John O'Conor's comments on Adult Music Students

Pianist2891

Hi all!

Sorry - haven't had a chance to post here in a long time, but I'll make this quick. I was listening to Dr John O'Conor's interview on Eamon Dunphy's show.

Amongst other things Dr O'Conor said that adults should not really bother with the piano as its too late if you start learning beyond age 10. Since I myself am involved with teaching adult/amateur/advanced pianists, I cannot really understand or agree with Dr O'Conor's dismissive comments in this regard.

Dr O'Conor went on to say that the RIAM does not accept beginners over the age of 10 for this reason - I seem to recall a discussion/debate earlier on this board about the same subject, some people said they were certain the RIAM accepted anyone of any age who was musical/talented enough, and I mentioned that adult beginners no matter how promising would not be offered a place. Fair enough, if that is the policy of the RIAM - however to discourage anyone who wants to not just play "for fun" but to develop technically and musically, to overcome nerves and to reach a high standard is just bizarre. Also, I've seen many adult beginners appear for music exams - so it seems a little bit convenient that these people are paying a fee to appear for an exam, when the director of the organisation believes that there really is no point in taking music or performance seriously if you're an adult. Nobody has any delusions that they're going to become the next Richter or Horowitz, but there is no reason why people who show talent, promise and are hard working are given the encouragement and opportunity to get to the highest possible standard, for their own fullfillment. Dismissive, condescending comments from the country's most well known pianist and classical music personality are not such a pleasant thing.

I'd welcome your own opinions and comments, as this is a subject that does interest me a great deal and is close to my own work.

mozartmania

I myself am a pianist of a high standard after having received my diploma from trinity guildhall there recently. I have just listened to John O Connor on Eamonn Dunphys show and am horrified at the attitude he has concerning adult beginners. I did not start piano as an adult but I went back to lessons when I was 26 after having an 11 year break of not playing the piano at all and here i am at 29 with my Associate Diploma from Trinity Guildhall.
I am very fortunate to be taught by an extremely open minded influential, inspirational teacher who teaches adult beginners and students of any age, the age limit does not apply to my teacher!!
Because of the variety of students she teaches I have been honoured to meet extremely musical and talented adult beginner students who have shown more emotion and talent than most of these mechanically trained child "prodigies" could ever show!!!
I really just want to say it is NEVER too late to start the piano and expect a high standard of playing....I would hate for adults or even teenagers to think that they would need to start playing before the age of ten to achieve anything substantial with the piano. If anything adults are even more motivated to achieve and CAN!! I know lots of adult beginners who have achieved outstanding grades in exams after only being taught for 2 years and I'm not talking about elementary and primary exams I'm talking about from Grade 5 onwards!!!!
So please please don't be discouraged....its never too late!!!!

funky penguin

Started piano and music when I was 21, got into music degree when I was 22, finished 1st year with a 1st class honours and a Grade 8 cert. Currently have a 75% average in second year and my teacher said I'd be well able for 3rd year performance.

If you want it, GO GET IT!

The Mad Hatter

Hypocrisy in the Royal Irish Academy of Music? Gosh, really?

banquo

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Hypocrisy in the Royal Irish Academy of Music? Gosh, really?

Naaah, you must be thinking of somewhere else. That's impossible.

In a completely unrelated video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf8NK1WAOc

Mr. O' Conor has not seemed to mind charging interested adults entrance fees to his workshops in the past. Interesting to see a teacher supposedly dedicated to education discouraging students who have an interest, and an institution known for its poor standards indulging in snobbery. Get a standard or get a life, a-hole.

The Mad Hatter

banquo wrote: »

Naaah, you must be thinking of somewhere else. That's impossible.

In a completely unrelated video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf8NK1WAOc

Mr. O' Conor has not seemed to mind charging interested adults entrance fees to his workshops in the past. Interesting to see a teacher supposedly dedicated to education discouraging students who have an interest, and an institution known for its poor standards indulging in snobbery. Get a standard or get a life, a-hole.

Vid broken.

banquo

Can't seem to get it to work (and yes, I know how to post youtube vids here! )

It was in response to the 'oh gosh, hypocrisy in RIAM' quote. The scene from casablanca where the dude says ''I'm shocked, shocked to discover gambling in this establishment''

Pianist2891

After nearly a whole day listening to this year's AXA Competitions, I am back to find a wonderful message from Philip Fowke, who was Head of Piano at the Royal Academy of Music in London, who now is Senior Fellow at Trinity College of Music London, and who has been one of England's most amazing concert pianists the country has seen.

