I hate Minimal!

Zascar

Actually I love minimal but lets use this thread for minimal hater related discussion.

I'm moving the posts from the Donnacha Costello thread here.

Lads I do not want to see personal abuse - you can still have a decent debate without getting out of hand.

jonny68

ronayne wrote: »

Donnacha is one of the most gifted electronic music producers Ireland
has ever produced....to write him off as just minimal! Well, very silly indeed....

I've seen Donnacho Costello many times in the past and every time ive liked what ive seen, however (and im just going what is posted here) if he is now playing any type of minimal techno then ive no interest, Minimal IMO is the worst genre of dance music of all time!!!

SteveDon

jonny68 wrote: »

I've seen Donnacho Costello many times in the past and every time ive liked what ive seen, however (and im just going what is posted here) if he is now playing any type of minimal techno then ive no interest, Minimal IMO is the worst genre of dance music of all time!!!

Phillistine!

jonny68

SteveDon wrote: »

Phillistine!

haha you couldn't make it up...

i can see the usual sharks circling around here waiting to move in for the kill so over an out for me

SteveDon

I just find it strange the way that you said youve seen donnacha play before and you enjoyed it, then you changed your mind when the word minimal was mentioned, although throughout his career donnacha has always been a pioneer of minimal and his sets often reflect this, he runs his own label called minimise, one of the most respected producers to ever come out of ireland!

Zascar

Yeah I don't get how you can like Techno but hate Mininmal Jonny - they are so alike, they go hand in hand!

jonny68

SteveDon wrote: »

I just find it strange the way that you said youve seen donnacha play before and you enjoyed it, then you changed your mind when the word minimal was mentioned, although throughout his career donnacha has always been a pioneer of minimal and his sets often reflect this, he runs his own label called minimise, one of the most respected producers to ever come out of ireland!

well if he has played minimal before ive not heard him play it, Techno sure but not minimal,as i said without wanting to get in to any arguments i just cannot stand that music and id only end up leaving if any of it was played,have a good one anyway,if i do decide to go out ill probably go to Subject/Swirl @ 4 Dame Lane.

jonny68

Zascar wrote: »

Yeah I don't get how you can like Techno but hate Mininmal Jonny - they are so alike, they go hand in hand!

i disagree mate, the type of Techno i like (hard European Techno) wouldn't go with minimal whatsoever.

stuff like this belter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1pisrpvdSw

SteveDon

jonny68 wrote: »

i disagree mate, the type of Techno i like (hard European Techno) wouldn't go with minimal whatsoever.

Well donnacha certainly has never played hard european techno, ive seen him play many times now at this stage, and although his sets vary they always have a minimal theme.

So lets get this straight.

• you enjoyed seeing donnacha costello before
• donnacha costello plays and pioneers minimal
• you don't like minimal, it is in your opinion the worst genre of dance music
• you dont want to have an arguement, but you are stifled from debate by your own oxymoronic posts

jonny68

SteveDon wrote: »

Well donnacha certainly has never played hard european techno, ive seen him play many times now at this stage, and although his sets vary they always have a minimal theme.

So lets get this straight.

• you enjoyed seeing donnacha costello before
• donnacha costello plays and pioneers minimal
• you don't like minimal, it is in your opinion the worst genre of dance music
• you dont want to have an arguement, but you are stifled from debate by your own oxymoronic posts

right whatever:rolleyes: ive tried to reason with you but your just sh*t stirring, ive never heard him play minimal and that is that, enough goodbye.

SteveDon

How am i **** stirring, you are that came out with the claim that minimal is the worst genre of dance music ever. Im just defending the genre i like.

I could say the exact same thing for that youtube link you gave. Its lowest common denominator dance music, a simple 303 riff in action with action on the cutoff and resonance. A child could make that! Really awful stuff that appeals to people with absolutely no taste.

Heres one of donnachas finer moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

jtsuited

ffs.

once again, someone else feels the wrath of johnny.

Donncha Costello has always had a minimal theme in his work. His bio states his interest in electronic music came when he developed an interest in Steve Reich and John Cage.

I know Johnny can't read this but am stating it just in case there's any doubt about how clueless his constant ramblings are.

jtsuited

SteveDon wrote: »

How am i **** stirring, you are that came out with the claim that minimal is the worst genre of dance music ever. Im just defending the genre i like.

