I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

ive read every post in this thread, you keep banging on about "The reality is most public service jobs if they came up vacant would be flooded with applicants", where im simply stating that "The reality is most private sector jobs if they came up vacant would be flooded with applicants too"

wrong- see post no 616

kceire wrote: »

so your job allows you to surf the net..........intresting......:rolleyes:

I never said I had a job or not. Never mind me - I can guarantee you I am not paid by the government.

solice

jimmmy wrote: »

Rather than worry about the deficet in 40 years time, I would be more concerned with what the pension should be for people already retired, and who will retire soon, what what they have paid over the past 40 years...that is more relevant. Thanks anyway.

Well it will be out of date in the next budget when the govt brings in a tax on the lump sum.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

Fair enough + well done. For public servants who have done 40 years service, I am fairly certain they would live longer than 13 years after retirement....I cannot remember the exact figures but remember is longer for women rathen than men etc...and do not forget you are basing it on 40 years in the future, so with increases in medical technology etc.

Rather than worry about the deficet in 40 years time, I would be more concerned with what the pension should be for people already retired, and who will retire soon, what what they have paid over the past 40 years...that is more relevant. Thanks anyway.

the guy went out of his way to create a calculator and because it doesnt fit in with your PS bashing or prooves that your so called facts are wrong, you cut him up over it????? showing your true colours are we jim jim?

your posts to this forum are noted, but we dont need any more, thanks anyway :rolleyes:

jimmmy wrote: »

wrong- see post no 616

wrong - you cant take somebody off the street and do the job of somebody with 5 or 10 or longer experience, end of.

jimmmy wrote: »

I never said I had a job or not. Never mind me - I can guarantee you I am not paid by the government.

well then, never mind the public servants if thats your attitude????? didnt see you on here moaning and groaning when you were raking it in during the boom years did we, no.

lots of assumptions here, but isint that what jim jims being doing all month?

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

the guy went out of his way to create a calculator and because it doesnt fit in with your PS bashing or prooves that your so called facts are wrong, you cut him up over it????? showing your true colours are we jim jim?

I actually used language like " Fair enough + well done." and " Thanks anyway ". Not exactly the language of " cutting up", is it kceire ?
His calculator with the clarifications provided actually proves my points anyway.

kceire wrote: »

didnt see you on here moaning and groaning when you were raking it in during the boom years did we, no.

Please do not assume anything or you may make an "ass" out of yourself.

Gumbo

jimmmy wrote: »

Please do not assume anything or you may make an "ass" out of yourself.

you see jim jim, im trying to be more like you, you sound like you have a head on your shoulders

Count Dooku

grahamo wrote: »

But thats just it, you don't know!:) I'm Grade 2 because I'm not in the job that long!

Doesn’t proof anything.
Not everybody joined PS recently. A lot of people spent all life in public services. It means that they are overpaid.

grahamo wrote: »

Let me explain why (again) Slowly! The girl with 20 years experience knows the job inside out. She is more knowledgeable, faster and more efficient. Much more of an asset to her department! Therefore she is worth more money! Even in the private sector she would be paid more for those years of experience.Prove this statement is wrong. I bet You Can't!

There is not much difference between 3 years experience and 20 years experience. Only dumb person will require 20 years of full training for this job

grahamo wrote: »

This proves my point that your knowledge of the public sector is limited!

I will bash public services until I will know everything about them :D

Count Dooku

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think what you say here reflects a mistaken perception of public service employment. One of the features of working in the public service (one which many participants here attack) is relative job security. Concomitant with that is a view that people are not employed for a particular job, but for a career. So they can progress to taking on more responsible and demanding work, even while still at the same grade; and then they can compete for promotion (and promotion is now competitive, not based on seniority). On such a structure, it makes sense to employ people who are seen as having capacity to progress. You might describe such people as overqualified, but they might also be seen as being there for their potential future performance as well as for their present assignment.

I would agree with you statement only if public services would have right age profile, but so misbalanced as they have now. You know better then me how recruitment freezes damaged age profile.
It was not much opportunities for promotion even before recruitment freeze, because most of good are filled by people at their 50’s, which lost all interest for hard work and only waiting for pension.
I know that there is mechanism to put back underperformers in public services, but I don’t think that it ever been used.
Plus you cannot have too many people working below their capacity, because it will reduce their motivation and performance. In private sector they can join other company. But in public services opportunities to join another department are very limited.

Count Dooku

kceire wrote: »

and if a private sector job was advertised, then it would be flooded with applicants too, so i dont see your point here jim jim.

Not much as public services
In 2006 we had 80,000 applicants for 3900 positions in public services, which give us 20 applicants per position and it was the best year in Irish economy for private sector.
In 2009 with huge unemployment only 4000 applied for 280 jobs in IKEA, which give us 14 applicants per position.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0420/1224245022998.html

grahamo

Thanks for the calc, solice. Well Done!

