Tesco bag-packers sent home for wearing GAA kits

IIMII

couerdelion wrote: »

As per the Good Friday agreement surely until a referendum takes place they are Irish people living in the United Kingdom albeit on the ireland of Ireland?

I appreciate what you are saying, but they are Irish people living in Ireland so why shouldn't they collect money for their local team? GAA jerseys don't share the same sectarianist connotations as the Glasgow soccer jerseys

Breezer wrote: »

The IRFU has taken huge steps to include both traditions on this island. 'Ireland's Call' is a load of rubbish but the sentiment behind it is a good one. So Tesco would have felt no need to do this with a rugby team, since rugby offends very few people.

Chances are the Irish national Athem has never been played at that clubs grounds before a match. The anthem has nothing to do with it. I resent that the Irish rugby team stand to attention for the English national anthem when playing in the north, but I wouldn't bawl a bunch of 9 year olds out of it from a local rugby club in the south because of it

Breezer

IIMII wrote: »

Chances are the Irish national Athem has never been played at that clubs grounds before a match. The anthem has nothing to do with it. I resent that the Irish rugby team stand to attention for the English national anthem when playing in the north, but I wouldn't bawl a bunch of 9 year olds out of it from a local rugby club in the south because of it

It probably hasn't. And I agree that a reaction like that is over the top. I can understand where people who feel that way are coming from, that's all.

To the best of my knowledge, "God Save the Queen" isn't played when the Irish team play in Belfast anymore, and rightly so.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I'm huur toi boi oy-funded.

Elements within both communities in Northern Ireland go out of their way to be offended at any given opportunity.

Antrim is predominantly Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist. The GAA is also viewed as a sectarian organisation by some elements within that community. With some good reason when you consider at least one club is named after an INLA hunger striker.

I don't think the majority of people would have had a problem with GAA shirts, but there would certainly be enough complaints to force tesco into changing policy for this incident.

People in that town have gone through suffering at the hands of republicans that we we can't imagine, so anything to express that hurt is going to come out loudly.

Its a sad situation, but ultimately not a surprising one.

Bottle_of_Smoke

keane2097 wrote: »

Why does the Councillor object to the GAA?

He may or may not, but he undoubtedly had busy-bodies demanding he made a stand. He has to be the voice of his community

Davidth88

Breezer wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge, "God Save the Queen" isn't played when the Irish team play in Belfast anymore, and rightly so.

That , and the statement saying that " God save The Queen " is the English Anthem are highly contentous statements to be honest , but way off track. ( If a seperate thread was opened on this I would give my views )

My two penny worth on the OP point , really sport should transend politics , but in reality rarely does.
I am not sure how I would have reacted if I was the local mgmt of that Tesco's I would like to think I would have told the complainer to shove off , but possibly in the heated political area that is NI maybe not.

IIMII

Davidth88 wrote: »

That , and the statement saying that " God save The Queen " is the English Anthem are highly contentous statements to be honest , but way off track.

How? Only the English population accepts that song as their anthem in manner approaching it's entirety. I know for a fact that plenty of Scots don't, and quite a sizable percentage of the Welsh population too.

Deedsie

Shame on the people who complained about the wearing of a jersey. They should be named and shamed. Thats an awful story. poor kids trying to do some fund raising. What right have they to say what jersey the wear.

Same complaint would not be made for a soccer team. But the minute the GAA is involved some twisted backward sectarian has to stick there beak in and complain.

Not far off a hate crime, the prejudice in this story is alarming.

Blazer

Soccer and Rugby are Global games though and transcend politics and other such bull****.

ardmacha

Soccer and Rugby are Global games though and transcend politics and other such bull****

Nonsense, Soccer and Rugby are as much influenced by politics as any other sport.

The councillor named, Andrew Watson may not have been "public representative" in this case and he may have been hard done by with some of this coverage.

http://www.uup.org/newsrooms/latest-news/general/complaint-clarification.php

Ulster Unionist Councillor for South Antrim Adrian Watson has clarified the position of the Ulster Unionist Party following inaccurate comments which appeared on the BBC website which allegedly came from him.