I could say the exact same thing for that youtube link you gave. Its lowest common denominator dance music, a simple 303 riff in action with action on the cutoff and resonance. A child could make that! Really awful stuff that appeals to people with absolutely no taste.

Heres one of donnachas finer moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

Frigging love that track. Only heard it when it was on that Steve Bug mixmag mix last year.

jtsuited

one of the best kickless tracks I've heard. ever.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

Must have heard them on mix CD's etc as jeff said.
.

haha exact same thing happened me. someone recommended him and when i listened to his stuff, there was a load of stuff i had heard before that i had really liked.

Very tempted to go to this.

jonny68

SteveDon wrote: »

How am i **** stirring, you are that came out with the claim that minimal is the worst genre of dance music ever. Im just defending the genre i like.

I could say the exact same thing for that youtube link you gave. Its lowest common denominator dance music, a simple 303 riff in action with action on the cutoff and resonance. A child could make that! Really awful stuff that appeals to people with absolutely no taste.

Heres one of donnachas finer moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

"lowest common denominator dance music" "people with no taste" "a child could make that" sorry but :D:D FFS do you really think people at a rave/club at 3am REALLY give a flying fcuk if this is
"lowest common denominator dance music" as you put it, or maybe it's only geeky techno people who do,seriously like!!!!

Listen mate i get the message, your a massive Donnacho Costello and Minimal fan that's great, i could post a thousand and one YouTube links and you'd probably come out with the same "lowest common denominator dance music" (common denominator is this maths ) fair enough that's your prerogative, and your entitled to your opinion.

stomprockin

SteveDon wrote: »

How am i **** stirring, you are that came out with the claim that minimal is the worst genre of dance music ever. Im just defending the genre i like.

I could say the exact same thing for that youtube link you gave. Its lowest common denominator dance music, a simple 303 riff in action with action on the cutoff and resonance. A child could make that! Really awful stuff that appeals to people with absolutely no taste.

Heres one of donnachas finer moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

OMFG That track lacks a lot!! not a bit of soul in it! its just a dead track!!
IMO;)

SteveDon

stomprockin wrote: »

OMFG That track lacks a lot!! not a bit of soul in it! its just a dead track!!
IMO;)

Wouldnt agree those chords used have a lot of soul in them in my opinion.

stomprockin

SteveDon wrote: »

Wouldnt agree those chords used have a lot of soul in them in my opinion.

I know what you mean.. but i think there a bit flat and the track gets a bit boring as it goes along.again its just my opinion and as you all know we all have different taste:D

Davei141

jonny68 wrote: »

"lowest common denominator dance music" "people with no taste" "a child could make that" sorry but :D:D FFS do you really think people at a rave/club at 3am REALLY give a flying fcuk if this is
"lowest common denominator dance music" as you put it, or maybe it's only geeky techno people who do,seriously like!!!!

This post say's it all to be honest. If i went to a rave and heard "lowest common denominator dance music" at 3am that would be a serious buzz kill. They could play any old cheesy rubbish and you would lap it up, as would most. Hence it being lowest common demoninator crap. That track you posted is terrible, and it's laughable that you would post that saying its the type of techno you like then say your man costello was great when you seen him is he still playing techno these days? Me thinks you cant tell your arse from your elbow when it come's to genre's you don't understand.

OMFG That track lacks a lot!! not a bit of soul in it! its just a dead track!!
IMO

I know what you mean.. but i think there a bit flat and the track gets a bit boring as it goes along.again its just my opinion and as you all know we all have different taste

Boring as it goes along...its less than 3 minutes long. Not your thing that is fair enough, but dont throw in meaningless crap like "dead track" "flat" "no soul".

FLYNN-DOG

I cant see the vids here in work...is the tune "black bag job" - i too heard that on Steve Bug's DJ mag cd - great mix! 2 great dj's! (Though I've kinda been put off Steve Bug as a person since I saw photos of him doing coke on fb)

FLYNN-DOG

Oh and as I've said before on this forum, I don't take the opinion of any "oldschoolers" or trance-heads seriously. My two cents

nomorebadtown

SteveDon wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

If thats minimal, then i dont like minimal.
How the fook would you have a balls out rave to that??
very boring music.