I'm quoting his comments on the subject

"It is never to late to learn, and some of my most treasured moments have been with older people, vulnerable, insecure and struggling, who need every encouragement. I feel that much satisfying music making can be achieved by amateurs".

Taking it from someone who has performed with some of the greatest conductors and orchestras in the world, whose numerous Proms appearances are too many to state, I will take his words over Dr O'Conor's dismissive ones any day.

Really wonderful to hear about the achievements of some of the people on here, and yes I have to agree about the bizarre double standards, particularly since Dr O'Conor's Diploma courses and Workshops have always attracted amateurs and adult beginners. If only he could have made his attitude towards people like that clear from the outset, they would have saved themselves time and money. I'm hoping I can invite further debate, discussion and intelligent comments on the radio in September this year.

As for the standard of Irish (including RIAM students) competitors in this year's competition thus far, it is no surprise to know that the strongest competitors are from Cork School of Music, a Limerick born pianist who studied at the Royal College of Music London, and a Dublin pianist who is a student of Therese Fahy, and who was a former student of Leeson park!

banquo

When we say 'inviting further debate' are we really just asking for further unproductive O'Conor bashing? Because I am totally down for that.

Pianist2891

I've forgotten how to use the quote tool!

No John O'Conor bashing from my end because its not worth the hassle - debate is more to do with people who are adult students/amateur pianists etc sharing their own thoughts and experiences!

Ironically, I have found that adult pianists/amateur musicians generally struggle with sight-reading but are excellent at memorization. Most also have a great love for music, and make the effort between lessons to listen to recordings, read up about music etc. Far more exciting than teaching a priveledged 8 year old who has a Steinway grand to practice on but zero musicianship.

funky penguin

As an adult learner, I'll confirm that: I absolutly suck at sight reading, but I accompanied someone there recently and I memorised the piece in a week. I think its because sight reading takes time to develop - something I personally don't have.

Queen-Mise

Pianist2891 wrote: »

I've forgotten how to use the quote tool!

You have been gone from boards a long time.

I have always been told i have fingers for playing piano.:-):)

Its reassuring that one of these days/years if i ever take it up, i will be welcomed.

It is not nice to think that you cant become very competant at a skill if you dont begin in your early childhood.

Thanks

Pianist2891

Queen-Mise wrote: »

You have been gone from boards a long time.

I have always been told i have fingers for playing piano.:-):)

Its reassuring that one of these days/years if i ever take it up, i will be welcomed.

It is not nice to think that you cant become very competant at a skill if you dont begin in your early childhood.

Thanks

Absolutely - I have to be honest and say teaching adult beginners is very, very hard work, but the rewards far out weight the difficulties. I taught one adult beginner who came to the piano, and within 2 years he was auditioning for a performance/composition major in an American college, got accepted on 3/4 scholarship and is now based in Boston where he combines performane with composition and is also part of a Jazz trio.

Its also the notion that unless you only want to play a baby version of Fur Elise (a bit of fun, really, bless your heart), don't bother taking up the piano. God forbid you would want to some day play a Scriabin sonata or Rachmaninov Prelude. I have seen some INCREDIBLE amateur pianists at the Shrewsbury International Summer School :eek: - those who may have begun/resumed in their thirties and are now in their forties or fifties and they would put many of the RIAM music graduates to shame! Examples that come to mind include a Yorkshire pianist called Peter Duffy playing the Leighton sonata and Scriabin's 3rd Sonata:eek:, a Welsh pianist called Jane Newman playing all the Debussy Preludes....the list is endless.

funky penguin

Funny you should mention Scriabin's 3rd Sonata, as its next on my list!

The Raven.

I was taught, by my father, to play piano as soon as I learned to walk, followed by formal training shortly after I started school. I now have a BA Mus. and MA Mus., and I compose, play and teach. Consequently, I cannot imagine what it must be like for an adult starting out. I can only view it from my own perspective, based on my experience as a teacher.

