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The Irish just accept things!
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local policians? Just had a hopefull candidate call whilst i had my head under the bonnet of my car...."Nice Motor" says he..."would be if it ran " I said...."oh whats wrong with it ?" was his answer......
well if I knew that!!!!!
btw there was SIX of them...5 of whom never said a word....0 -
local policians? Just had a hopefull candidate call whilst i had my head under the bonnet of my car...."Nice Motor" says he..."would be if it ran " I said...."oh whats wrong with it ?" was his answer......
well if I knew that!!!!!
btw there was SIX of them...5 of whom never said a word....
They're like the "Men in Black".:D0 -
Indeed, I think you're right to bear in mind that the reason Zanu FF hold power is because people vote for them in large numbers. Using Occam's Razor, the most obvious explanation is that people vote for the party that gives them what they want. I'm not saying that's the right explanation - just that it needs to be seriously considered before being discounted.
That said, there is also some evidence of a disconnect between the voting process and what government ends up doing. I follow and contribute to discussions on politics.ie a bit. One of the things I've noticed is how you'll have threads that concentrate on what you'd expect to be matters of importance - banking crisis and whatever. But if you visit some of the threads about the local elections (or any past elections) at the constituency level there's still an awful lot of the 'O'Gombeen can be expected to poll very well around Naas, but the other crowd are running a terrible risk in having two candidates with a Newbridge base thus splitting their vote' as if the actual content of the party programmes, or their record in office, where actually quite minor affairs.
But whatever motivates people to vote, we do have to acknowledge that the reason Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach for so long (and the reason the most likely alternative to Brian Cowen is Enda Kenny) is because that's what the electorate have freely chosen. I think the general point you make is valid enough, but this element struck me as wrong. Dublin Airport actually has plenty of space for expansion, as there was some foresight in that individual case (however that happened). What might reward study is how our main airport ended up with a runway too short to take long-haul jets. The upshot seems to be that we’ll end up with a larger terminal that we now won’t need, but without the runway that might help to fill it.
In fact, considering how resources were allocated to airports illuminates why Irish politics can frequently be like the property market. All that matters is location, location, location. It doesn’t matter what most of the staff of the Legal Aid Board do, if anything, so long as they do it in Cahirciveen.
Again, it comes back to how the act of voting in Ireland seems to be almost an uncontrolled spasm. I haven’t a damn clue what people get up to when they’re marking that ballot. But its hard to relate to making serious choices about how the country’s affairs might be managed. Chalk up another sale. Sounds like the perfect Christmas present. (And I'm not kidding).
What a coincidence. I do believe I'm reading a copy of your debate on Aine Brady's blog circa 2007 re. Platform 11's stance on a few matters. Hopefully she'll settle into the minister for state job and spare the rest of us her ill-informed press releases on local transport matters.;)0 -
derro cant wait for my appointment for the interview :cool:
you already know my basic position. i am a layman. i use trains a lot, i drive a lot. i use the luas and the bus a lot.
what is this about? simple. its about moving human beings form a to b.
that's it, nothing more complicated than that, really. once you have grasped that nettle, when you actually realise that is all you have to do, then and only then can you plan.
so, why is the bus routes in dublin lined out on the basis of the tran lines we pulled up 50 years ago?
why are most train services still sticking to the same timetable as 100 years ago?
why do we see 120 buses being taken off the road in dublin instead of a big push to take people out of their cars to fill them?
how come i only realised there was a bus at 3 am from dublin to roscrea because i was buying a roll in a shop and if i wasn't i would never have found out??
is simple.
it is joined up thinking - we dont have it. we have camps, all they care about is what is happening inside their camp, and if you try to invade their space they will react. they will stiffen up, go ridgid, not do anything.
Right, we are now with our backs to the wall. I heard one camp decrying metro north, who said that the spending on it is a waste. why/
you will love this: There is no point in spending billions to attract jobs that may never come.
sounds familier?
what about dublin bus and bus eirnann???
here is their logic. We want to save money... we want to be in profit. We have an option. 1 is to seek to attract people to our service. 2, admit our service is rubbish and cut it.
they go for 2!!!!
what, exactly , is the cut off point? Will BAC decide to cut all bus services as they are still making a loss??
isnt this the sort of "we wont cut off our nose desppite our face" stuff we heard last august when the government were saying "we learnt the lessons of the 80's!!! we wont make the same mistakes again!"
but they are, and they will.
