guinnessdrinker

jimmmy wrote: »

Ah, but no public servant working a full week would earn only 200 per week, as that would be way below the minimum wage. And even in the Irish public service nobody is paid ( I would guess anyway) 20,000 per week...so get real with your figures. Many of the 300,000 people in the public service do not vary that much in pay. The cso average is the cso average.

Its obviously an embarassment to the public service that the average pay figure is public knowledge, as released by the c.s.o.

.

Jimmmy, I used those figures purely as an example of how an average figure is arrived at. I wasn't basing them on what public servants actually earn.

I would be interested to know though, what is the figure of ps workers earninig €966 actually is, as I said I would guess the number would be relatively low. Have you got the figures?