BaZmO*

Is this the Friday Madness Thread?

I hate Minimal too!

and Oldskool!

and Techno!

and House!

and DnB!

and Gargamel!

SteveDon

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

Oh and as I've said before on this forum, I don't take the opinion of any "oldschoolers" or trance-heads seriously. My two cents

My sentiments exactly!

Seriously though lets put this in a perspective that most people understand,

Comparing Donnacha Costello to that ****e track that johnny68 posted is like comparing Take That with Radiohead.

Some people prefer listening to a somewhat dumbed down interpretation of dance music and thats fine but you have to realise what your listening to isnt regarded as good music by any of the main proponents of innovative dance music today.

If you don't have the tact to understand Donnachas music dont post comments about it. He is widely regarded as one of the most succesful and respected producers to come out of our little island.

The arguement that it is no good for a club at 3am is complete rubbish, as i have seen this track been played in the late hours and have seen the reaction that it has got.

The preception of dance music today by non fans tends to be that of what johnny68 posted. Monotonous kick banging to a few basic waveforms maniupulate with cutoff and resonance. Its for this reason that techno is regarded by a wider population to be a rather stupid genre that no serious musicians would involve themselves in.

So called fans like johnny68 are helping to add fuel to this fire. Thats the reason why i have been so vocal on this thread.

Zascar

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

I cant see the vids here in work...is the tune "black bag job" - i too heard that on Steve Bug's DJ mag cd - great mix! 2 great dj's! (Though I've kinda been put off Steve Bug as a person since I saw photos of him doing coke on fb)

No way! I did not hear that, any links?

*Shock horror - a DJ doing drugs... tut tut...*

jimi_t

One thing I will say is that Donnacha himself is a boards.ie lurker and tends to shift gear on adverts.ie from time to time (nearly bought his MPC off him but got sniped). Just saying!

Zascar

nomorebadtown wrote: »

If thats minimal, then i dont like minimal.
How the fook would you have a balls out rave to that??
very boring music.

You could almost class that as Techno though. The Techno that is popular these days (at least on beatport charts etc) has quite a wide spektrum - its actually what I like about it. Some "Techno" could easily be classed as "Minimal". As I've said before genre's are not an exact science and argueing about the finer points is silly.

Zascar

jimi_t wrote: »

One thing I will say is that Donnacha himself is a boards.ie lurker and tends to shift gear on adverts.ie from time to time (nearly bought his MPC off him but got sniped). Just saying!

Donnacha, if you are reading this please join in!

francois

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is this the Friday Madness Thread?

I hate Minimal too!

and Oldskool!

and Techno!

and House!

and DnB!

and Gargamel!

Its all fecking noise I tells ya, noise

BaZmO*

I generally don't get the whole "hate" thing anyway. If you don't like something just don't listen to it, and there's certainly no need to keep telling people that you hate it.

Daroxtar

jonny68 wrote: »

i disagree mate, the type of Techno i like (hard European Techno) wouldn't go with minimal whatsoever.

stuff like this belter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1pisrpvdSw

Have to say johnny, i like hard european techno and that track aint it. Thats london acid techno.

This is european techo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsSVN--QI7Y&feature=related

Adam Beyer before he turned minimal

FLYNN-DOG

Zascar wrote: »

No way! I did not hear that, any links?

*Shock horror - a DJ doing drugs... tut tut...*

He was tagged by some randomer, next day i went looking for the picture it was gone - suspicious! He has the look of a coke head though come on........

Riesen_Meal

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

He was tagged by some randomer, next day i went looking for the picture it was gone - suspicious! He has the look of a coke head though come on........

So your gonna not listen to him because he had a sniff?

Okay, time to throw away all my cds I love in the bin, drug monkeys the lot of them, imagine how much smack GNR were doing when they made appetite for destruction???

:eek:

Cmon, drugs go hand in hand with 90% of the music out there, not just dance music - how many times has Britney Spears been caught doing drugs?

So what if he's a cokehead? He's a good artist, I dont think his personal choices would stop me listening to any form of music that I loved!!!

MikeHoncho

Fieldog wrote: »

So your gonna not listen to him because he had a sniff?

Okay, time to throw away all my cds I love in the bin, drug monkeys the lot of them, imagine how much smack GNR were doing when they made appetite for destruction???