I wonder what the aborted oireachtas committee inquiry into the mini CTC project would have, ahem, unearthed. What else has been buried???
it is easy to speculate.
but what to do, what to do???
We need to attract, we need to be like a blue light in a butchers shop. If london had an interocnneter, we need one, no bull, just frackin build it because if we dont Boris will tell everyobe he has one and we dont.
finish the bloody motorways and bloody fast. the scandal of the N7/8 cannot be repeated.
we need guanranteed rail services at a min of 100 mph at a freq of 2 hours - and 1 hour dublin to cork and belfast - from 6 am to 10 pm. no quaters given and taken, that is it.
we need a DART to be frakkin Rapid and running at 5 mins. In 1997 i brought a russian friend to connolly on a sunday.... he was, in a stoic russian manner, amazed at the fact that the DART was running every 20 mins..... it still is!!!
we need surbubann trains running every 20 mins.
oh and finally, and i am sorry mr and mrs green... we need the whole frackin network electrified and we need a nuclear power station!!!
the very idea of buying diesel trains in an era when peak oil is upon us is national scuicide.
but we live in an era of not looking beyound the next balance sheet.... and if you do not believe that you aint been reading the last two budgets.
(and i have not event mentioned broadband....)0 -
OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »A recent Mercer study showed that Ireland's infrastructure and public transport is among the best in the world...
Eh what infastructure.. and what public transport?! We have the most shocking haphazard cobbling together of disconnected modes of transport in the Western World.. Seriously, have you been outside of Ireland to another major city! Im not having a go at you, but dont take everything you read as gospel!0 -
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Ah, Aine Brady, why does that name ring a bell?DWCommuter wrote: »Hopefully she'll settle into the minister for state job and spare the rest of us her ill-informed press releases on local transport matters.;)0 -
Eh what infastructure.. and what public transport?! We have the most shocking haphazard cobbling together of disconnected modes of transport in the Western World.. Seriously, have you been outside of Ireland to another major city! Im not having a go at you, but dont take everything you read as gospel!
Huh? I regularly use Irish Rail and I never had a significant problem with it. Go online, book ticket, use ticket, take train, get off train. You can even buy a single ticket to take you on the Dart, Luas and Intercity train. What else to you want? The driver to make you tea and give you a massage? Or a train that stops outside your house?
Yes I've been all over the world, and the grass as green as you think. Maybe you could point to another country's public transport and tell me exactly what's so earth shatteringly better? Don't forget, most of the time, when we experience foreign public transport, it's only a brief 'passing through' experience. Chances are everything will be fine.0 -
OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »Huh? I regularly use Irish Rail and I never had a significant problem with it. Go online, book ticket, use ticket, take train, get off train. You can even buy a single ticket to take you on the Dart, Luas and Intercity train. What else to you want? The driver to make you tea and give you a massage? Or a train that stops outside your house?
Yes I've been all over the world, and the grass as green as you think. Maybe you could point to another country's public transport and tell me exactly what's so earth shatteringly better? Don't forget, most of the time, when we experience foreign public transport, it's only a brief 'passing through' experience. Chances are everything will be fine.
Brief passing through my ass.. the amount of time over about 15 years of my life that have been wasted waiting for buses that show up late or not at all. Sure we have the Luas which is great, but we have TWO tracks for christ sake, which aren't even interconnected!
I cant say have ever used the trains to be honest, but I hear of endless complaints of overcrowding for a start. Honestly how on earth you can say we have anything other than a shocking transport system is beyond me. Have you ever relied on Dublin Bus with regularity? Which the majority of dublin commuters without cars have to rely on.. Total disaster, end of..
What do other cities have?! Eh a reliable transport system.. An underground for a start. How many english cities have em never mind London. Paris excellent underground system, as does Barcelona and New York. And in comparison we have dublin bus..:rolleyes:0 -
OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »Huh? I regularly use Irish Rail and I never had a significant problem with it. Go online, book ticket, use ticket, take train, get off train. You can even buy a single ticket to take you on the Dart, Luas and Intercity train. What else to you want? The driver to make you tea and give you a massage? Or a train that stops outside your house?
Yes I've been all over the world, and the grass as green as you think. Maybe you could point to another country's public transport and tell me exactly what's so earth shatteringly better? Don't forget, most of the time, when we experience foreign public transport, it's only a brief 'passing through' experience. Chances are everything will be fine.
This is a joke!
