Irish economy will have the biggest shrinkage what can we do?

ejmaztec

With costs and prices dropping in countries all over the world, when this is all over, if ours haven't dropped more than our competitors, Ireland will be in the same boat as before - still too expensive to lure in businesses.

thebman

SkepticOne wrote: »

Hmmm. If they are against price increases they are free to request reductions but they don't appear to have done so. Why have they not done so? Those documents on the regulator's site reflect the official voice of the ESB.

I think the ESB are being a little tricky here with their PR on the radio. I doubt if what you were hearing was ESB's main group voice but rather some PR person in ESB's retail division who is not speaking on behalf of ESB as a whole.

There are problems with the electricity market in Ireland but I think the ESB is being entirely truthful with its PR here.

I think the most likely reason they aren't requesting a decrease is because the government (ie. the shareholder) won't let them.

It isn't in their interest to keep prices high. Bord Gais are under cutting them by 10% guaranteed. It is all government controlled and crap policy/regulation.

The ESB would reduce prices overnight if they could as it would kill off the competition and maintain their market share.

SkepticOne

thebman wrote: »

The ESB would reduce prices overnight if they could as it would kill off the competition and maintain their market share.

I don't claim to be an expert here but I would like some evidence that the ESB have an official position to that effect. So far the evidence points to the opposite of this.

If it is just the unofficial opinion of managers or the position of a subsidiary of the ESB then it is of no consequence.

I know this thing about the ESB wanting to reduce prices but are prevented from doing so is being bandied about a lot but there seems to be very little foundation to it.

ionix5891

SkepticOne wrote: »

I don't claim to be an expert here but I would like some evidence that the ESB have an official position to that effect. So far the evidence points to the opposite of this.

If it is just the unofficial opinion of managers or the position of a subsidiary of the ESB then it is of no consequence.

I know this thing about the ESB wanting to reduce prices but are prevented from doing so is being bandied about a lot but there seems to be very little foundation to it.

so far the official position is to reduce market share and they are closing down powerplants, alot of them

its already about 40% of our electricity

SkepticOne

ionix5891 wrote: »

so far the official position is to reduce market share and they are closing down powerplants, alot of them

its already about 40% of our electricity

No, I was asking for some evidence that the official position of the ESB is that they want to reduce prices. I believe you were making this claim.

I have provided documentary evidence that last year they requested and were granted a significant price increase from the regulator.

Nothingbetter2d

Originally Posted by dan719 View Post
Economically that is a disaster;

* The government collects huge levels of taxtion due to excise duty on cigarettes and alcohol, and in a time of reduced tax revenue is even more dependent on same.
* Smokers and heavy drinkers die younger, and that means the government does not have to provide provisions for pensions and medical expenses due to long drawn out illnesses.
* The high incidence of smoking amonst lower socioeconomic classes meant that until recently, a very high percentage of 'dole' money was recuperated through tax.


The main reason for so called pigovian taxes is revenue raising. (See O'Hagan 1982.)

i would consider cancer or suffering a stroke a long drawn out illness... not to mention the cost of cancer/stroke treatments... so either u can kill yourself early from smoking related illnesses or grow old n helpless with old age related illness

either way quitting smoking will have little or no effect on taxes available for health service funding... the gov can earn it on ciggie/booze tax only to spend it on the smoking/drinking related illness treatments (including booze related injuries - fights & drunken driver traffic accidents) OR make many quit due to higher taxes on ciggies / booze and let more of the population grow old and spend taxes on pensions ... nursing homes.... and many old age related hospital treatments.

also higher ciggie/booze taxes would encoarage more illegal importing of said products and result in more of a loss in taxable income for the gov
its really a catch 22 when it comes to excise and duty

GenericUser

thebman wrote: »

I think the most likely reason they aren't requesting a decrease is because the government (ie. the shareholder) won't let them.

It isn't in their interest to keep prices high. Bord Gais are under cutting them by 10% guaranteed. It is all government controlled and crap policy/regulation.

The ESB would reduce prices overnight if they could as it would kill off the competition and maintain their market share.

ESB havent requested a decrease because they hedged their fuel ahead for 6 months at high prices. The 10% decrease has actually come from a temporary decrease in fixed network charges rather then in (their) the actual cost of generation.
Wholesale prices of electricity have dropped considerably (~20%) in the last 6-9 months. This will feed into lower esb rates soon. However as esb customer supply have forward contracts for energy with esb power generation the cost will stay high until those contracts end.

Bord gais and airtricity and what not aren't locked into such contracts and hence can offer lower prices as they buy them competitively in the market. Its all quite complicated but basically in a few months time esb will be able to drop prices again.

It is important to remember that electricity demand has doubled in the last 25 years, without much of an increase in generation and network capacity until recently. Fuel costs have also risen dramatically too.
So comparing our electricity costs with the 1990's isnt possible.
I would also say that while gas follows the same price trends as oil (ie: it goes up when oil goes up - and vice versa) it isnt necessarily the same price as oil.So just because oil costs $50 a barrell doesnt mean gas does too.

All in all electricity will cost less soon, but it wont be much cheaper than 16 cent a unit.
Remember, the cheapest kWh is the kWh not used.

nesf

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

i would consider cancer or suffering a stroke a long drawn out illness... not to mention the cost of cancer/stroke treatments... so either u can kill yourself early from smoking related illnesses or grow old n helpless with old age related illness

From the fiscal perspective you can look at every year past 65 as a "long drawn out illness" in that it turns the individual from a possible net tax contributor into one that costs the Government more money than they generate in tax. Non-smokers cost the Government way more when you actually work out the numbers, they die later and are far more likely to require nursing home care etc et al.