Pianist2891 wrote: »

Amongst other things Dr O'Conor said that adults should not really bother with the piano as its too late if you start learning beyond age 10.

I think this is regrettable, and I don’t agree with Dr. O’Connor on this issue. The sad fact of the matter is that a lot of people look up to him as an authority on teaching and learning piano, and might be inclined to accept this as gospel. He is not the only person to have come out with this type of comment. It always reminds me of an early film with Dirk Bogart as an aspiring pianist who commits suicide, having been told that he will never be good enough to succeed. I cannot recall the name of the film, but it gave me nightmares. I have had a few teenage students who were told they would never be any good at piano. Fortunately, they came to me to learn, and so far they have done very well.

There are many adults who were not in a position to have piano lessons in their childhood years, but who are often heard to say ‘I always wanted to learn piano’. Some of these will eventually make the effort and start taking piano lessons. Some will succeed and some won’t, which is also true for students of all ages. I would never discourage anyone from trying to learn piano at any age, even if it is only to understand what is involved, rather than being told that they can’t do it.

"It is never to late to learn, and some of my most treasured moments have been with older people, vulnerable, insecure and struggling, who need every encouragement. I feel that much satisfying music making can be achieved by amateurs". Philip Fowke

I agree wholeheartedly with Philip Fowke. I have also found that the older people are indeed ‘vulnerable, insecure and struggling’. This is often what helps them to succeed, because they are generally more inclined to listen, to try harder, and above all to practise more.

I am not saying that none of the younger ones apply themselves in this way, but some of the very young children have similar little tricks. These include pretending to read, but playing from memory, saying they have practised when it is obvious that they haven’t, and a host of other little gems. Nevertheless, they are fun to teach, and will respond to gentle persuasion. The older ones tend to be a bit more honest in this respect, and what you see is what you get. I know some teachers who won’t teach young children because they haven’t got the patience. This I can understand, but I cannot imagine how anyone could say that ‘It’s too late if you start learning beyond age 10.’ It doesn’t make any sense to me, especially as it excludes all teenagers. It seems to be taking ageism to an extreme!

Pianist2891

What a fascinating, articulate and enlightening message TheRaven - many thanks for taking the time to go into such detail. You sound like a superb musician, composer and teacher yourself.

You sum it up beautifully, when you say that many people in this country, particularly those down the country regard Dr O'Conor as an authority on teaching and learning piano, and as a result may be completely discouraged and disheartened if someone of his stature and fame (in this country, I might add) makes such a dismissive comment. I also think there is so much "fear" and a tendency for many people who disagree with his superior and elitist attitude as regards music performance to not be inclined to say how they feel, lest they may face the fallout in later years (given Dr O'Conor's influence on so many organisations, personalities, institutitions, press in this country).

I am also fascinated to know what the film you are referring to actually is, and yes as someone who has worked with prodigious young performers (for example last year I only worked with performers under 14 years of age, who had all reached Diploma level, on Glenn Gould's piano in Ottawa) and adult/amateur pianists and singers, I have seen what a horrific impact these so called "one line" dismissive comments can cause.


As regards adult students specifically, I am of the firm belief that they improve based on how much creative practice they (as does any student) put in. Sight-reading, technique, it can all improve, and I teach one student who began just over a year ago, from complete scratch, who can sight-read extremely well, at slow tempo most easy Sonatas by Mozart, some of the easier preludes by Chopin, Bach etc. Its because he actually works to improve his reading.


As for Philip Fowke's comments, its such a shame that we need a pianist from another country to say things that EVERY musician who is at the top of their game in this country shoud say. It speaks volumes about the state of music education in this country, if this kind of nonsense is considered as gospel truth. Ironically, a large number of the audience members in the AXA Dublin International Piano Competition that Dr O'Conor was talking to Eamonn Dunphy to publicize are amateur pianists, and adult pianists. I spoke to a few people late last night and tonight, these are lovely human beings, with a real love for music, something that the priveledged 12 year olds know little about.

Thank you once again for sharing your thoughts!
K

banquo

funky penguin wrote: »

Funny you should mention Scriabin's 3rd Sonata, as its next on my list!

What is is about this forum and Scriabin mania?! I know nobody else into Scriabin except people I know mostly from boards.ie.

Although I was impressed with the orchestration of the Poem of Ecstasy.