You must be a Fianna Fail spin doctor if you think there's anything good about trains and buses in Ireland. Every time I have a brief 'passing through' experience with public transport in Ireland I remind myself why it is I don't live there. Just to point out a few things...
- Intercity trains that stop in the Portarlington metropolis
- Trains that stop at random points on tracks with no announcements
- Rip-off ticket prices (in relation to service)
- A "few minutes late is good enough" attitude to punctuality
- Too many jobs-for-life staff, often rude
If the grass isn't greener in other countries, it's not because Ireland's public transport system matches up, it's because Ireland gets more rain!0 -
Yep, you got me...Fianna Fail spin doctor here.
Everyone thinks their own country's public transport is sub par. Especially in Ireland. I used to complain like everyone else, but as soon as a took off the "everything is worse in Ireland" goggles, I realised that it wasn't that bad. Things are improving all the time - I haven't experienced lateness that often in the last few years (and yes, I rely on Dublin Bus).
I was waiting for a bus in England and it was 15 mins late, but I didn't condemn the whole system because of it. You know the saying, "You wait an hour for a bus and then 2 show up at once" - that wasn't invented in Ireland.
The reality is, people are quick to complain, and some will never admit when things improve. In my opinion, grumpiness and bitter negativity is a far greater problem in this country than any issue we may have with public transport.0 -
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Brief passing through my ass..
What do other cities have?! Eh a reliable transport system.. An underground for a start. How many english cities have em never mind London. Paris excellent underground system, as does Barcelona and New York. And in comparison we have dublin bus..:rolleyes:
And My next question to the Londoner,Parisian,Barcelonan or New Yorker would be...."Hey Joe,how much Local Taxation do you pay"
"Hey joe,how much is your domestic rates bill this year ?"
"Hey Joe,How much is your Community Charge this year?"
The Grass IS Greener on the continent,but only because Johnny Foreigner has always been required to PAY for it.
As a result the continental systems work in a joined up and seamless manner ......best defined as being due to the understanding of the term Common or Greater Good....I`m sorry people,but the lowest common denominator principle beloved of Irish Public Transport administrators has brought us to where we are today !!Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Aleksmart
I do agree on the local taxation issue, but local taxation on the continent is far lower than the United Kingdom or the United States for that matter. But this fails to account for the fact that we pay a lot more for healthcare for example.
We also have a problem with trust. The legacy of the Haughey years have been pernicious and they trickle through to this very day. If we don't trust. we don't pay. If we don't pay theres no accountability. The move in 1977 to take away local taxation was a political masterstroke.
It ensured that a whole generation of corrupt cronies and politicians could pillage and loot, and never be called to account for it, or that the occasional token head would roll. This is because we have the likes of Denis O'Brien doing business with Michael Lowry, and we end up with some small problems with cable ploughing on Iarnrod Eireann's permanent way. This is why Liam Lawlor "disappeared" in Moscow, and it suited Fianna Fail to blame the Russian Mafia when his own people likely did it to keep his mouth shut. The same with Michael McDonnell of CIE, why did he commit suicide, when he had a good life. Wa he threatened as well? The same with Ray Burke, and the links to the cronies go higher than that. Fianna Fail are a mafia, and they blame Sinn Fein when they are no better themselves. The difference is, Fianna Fail has money, they have links to cronies, they have power, and they turn a blind eye. No doubt I will annoy the moderators by my implications, but I am willing to edit that should they wish.
And I am ashamed to say that I wanted them to win the 2007 election, because I wanted them to clean up the economic mess they would inherit from themselves. Sadly, can we honestly say that it would turn so toxic so fast?
This is because we have the likes of suicides on account of a Dail investigation into CIE and Iarnrod Eireann. Not naming anyone, and even mentioning that is in bad taste. But covering it up is worse.
Generally people in Ireland don't give two hoots for local elections. The perception is that the councils are full of bone headed idiots with no talent whatsoever save for family and business connections. Its a gravy train and no more.
Thats why noone pays, or wants to pay. Liam St John Devlin summed it up in 1974:
"In England, the passenger pays, in Europe the taxpayer pays, but in Ireland, noone pays"
For this reason, I believe Irelands costs are imbalanced and skewed towards consumption taxes which affect the lowest earning segment harder than any other country I know, and there is a huge gap in land taxation. Land taxation is taxed in a haphazard "one off" manner, where it should be taxed in a long term cash-flow manner, where there is a residential land allowance per person of (say) 25 square meters per person, before the surplus above that is taxed, with an additional taxes based on the rental valuation of homes in the area. This would give a fair tax and a constant cashflow to the exchequer, but noone dares bite the bullet and do taht.
