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I am paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension
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I never quoted or gave life expectancy figures - you must be thinking of someone elses post
sorry jimmmy but you quoted the figure of 1 million being the value of a pension to a garda who retires at 60yrs - and that figure was based on someones calculation (albeit maybe not your own - one near yours in that bit if thread) that the pension would be paid out over 30 - 40 years. i worked it out based on life expectancy of 18 yrs and got more like 600k. still very high but a long way off a million!
you didn't give a solution to the problem jimmmy - what do you think can be done about it?
A/do we allow gardai to work to 65yrs - i agree with this - which would put their pension into the same value as everyone else - 5% employer contribution
B/and/or do we scrap the PS pension
C/or - i also in favour - make PS-type pension compulsory for everyone?
D/or reduce the PS pension to being cost neutral by reducing payouts (e.g. to 45% of final salary - that would roughly make it cost neutral - being generous and not including any money that state could make from the fund) AND if that is done then make the PS pension non-compulsory - because it is not fair to force people to contribute to something that is worth less or at best no more than what they could get elsewhere.
answer me jimmmy please!!0 -
kindajaded wrote: »a 5% employer contribution is not alot.
It adds up very quickly to an lot of money. Try being an employer and paying it in these difficult times
How much a week or a month do you reckon needs to be put in to a pension pot to add up to the average of over a million euro ( equivalent to that of a Garda who takes early retirement )
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kindajaded wrote: »sorry jimmmy but you quoted the figure of 1 million being the value of a pension to a garda who retires at 60yrs
Its being widely reported in the Media and on RTE as being worth over a million actually. Given the way equities and property funds have fallen, no private life assurance company will given the same benefits / payout to an early retiring Guard ( on average Garda pay ) even for 1 million. 0 -
It adds up very quickly to an lot of money. Try being an employer and paying it in these difficult times
How much a week or a month do you reckon needs to be put in to a pension pot to add up to the average of over a million euro ( equivalent to that of a Garda who takes early retirement )
it is not alot in comparison to typical contributions of those employers who do contribute - see the link http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10006287.shtml
the average was supposedly 16% in private companies in 2006.
now before you start jumping up and down i don't really beleive this is representative of most employers.
the point is that IF you are going to have a pension scheme for employees
and ESPECIALLY IF you are going to make it compulsory 5% employer contribution is NOT high compared to employers who ARE comtributing.
now either scrap it altoghether and we'll have an inpoverished elderly or let the PS lead the way in encouraging employers contribute a minimum of 5% to pensions for their workers - that 5% could be tax free for the employer (i think it already is) so that really couldn't be alot to contribute.0 -
Its being widely reported in the Media and on RTE as being worth over a million actually. Given the way equities and property funds have fallen, no private life assurance company will given the same benefits / payout to an early retiring Guard ( on average Garda pay ) even for 1 million.
jaysus jimmmy - just get a calculator:
retires age 60yrs on 60K:
30k for 18 years = 540,000 euros
plus lump sum = 90k
90+540 = 6300 -
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Its being widely reported in the Media and on RTE as being worth over a million actually. Given the way equities and property funds have fallen, no private life assurance company will given the same benefits / payout to an early retiring Guard ( on average Garda pay ) even for 1 million.
and actually jimmmy that 630k does not account for the roughly 220k that that garda will have paid into the pension fund - this is WITHOUT allowing for interest.
so this pension is worth more like 410k.
and before you start saying, yes well it also goes up with salary increases after retirement- try to calculate the MASSIVE amount that 220k could make in compound interest in a simple savings account for 35 years
AND don't forget that he will NOT get the state pension worth 112k over 18yrs.
so, yes jimmmy, most people here have already agreed with you that those 5 years of getting a pension and not working make a massive difference - if people have on 18yrs left to live when they retire and get 5yrs extra pension and 5 yrs less contributions to it then it makes their pension earnings very high and something (something fair - like not making them retire early) should be done about it.
but you have studiously IGNORED every other bit of the calculations made here apart from the specious assertion that a 5% employer contribution to pension funds is too high.0 -
It adds up very quickly to an lot of money. Try being an employer and paying it in these difficult times
How much a week or a month do you reckon needs to be put in to a pension pot to add up to the average of over a million euro ( equivalent to that of a Garda who takes early retirement )
and to be honest jimmmy if you are an employer and this is what you are saying now i doubt it very much that you ever offered any sort of pension to your employees. it would have cost you roughly 3% (after tax) of each of their earnings extra per week - thats an extra 12 euros from you for a guy on 400 euros per week. now whether that was your choice or theirs not to lose it from their earnings i think you are at best foolish.