But OT. In the words of the internet, John O' Conor = fail.

Pianist2891

banquo wrote: »

What is is about this forum and Scriabin mania?! I know nobody else into Scriabin except people I know mostly from boards.ie.

Although I was impressed with the orchestration of the Poem of Ecstasy.

But OT. In the words of the internet, John O' Conor = fail.

You will all be happy to know that our very own Doshea3 from boards will be collaborating with me on a Scriabin special for the radio I love the 3rd Sonata, though Olga Stezhko who performed Scriabin's difficult and dissonant 7th Sonata resulted in me getting a migraine at today's competition

OT, just posted! I'm going to actually ask some more renowned pianists for their thoughts on this subject. Maybe some day all this idiotic elitism and arrogance will disappear off the face of this earth...until then, bless boards and freedom of speech!

banquo

I wish to join you in abolishing musical snobbery without foundation. Can I start with my college? A little Vitamin K* never hurt...


*Kerosene

The Raven.

Pianist, thank you for the compliments, and taking the time to reply. I know all to well how badly such comments can affect a performer. I suffered one myself some years ago at college by an eminent person, for whom I still have a lot of respect (apart from that instance). I won't go into too much detail here, because it is a small world. The first piece of my performance was highly praised, but the second one was excruciating, as I was in severe physical pain at the time from an injury, and playing a piece that was somewhat energetic. The comment still bothers me, in spite of assurances that this happened regularly, although I do see it for what it was: a rather short-sighted remark.

I have searched on the net for some reference to the film I mentioned, but, so far, I can't find it. If I do come across it, I will post it here.

Thanks again,
The Raven.

pwd

His mum was my next door neighbour while I was growing up. Very nice lady.

ResEphemera

As an adult learner (voice) and also ex-child learner (recorder, piano and cello - skills now sadly lost, though I hope to give the piano another whirl before too long) this thread caught my eye.

I actually know quite a number of people now who have really only come to formal musical training as adults and they love it. It's not necessarily about being the best, just being able to play/sing reasonably well and enjoy themselves. The pleasure that comes from simply being able to do something. The really damning thing in John O' Connors position is not the implication that if you start studying an instrument as an adult you'll never excel or achieve a high/professional standard its the corollary that studying and learning for pleasure alone is not enough.

I KNOW I put far more effort into my current voice training than I ever did as a child instrumentalist (how I passed my grade exams & intercert piano practical, I really don't know, I doubt I averaged more than 2 practice sessions a week between classes). At the moment I'm preping for grade 8, and every day I am doing something between aural prep, revising performance pieces, vocalising, etc. I want to do the best I can.

I have no delusions that somehow I will metamorphose into an international classical artiste, but I want to know how good I am, and what I'm really capable of. This kind of commentary from someone of John O'Connor's standing is very demoralising and would be very off-putting to someone considering taking up and instrument or getting music lessons.

It is nice that those of you who do teach, have so clearly stated how open to and supportive you are of adult students.

Regarding the comments that children sight read better than adults - in one of my piano grade exams (2 I think aged about 12) I managed to play the sight-reading test backwards -make of that what you will.

banquo

@MozartMania

Finally, another Mozart enthusiast on boards.ie!

/ecstatic fanboyism

Calina

I do not have a lot of time but to be honest, John O'Connor shows no understanding for the motivation of someone who may want to learn the piano if he assumes that all benefits are lost if you do not start before the age of 10. It may be a poor assumption on my part, but I suspect he is looking at this from his own narrowminded view of what constitutes valid piano music. He's very much in the classical mould, right?

But the instrument is not an end in itself, it's a tool for many, many other things. I listen to a lot of traditional music played on piano (if anyone knows Didier Squiban for example), and other bits and bobs, very accessible to anyone who wants to listen.

It may be that you won't win the Dublin Piano competition if you start playing after the age of 10. But actually, being a concert pianist isn't the overwhelming motiovation of most adults who want to play. They just want to play. To that end, it matters more that they enjoy playing than whether some grand daddy of the Irish classerati think they are wasting their time or not.

ana ng

He is right in the sense that it is highly unlikely that you could become a professional practising pianist (don't know about other instruments) after starting that late. Not impossible, but very highly unlikely. Hence the RIAM (whose notional function is in producing these sort of musicians) need to have that restriction. I dont mean a teacher here, i specifically mean someone making a living primarily through performance.