It would also enable Ireland to reduce or remove other stealth taxes, enable a reduction in wages to take place so that the economy would be competitive again.
But that won't happen until its too late, and its not as if we have a Military Dictator or an Iron Lady in the wings ready to take the hard decisions.
And this recession, we will pay, but will it be the catalyst that leads to proper accountability and functioning services, particularly when we rose to the heights we did.0 -
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It costs $50,000 to get someone bumped off in Russia. When Millions in unpaid taxes are likely to be uncovered, its worthwhile. It costs even less to bribe the police to cover it up.0
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The irony is that here in Ireland, it is not that "no-one pays". We all pay individually far more than we would if there were proper taxation with proper services provided. And as dermo pointed out, our "system" is disproportionately harsh on the poor (it's so bad that it is the reason that people on a decent wage compared to other European countries, are poor here - and thats despite being outside the tax net, again unlike other countries).0
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it ensured that a whole generation of corrupt cronies and politicians could pillage and loot, and never be called to account for it, or that the occasional token head would roll. This is because we have the likes of Denis O'Brien doing business with Michael Lowry, and we end up with some small problems with cable ploughing on Iarnrod Eireann's permanent way. This is why Liam Lawlor "disappeared" in Moscow, and it suited Fianna Fail to blame the Russian Mafia when his own people likely did it to keep his mouth shut. The same with Michael McDonnell of CIE, why did he commit suicide, when he had a good life. Wa he threatened as well? The same with Ray Burke, and the links to the cronies go higher than that. Fianna Fail are a mafia, and they blame Sinn Fein when they are no better themselves. The difference is, Fianna Fail has money, they have links to cronies, they have power, and they turn a blind eye. No doubt I will annoy the moderators by my implications, but I am willing to edit that should they wish.
Dermo88,I would be surprised and disappointed if the Mods took fright at your sentiment,for it lists what are essentially facts....it`s only the reasoning behind them thats open to conjecture.
The late Michael McDonnell was one of the few senior CIE executives who appeared to have a perception of what was happening to the group in financial terms and was moving to deal with that situation (as in accountability for DSFA "Free Travel" railway journies).
The sad and lonely manner of his death left so many questions unanswered as to did Liam Lawlors passing in what we are told was a "Car Crash".
However Dermo88,you are SO correct in your timeline here.....The move in 1977 to take away local taxation was a political masterstroke.
This,to me,represents the beginning of the end for any principle of equitable self-governence in Ireland.
The political masterstroke engineered by Dr Martin O Donoghue (Where is HE now) laid the groundwork for generations of people who really did believe money grew on trees.
Abolish Rates.
Abolish Motor Tax.
If ever there was a Vote Winner here be it....and the scary thing is,if Dr O Donoghue were to once more walk amongst us scattering his wisdom we would vote the exact same way !!!! :eek:Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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I am considering moving this over to Politics. I will check back in one hour's time to see if it still spouting political conspiracy theories or has gone back to the substantive issue of how we could perhaps change Irish apathy towards government transport policy.
Dermot88 - We do not need to know how much it costs to get a professional hit in Russia. It's off topic for this thread and forum as are conspiracy style theories regarding dead politicians.
AlekSmart, any more back seat moderation trying to pre-empt what I or any moderator might think about how this thread is progressing and you will get a holiday from Commuting and Transport.0 -
So folks, here's a challenge.
Let's think of magic ways commuting can be transformed without changing our political masters.
I know - here's some posters from Transport for London that are really effective.
Now, isn't that sort of thing much more effective than questioning our masters?
:rolleyes:0 -
I am considering moving this over to Politics. I will check back in one hour's time to see if it still spouting political conspiracy theories or has gone back to the substantive issue of how we could perhaps change Irish apathy towards government transport policy.
Dermot88 - We do not need to know how much it costs to get a professional hit in Russia. It's off topic for this thread and forum as are conspiracy style theories regarding dead politicians.
AlekSmart, any more back seat moderation trying to pre-empt what I or any moderator might think about how this thread is progressing and you will get a holiday from Commuting and Transport.
Seems a little heavy-handed, this kind of moderation....