Count Dooku

kceire wrote: »

well then, never mind the public servants if thats your attitude????? didnt see you on here moaning and groaning when you were raking it in during the boom years did we, no.

Benchmarking!
It was done only because PS workers were moaning and groaning that Private sector had better salaries.

solice

Count Dooku wrote: »

Benchmarking!
It was done only because PS workers were moaning and groaning that Private sector had better salaries.

Again, I suggest benchmarking be revisited. If the outcome is a suggestion that PS pay be reduced then it should be. It the outcome is a suggestion that all is well with the way it is then it should be left alone.

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

Anyone in an equivalent job in any other public service in the world, for starters..

I think anyone in an equivalent job anywhere in the world will be paid the market rate.
I'm not going to explain it again suffice to say kindajaded's post #608 tore your argument to shreds!:)

jimmmy wrote: »

Why do you not you so...or would you not have as many days off, privilidge days, sickies, time to surf the net, subsidised pension, flexitime, short working week, lack of security or what ?
I've explained .

I've explained already that 1 day I probably will end up private sector again.
as for your other misguided, ill informed , ignorant accusations

Privelege days! 2 days, part of annual leave, not everyone gets them!
Sickies Don't take them personally unless I REALLY had to, but if I did have to they would be paid for by my PRSI contributions (as I would have to claim sickness benefit)
and an insurance scheme I pay into. That OK with you Jimmmy?
time to surf the net No more than any other worker, public or private, but seemingly much less time than you!:rolleyes:
subsidised pension I've shown time and time again that my pension isn't subsidised, with facts and figures. Also somebody posted a calculator.
You on the other hand, still haven't posted anything to back up this claim.
Nothing! Zilch! The thread is 43 pages long and you still haven't backed up this claim!:) Are you going to back it up? Prove to me my pension is subsidised!
flexitime I don't get it as it wouldn't fit in with the work I do, However I have no problem with anybody else getting this.
short working week If you say so! Only because there is no overtime!:D
lack of security or what ? I signed up to the post 1995 agreement which gives me the same working conditions as the private sector. You are WRONG again!

jimmmy wrote: »

I guarantee most public service jobs if they came up vacant would be flooded with applicants....people tend to like high pay, security, pension , lack of pressure etc.

to be fair most private sector jobs are flooded with applicants too. However, you totally missed the point there. the point was Count Dooku claimed he could drag someone in off the street to do a public sector job. Most jobs need quite advanced qualifications which not everyone has!

Overall It seems that your overeagerness to spit bile and snipe at the public sector is clouding your judgement!

grahamo

Count Dooku wrote: »

Not much as public services
In 2006 we had 80,000 applicants for 3900 positions in public services, which give us 20 applicants per position and it was the best year in Irish economy for private sector.
In 2009 with huge unemployment only 4000 applied for 280 jobs in IKEA, which give us 14 applicants per position.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0420/1224245022998.html

Hardly like for like, my friend! If you look again the IKEA jobs were mostly entry level employment where most of the public sector jobs are professional positions offering good career prospects. These are obviously going to attract more candidates!

Count Dooku

solice wrote: »

Again, I suggest benchmarking be revisited. If the outcome is a suggestion that PS pay be reduced then it should be. It the outcome is a suggestion that all is well with the way it is then it should be left alone.

Who will propose new benchmarking?
PS unions, Labours, FF?

grahamo

solice wrote: »

Again, I suggest benchmarking be revisited. If the outcome is a suggestion that PS pay be reduced then it should be. It the outcome is a suggestion that all is well with the way it is then it should be left alone.

Anything gained through benchmarking by workers is now gone through the pension levy.

Gumbo

Count Dooku wrote: »

Not much as public services
In 2006 we had 80,000 applicants for 3900 positions in public services, which give us 20 applicants per position and it was the best year in Irish economy for private sector.
In 2009 with huge unemployment only 4000 applied for 280 jobs in IKEA, which give us 14 applicants per position.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0420/1224245022998.html

here you go :

In a sure sign of how hard the recession is biting at the moment - around 2000 people queued in Dublin last night for jobs at Londis in Grafton Street.

There were upwards of 100 positions, between part-time and full-time work, to be filled at three new stores.

The jobs varied between general cashiers to managerial roles with the potential for future promotions.

Seamus Griffin, from the Griffin Group, which employs around 350 people at its 16 Londis Stores, said they were getting people applying from "all walks of life".

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=12464&locID=1.2.&pagename=news

80,000 applied for 3,900 jobs gives a 1:20.5 chance of a job (public sector)
2,000 applied for 100 jobs gives a 1:20 chance of a job (Private Sector)
so faily even terms there imo

i think any job in the current climate will attract many many applicants, public or private. Technician grade 1 jobs were advertised in September 2007 in Dublin City Council and they had to re-advertise in July 2008 as they didnt get anywhere near enough applicants to fill the positions.

solice

Count Dooku wrote: »

Who will propose new benchmarking?
PS unions, Labours, FF?

