Arsenal v Man Utd 2nd leg (first leg 1-0 utd)

jaykay74

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Careful there mate, not allowed to bring Liverpool into the conversation And that rule was not changed was it, they denied they had the rule despite it having been published on their website and then enforced the rule that they originally had in place. Confusing, I know.

maybe i should have said rules get changed and not given a working example of my point

Thanx 4 The Fish

adox wrote: »

Looks like he got a touch to the ball first and then the man with his follow through.

No doubt he got a touch on the ball but he also pulled the player back. Caught him on the front of his knees with the left foot and his heels and ankles with the whole of the other leg

Guy:Incognito

jaykay74 wrote: »

maybe i should have said rules get changed and not given a working example of my point

No, you could have just used a relevant workign example.

What if the match had ended 4-3 to Arsenal, then afterwards UEFA decided to bring in a new rule that goes back over contentious issues with immediate effect and decided the foul for Ronaldos free wasnt a foul so the goal was recinded and UTD were out. Is that ok? Or is changing rules mid season only ok for things you want?

OpenYourEyes

To digress slightly, any word on what was happening with the sniffer dogs etc after half time?

Thanx 4 The Fish

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Are you Dave N?

No, are you Louwrens?

jaykay74

Stekelly wrote: »

Its absolutely nothing like that.

What it would be like is if UEFA decided to go back over the quarter final and pick out the Alex free kick, decide it was a dive by Drogba and chalk off the goal, then decide to replay the match. Thats changing the rules during the season.

and even if it was a rule change, it was done before the season starts (generally when rules are changed) not halfway through whne liverpool are say, at home watching the group stages then deciding to parchute them into one of the groups.

I'm talking about a review process for red cards like in the EPL not what you say above which sounds a bit daft

It seems that almost every other big match these days has a mistake from a referee, be it a sending off, disallowed goal, dodgy peno etc.

It's about time Fifa got the finger out and had TV replays for big decisions.

That was no sending off. never mind a penalty.

Guy:Incognito

jaykay74 wrote: »

I'm talking about a review process for red cards like in the EPL not what you say above which sounds a bit daft

Your talking about bringing in this review process mid season, ie changing the rules.How would that be fair?

adox

rarnes1 wrote: »

It seems that almost every other big match these days has a mistake from a referee, be it a sending off, disallowed goal, dodgy peno etc.

It's about time Fifa got the finger out and had TV replays for big decisions.

That was no sending off. never mind a penalty.

While I agree it wasnt a peno and therefore not a sending off, I still wouldnt like to see TV replays in games. Refs making dodgy calls has been part of the game for years and leads to loads of debate on games.
Maybe not a good reason to leave it as it is, but its always been like that and its part of the game imo.

jaykay74

Stekelly wrote: »

Your talking about bringing in this review process mid season, ie changing the rules.

and you compare that to "What it would be like is if UEFA decided to go back over the quarter final and pick out the Alex free kick, decide it was a dive by Drogba and chalk off the goal, then decide to replay the match. Thats changing the rules during the season."

anywho who cares. night all. Roll on Rome

A Dub in Glasgo

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

No, are you Louwrens?

No, I am Stuart

Thanx 4 The Fish

adox wrote: »

Refs making dodgy calls has been part of the game for years and leads to loads of debate on games.
Maybe not a good reason to leave it as it is, but its always been like that and its part of the game imo.

Harald Schumacher's challenge on Patrick Battiston in 82 was a talking point, it does not mean that we still want to see it in the game.

SlickRic

just home now.

just to say it was a pleasure to watch that ronaldo performance. utd were efficient, and in another class to arsenal tonight. but ronaldo was on another planet.

that was hard to say. especially as i doubted if he should be up front before the game, with rooney wide left.

damn you ferguson .

eddiehead

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

To digress slightly, any word on what was happening with the sniffer dogs etc after half time?

They were looking for Arsenal fans

Guy:Incognito

jaykay74 wrote: »

anywho who cares. night all. Roll on Rome

Very easy to up and walk away when your rant falls apart isnt it?:)

adox

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Harald Schumacher's challenge on Patrick Battiston in 82 was a talking point, it does not mean that we still want to see it in the game.

And????

adox

adox wrote: »

While I agree it wasnt a peno and therefore not a sending off, I still wouldnt like to see TV replays in games. Refs making dodgy calls has been part of the game for years and leads to loads of debate on games.
Maybe not a good reason to leave it as it is, but its always been like that and its part of the game imo.

Football has changed with all the money thats involved in it though. There's so much more riding on games these days.

A discussion for another day I'd imagine.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Harald Schumacher's challenge on Patrick Battiston in 82 was a talking point, it does not mean that we still want to see it in the game.

That was a fair tackle!

Kev_ps3

Glory Glory Man Utd. Great win. Roll on Rome:pac:

UnitedIrishman

I'm surprised their isn't an appeal type thing in force with UEFA and FIFA like their is with the Premiership. Fletcher deserves to play in the final more than anyone else given his performances this year in the CL. Very much like Hargreaves was for us last year in his drive and determination.