"in these difficult times" sort of stuff from people who probably were never good employers to begin with really doesn't gain my sympathy.0 -
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The answer OP is that if your like me you probably are.
My summary for the last year.
Pension contribution made by self: €0.00
Pension contribution by employer: €0.00
Total put away for retirement: €0.00
Taxes paid for 2008: many thousands of euro.
Therefore if just €1 of the many thousands in tax I pay goes to public sector pensions I'm still paying more for them than I can afford for myself.
that thats the nub of it all, I cant afford anymore.
But I dont mind, I'm happy to pay for politicians with more pensions than braincells, teachers who work long hours, garda that will always respond when I call, & the cleanest best hospitals in the worldThere was some poetic lisence in my last paragraph
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Read it again so. I will break it down in to three parts to make it easier for you.
The original poster is not the only one "paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension".
'Tis grand for those who do get public sector pensions, of course.
"Ah shure I'm all right jack, cant all the 1,800,000 people in the private sector continue to support the govt and their employees, and pay for my pension; and get yer employers to cough up for equally generous pensions for yee."
nope, still makes no sense
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Read it again so. I will break it down in to three parts to make it easier for you.
The original poster is not the only one "paying more for somebodys public sector pension than my own Private pension".
'Tis grand for those who do get public sector pensions, of course.
"Ah shure I'm all right jack, cant all the 1,800,000 people in the private sector continue to support the govt and their employees, and pay for my pension; and get yer employers to cough up for equally generous pensions for yee."
Jimmmy, just a quick question... Do you actually work? I just say this because I read through most of the threads were you have been and it would seem to me that you put up a lot of your posts during the normal working day... this is an observation based upon supposition and random assumption and open to informed rebuttal, much like your very own observations which seem to be based upon supposition and random assumption and are always open to informed rebuttal.:D
AND before you have a go at me as to how I am doing exactly the same thing as you, I am on leave for the week doing interviews before I leave my 'cushy' public sector job.
Oh! By the way, feel free to complain about me in any way you want, I am so tired of seeing constant public sector bashing without proper constructive thoughts on what needs to be done in the public sector outside the mantra of cuts, cuts and even more cuts without specifying what exactly you actually mean by cuts, figures and facts from informed sources are what is required not: 'what I saw on telly' Yes, I know I misquoted you! But I felt I had to keep this as short as possible and to condense what you say would take too long and quoting nothing of worth is an exercise in futility.
Rant is now over.
I apologise to the moderators of this fine establishment in advance of a probable ban.
Have a nice day!
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Whats your point then. OK you are tired of "public sector bashing" but whats your solution for the required 20-30% cut in public spending, and don't say reduce the unemployment benefit.Jimmmy, just a quick question... Do you actually work? I just say this because I read through most of the threads were you have been and it would seem to me that you put up a lot of your posts during the normal working day... this is an observation based upon supposition and random assumption and open to informed rebuttal, much like your very own observations which seem to be based upon supposition and random assumption and are always open to informed rebuttal.:D
AND before you have a go at me as to how I am doing exactly the same thing as you, I am on leave for the week doing interviews before I leave my 'cushy' public sector job.
Oh! By the way, feel free to complain about me in any way you want, I am so tired of seeing constant public sector bashing without proper constructive thoughts on what needs to be done in the public sector outside the mantra of cuts, cuts and even more cuts without specifying what exactly you actually mean by cuts, figures and facts from informed sources are what is required not: 'what I saw on telly' Yes, I know I misquoted you! But I felt I had to keep this as short as possible and to condense what you say would take too long and quoting nothing of worth is an exercise in futility.
Rant is now over.
I apologise to the moderators of this fine establishment in advance of a probable ban.
Have a nice day!0
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