Proposed Premiership 2 Tier League

syngindub

Wondering what peoples views are on the discussions taking place in June where a 2 tier league are likely to be discussed.
There is also the issue of perhaps Celtic and Rangers switching into the league.
Not sure myself is this will ever get off the ground but if it did happen it surely would destroy Scottish Football but what are the implications for English football also?
I'm all for changing things every now and then but is this a step too far?

Pepe LeFrits

Sounds like they want to add Celtic & Rangers, trim the league sizes and rename the Championship...

OPENROAD

Definitely do not want Celtic or Rangers in the premiership

syngindub

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Sounds like they want to add Celtic & Rangers, trim the league sizes and rename the Championship...

Thats what it sounds like alright.

The Big Clubs have always being saying that they play far too many games during the year so you think this might be a good idea.

If it did go 2 tier, would they give 2 CL places to the second tier. That would certainly shake things up and give more revenue to the smaller clubs.
Perhaps this is why the big 4 are reluctant.

ShooterSF

Need to read more bout the 2 tier league to get an idea on it but if it's anything like the leagues last idea (39th game) I won't be to happy.

On the Celtic, Gers thing, let's ignore the issue of them moving straight to the top league for a second wouldn't they have to give up any chance of European football ala Cardiff last season in the FA cup? They were told as a non-english club even if they won the FA cup they couldn't progress to Europe through an English tournament.

syngindub

ShooterSF wrote: »

Need to read more bout the 2 tier league to get an idea on it but if it's anything like the leagues last idea (39th game) I won't be to happy.

On the Celtic, Gers thing, let's ignore the issue of them moving straight to the top league for a second wouldn't they have to give up any chance of European football ala Cardiff last season in the FA cup? They were told as a non-english club even if they won the FA cup they couldn't progress to Europe through an English tournament.

That was Cardiff though in all fairness. If the issue was qualification for Europe, i m sure 2 heavyweights like celtic and gers would get them rules bent some what. Rules are there to be broken

ShooterSF

syngindub wrote: »

That was Cardiff though in all fairness. If the issue was qualification for Europe, i m sure 2 heavyweights like celtic and gers would get them rules bent some what. Rules are there to be broken

I'd really hope not. Every club, big or small, should be subject to the same rules

kippy

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'd really hope not. Every club, big or small, should be subject to the same rules

Yeah, but the fact is rules are broken to suit the particular need at the time.
It happens on a weekly basis.
Recent occurances of it would be Liverpool qualifying for champions league despite finishing fifth in league. I know the ins and outs of this and realise it was a ludicrious situation and precidents had been set before, but the rules had to be changed (from the PL side I believe) in order for them to enter the next year.
Also, seeding rules appear to be changed in the CL from time to time......when the "bigger" clubs are slipping down the group stages due to the loss of potential TV money.

Personally I wouldnt like to see whatever is being proposed happen, but at the end of the day money talks and everyone knows that the clubs will end up breaking away anyway if they so chose.

invincibleirish

If clubs really want a PL2 let them have it, but the CL places belong to England do they not? ergo Celtic & Rangers will have to forfeit the right to claim a CL place in the PL. Perhaps they can play an under 21/23 team in their place in the Scottish league just to amplify how silly this idea is.

Guy:Incognito

Is it not just some musings of Phil Gartside at a PL chairmans drink up?. I doubt it'll lead anywhere.


Leave football alone.

everdead.ie

Actually the big clubs are ment to be against it as it means that lots of revenue is lost because gartside wants the money spread evenly between the two divisions it also means only on club from the premier division 2 will drop into the football league.

I wouldn't like to see this come in myself and one more point is that the league it's self opposed uefa when they wanted to bring the numbers down to 18 in the premier league before.

JPA

Stupid idea and brought up by a chairman who's afraid of relegation and it's implications.

therecklessone

ShooterSF wrote: »

On the Celtic, Gers thing, let's ignore the issue of them moving straight to the top league for a second wouldn't they have to give up any chance of European football ala Cardiff last season in the FA cup? They were told as a non-english club even if they won the FA cup they couldn't progress to Europe through an English tournament.

My recollection may be hazy, but my understanding was that Cardiff were told by the FA that they would not nominate them for entry to Europe as they were not members of the FA. Uefa rules would not have precluded them from entry, just that the FA would not be putting them forward.

As such, that "rule" is there to be broken.

ArmaniJeanss

Theres never been a problem with Derry City taking a 'Republic of Ireland' European place, so don't see how the Old Firm couldn't operate under the same precedent.

Random

Seems to be you're just screwing over the Division one teams here in England by throwing a couple of teams in above them?

I say let Celtic / Rangers join in Division 4 and work their way up. That'd be an interesting couple of seasons.

_blank_

Random wrote: »

Seems to be you're just screwing over the Division one teams here in England by throwing a couple of teams in above them?

I say let Celtic / Rangers join in Division 4 and work their way up. That'd be an interesting couple of seasons.

this is the way it should be

but the money men will dictate otherwise.

Celtic and Rangers will play in a "British League" sooner or later. In my lifetime is my guess.

Fools will welcome it, football purists will be against it, and be ridiculed by the easily led as being stuck in the past.

You are welcome to quote this post in 20 years

Eirebear

Random wrote: »

Seems to be you're just screwing over the Division one teams here in England by throwing a couple of teams in above them?

I say let Celtic / Rangers join in Division 4 and work their way up. That'd be an interesting couple of seasons.

Your forgetting that the Premiership (like the SPL in Scotland) is a seperate entity to the rest of the leagues. When you win the championship you gain an invite to become a member of the premiership.