"A story on the BBC website reports that I complained to Tesco following a charity bag pack were children from a local school came along wearing GAA shirts. This is inaccurate. I and the Ulster Unionist Party have no objection whatsoever to Tesco encouraging voluntary, sporting and charitable groups to raise money in their stores.

"It is regrettable that the issue of children collecting money at their local supermarket has received this much negative media attention. The society we are building for the people of Northern Ireland must include a commitment to civil and religious liberty for all.

"I would hope that this does not impact on the ability of other groups to use this scheme to raise money for good causes. I fully recognise that Tesco are well within their right to do provide this service, allowing school groups, clubs and charities the opportunity to raise vital and much needed funds."

"Since the story broke today I have been in touch with the GAA club in question and stressed that I was not involved in the complaint."

Hookey

IIMII wrote: »

How? Only the English population accepts that song as their anthem in manner approaching it's entirety. I know for a fact that plenty of Scots don't, and quite a sizable percentage of the Welsh population too.

Only at sporting events, and then only at some of them. At the Olympics or in F1 the Scots and Welsh are happy to stand up to God Save The Queen. It is the British National Anthem after all (despite the verses about rebellious Scots). Its just that so many of their sports events are against the English, they want a separate identity in that situation.

Having lived in both Scotland and Wales, I'd say the locals are generally no more or less anti-monarchist than the English (an independent Scotland would probably keep the Queen as head of state like Australia or Canada), in fact I'd say the Scots in particular are more monarchist than the English (I know loads of English with republican tendencies; when Australia was having one of its periodic republic votes a few years back I shared an office in London with a lot of Brits and Aussies; the Brits were amazingly more pro-Australian republic than the Aussies were).

oscarBravo

Discussion of God Save the Queen is off-topic.

I'll draw everybody's attention once more to post #10. This thread is already turning into a kneejerk-fest.

future_plans

ardmacha wrote: »

Nonsense, Soccer and Rugby are as much influenced by politics as any other sport.

The councillor named, Andrew Watson may not have been "public representative" in this case and he may have been hard done by with some of this coverage.

http://www.uup.org/newsrooms/latest-news/general/complaint-clarification.php

Ulster Unionist Councillor for South Antrim Adrian Watson has clarified the position of the Ulster Unionist Party following inaccurate comments which appeared on the BBC website which allegedly came from him.

"A story on the BBC website reports that I complained to Tesco following a charity bag pack were children from a local school came along wearing GAA shirts. This is inaccurate. I and the Ulster Unionist Party have no objection whatsoever to Tesco encouraging voluntary, sporting and charitable groups to raise money in their stores.

"It is regrettable that the issue of children collecting money at their local supermarket has received this much negative media attention. The society we are building for the people of Northern Ireland must include a commitment to civil and religious liberty for all.

"I would hope that this does not impact on the ability of other groups to use this scheme to raise money for good causes. I fully recognise that Tesco are well within their right to do provide this service, allowing school groups, clubs and charities the opportunity to raise vital and much needed funds."

"Since the story broke today I have been in touch with the GAA club in question and stressed that I was not involved in the complaint."

So Tesco fabricated the story of a UUP Councilor complaining? I should hope they come up with a better excuse for making a few young children feel like that, other than a few people complained....

thebman

jimmmy wrote: »

To be devils advocate...suppose the boot was on the other foot...suppose they wore celtic or rangers jumpers....suppose a gang of lads wore rangers jumpers in west Belfast packing bags there ...how would that go down with some locals there ?

Gang of lads in Celtic jerseys?

So now a local GAA club fund raising in a Tesco is the same thing as gang of lads in Celtic jerseys?

I think not! Its a recognized sporting organization in the community fund raising for itself and identifying itself as what it is so people can decide if they want to donate or not.

It is ridiculous to suggest they should hide what organization they belong to when it is a legal organization.

Tesco should have told the moaners where to get off. This is discrimination against GAA. Tesco should have refused and said it isn't a political organization, its a sports club.

If someone is offended by a rival sports clubs jersey then tough. I agree with other people that if it was a soccer jersey there would not be a problem anyway. You can say the GAA is an Irish organization but it isn't and even if it was, so what? It is not a crime to be Irish or to identify yourself as such nor should it be insulting to non-Irish people to see Irish people identify themselves as being Irish.