However he is wrong to make a silly general comment along the lines of (quoting OP) 'adults should not really bother with the piano'. Enough of the comments here show the satisfiaction and enjoyment to be gotten from learning piano. I have taught some great adult students in the past, most were really rewarding to work with, and achieved fantastic things with there playing.

Ultimately His take is real 'ivory tower' and eilitist.

Pianist2891

Mozart is my number one man too! Him and J.S.B but these days Wolfy is the way to go

RE original post, you're all absolutely right - nobody is saying that someone who begins later in life, or resumes lessons after a long break is going to make it to an international piano competition, but to presume that they won't'/can't reach a very high standard technically and musically is just inaccurate and discouraging because all the posts above and people's own experiences and encounters prove otherwise!

DeVore

Wow... I guess I better give up now then...

Pffffffffff..... I am 39. I started um what, 8 months ago and its been hard but you know what, nothing easy is worth doing.

I'm *loving* it. Yes, its frustrating at times but those times are now less and less frequent and more and more often I find myself swinging over on my office chair to my keyboard to play something I'm trying to learn. I struggle, its true, but also I'm getting a great deal of satisfaction from it. I'm *enjoying* it. So, that was one of my objectives Mr O'Connor, and I'm achieving it.

If I had read that last year I would have been given up during the dark first few months. I'm very glad I didnt and this has made me want to put up another video when I get home (from holidays).

To be world class at something you need 10,000 hours practise they say (read: Outliers by Malcolm Galdwell), thats a lot easier when you start at 10 then at 40.

But we arent all looking to perform in a concert hall, some of us are happy to make music and maybe play for our friends.

Mr O'Connor should look further then the end of his nose to see the various motivations people have to learn the instrument.

DeV.

The Raven.

DeVore wrote: »

Pffffffffff..... I am 39. I started um what, 8 months ago and its been hard but you know what, nothing easy is worth doing.

‘…nothing easy is worth doing.’ Homer Simpson doesn’t agree! I have a Homer Simpson mug, which says ‘If something’s is hard to do, it’s not worth doing.’ !!

I'm *loving* it. Yes, its frustrating at times but those times are now less and less frequent and more and more often I find myself swinging over on my office chair to my keyboard to play something I'm trying to learn. I struggle, its true, but also I'm getting a great deal of satisfaction from it. I'm *enjoying* it. So, that was one of my objectives Mr O'Connor, and I'm achieving it.

Good for you DeVore. Stick with it! Some of my students started when they were much older than you. They don’t all last, but those who get past the first few months often go on to become good musicians, and they really enjoy playing. It takes time and regular practise. I would stress regular rather than longer occasional stints.

Pianist2891 wrote: »

Mozart is my number one man too! Him and J.S.B but these days Wolfy is the way to go

I love playing Mozart too, and people love listening to it, but I have to say that Beethoven is my absolute hero! I never thought I would ever hear myself saying something like that about anyone, but the spirit and the passion in his music hits the soul like some sort of magic.

I managed to listen to John O’Connor’s interview with Eamon Dunphy on the link below. The comment that caused the controversy is near the end. His theory seemed to be that the younger beginners could achieve more flexibility, but he did admit that he had met some successful people who started later. I can appreciate what he is saying, but I would argue that the flexibility is down to good, regular practise, over a sustained period of time, obviously with the best quality tuition one can get.

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-020509-40m29s-dunphy.mp3

Pianist2891

I think its also the dismissive nature of the comment that got a lot of people's backs up, and again if anyone is looking for an example of a "late starter" - look no further than Sviatoslav Richter. However, Richter was Richter, an incredible pianist, for the mere mortals amongst us, it is possible to not just play for enjoyment and fun, but to also reach a very high standard of playing and performance no matter when you start! Its the presumption that perhaps the former is possible, but the latter is not, unless you are under age 10 when you begin that is incorrect and discouraging.

Enough said! I loved Beethoven when I was a teenager, but Wolfgang it is now! And I didn't even mention poor Haydn - shame on me :mad:

banquo

Pfffy. Haydn. What did ''Haydn'' ever do for music. So she was in XMen. Big deal.

