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What does the law say about "used" items/goods bought ?

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  • 02-05-2009 3:22am
    #1
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭


    How does consumer law protect anyone who say buys a DVD or computer game but it's scratched and doesn't work but they don't find out that it doesn't work for another month or two (because not everyone watches a DVD as soon as they get it and not everyone plays and finishes a game as soon as they get it) ...

    Is there any comeback in the consumer rights there ?


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    #2
    tony1kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    Was it bought "used" as per thread title or not?

    I doubt you have any comeback anyway after two months.

    I do stand to be corrected though.


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    #3
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Gamestop sell second hand games as "used" . Sometimes there's scratches and they work but sometimes there's scratches and they don't but you might not discover that they don't work for a few weeks (or over the month period that they give you, ie Gamestop's store policy)


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    #4
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Another thing :
    They're selling DVDs at the minute as "used" when in fact they're brand new (they got them from a supplier that went out of business).

    ^ this is why I'm assuming there's some different wording when it comes to selling something as "used".


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    #5
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    If it were a private sale, then it's buyer beware. When you buy from a business, normal statutory rights apply, just as if it were new. The product must work for a reasonable timeframe, regardless of what the shops policy or warranty states.


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    #6
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    jor el wrote: »
    If it were a private sale, then it's buyer beware. When you buy from a business, normal statutory rights apply, just as if it were new. The product must work for a reasonable timeframe, regardless of what the shops policy or warranty states.

    Thanks for that but it doesn't really answer my question (that could be because I didn't word it properly).

    "normal stat. rights apply" but only if it's new.
    What rights apply if it's labeled "used" ?

    Gamestop are selling brand new , not second hand DVDs as "used".

    What is the reasonable timeframe ?


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    #7
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    What is the reasonable timeframe ?
    Unknown as it is not stated in the law and is up to a court to decide.


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    #8
    Gamesnash.ie: Pat
    Company Representative Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Gamesnash.ie: Pat


    The other very grey area when it comes to DVD's and game discs in particular is the concept of user damage versus normal wear and tear. Retailers can argue that any scratches that cause a disc to fail were caused by the bad handling of the consumer themselves or by the equipment the disc was played on. The longer the disc has been away from the store the less chance you have that a retailer will be inclined to entertain a refund / replacement.

    With discs in particular I'd recommend taking note on the receipt and ask the salesperson to sign it acknowledging there were scratches in the first place. You'd have a stronger position to argue from later. Realistically though you'd be expected to be back within a few days to report the fault or else it get's a bit messy.

    We've had a couple of people send back pre owned games 3 months after purchase that were clearly ruined by the xbox itself being moved whilst the disc was spinning ( the circular gouging ) and it's a difficult position to be in for both parties.


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    #9
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    "normal stat. rights apply" but only if it's new.
    What rights apply if it's labeled "used" ?

    Gamestop are selling brand new , not second hand DVDs as "used".

    Doesn't matter if it's new, used or just labeled used. You have the same rights in all cases, so it makes no difference. If the shop try to claim you only have a 7 day warranty, or some other arbitrary time frame, they cannot legally enforce it.
    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    What is the reasonable timeframe ?

    The ultimate question. Reasonable is not defined anywhere in any consumer law. This is because it would vary depending on the product, and it's use. Ultimately, a court would decide what's reasonable in any given case.


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    #10
    Christomouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Christomouse


    Tip for future purchases. Anytime you buy a pre owned game or dvd from GAME just check the disc. If there's scratches on then disc just ask them will they run it through that red disc cleaning box thing they have on the counter. They've always done it for me. Takes about 5 minutes. Dunno if anywhere else will do it though, never tried.


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    #11
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Gamesnash.ie wrote: »
    The other very grey area when it comes to DVD's and game discs in particular is the concept of user damage versus normal wear and tear. Retailers can argue that any scratches that cause a disc to fail were caused by the bad handling of the consumer themselves or by the equipment the disc was played on. The longer the disc has been away from the store the less chance you have that a retailer will be inclined to entertain a refund / replacement.

    With discs in particular I'd recommend taking note on the receipt and ask the salesperson to sign it acknowledging there were scratches in the first place. You'd have a stronger position to argue from later. Realistically though you'd be expected to be back within a few days to report the fault or else it get's a bit messy.

