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I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension
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But throwing around a single figure like 966 to try and make any kind of point about the public sector as a whole, which is pretty diverse, is a waste of time.
It is best, is it not, to take an average of three to four hundred thousand people than an average of a few thousand people. That is what the C.S.O. has done ; they are the experts in that area. Find me another country in the world where the average public sector pay is 966 per week
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It is best, is it not, to take an average of three to four hundred thousand people than an average of a few thousand people. That is what the C.S.O. has done ; they are the experts in that area. Find me another country in the world where the average public sector pay is 966 per week
Wow a response!!! Well now jimmy me lad, doing either is pointless. What is that 966 figures actually telling you and how can that single figure back up any claims you make in relation to it? It may well be a fact, but a single fact like this tells you little else other than an average of over 300,000 different things. The truth is far more complex than this one number. As my post previous said, there could be multiple reasons for this figure. Those reasons could differ across the various bodies within the public sector.
One single figure, regardless of the size of the sample set, is generally not going to tell you very much unless you are being very specific with your sample set. The whole Public Sector is anything but specific. It includes everyone from cleaners to top brass management across multiple and extremely varied areas.It is best, is it not, to take an average of three to four hundred thousand people than an average of a few thousand people.
That all depends on the purposes for which you are carrying out the test. It is certainly better in getting the average salary in the public sector, but the whole point is that the average salary across such a disparate group, regardless of what it is, is utterly meaningless for what you're using it for. In terms of discussing whether the total wage bill in the Public Sector is too high it would have a certain amount of meaning, however if discussing whether salary levels in general in the Public Sector are too high it doesn't. The two are very different, distinct issues.0 -
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Count Dooku wrote: »I seen thousands explanations why PS workers must have their high salaries
I don’t understand one thing
Why in most developed EU countries average salary of PS workers is less then average salary of private workers and they have working public services.
Where it has been mentioned first time
Industrial & Services* Public Sector Differential % of Ind&Serv
Denmark € 44,403 € 40,952 -€ 3,451 -7.77%
Germany € 35,421 € 33,905 -€ 1,516 -4.28%
Ireland € 35,746 € 45,643 € 9,897 27.69%
Netherlands € 36,195 € 36,038 -€ 157 -0.43%
Finland € 31,995 € 28,569 -€ 3,426 -10.71%
Britain € 38,036 € 35,189 -€ 2,847 -7.49%
BTW, Finland and Denmark are not cheaper then Ireland, therefore argument that Ireland overpriced will not be accepted
Again all you are doing here is taking a single number. What does that really tell you? That the Public Sector wage bill is too high? Fair enough I agree. Beyond that what does it say or suggest? Absolutely nothing. The reason(s) the wage bill is so high could be varied and this is what needs to be looked at, nothing else.
Another thing, the figures you have above would seem to contradict jimmys 966 a week. The problem here is both figures could be right. The complexity and potential pitfalls of trying to get salary information on so many people across so many organisations with so many different job roles and so many different definitions of every facet of the returns from organisations, some of which may not have the systems to be able to accurately report it, and then trying to group all of that info in a sensible apples to apples way is staggering. From returns to the Central Bank I used to do when in the Banking area I saw how hard it was to do this kind of thing among a small number of companies, and this study was across a large number of countries! So while the figures may differ they may both be right from certain points of view (a quote you may appreciate Count Dooku). 0 -
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This number tells me a lot.Again all you are doing here is taking a single number. What does that really tell you? That the Public Sector wage bill is too high? Fair enough I agree. Beyond that what does it say or suggest? Absolutely nothing. The reason(s) the wage bill is so high could be varied and this is what needs to be looked at, nothing else.
Another thing, the figures you have above would seem to contradict jimmys 966 a week. The problem here is both figures could be right. The complexity and potential pitfalls of trying to get salary information on so many people across so many organisations with so many different job roles and so many different definitions of every facet of the returns from organisations, some of which may not have the systems to be able to accurately report it, and then trying to group all of that info in a sensible apples to apples way is staggering. From returns to the Central Bank I used to do when in the Banking area I saw how hard it was to do this kind of thing among a small number of companies, and this study was across a large number of countries! So while the figures may differ they may both be right from certain points of view (a quote you may appreciate Count Dooku).
First, I would like to point you that statistic about average salary for PS services is more accurate, because state departments shouldn’t cheat with taxes. It means that figure for average PS worker salary is accurate.
Second, I didn’t get answer what is the difference between total responsibilities PS workers in Ireland and other EU countries, which justify so high salary in comparison with PS workers in other EU countries. I understand that average responsibilities in private and public sectors are different, but they must be the same in different EU countries.0 -
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Count Dooku wrote: »This number tells me a lot.
First, I would like to point you that statistic about average salary for PS services is more accurate, because state departments shouldn’t cheat with taxes. It means that figure for average PS worker salary is accurate.
Second, I didn’t get answer what is the difference between total responsibilities PS workers in Ireland and other EU countries, which justify so high salary in comparison with PS workers in other EU countries. I understand that average responsibilities in private and public sectors are different, but they must be the same in different EU countries.
The problem here Count Dooku is that you are assuming that this average salary translates to cross-the-board higher salaries, which it may not do.
Additionally you also presume that you are comparing like with like. I am not disputing the figures (although I am pointing out how easy it would be for them to be inaccurate at the same time
). I am saying that, say we were looking at Administrative salaries in Ireland, what UCD consider to be administrative and what the Health Service consider administrative and what AIB consider to be Administrative could be 3 entirely different things. These kinds of returns have all sorts of proviso's attached re the categories of staff you should or should not include or how you should account for them. How different organsiations interpret that varies from organisation to organisation. These kinds of definitional differences are common place in this sort of return.
Either way my point still stands. I'm not disputing the total wage bill issue, just the notion that this means everyone in the Public Sector is overpaid.0
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