Maybe Calina needs a holiday too
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OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »The reality is, people are quick to complain, and some will never admit when things improve. In my opinion, grumpiness and bitter negativity is a far greater problem in this country than any issue we may have with public transport.
You are right to a certain extent. There have been improvements in transport in Ireland. The Aircoach is an excellent service. And the motorways, as far as they go, are a major step forward.
My gripe is more about how public transport in Ireland is run. I understand that with the population densities of the island, we're not going to have a national rail network like the Netherlands.
But a city the size of Dublin should have a transport system on a par with cities like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Valencia, Cologne, Antwerp or Brussels. We shouldn't have to settle for a second rate system. So yes, we have to keep complaining. It's the only way to keep the bstrds honest.0 -
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You are right to a certain extent. There have been improvements in transport in Ireland. The Aircoach is an excellent service. And the motorways, as far as they go, are a major step forward.
My gripe is more about how public transport in Ireland is run. I understand that with the population densities of the island, we're not going to have a national rail network like the Netherlands.
But a city the size of Dublin should have a transport system on a par with cities like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Valencia, Cologne, Antwerp or Brussels. We shouldn't have to settle for a second rate system. So yes, we have to keep complaining. It's the only way to keep the bstrds honest.
In principle, these issues are not limited to public transport. Health is a major problem for fairly similar reasons.
That being said, I don't agree that Aircoach is an excellent service. My experience is that the equivalent DB services are more reliable. You might argue, however, that Aircoach keep DB effectively honest which is probably true, but in my experience, their reliability is less than stellar. I pretty much never use them any more.
Regarding Dublin transport, I totally agree while recognising that the population density is slightly different. However, I think ultimately the issues relate to the wish to do as little as possible until your back is to the wall. Where I see an issue is that over the past 10 years, there was really no integrated approach to planning with respect to public transport. There are parts of north Swords which are an exercise in how not to do stuff and I am pretty certain they are not unique in the Dublin area. Note also that the bus system is being stripped back a bit now also.
There are a bunch of elections coming up, including local elections. Canvassers will be looking for your votes, and your time to listen to what wondrous things they will achieve in office. Use the opportunity to tell them what you want them to achieve.0 -
I'm really at a loss as to what 'self governence' or inability to 'self-rule' has to do with this. The last time I heard those terms being used in relation to this country, they were being uttered by loyalists justifying why this island should be under British rule. The topic is the planning and transport mess, not about having ourselves annexed by another state.This,to me,represents the beginning of the end for any principle of equitable self-governence in Ireland.
If we had planned our housing right, we could have planned our transport infrastructure right. Developers hi-jacked the whole planning process and zoning process and built everywhere, completely undermining what good planning should be about. If we had faciltated population growth in an organised manner, we could have focused on developing links between centres of population, instead of trying to link scattered housing developments spread over the map like pellets from a shotgun blast.
The real problem left by the last 15 years is that spreading developments so thinly and so widely has meant that even when we pick ourselves up, we won't be able to create the public transport system we could have if we had just planned our residential development.
Look at those Dubliners living in Ulster (Virginia, Ballyjamesduff etc) commuting back to Dublin everyday.
There should have been a planning law prohibiting residential development of more than 3% in rural towns and villages on an annual basis, with higher thresholds for large towns and none for the cities. Maybe then could we have looked forward to joining the population dots (so to speak) once the bust had passed in a proper manner. Now there are so many dots scattered across the map, we have very little hope of joining most of them0 -
I think that the real issue is the actual pace of change and the need to get a proper customer focus in place.
It would be unfair to state that the three CIÉ group companies have done nothing at all to change their services to fit customer demand.
Iarnród Éireann have introduced the hourly service to/from Cork, bi-hourly connections on the Mallow/Tralee route, a bi-hourly service on the Sligo line and extra trains on other routes.
Bus Éireann have introduced enhanced services on many commuter and Expressway services, along with an hourly product between Dublin and Belfast, along with direct connections to/from Dublin Airport on many routes, and improved services in Galway city, along with a significant number of new buses.
Dublin Bus have introduced more streamlined direct routes such as the 4/A, 128, 140, 145, 151 that operate at high frequency directly along the QBC without deviating en route. They've introduced routes to new developments such as the 74/A and improved the timetables on other routes such as the 54A and 75 that are more user friendly. They are now embarking on a series of cutbacks, some of which need to be reviewed, but many of which make sense given usage patterns.
