Will Ireland see a waive of mass emmigration?

Serenity Now!

realismpol wrote: »

I just look at countries like sweden, denmark norway, switzerland and see how they have similar populations and how they can create companies such as sabb, build their own fighter jets, stealh subs, engage in car manufacturing then i look at us and what did we do told timoney to bascially f off.

May I point out that Norway and Switzerland are both independent of EU economy and trade with it under their terms within the EEA? Norway has one of the largest oil reserves in the world and its economy is based upon this 'Oljefonden'. It also relies heavily on foreign investment to take up a large percentage of its workforce. (I lived there for five years, by the way). Switzerland has an independent banking sytem upon which its economy is floated upon. Neither build their own cars, military aircraft or submarines (Switzerland! lol)

Thirdfox

Koloman wrote: »

We DON'T have 17% unemployment at the moment! It's 11%, just as in the USA it is 8% as of today! Lets get the facts right. It is projected to get up to 17% by the end of 2010. It might not be as bad as that if we get a bit of luck, which we are due. It all depends on the US.

Do you know what the projected unemployment rate is going to be in the USA at the end of 2010?

Yes, they (CNN) state that it could almost be 10%, but may not hit that high.

If we're going to be absolutely precise it's 11.4% as of now - one of the worst in Europe (still better than Spain though).

We are not due "a bit of luck" - the problems that are affecting Ireland are not merely global recession, but structural problems that are of our own making. If we were to get our just deserts (or the just deserts of the actions of our current government) we still be in this problem. It does not all depend on the US - even if their domestic consumption picks up there is no particularly good reason for them to start re-investing here, as we have dropped to 13th (?) in the competitiveness rankings in Europe.

When you see economic reports that state:

IRELAND IS set for the sharpest fall in economic growth experienced by an industrialised country since the Great Depression, the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) says in a report published today.

The institute’s spring quarterly economic commentary estimates that gross national product will fall by 9.2 per cent this year.

“Our forecasts suggest that Ireland’s economy will contract by around 14 per cent over the three years 2008 to 2010. By historic and international standards this is a truly dramatic development.

It doesn't exactly breed optimism (and believe me, I'm one of the more optimist ones - otherwise I'll just remain in the US or head off to Asia).

And finally, I'm not convinced by what the government is currently doing to address short term and especially long term problems. Even as other countries are seeing a bit of a pick up I worry that the tough times haven't truly begun for Ireland yet.

Hookey

I've only just come back. I don't particularly want to have to leave again, but I have a feeling I may not have a choice.

Saabdub

In October 1987 the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Brian Lenihan, Father of the current Minister for Finance made the following statement:

"I don't look on the type of emigration we have today as being of the same category as the terrible emigration of the last century. What we have now is a very literate emigrant who thinks nothing of coming to the United States and going back to Ireland and maybe on to Germany and back to Ireland again. The younger people in Ireland today are very much in that mould... It (emigration) is not a defeat because the Irish hone their skills and talents in another environment; the more they develop a work ethic in a country like Germany or the US, the better it can be applied in Ireland when they return. After all, we can't all live on a small island."

So the current Government is simply helping you to realize your full potential in the same way their Father's did for the last generation.

The Corinthian

I left just before the credit crunch, partially because I could see that the housing bubble had burst and tough times were ahead.

So my first point is; ha-ha.

Seriously, however, to anyone considering leaving Ireland, I would echo some of the cautionary tales here. Outside of Syria, North Korea and a few other places that make 17% unemployment look like a boomtime, everywhere else has been hit by the credit crunch.

Some more than others, and Ireland doubly so - partially because this coincided with the housing bubble bursting and largely because Ireland never bothered developing it's own industry. We just rented the industry of other countries with tax incentives.

As such, you'll have problems everywhere - however, there are plenty of economies that are far better off than Ireland, even now. Problem is that while the statistics may be better, emigration means losing your network of local contacts (how many have gotten jobs through word of mouth or head-hunting?) and this is a major hit. The local language, if you don't speak it, is another.

If you emigrate, I recommend you are qualified first. If you intend moving for an unskilled job in a factory, forget it. You're a foreigner, and you've nothing more to offer than they can get locally - unless you are willing to work for peanuts. The market for professional roles is still good, especially if you have specific skills, however you will need pieces of paper (degrees, diplomas, postgrads, etc) to prove you can do them.

If you need to survive and can't get anything in Ireland then leave, but do your homework first. If you can afford it take the time while times are bad to skill up so that you can jump back onto the bull on the upswing (or emigrate with qualifications), do that in preference.

djpbarry

realismpol wrote: »

Its so typically irish to run out when the going gets tough.

You made some good points, but on this I have to disagree. A mobile, flexible workforce is an economic advantage - people will (in theory) move from areas of high unemployment to areas of low(er) unemployment, gaining valuable experience and expertise as they go.

Electric Sheep

Saabdub wrote: »

In October 1987 the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Brian Lenihan, Father of the current Minister for Finance made the following statement:

"I don't look on the type of emigration we have today as being of the same category as the terrible emigration of the last century. What we have now is a very literate emigrant who thinks nothing of coming to the United States and going back to Ireland and maybe on to Germany and back to Ireland again. The younger people in Ireland today are very much in that mould... It (emigration) is not a defeat because the Irish hone their skills and talents in another environment; the more they develop a work ethic in a country like Germany or the US, the better it can be applied in Ireland when they return. After all, we can't all live on a small island."