:eek:

Cmon, drugs go hand in hand with 90% of the music out there, not just dance music - how many times has Britney Spears been caught doing drugs?

So what if he's a cokehead? He's a good artist, I dont think his personal choices would stop me listening to any form of music that I loved!!!

Fieldog the Bill Hicks of the Boards.ie Dance Forum.

jtsuited

Musician in Drug Shocker!!!

jtsuited

just to add something I was talking to another dj/producer about the other day:

while the whole minimal clickity cloppity whack sound is fairly jaded at this stage, the rise of that stuff sort of showed that with a lot of music 'less is certainly more'.

From a production perspective, it has had a huge influence on techno and house. My favourite records of the past year or so are dominated by simple things done well.

There is a lot more 'space' in many different electronic genres now and I think the rise of the 'minimal' sound contributed greatly to this.

Also from a mastering point of view, the less stuff in a track, the more impact you can get from it, even when slamming it with the most awful sounding limiter.

IMO, before minimal had it's boom in popularity, techno records were a little on the busy messy side (speaking generally here).

So in summing up, while I'm not a massive fan of the 'minimal' sound right now, I think the influence it has had on techno and tech-house has been a great thing.

Anywho, all the boundaries between the genres are blurring all the time.

Also, as is fairly evident from what Johnny thinks of as 'techno', his opinion is completely irrelevant as he's completely off the mark with what he actually thinks of as a certain genre.

Hey Johnny, 1997 called, they want their opinions on dance music back!

old gregg

jtsuited wrote: »

Musician in Drug Shocker!!!

I've avoided all this by confining myself to Shpongle , no drugs there .. no sir E

Scubadevils

SteveDon wrote: »

How am i **** stirring, you are that came out with the claim that minimal is the worst genre of dance music ever. Im just defending the genre i like.

I could say the exact same thing for that youtube link you gave. Its lowest common denominator dance music, a simple 303 riff in action with action on the cutoff and resonance. A child could make that! Really awful stuff that appeals to people with absolutely no taste.

Heres one of donnachas finer moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90gQ1udLnDg

Really excellent track, love it.

Someone recommended to me a while back to buy his 'Colours' album, hearing that confirms I have to!

Or should I say 'Colorseries'

http://www.discogs.com/Donnacha-Costello-Colorseries/release/1123965

Scubadevils

As for the topic... I love lots of minimal, never actually heard it in a club though - only for home listening or on the MP3 player while commuting etc.

And techno is about as broad a musical term/genre as electronica! For me though I lean mostly towards detroit techno in its many forms.

Anima

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

I cant see the vids here in work...is the tune "black bag job" - i too heard that on Steve Bug's DJ mag cd - great mix! 2 great dj's! (Though I've kinda been put off Steve Bug as a person since I saw photos of him doing coke on fb)

I know its not really "cool" to be anti-drugs and listen to dance music but I think this viewpoint is a nice shift from the usual "dodgy geezer" perspective most people have of the genre. A person shouldn't have to do drugs to appreciate dance music and I'd hope most people would know this.

Its exactly what a certain person is visualising with his posts and its fucking awful. That 'raved out of his bollacks', tired looking, pathetic middle aged wanker who listens to "uplifting piano house".... That stuff is long gone and thank Christ it is.

Electronic music is supposed to be current, inventive and ahead of the curve. Not repeating the same tripe as it was 20 years ago.

musicmonky

heres some minimal ... or is it....
class stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=tC_wPItWhYI

jtsuited

musicmonky wrote: »

heres some minimal ... or is it....
class stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=tC_wPItWhYI

i be a big fan of Sascha Funke.

Not minimal but a great track.

aidan kelly

I think the word "minimal" is possibly one of the most over-used and abused in electronic music today. I would regard Rob Hood as the Godfather of minimal techno. If you read interviews with him, particularly early ones, he states that the concept of "minimal" (as all his work tends to work off concepts) is simplicity - less is more, keeping only what is essential to keep people moving on the dancefloor. Similarly, Mike Banks described Rob's approach as "music made with a minimal amount of anything" - Rob didn't have lots of money, equipment or a massive studio, but he created records based upon utilising the creativity of what he did have. I think people like Hood and Jeff Mills are the forerunners of this genre, listen to tracks like "Minimal Nation" (which is being re-released this summer on M-Plant) - it's 14 years old but it's really the blueprint for minimal techno.