However, the problems facing these organisations is threefold. One has been the degree of political interference in their operations, which, whatever your viewpoint is, is significant. Examples include the representations from Longford TDs that meant the 1734 Bray-Longford would not be cut back to Enfield, thereby restricting IE's ability to operate a late evening Connolly-Mullingar service (it would have used the same train/crew); the restrictions on either using tri-axle buses or improving services on any corridor that had a private operator, even where those improvements would primarily service areas that the private operator didn't serve; and the whole bus route/timetable licensing process which is totally operator focussed rather than customer focussed.
The second problem is a lack of customer focus in the operations of the CIÉ Group and indeed the Department of Transport. This is a serious problem and one that requires a complete culture change across the board. It is not as straightforward as sacking the entire management/workforce and hiring a new one. That will not solve the problem. The existing management do bring some strengths to the table, but a new focus is required urgently and one would hope that, in the case of Dublin Bus, in implementing the Deloitte report that similar to both Edinburgh and London where external consultants assisted in the implementation of change through the organisations (Lothian Bus and TfL) that a similar process will follow in Dublin.
The third problem is that the speed of change and responsiveness of the organisations concerned and indeed the DoT has been far too slow. The processes of getting schedule changes implemented are far too unwieldy and take too long. A more streamlined approach is required if the public transport operation is to have a serious impact.
There is hope and I certainly am not at the point of despair just yet, however the politicians need to realise that significant work is required and applying patches to the stretching seams is not the answer. A focus on customers and delivering quality products that offer good service, frequency, integration, and that reflect customer demands (insofar as possible) is what is needed.0 -
It would be unfair to state that the three CIÉ group companies have done nothing at all to change their services to fit customer demand
.
It would be fair to state that they haven't done enough by a long shot. For example, while the privately operated luas offers services until 00.30 to meet customer needs, Dublin Bus still finishes at 23.30. You can't get into Dublin city before 9.30am on a Sunday morning on most bus routes (see other thread). Nobody understands the complexities of the fare system. No bus route traverses the M50 zone, leaving it completely car based.
The problem is that the corporate culture in CIE is diseased. CIE should be abolished for a start - the three companies under its umbrella haven't even integrated their own fares after decades of co-habitation. Can anyone explain why CIE needs to exist? Ask yourself - what are CIE's values? Nobody knows what CIE stands for.
Bus Eireann is probably the best of the three CIE sisters as it faces the most external competition.
Irish Rail at this stage is beyond repair - and I'm not talking about the tracks, I mean the whole company from its lazy management to its overpaid militant drivers. Completely overstaffed, a legacy of the de Valera era, routes to places like Westport and Sligo are living on borrowed time. The motorway network, when complete, will wipe out any speed advantage on routes to Cork and Galway, where Irish Rail will have a ferocious fight on its hands to avoid a massive slump in revenue. Meanwhile, it barely even offers a service on Sundays to commuter areas where there is a demand.
The problems of Irish Rail management are best exemplified in the atrocious advertising slogan: "we're not there yet but we're getting there". They never told us where we were going, how we would get there and when it would happen.0 -
Look at the redcow,
after all these years and even still they kinda made a half arse job out of it, despite the extra effort they put into it this time. Surely the nagging of the Irish population helped.
If i was head of the transport, I would rip the ****e out of the monastery road outbound slips to my arrangement. That southbound merge is crazy, during rush hour it already snails back beyond the bridge due to the heavy dangerous weaving movements.0 -
It would be fair to state that they haven't done enough by a long shot. For example, while the privately operated luas offers services until 00.30 to meet customer needs, Dublin Bus still finishes at 23.30. You can't get into Dublin city before 9.30am on a Sunday morning on most bus routes (see other thread). Nobody understands the complexities of the fare system. No bus route traverses the M50 zone, leaving it completely car based.
The problem is that the corporate culture in CIE is diseased. CIE should be abolished for a start - the three companies under its umbrella haven't even integrated their own fares after decades of co-habitation. Can anyone explain why CIE needs to exist? Ask yourself - what are CIE's values? Nobody knows what CIE stands for.
Bus Eireann is probably the best of the three CIE sisters as it faces the most external competition.
Irish Rail at this stage is beyond repair - and I'm not talking about the tracks, I mean the whole company from its lazy management to its overpaid militant drivers. Completely overstaffed, a legacy of the de Valera era, routes to places like Westport and Sligo are living on borrowed time. The motorway network, when complete, will wipe out any speed advantage on routes to Cork and Galway, where Irish Rail will have a ferocious fight on its hands to avoid a massive slump in revenue. Meanwhile, it barely even offers a service on Sundays to commuter areas where there is a demand.