The GAA is a sporting organization. It is not Irish although it does have Irish links. It is not Irish, being Irish is not perquisite to joining.

junder

Maybe the GAA should have put alittle more thought into the idea of naming some of its grounds after dead republican terrorists. You can Thank sinn fein because of its constant moaning about parity of esteem and creation of neutral environments the equal opportunity's qungo has fallen over itself to create neutral work environments so nobody can get offended, such actions have ranged from the removal of plaques commemorating dead ambulance and fire men who died in the various bomb blasts to the banning of football and GAA tops in the work place. As it happens most of the complaints come from the nationalist community moaning about the UK shops over here being involved in UK wide promotions such as BHS (British Home stores)supporting the British Olympic team, to complaints about about people wearing poppies now stores or falling over themselves to ensure they don't offend anybody which leads to over zealous shop managers paranoid about their jobs, still you can't have your cake and eat it, you can't moan to get policy's put into place then moan when they work against you

jimmmy

good points well made junder

IIMII

How are his points well made? He says you can't moan when policies are put in place and they go against you. But the policy is to allow jerseys and as soon as it was the local GAA club's turn, they were shown the door! The soccer, rugby etc teams were not.

Nodin

junder wrote: »

Maybe the GAA (.....)you

A large amount of both dubious and spurious linkage. The 'other side' could say much the same. None of it really addressed the issue of having a go at a few kids over a shirt.

ardmacha

But the policy is to allow jerseys and as soon as it was the local GAA club's turn, they were shown the door! The soccer, rugby etc teams were not.

Exactly, there was a policy of encouraging people to wear their colours until the GAA team came along. A team of any sport should be able to wear their own kit in their own town without being compared to political coat trailing activities.

johnnyskeleton

I dislike the bag packers at the best of times - not that I'm not charitable, it's just that I can pack my own bags thanks very much - so I can see why an Ulster Unionist or two might have been pushed over the edge on this one.

I'd also imagine there is more to the story e.g. the tescos was in a predominantly Unionist part of town or there might have been some jocularity with some of the customers.

ardmacha

I'd also imagine there is more to the story e.g. the tescos was in a predominantly Unionist part of town

So Tesco can discriminate against groups of people depending on what part of town they are in? If the bag packers come from the area served by the shop then they should be able to expect the same treatment as anyone else (even if bag packers are a nuisance).

Deedsie

ardmacha wrote: »

So Tesco can discriminate against groups of people depending on what part of town they are in? If the bag packers come from the area served by the shop then they should be able to expect the same treatment as anyone else (even if bag packers are a nuisance).

Well said, we are not i hope a nation of savages who cant look at someone who's different from them without flying off the handle.

I presume there are laws against prejudice and racism in Ireland? Might be time to start prosecuting a few people?

jimmmy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I dislike the bag packers at the best of times - not that I'm not charitable, it's just that I can pack my own bags thanks very much - so I can see why an Ulster Unionist or two might have been pushed over the edge on this one..

Or maybe the relative of a victim of one of the terrorists after whom some grounds are named ?

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'd also imagine there is more to the story e.g. the tescos was in a predominantly Unionist part of town or there might have been some jocularity with some of the customers.

I would think you are correct there, in imagining there is more to the story.

oscarBravo

Perhaps if there was less energy expended on "imagining" what "might" have happened here, there might be more available for determining and discussing what actually did happen.

Orizio

Breezer wrote: »

It comes from the fact that the GAA was set up more or less as the sporting wing of Irish nationalism, flies the Tricolour at its matches, plays Amhrán na bhFiann as its anthem and heavily promotes the use of the Irish language. Some people are deeply offended by this ideology and these symbols, which is understandable when you consider they may have had family or friends murdered in the name of the same ideology by groups using the same symbols. Other people are just scumbags looking for a fight.