Mozart ftw. Piano Concerto in D Major = win. (and before you ask, BOTH of them!)

Nulty

Hello piano players!

I'll introduce my self first...

I'm nearly 25 and started playing guitar when 21. I listen to classical some times and I'm on Ludwigs team in the 'Great Debate'.

I think what O'Connor said has far reaching consequences. Not particularly that he said it, but that any teacher of any art shows any discouragement due to a beginners age is really bad. I had doubts about picking up a guitar at 21. Fair enough he is getting castigated for it here:p and in the context of what he is saying he may be right most of the time but really when it comes down to it people should be encouraged to express them selves and thats what its all about. Art = expression = satisfaction. Surely he doesnt want to discourage people from starting late but you wont find a 'diamond in the rough' unless you dig in the rough.;)

Undergod

I don't entirely agree with what he said, but I think attacking the RIAM for not accepting beginners over a certain age is missing the point. It's an institution providing a certain service- there are many many places adult beginners can go to learn instruments, and the Academy is not one of them. I don't see allowing adults to sit the Grade exams as hypocritical at all.

Pianist2891

Undergod wrote: »

I don't entirely agree with what he said, but I think attacking the RIAM for not accepting beginners over a certain age is missing the point. It's an institution providing a certain service- there are many many places adult beginners can go to learn instruments, and the Academy is not one of them. I don't see allowing adults to sit the Grade exams as hypocritical at all.

I am only clarifying my own comments in case they weren't clear, what is hypocritical is not allowing adults to sit grade exams, but not admit them into the RIAM - nearly all music conservatoires worldwide DONT accept beginners over a certain age, and that is all very well. In the context of what has already been said, DISCOURAGING ADULT BEGINNERS to aspire towards a high level of playing, technically and musically but yet encouraging them to appear for exams is where the problem seemed to arise.

Obviously music conservatoires are focussing on training professional concert performers, and nearly all are in agreement that for THAT outcome, one must start as young as possible.

Having said that, 9 adult/amateurs today worked in a masterclass with one of the world's greatest living pianists, who had much incredible insight, praise, advice, technical and musical guidance to give them all. He also said that very often a so called "amateur" or "late starter" would show more innate musicality and sense of direction than many of his "thumping 18 year olds" at the conservatoire where he teaches!

rcaz

funky penguin wrote: »

Started piano and music when I was 21, got into music degree when I was 22, finished 1st year with a 1st class honours and a Grade 8 cert. Currently have a 75% average in second year and my teacher said I'd be well able for 3rd year performance.

If you want it, GO GET IT!

I'm planning to put my full efforts into piano this summer, but I was thinking of it as a really tough task, and this post was really encouraging. Thanks

ManofMunster

go for it El! knock em dead!

learned piano when in school but quit when went to uni (living away from home; no access to piano; too fond of socialising). went back two years ago at age 32 and got myself a recital diploma within a year and a half of my second coming. still struggle to find as much time as i'd like to practise on account of work, professional exams, following munster etc... (john o'conor having refused point blank to sponsor me to quit work;) ) but i'm lovin' it all the same.

on the original point, it was dr o'conor's dismissiveness of late starters that rankled. there he was, ireland's pre-eminent pianist, with a question that teed him up perfectly to encourage the nation's adults to go and learn and enjoy music. instead he blew it just so he could remind us all of the technical brilliance possessed by his ilk, that can only be attained by taking one's first masterclass while still in the womb.

the tone, as much the words, annoyed me.

funky penguin

Sorry to drag from the depths, but this has to be posted!!!

My brother has been playing 'cello now for about 3 years. After 1 year, he got grade 4 ABRSM and just got grade 8 there last month with distinction. On top of that, he got accepted into the RIAM to study under William Butt!!!! :eek:

But by far and away the best bit......he is 22.

banquo

Cool! Fair play to your brother. That must have taken some serious effort.

tootyflutty

Ridiculus! I started flute at 14 and less than 4 years later I have completed my grade 8 with a distinction. I used to play piano from the age of about 4 and because of a series of bad teachers gave it up after grade 4, but as I plan on studying music next year have just began to play properly again. Finding it much easier now that I'm older than when I was smaller and the concept of music and scales just escaped me.

funky penguin

banquo wrote: »

Cool! Fair play to your brother. That must have taken some serious effort.