So the current Government is simply helping you to realize your full potential in the same way their Father's did for the last generation.

Nothing changes, including that you can bet that none of our TDs or Ministers have children emigrating.

Tom65

Don't equate 8% unemployment in the US with 13% here. They gather their statistics differently. I don't have time to look up how, but I know the US model cuts the figures quite a bit.

conorlechance wrote: »

hows it like? i presume most cities are not exactly what you would call stereotypically swedish, by that I mean Stockholm Malmo etc. are really multicultural places right?

Is it easy to adapt did you find? I heard in Sweden British culture is fairly big, even more so than American.

It is stereotypically Swedish and it isn't. All the Swedish people look very Swedish, but there is a big multicultural aspect to it too, which is nice.

British culture is big enough. I mean, they have a few British TV shows but I'd say American is still bigger. A lot of the time when Swedes speak English, they speak with an American accent, which is a little strange.

On topic (somewhat), I've read a couple of article about job losses in car manufacturing plants, news today is that Ericsson's profits are down. Nothing to lead one to believe there's a major global economic crisis going on.

rsynnott

Tom65 wrote: »

Don't equate 8% unemployment in the US with 13% here. They gather their statistics differently. I don't have time to look up how, but I know the US model cuts the figures quite a bit.

Yep, a lot of media sources quote a 'real unpemployment' figure for the US which has recently been more than twice the official rate, and even that doesn't cover underemployment and people working for a below-living wage.

Ireland is likely to be particularly slow to recover from this recession, though, so it's quite likely that lots of people will leave.

jenzz

im now partner-less.. He left for the UK last week in search of work. As hes self employed cannot claim anything so having lived on 1 wage since November we were left with no option . I stay continue working ( im on week to week notice) keep the kids in school & survive barely . What choice do we have?

And as for those politicians calling looking for votes not one of them had to guts to comment when I mentioned take him off the voting register as he wont be here to vote.

Acacia

If I had my qualifications , I'd be gone already. I'm only staying to finish college, but with fees maybe coming back, that might be impossible. I don't know if anybody else has seen this but there is some sort of mural/street art thing on the front of the old Dublin Working Man's club,near Fitzsimon's bar (wellington quay, I think), that says ''No Future''. That really sums up Ireland for me right about now.

I really love the country, but there's nothing here for me, or people my age (late teens, twenties). The general consensus among my friends is that there are no jobs here and they're making it harder to go to college. If it doesn't get better soon, I'll be gone.

Why should we (people who had nothing to do with either the boom or the collapse, and, like the OP, my family certainly weren't greedy during the boom, we didn't even have a car up until about 8 years ago) stay here and be punished for the faults of greedy people who were only out for themselves?

I just want a decent, stable job. I don't think that's too much to ask for, and I probably won't find it here.

stevedublin

Saabdub wrote: »

In October 1987 the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Brian Lenihan, Father of the current Minister for Finance made the following statement:

"I don't look on the type of emigration we have today as being of the same category as the terrible emigration of the last century. What we have now is a very literate emigrant who thinks nothing of coming to the United States and going back to Ireland and maybe on to Germany and back to Ireland again. The younger people in Ireland today are very much in that mould... It (emigration) is not a defeat because the Irish hone their skills and talents in another environment; the more they develop a work ethic in a country like Germany or the US, the better it can be applied in Ireland when they return. After all, we can't all live on a small island."

So the current Government is simply helping you to realize your full potential in the same way their Father's did for the last generation.

Why cant we realise our potential in Ireland, without having to go abroad?

conorlechance

i think that mentality is deeply ingrained within our mindset and culture tbh.

all european countries have seen mass emmigration at some point but in ireland we nearly glorify this emmigration, well thats how it seems like to me.

Darith

the_syco wrote: »

To where?

The US & Oz will lessen the visas, ensure the locals are employed first, etc. Many other countries will have a large potition of unemployed themselves.

How does the visa system for Australia , New Zealand and Canada work. If i applied on my qualifications and experience and got a visa based on those would i have to get a job in those fields. In my case it would be Engineering/telecomms. So i got the visa; could i automatically enter those countires and search for work or would i need to have a job before i enter. And what if the only job i got was not in those fields/professions. Does that mean i have to gave up the visa ?

tribulus

Darith wrote: »

How does the visa system for Australia , New Zealand and Canada work. If i applied on my qualifications and experience and got a visa based on those would i have to get a job in those fields. In my case it would be Engineering/telecomms. So i got the visa; could i automatically enter those countires and search for work or would i need to have a job before i enter. And what if the only job i got was not in those fields/professions. Does that mean i have to gave up the visa ?

You should ask that in one of the below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1122
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=916
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1184

Fighting Irish

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Its sad to think that while everybody in the country is either being strangelled with tax or being forced to emigrate to places that offer little hope of employment, Brian Cowen and co. are still extracting the massively, massively inflated salaries that they do. I hate them so much, I really do. Daddy got you your seat, did he Brian? I'd love to see him living on the dole.

jealousy is a bitch
he ****ed up, but so did 99% of ireland.