I think the GAA will eventually have to make some compromises on these issues if it wants to become a truly all-embracing community organisation in the North the way it is in the South. As a GAA fan and proud Irishman who completely rejects the IRA and wants to see a deep and lasting peace in Northern Ireland, I have very mixed feelings about this. It's not the GAA's fault that dissident republicans use the same symbols as it does. But until some sort of compromise is reached, this sort of thing will keep happening.

This may be true in the late 19th century - and I doubt it was - how is this relevent today? The GAA is neither a wing for Irish nationalism now nor does it care about the Irish language (a largely irrelevent matter today anyway).

Beyond that, all this really shows is a truly incredible amount of moral cowardice on behalf of both Tesco and the Ulster councillor, unacceptable in any free liberal society.

jimmmy

There is no imagining about what some of the people ( whom grounds are named after ) did. As someone else wrote "Maybe the GAA should have put alittle more thought into the idea of naming some of its grounds after dead republican terrorists. You can Thank sinn fein because of its constant moaning about parity of esteem and creation of neutral environments the equal opportunity's qungo has fallen over itself to create neutral work environments so nobody can get offended, such actions have ranged from the removal of plaques commemorating dead ambulance and fire men who died in the various bomb blasts to the banning of football and GAA tops in the work place. As it happens most of the complaints come from the nationalist community moaning about the UK shops over here being involved in UK wide promotions such as BHS (British Home stores)supporting the British Olympic team, to complaints about about people wearing poppies now stores or falling over themselves to ensure they don't offend anybody which leads to over zealous shop managers paranoid about their jobs, still you can't have your cake and eat it, you can't moan to get policy's put into place then moan when they work against you"

Orizio

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Soccer and Rugby are Global games though and transcend politics and other such bull****.

Sarcasm? Because no one can actually think this - remember the importance of 'global' (which are also very local in most cases, and often take on local pecularities) sports in South Africa during the aparthied regime for example?

Orizio

I'm confused as to why this particular GAA club and the little children of this GAA club should be punished for the names of some other GAA clubs?

IIMII

jimmmy wrote: »

Or maybe the relative of a victim of one of the terrorists after whom some grounds are named ?

St. Comgall wasn't a 'terrorist'. He lived 15 hundred years ago, 500 years before England became a state, and a good 1300 years before the 1800 Act of Union

oscarBravo

Orizio wrote: »

...all this really shows is a truly incredible amount of moral cowardice on behalf of both Tesco and the Ulster councillor, unacceptable in any free liberal society.

Would that be the councillor who was at pains to point out that he had no hand, act or part in this, and that he fully supported the GAA club's right to collect money in this way?

Orizio wrote: »

I'm confused as to why this particular GAA club and the little children of this GAA club should be punished for the names of some other GAA clubs?

I'm confused as to why you're jumping to the conclusion that this is what happened, just because others have speculated that it might be a reason for what happened.

IIMII

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Rugby ... Global game

I'll let Tom Humpreys cover that:

Restoring Geographical Parameters in an Ovoid World: Our keynote speaker Vasco da Gama will present first hand and credible testimony as to the actual size of the world from people who have been there and bought keyrings. Mr da Gama will present evidence which will put into challenging perspective the news that Ireland is now fourth in the world at rugby. Many RWR members have sought advice on mannerly ways of dealing with the news that Ireland has attained such a standing and have said they no longer feel comfortable with the traditional shrug of the shoulders, the rolling of the eyes and merely asking is that fourth place counting that unfortunate Uruguayan team who had to eat each other and slipped to fifth? Cartographers will explain about the small fragment of Europe which tries to play the game and the three Southern Hemisphere countries who are actually good at it.
Advanced students with a special interest in this field are invited to an evening time colloquium, Swallowing the Heino, at which speakers and contributors will informally consider the hitherto unchallenged notion that winning the Heino makes you European champions. Convincing evidence will be heard that the The Council of Europe has 47 member states. Six of these states put teams into the Heino. Teams from three of these six countries have won the Heino. Six countries.
That means the Heino isn’t refreshing the parts that others sports reach. Champions of 8 per cent of Europe. The European weightlifting championships in Bucharest some weeks ago drew representatives from 24 countries. The European beach volleyball tour (118 million viewers last season) has reps of 20 European countries. Don’t go there with the hoops and the ice hockey.