I think what happened with "minimal" is that many producers jumped on the same bandwagon and produced a gluttony of same-sounding records which completely diluted the "minimal" sound, I think the same thing happened to Richie Hawtin and Jeff Mills in the 1990's. But to dismiss a style of music just because there are bad examples of the genre is silly, there are lots of great examples too, minimal is only boring in boring hands, DJ's who embrace the minimal concept can be mindblowing (some that come to mind are Richie Hawtin, Magda, Steve Bug, Ricardo Villalobos, Trentemoeller, Matthew Dear, Marc Houle amongst others). I think it's grossly unfair to write off the genre just because of the dilution, there are plenty of excellent records which adhere to the minimal idea, sure there are tons that are crap too, but surely that's the same in any genre of music?

For what it's worth, I think producers like Donnacha Costello and Chymera are a credit to our country, they've produced some fantastic music, and are world renowned and respected. I think like house music, there are different styles of techno too, I don't think every techno DJ is necessarily "minimal", but then again not every so-called "minimal" DJ is really minimal. While I think Richie Hawtin really propelled the more subtle minimal style we know now (particularly through his DE9 - Closer to the Edit mix album), lately I've found his sets a little dull. Sure they're at a high level of sophistication, but they've actually started to get very complicated and full of different effects, which to me kind of moves a bit away from the original idea of minimal (although I could be wrong here). I just find him not as interesting as a few years ago anyway.

jonny68

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

Oh and as I've said before on this forum, I don't take the opinion of any "oldschoolers" or trance-heads seriously. My two cents

one of the most pathetic posts ive ever read on this forum,unbelievable :rolleyes:

Zascar your asking for trouble posting something like this and i want to part of it you should've just deleted the post and be done with it.

Scubadevils

jonny68 wrote: »

one of the most pathetic posts ive ever read on this forum,unbelievable :rolleyes:

Zascar your asking for trouble posting something like this and i want to part of it you should've just deleted the post and be done with it.

I hadn't seen that comment from Flynn-Dog - Good to know he doesn't take my opinion seriously! :rolleyes: I feel so... inadequate :pac:

VinylJunkie

jonny68 wrote: »

one of the most pathetic posts ive ever read on this forum,unbelievable :rolleyes:

Zascar your asking for trouble posting something like this and i want to part of it you should've just deleted the post and be done with it.

In fairness you made the thread happen with your branding of everything minimal being ****e.

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

one of the most pathetic posts ive ever read on this forum,unbelievable :rolleyes:

Zascar your asking for trouble posting something like this and i want to part of it you should've just deleted the post and be done with it.

wonder if johnny realises that these threads are just really a place to put his normal rubbish?

musicmonky

is this minimal then?
i thought i knew about music , until i start reading boards/dance threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=ybldt8kFVoQ

Davei141

jonny68 wrote: »

one of the most pathetic posts ive ever read on this forum,unbelievable :rolleyes:

Zascar your asking for trouble posting something like this and i want to part of it you should've just deleted the post and be done with it.

It's an extremely valid point though. Would you give a crap about the opinion of a minimal fan who doesn't like oldschool, on Oldschool? A trance fan on funky house who doesn't actually like funky house? It's because their opinions are as useful as to me as a metalhead pointing out how "that dance ****e all sounds the same".

(I like trance though)

Zascar

Sorry Jonny I agree with Davi above. You come out with "Minimal is the worse genre of all music" out of nowhere - and then get upset when someone says they don't take the opinion of old skoolers... That's just his opinion albeit a bit of a generalisation. I'd be the same in a similar way cause if someone was absolutely mad into Euro Ttance or Happy Hardcore etc - I just could not take them seriously. Anyway I'd admitted to being a bit of a music snob many times before (I think most people are a little bit) - but I generally keep my opinions to myself for the most part - I have no desire to rub them up the wrong way and cause trouble. As long as they keep their horrific music way from me I don't care what they do :pac:

Dance music is incredibly wide and varied, I only have an interest in a small few genre's but there is plenty in there to occupy me. There are some I hate and just have no respect for musically (anything with a DONK in it etc) - but most of the rest I simply do not know much about, and have not given it a chance etc - so I'm going to avoid saying bad things about it.