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I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension
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I see the public sector bashers are now conspicuous by their absence. They can't dispute the figures in this thread so I think the public sector bashers have lost this debate.:)
Could it be time for them to go and pick on someone else now;)
dont worry, they'll be back. there currently over bashing the Dublin Bus drivers at the moment, tomorrow its the taxi's and i think the PS is scheduled in for a friday bashing
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Just to make it clear, yet again, not all public servants earn 300 grand a year.
Nobody - but nobody - suggested they do. Average public sector pay is 966 per week, plus perks. This is way more than the private sector. As the tv programme said, what the public sector does get is a big proportion of the salary plus the gratuity. This " gratuity " ( as well as the pension ) is not often mentioned by the public sector people
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Nobody - but nobody - suggested they do. Average public sector pay is 966 per week, plus perks. This is way more than the private sector. As the tv programme said, what the public sector does get is a big proportion of the salary plus the gratuity. This " gratuity " ( as well as the pension ) is not often mentioned by the public sector people
In the Civil Service Clerical Officers, Staff Officers and Executive Officers make up the vast vast bulk of staff. None of these grades earn 966 per week. They all earn below this amount. I know you said it is an average figure but for instance in the deparment I work in there are 250 staff (210 CS staff and 40 consultants). 136 of the CS staff are EO grade or below.0 -
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Nobody - but nobody - suggested they do. Average public sector pay is 966 per week, plus perks. This is way more than the private sector. As the tv programme said, what the public sector does get is a big proportion of the salary plus the gratuity. This " gratuity " ( as well as the pension ) is not often mentioned by the public sector people
now i do not understand this: you keep saying that only private sector workers get lump sums but both of my parents retired in the last few years - mother public service and father private and BOTH got lump sums. he always made more than she did and got a lump sum twice as big (despite apparently being in a fairly high risk pension). so can you please explain this or is my dad the only private sector worker who paid into a pension that entitled him to a lump sum? also - he gets the prsi pension added she does not.0 -
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No rebuttal required. Some public servants do well.
All public servants have taken the levies. Even those who will get nothing from their "gilt edged" "gold plated" pensions.
p.s. Maybe rebuttal required. and that's based on a single person, not a couple with a dependant wife. One size does not fit all.
206.30 by 52 weeks = 10,727.60 by 15 years = €160,916
Swings the calculation around.
First, I did point out that not all public service workers come out with a fantastic pension, but it seems clear that most PS workers who contribute towards a DB public pension get out significantly more than they put in (even after the pension levy)
Second, yes it is based on a a single person or couple with 2 pensions. Do you have statistics on how many public service retirees, now and in the future, have or will have dependent partners with no separate source of income?kindajaded wrote: »HERE IS YOUR REBUTTAL:
A/ you omitted prsi contributions
B/ MOST IMPORTANTLY: ALL pension funds go up in value to the tune of 10s to 100s of thousands from the contributions made. WHY ELSE WOULD PEOPLE JOIN THEM?? This is just a fact and if you don't realise this then I assume you are just hiding your money under the bed or investing it in property
C/ Many private funds pay out a lump sum
D/ FINGLETON
A) I omitted PRSI contributions as all workers public and private pay that, and it's not just a pension contribution it also pays unemployment benefits etc. Also, I was rebutting the original calculations by grahamo who also omitted it for the same reason:We'll leave the PRSI contributions out as everyone gets the state pension (If enough contributions paid).
Fine, but this depends on where the money is invested. As far as I know unlike private sector pension funds, the public sector defined benefit pension reserve fund is used to pay current pensions (when it's not being used to bail out banks!). So I don't think you can quantify the interest returns easily. But if you have statistics on these annual returns, please provide them and I'll gladly update the spreadsheet.
C) That has no bearing on what I was trying to demonstrate - this is about the public service pension and the cost to the taxpayer, private sector pensions aren't a part of it.
D) Again, irrelevantNo one here is denying Public Sector workers have good pensions and HAD great ones pre 95
But now the facts are
Public Sector workers can not claim State Pension aswell as their Pension. Private sector workers can . this is about €12 k a year
That was part of the above sample calculation
Public Sector workers pay between 12% and 15% towards their pension
From the example above you can see that, after tax relief, the maximum contribution (ex PRSI for reasons given) was 11.29% (at a salary of €63,360)
The pension a Public Sector worker gets is similar to a private pension in a decent company
Not so, most private sector pensions are defined contribution which have been decimated by the recent carnage in investment funds across all asset classes and geographies
There are a lot more conditions now with Public Sector pensions
They can not pass on their pension to their estate if they die.
They must pay widows and orphans even if they are single
I'll take your word for it, but these seem minor elements TBH.Like everything the more you earn the more you get. People on high wages get good pensions but not all Public Sector worker Leaves on a high wage
For the majority of Public Sector workers their pension will just about allow them to enjoy their golden years.
I agree with the point that not all public sector workers do as well as the example I showed, but I think the majority get significantly more out of it than they put in. There are a lot of "high earners" in the public sector - especially as the average wage in the public sector is 50k (a "high earner" in my book).This was not as much of an issue when the Private Sector pensions were doing well and people were getting their tax relief on the amounts they put in. But now because people are feeling the pinch they want everyone else to feel the pinch.
To be honest, I think it was a big issue long before now, but no one was listening. Now there's a recession, the media are perfectly happy to point out all the big issues that would have been seen as "boring", "misguided" or "scare-mongering" before.Can i ask would you take joy in knowing your Private Sector neighbour looses his pension. What difference would that make to your day to day life
No, I wouldn't take joy in anyone currently retired losing their pension, if that's what you're asking. I do take exception to people trying to make out that the government pension is costing most PS workers a lot more than they get out of it in return - it's just not the case. If you're getting a good, guaranteed pension at the end of your career, you should expect to pay for it.0 -
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