With that in place it is possible for the Premiership teams to invite Rangers and Celtic to join them. However for euopean places they would need to gain license from the FA of England.
This is where the smaller clubs come in, as i dont think Rangers or Celtic would be willing to move without the ability to eventually compete for european places...it would be a pointless excercise if they couldnt.

Now onto my personal opinion.

I have mixed feelings over it, Rangers are a scottish club and in many ways i want them to stay that way. However it is of my feeling that they outgrew the SPL around 15 years ago and it has since stifled them, as they tried to compete with the big boys in Europe, but the financial muscle of the Champions league has knocked them flat.
The old firm have a dangerous, yet symbiotic relationship with the rest of scotland, to stay strong they must buy players from smaller more cash strapped clubs, but that is their only return as the "pulling power" of the smaller clubs amounts to very little.
The Old Firm are killing Scottish football, but Scottish Football is killing the Old Firm.

I also would have no real regret in leaving the other clubs behind, despite all their moaning and whining, they seem to have forgotten about their "Old Firm GTF" campaign only a few years ago, when there was talk of trying to kick us out of the SPL over a TV deal.

However, it already seems that FIFA are trying to push for the UK national team, with the Olympics being the first step...Scottish teams in an English league would only make that push even stronger.

I never want to see that.

DSB

Believe me, the Old Firm would have to start ALOT lower than the 4th tier of English football. Anything else and you'll have lawsuits all over the shop. Rightly so too.

ziggy

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Highsider

Money will decide like usual. Expect them in the league within the next 10 years.

Benedict XVI

Wow an Irish team in the EPL, that would be brilliant !!!!!:rolleyes:

Mitch Connor

therecklessone wrote: »

My recollection may be hazy, but my understanding was that Cardiff were told by the FA that they would not nominate them for entry to Europe as they were not members of the FA. Uefa rules would not have precluded them from entry, just that the FA would not be putting them forward.

As such, that "rule" is there to be broken.

indeed - it is because Cardiff are not part of the FA (of England) they are still governed by the FAW, so suspensions players get go through the FAW, for instance. As they are not part of the FA, they can't represent the FA in Europe. Cardiff have previously tried to win the FAW Cup with reserve sides in order to get into Europe.

For Rangers and Celtic to get into Europe via a two tier Premier League, they would have to give up membership of the SFA and seek membership of the FA, as far as i know.

Cardiff are similarly reported to be in talks to quit the FAW and join the FA for just this reason.

Boskowski

syngindub wrote: »

If it did go 2 tier, would they give 2 CL places to the second tier. That would certainly shake things up and give more revenue to the smaller clubs.

It certainly would shake things up as it would turn the CL into a farce as actual champions can't get in while some donkey team from some donkey league from godknowswhere in England would get a spot. Don't you love it how it's all about sports and not about money?

spockety

ziggy wrote: »

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If that's the case, why do the Football League allow three teams who have been ejected from the Premier League at the end of every season to simply walk into the top flight of the Championship?

SectionF

kippy wrote: »

Personally I wouldnt like to see whatever is being proposed happen, but at the end of the day money talks and everyone knows that the clubs will end up breaking away anyway if they so chose.

Money only talks if fans choose to let it, by acting purely as consumers,which is precisely where Sky 4 and the other megabrands want them. If people show that they are more discriminating and want real football with real competition, then it won't work.

If EPL can do this, then why shouldn't clubs from other countries and leagues in other countries do the same? It'd be chaos.
It's total nonsense and reflects the insanity wrought by the undue influence of business in the sport.

leninbenjamin

I like the idea of resizing the PL, with the league cup and FA for domestic teams to compete in even 38 games is too much i feel. 34 games would allow the smaller teams with smaller squads to be more competitive and might cause a few more upsets.

as for a PL2, not bothered, but if rebranding gives the championship teams more exposure then i wouldn't see a problem with it.

as for the old firm, couldn't care less either way.

Eirebear

spockety wrote: »

If that's the case, why do the Football League allow three teams who have been ejected from the Premier League at the end of every season to simply walk into the top flight of the Championship?

There is no IF about it, thats how it works.

The Football League could, in theory, cut the Premiership loose and declare the Championship as being the "top" league in England. But where would the sense in that be in that?

The money that has been pumped into the Championship due to the premierships "parachute payments" make it the high profile league that it is right now.

DSB

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Premiership clubs that were relegated at the expense of the Old Firm would have the right to, I'd imagine. Either way, it is a silly discussion to be having. It will NEVER happen, and nor should it.

Mr. Presentable

The two Scottish clubs will be in the UK (English) Premier League as direct replacements for Man U and Chelsea when they abscond to the Euro League.

loyatemu

Promotion and relegation is done by agreement between the different leagues - the PL at the top, then the FL, then the Blue Square (Conference) etc on down. Until recently there was no automatic promotion from the Conference to the Football League. The PL could in theory cut the FL loose, but it would cause ructions within the FA.

The reason the PL was formed was so that they could keep all the TV money they generate for themselves, previously it was shared between the old 4 divisions. The bigger teams in the championship want a PL2 so they don't have to share TV money with the teams in League1 and League2. Its all about money and self interest really.

Main obstacle to Celtic and Rangers joining the PL is FIFA - they are dead set against any shake up of football's existing structures, and the Scottish FA would also do everything in their power to block it.

DSB

And I also doubt the Premiership actually have any interest in Celtic and Rangers being in the league. Its hardly Barca and Inter or something like that. 2 clubs who rarely get past the first CL knockout stage despite having pretty much guaranteed entry every year. Celtic and Rangers would benefit far more from being in the Premiership, than the Premiership would benefit from them being in it.