The problems of Irish Rail management are best exemplified in the atrocious advertising slogan: "we're not there yet but we're getting there". They never told us where we were going, how we would get there and when it would happen.
I understand that over the years that you have here had your own opinion regarding the CIE Group and in some of that I agree with you.
However, to suggest (as you have) that they have not improved in any way is to do them an injustice. There is an awful lot more to be done, as I outlined in developing a customer focus, but the picture that you paint suggests nothing has changed. There are some green shoots.
There has been some change for the better, with the gradual introduction of clockface scheduling for example, which will I understand be further extended later this year with the DART and Dublin Suburban services being recast into a regular interval clockface pattern.
The fares system is dictated by the DoT. Dublin Bus tried to introduce a flat fare system at the time of the EURO changeover, but the DoT refused to let them. Dublin Bus tried to introduce a 24-hour service on the 746 and had bought the vehicles to operate it (based on DoT funding approval) only to have the licensing section to remove approval literally at the very last minute.
As for early morning services on Sunday, I would tend to agree in terms of higher frequencies. However you are incorrect to say that you cannot get into the city before 09.30am. Each of the following corridors (Howth, Malahide Road, Swords, Ballymun, Finglas, Blanchardstown, Lucan, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Templeogue, Rathfarnham, Stillorgan and Blackrock) all have a departure that will get people into the city for about 0830-0845am.
Personally I think that there is scope for the following operating hours:
Principal routes:
Monday/Saturday: 0500 - 0030
Sunday: 0700-2330
with a skeleton service (hourly/half-hourly depending on the day) along each major QBC through the night.
As far as the M50 Zone is concerned, I am assuming that you mean orbital services? I've repeatedly commented here before that these are exceptionally difficult to plan as no two passenger journeys tend to be the same, and that you need to serve as many major conurbations as possible en route. The best that can generally be achieved is some form of happy medium.
There is already a network of orbital routes that more or less mirror the M50:
75 Dun Laoghaire-Tallaght
76a Tallaght-Blanchardstown
220 Blanchardstown-Ballymun
17A Finglas-Kilbarrack
As I explained above, unlike radial services to/from the city centre where there is gnerally high demand all along the route, for orbital services to be justified they need to serve as many major locations as possible en route to get high load factors. Hence the 75 serves Dun Laoghaire, Stillorgan, Sandyford Ind Estate, Dundrum, Ballinteer, Rathfarnham, Firhouse and Tallaght in order to maximise the load factor for the entire route, rather than carrying a half load for some of the route by operating along the M50.
I think that to suggest that all of the ills of CIE are self-inflicted is unfair. Yes it has some fundamental problems, and I'd be the first to recognise this, such as getting a customer focus to be the prime objective, but many of the problems that it is criticised for are those that are generated by their political masters.0 -
I understand that over the years that you have here had your own opinion regarding the CIE Group and in some of that I agree with you.
However, to suggest (as you have) that they have not improved in any way is to do them an injustice. There is an awful lot more to be done, as I outlined in developing a customer focus, but the picture that you paint suggests nothing has changed. There are some green shoots.
There has been some change for the better, with the gradual introduction of clockface scheduling for example, which will I understand be further extended later this year with the DART and Dublin Suburban services being recast into a regular interval clockface pattern.
The fares system is dictated by the DoT. Dublin Bus tried to introduce a flat fare system at the time of the EURO changeover, but the DoT refused to let them. Dublin Bus tried to introduce a 24-hour service on the 746 and had bought the vehicles to operate it (based on DoT funding approval) only to have the licensing section to remove approval literally at the very last minute.
.
I'm not saying there haven't been improvements. There have. For example, the travel 90 is a good step on the ladder to a more sensible fare structure. But the green shoots are very small indeed.
Everything in CIE seems to move at a glacial pace. Clock fare timetables should have been there yesterday; why will they take until next year? The idea that timetables are dictated by drivers' tea breaks shows how out of touch Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are with their users.
Introducing a 24 hour service on the 746 was a good idea in principle, but since this route is covered by a private operater, why did Dublin Bus feel the need to duplicate? How customer-focused was that? I think the DoT rightly saw the move as an attempt to kill off Aircoach. History in Ireland shows that private operators only succeed when a regulator prevents a state monopoly from carrying out predatory tactics.