Its probably the reason you've never seen him about college, always at home practicing.

FranzL

Others have indicated how they got on well after starting late, so here's my story:
Decided at 17 that I would like to play piano.
Took first lessons but avoided exams for many years. Just enjoyed trying to play easier pieces, classical and popular. Continued with lessons.
At 30 passed first exam (T.C.L. grade 8)
At 31 passed ALCM diploma and ATCL teaching diploma.
At 36 passed LTCL teaching diploma.
Have taught at 2 music schools.
Still enjoy playing a wide selection of music.
I was fortunate in getting teachers who taught music, not just piano, and who always gave encouragement.

BigStupidGuy

Hey this is Funky Penguins Brother, I just thought I'd explain my story a bit better...

It didn't help at the interview for the RIAM that one of the first things I was asked after playing was, given my age what did I hope to achieve by playing the cello? In fairness he seemed very awkward and made it clear he didn't want to ask the question, but he said he had to..

I just said that I believe if I continue to work my ass off like I have been the last 2-3 years that I just don't believe there's any limit to how good I can become in the next few.. It must of worked!

But I think there's more to why I was accepted than that
1: My age, how long I've been playing and my progress made
2: My attitude
3: Most NB I think... I played a modern piece by George Crumb.

He said he really appreciated me playing the Crumb (I think he was sick to death of everyone playing the standards) and thanked me for coming, and this guy is no joke type "William Butt" into Google and click on the first link if you don't believe me...

Above all I was surprised by how incredibly nice, helpful and encouraging they all were! I guess they knew hard work when they saw it and wanted to give me a break! (especially after a disastrous Feis Ceoil and NYOI audition..:()

Hope that clarifies and helps! Good luck everyone!!!

banquo

Many thanks for the post, BigStupidGuy.

Extra credit for cool username

funky penguin

You're getting credit from me for making your first serious post on boards.

That modern piece thing is an interesting point. With cello, I'm sure they're sick of people playing the Bach suites (or trying to play them), and there are SO many interpretations and opinions that its a bit of a mine field.

With a modern piece you have more room to maneuver with interpretation and it has the added bonus of making you look awesomely in tune with modern musc. This George Crumb piece has really grown on me and I can see the intensity in my brother when he plays it now, its obviously an important piece for him personally now.

I would add that pieces that are not well known, or not in the traditional performance cannon of your instrument would be another excellent choice. For example, friend of mine is now playing some Medtner for is final year, purely because its not played very often (plus it has teh added bonus of being gorgeous).

I personally agree with this outlook. We can nurture the past as well (who would want to forget Mozart!?!) but we have to look out for our future by noticing the present. If that makes any sense at all......

DeVore

Congrats BSG!

To explain, I'm nearly 40 and took up the piano 8 months ago. I'm not brilliant by any means and all I want to do is enjoy expressing myself musically. This weekend I composed my first ... *thing*. I can honestly say I have thoroughly enjoyed learning the piano, even the hard bits when I thought I would jack it all in. I got past them and it feels great. I even go back and play the pieces that caused me trouble (Moonlight Sonata... I'm looking at you!) simply to feel the sense of accomplishment at having defeated them.

Now I have a piece of music thats mine. Its not great, its pretty basic and its constantly changing (:)) but its mine. And I actually like it!

Screw the exams and grades if thats not what you are after. I'm far too old to need to seek validation of others with bits of paper. I want to play and I want to enjoy it. Happily, I'm doing both. I wouldnt have had a musical bone in my body apart from loving it. Never played nothing before this. If anyone thinks they are too old to learn, they are only fooling themselves and will regret it!

DeV.

banquo

Should print this thread and send it to O' Conor.

BigStupidGuy

Funny, I can't find a contact e-mail for him anywhere online...

Guess you can post him?

banquo

Print it out on the back of a pension slip.

Undergod

Update: The Academy is now offering group piano classes for adult students.

banquo

Early bird lessons?

funky penguin

Group lessons?! Learning an instrument in a group environment is limited at best imo.

ManofMunster

think you're being kind there funky. tried group lessons for a while and that was a glorious waste of everyone's time. very much a 'let's maximise income per hour' tactic from music schools.

can't imagine how useless a group piano class might be. does everyone have a piano? how does it even work?