    We've had a couple of people send back pre owned games 3 months after purchase that were clearly ruined by the xbox itself being moved whilst the disc was spinning ( the circular gouging ) and it's a difficult position to be in for both parties.

    Thanks for the reply. It definitely is a tricky one with discs, especially the games. I just got a "new" PS2 game from Gamestop and I noticed the booklet has a big thing about warranty. There's a note at the end that said that local laws may override it though. The game was X-Files Resist or Serve.

    Thing is though, even if I get a game (or DVD) and it's scratched , then I might not play it fully or watch it all (especially if it's a TV series) .

    Cheers for the tip about writing on the reciept that it's scratched. Gamestop's policy is they'll exchange it within a month (in addition to the normal statutory rights).
    jor el wrote: »
    Doesn't matter if it's new, used or just labeled used. You have the same rights in all cases, so it makes no difference. If the shop try to claim you only have a 7 day warranty, or some other arbitrary time frame, they cannot legally enforce it.



    The ultimate question. Reasonable is not defined anywhere in any consumer law. This is because it would vary depending on the product, and it's use. Ultimately, a court would decide what's reasonable in any given case.


    I'm assuming the store policy is they'll exchange it no questions asked within the month but if say I don't play it within the month (or don't play it fully lets say) and then I discover that because of the scratches it's damaged then there'll be a dispute. I can't see anyone bringing any shop to the small claims over a €5 DVD though.
    Christomouse wrote: »
    Tip for future purchases. Anytime you buy a pre owned game or dvd from GAME just check the disc. If there's scratches on then disc just ask them will they run it through that red disc cleaning box thing they have on the counter. They've always done it for me. Takes about 5 minutes. Dunno if anywhere else will do it though, never tried.

    Cheers actually. I think both the game shops run a lot of scratched pre-owned discs through a buffer. I suppose I could ask.


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    #12
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    I knew there was something to having goods labeled "used" or 2nd hand/pre-owned.

    http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_knowrights.html
    Second-hand goods

    These must also be of merchantable quality but the standards are lower. If you buy something through a private sale, your rights are greatly diminished. Goods do not have to be of merchantable quality, they merely have to be owned by the seller and fit their description. It is up to you to check out the goods before buying.

    Got a 2nd hand game , didn't play it fully through till recently, past the 30days, doesn't work, no comeback :).

    So Gamestop selling fifty copies of Predator 2 "used" gives them an advantage over selling them marked as new.


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    #13
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They'd also be sold at substantially less if sold as used rather than new.


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    #14
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    astrofool wrote: »
    They'd also be sold at substantially less if sold as used rather than new.

    €3.99 as with all their DVDs but I'd say they're still making good money on them because they got a huge job lot of these Predator 2 DVDs and a few others... Die Hard or something and a couple of Colombia Tristar releases.


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    #15
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    Got a 2nd hand game , didn't play it fully through till recently, past the 30days, doesn't work, no comeback :).

    The law says the standards are reduced, it doesn't say there are no standards, or that you have no rights/comeback. The goods you bought must still be of merchantable quality, which clearly it is not, since it doesn't work. There is no 30 day limit in law, that's store policy, and is not legally enforceable.

    If it was a private sale, your rights would be greatly diminished, buying from Gamestop is not a private sale, so you have the same rights as if it were new. A lower quality is to be expected, but it should at least work.


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    #16
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    jor el wrote: »
    The law says the standards are reduced, it doesn't say there are no standards, or that you have no rights/comeback. The goods you bought must still be of merchantable quality, which clearly it is not, since it doesn't work. There is no 30 day limit in law, that's store policy, and is not legally enforceable.

    If it was a private sale, your rights would be greatly diminished, buying from Gamestop is not a private sale, so you have the same rights as if it were new. A lower quality is to be expected, but it should at least work.

    The problem is proving that the disc didn't develop the scratches over the two months the op had it.


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    #17
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    jhegarty wrote: »
    The problem is proving that the disc didn't develop the scratches over the two months the op had it.

    Especially given that reduced quality would mean the disc may well have been sold with scratches in the first place, and then trying to prove that these were sufficient to cause it not to work, and in place, to begin with.


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