For me, the very fact that Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are answerable to political masters is part of the problem. In a private company, it just wouldn't be feasible to operate with the kind of staffing arrangements in place in CIE's subsidaries. Stations that handle ca. 10 trains per day employ multiple staff to do goodness know's what. Every DART station has a minion dispensing tickets. Ticket machines would do away with a huge percentage of CIE's operating costs (headcount).
In my opinion, operations of Irish Rail should be franchised out to a private operator like Veolia. Take-it-or-leave-it early retirement for 80% of the zombies that staff stations like Tullamore, Westport and Portlaoise. And a serious prioritization on a core of viable routes like Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Galway with reduced services on the branch lines.
In the Celtic Tiger era, it was feasible to indulge CIE as a kind of social welfare program. Now with the focus on costs, the political priority has to be on snipping away the huge operating subsidy CIE mismanages. With vital projects like Metro North hanging in the balance, it's time to redirect the CIE subsidy into a core of efficient public transport projects. There is a case for social service routes in some cases, but there is room for efficiences here too.
The kind of cost savings effective management in Dublin Bus and Irish Rail could generate would be enough to fund the annual payment for Metro North AND Dart Underground. Critics of the expense of these projects should re-examine the enormous multi-billion dollar subsidies CIE has received in the last decade before making on judgements on the value of these projects.
Just look at how much CIE gets, and how little it delivers, from your taxpayer money.
The Irish should no longer accept subsidising CIE!0 -
Everything in CIE seems to move at a glacial pace. Clock fare timetables should have been there yesterday; why will they take until next year? The idea that timetables are dictated by drivers' tea breaks shows how out of touch Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are with their users.
In fairness even Deloitte recognised that to redesign the entire network of Dublin Bus would take 18 months to do, and I think that is realistic, as firstly the network needs to be redesigned, then schedules devised and then bus/driver rosters designed to meet those schedules and the changes then need to be approved by the licensing section of the DoT.
As far as IÉ is concerned, they generally only have one schedule change per year, and given that new drivers do not grow on trees that's probably realistic too. It has to be remembered that if a schedule is materially altered, then train and driver rosters have to be redrawn, which is a somewhat time consuming process.
The routes from Dublin to Cork, Tralee, Limerick and Sligo already have more or less clockface schedules. The development of clockface schedules on the other radial routes (Galway/West, Waterford and Rosslare) is dictated by the availability of new rolling stock. Until there are sufficient 22000 sets in service to eliminate the Mark 3 sets from service, rolling out clockface schedules on the predominately single track routes is impossible as the two types of train have completely different sectional running times, which would mean trains arriving at passing loops at the wrong times. At present while 22000s are operating on most routes, they are still operating according to locomotive hauled Mark 3 set running times, which are slower.
As I understand it the remaining Mark 3 sets left in daily service should be eliminated by the autumn as more 22000 sets are commissioned, leading to (hopefully) the development of a clockface service on the other remaining routes (with some additional trains on the Mayo and Rosslare routes) and some reduction in journey times.
A clockface DART and Dublin Suburban timetable is rumoured to be on the cards for the autumn, which ought to mean an end to the existing long gaps in DART service, and suburban and Intercity services being fitted around it rather than the other way around, which can only be good news.0 -
Introducing a 24 hour service on the 746 was a good idea in principle, but since this route is covered by a private operater, why did Dublin Bus feel the need to duplicate? How customer-focused was that? I think the DoT rightly saw the move as an attempt to kill off Aircoach. History in Ireland shows that private operators only succeed when a regulator prevents a state monopoly from carrying out predatory tactics.
At the time Aircoach were only operating the Ballsbridge service, and not serving Stillorgan/Leopardstown, therefore for most of the route it was not duplicating any service.
The problem that I have is that one arm of DoT authorised the purchase of buses for the service, while months later another arm said no! That is the sort of political/civil service nonsense that the companies have to deal with.
When the additional 100 buses were authorised by DoT a few years ago, DB had to submit detailed service plans for their implementation, including enhanced services on the Swords, Blanchardstown and Lucan corridors. DoT authorised their purchase on the basis of those plans and then when the buses were delivered refused permission for the same services to be implemented.
Now please:
a) Explain the logic of that
b) Tell me how any company can operate effectively within that sort of framework0 -
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