Well the Unions wont, the left wing parties wont, FF are in it to their eyeballs already so they wont (not that they have anything to lose).

So I propose it. To all the candidates that knock on my door, for the locals, the euros, the general election that is just around the corner.*

*Nobody has knocked on my door yet!

solice

grahamo wrote: »

Anything gained through benchmarking by workers is now gone through the pension levy.

Is there tax relief on the levy? Im only asking as private sector workers get tax relief on pension contributions, seeing as this is technically a pension contribution is there tax relief on it?

Riskymove

solice wrote: »

Again, I suggest benchmarking be revisited. If the outcome is a suggestion that PS pay be reduced then it should be. It the outcome is a suggestion that all is well with the way it is then it should be left alone.

and if it recommended an increase in pay?:rolleyes:


benchmarking was a stroke pulled by Mr Fixer our great leader; I think it should be consigned to history and not be used again

grahamo

Count Dooku wrote: »

Who will propose new benchmarking?
PS unions, Labours, FF?

You and Jimmmy!:D:D

Riskymove

solice wrote: »

Is there tax relief on the levy? Im only asking as private sector workers get tax relief on pension contributions, seeing as this is technically a pension contribution is there tax relief on it?

no tax relief

Count Dooku

grahamo wrote: »

Hardly like for like, my friend! If you look again the IKEA jobs were mostly entry level employment where most of the public sector jobs are professional positions offering good career prospects. These are obviously going to attract more candidates!

Today is 2009 and we 200,000 on dole now
IKEA is safe place to hide from crisis
I don’t see many jobs with good career prospects in near future.

In private sector you need to work hard and get less, in public sector you need to work less and get more.
This why it was so popular

grahamo

solice wrote: »

Is there tax relief on the levy? Im only asking as private sector workers get tax relief on pension contributions, seeing as this is technically a pension contribution is there tax relief on it?

I believe there is tax relief. But anything gained through benchmarking was taxed, was it not?

Count Dooku

grahamo wrote: »

You and Jimmmy!:D:D

No way
We will bash PS workers until they will propose benchmarking themselves

solice

grahamo wrote: »

I believe there is tax relief. But anything gained through benchmarking was taxed, was it not?

Of course it was, but I would question if what was gained through the benchmarking was completly wiped out by the levy considering the tax relief

Gumbo

grahamo wrote: »

I believe there is tax relief. But anything gained through benchmarking was taxed, was it not?

iirc there is some sort of tax relief or that it comes off your gross salary or something to that effect, i dont really understand it to be honest.

BUT, in my job, i earn 39k and i pay gross 96e of a pension levy every fortnight and the nett effect of that on my wages is 71e per fortnight, fair enough.

but the fella beside me is on 8k more than me and his gross levy is 121 but because of the tax relief, his nett effect is only something like €59.20, cant remember the exact figure.

so yes there is some sort of tax relief, but the administration of the levy is unfair to people on lower wages as such.

my wage is the only income, my partner lost her job late last year and cant get anything.

Count Dooku wrote: »

No way
We will bash PS workers until they will propose benchmarking themselves

your right, they could do with a wage increase! the mortgage on the villa in spain is starting to hit us hard now!

i hope people have their sarcasim hats on!

Count Dooku

kceire wrote: »

80,000 applied for 3,900 jobs gives a 1:20.5 chance of a job (public sector)
2,000 applied for 100 jobs gives a 1:20 chance of a job (Private Sector)
so faily even terms there imo

Can immigrants without work permit and without citizenship apply for job in PS?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/anger-as-job-seekers-told-to-queue-up-in-the-street-1720300.html

The Griffin Group boss noted the low percentage of Irish applicants for the jobs on offer compared to other nationalities, saying: "There seems to be a lot of networking that goes on among the different nationalities. About 50 per cent of the queue was made up of Brazilians. Only five per cent of the queue was Irish. We would have thought we would have had more Irish applicants."

P. Breathnach

solice wrote: »

Is there tax relief on the levy? Im only asking as private sector workers get tax relief on pension contributions, seeing as this is technically a pension contribution is there tax relief on it?

Yes.

Riskymove

grahamo wrote: »

I believe there is tax relief.

depends what you consider "tax relief".

I was of the opinion that there is no formal tax relief as such ...but...the levy is taken off your gross pay before tax is applied so therefore you end up paying less tax than before

similar result I expect but I wouldn't call it a "tax relief"

solice

Riskymove wrote: »

depends what you consider "tax relief".

I was of the opinion that there is no formal tax relief as such ...but...the levy is taken off your gross pay before tax is applied so therefore you end up paying less tax than before

similar result I expect but I wouldn't call it a "tax relief"

But it all does go toward reducing the effective tax rate.

I dont know if this is relevant to the discussion