I'm not just saying this because it's a United player or because it's happened to Keane or Scholes previously, but there should be a rule about players getting a red or two yellows in semi finals. I don't think it's fair on players missing out on the biggest game of the year because of something like this or the fact they got a yellow five games ago. I remember it happening to Blanc too in 1998 when he was captain. Ask Keane or Scholes and they'll both say that they didn't feel as if they won the CL in 1999 because they didn't play the final.

I'd rather see two full strength teams going at each other in the final with no excuses about missing players.

SlickRic

i've got to say i feel for fletcher too. such an honest lad. didn't need to make the tackle - arsenal weren't getting back in it - but to actually knick the ball and miss the final as a result.

painful stuff as he's been much the unsung hero for much of the season.

JerryHandbag

Que sera sera, whatever will be will be, we're going to It-a-lee, que sera sera.
Havent sung that since Italia 90

Loomis

The majority, and those with some sense, know it wasn't a penalty.

Judging by the replay from behind it looks like the ref's his line of sight to the ball was obstructed by both players. So he was wrong to make a decision, either way, given he couldn't see the ball.

Guy:Incognito

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I'm surprised their isn't an appeal type thing in force with UEFA and FIFA like their is with the Premiership. Fletcher deserves to play in the final more than anyone else given his performances this year in the CL. Very much like Hargreaves was for us last year in his drive and determination.

I'm not just saying this because it's a United player or because it's happened to Keane or Scholes previously, but there should be a rule about players getting a red or two yellows in semi finals. I don't think it's fair on players missing out on the biggest game of the year because of something like this or the fact they got a yellow five games ago. I remember it happening to Blanc too in 1998. Ask Keane or Scholes and they'll both say that they didn't feel as if they won the CL in 1999 because they didn't play the final.

The rules on yellows and reds have to be in place, otherwise you get people commiting little cynical fouls to break up attacks and totally influence a game in their favour, knowing they'll play in the final anyway. There has to be repercussions for fouling or else just let it be a free for all.


Appealing cards that were given unfairly is a different issue altogether and should be allowed, be currently isnt, so it's case closed for this season.

Mmcd

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

The majority, and those with some sense, know it wasn't a penalty.

Judging by the replay from behind it looks like the ref's his line of sight to the ball was obstructed by both players. So he was wrong to make a decision, either way, given he couldn't see the ball.

So he should have gone to the linesman who didnt flag it!

LostinBlanch

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

No doubt he got a touch on the ball but he also pulled the player back. Caught him on the front of his knees with the left foot and his heels and ankles with the whole of the other leg

And without going back to search, I'll ask what were your views on the penalty we at Spurs when Gomes brought Carrick down after [maybe] getting a touch on the ball. Not having a pop at you, just asking seeing as it's a liverpool supporter saying what lots of United supporters were saying then.

Loomis

Mmcd wrote: »

So he should have gone to the linesman who didnt flag it!

Then that's tough. And blame the linesman for not doing his job. I'd rather that happen than referee's making decisions on things they don't see because they feel they should.
You can't ask a ref to make a decision on something he doesn't see. A referee's assisstant, to give him his correct title, should flag if he sees something. They rarely do. Or flag only when they see the ref doing likewise. Time after time they don't flag for things only they can see.

Mmcd

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Then that's tough. And blame the linesman for not doing his job. I'd rather that happen than referee's making decisions on things they don't see because they feel they should.
You can't ask a ref to make a decision on something he doesn't see. A referee's assisstant, to give him his correct title, should flag if he sees something. They rarely do. Or flag only when they see the ref doing likewise. Time after time they don't flag for things only they can see.

I was blaming the ref for not consulting with the linesman
He hadnt flagged so he may have set him straight but the ref persisted with a decision where he didnt even see it properly so yet again he's at fault!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

The majority, and those with some sense, know it wasn't a penalty.

Judging by the replay from behind it looks like the ref's his line of sight to the ball was obstructed by both players. So he was wrong to make a decision, either way, given he couldn't see the ball.

Hang on there a second, you have already said that he caught him but it was after the ball and so said that it was not a penalty. I did ask for you to show me where in the laws of the game it says that you can foul a man after the ball was gone but you failed to come back to me on that so I am assuming you drew a blank. As he DEFINITELY caught the player it was a pen, the sending off is a different matter, I am not sure if anybody else could have influenced play from the angles I have seen it but if not and the ref thinks that Fabregas could still have gotten to the ball then it is a clear goalscoring opportunity then it was a red but I agree that it was not a decision the ref should have taken without consulting his assistant.

LostinBlanch wrote: »

And without going back to search, I'll ask what were your views on the penalty we at Spurs when Gomes brought Carrick down after [maybe] getting a touch on the ball. Not having a pop at you, just asking seeing as it's a liverpool supporter saying what lots of United supporters were saying then.

Not allowed to talk about that now are we, a mod has given direction, I suggest you look over this thread for my view though if you are interested.

Dave!

Great performance, great win.

But it's overshadowed for me by the red card Such a shame, Fletcher deserves to play in the final. Hopefully the ref changes his mind and rescinds it.

The first thing that came to mind for me was Solksjaer's red card against Newcastle -- pretty much a demonstration of his commitment and sacrifice. Fletch's wasn't quite as martyly, but after such a blood and guts performance (one of many for Fletch this season), that's what came to mind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

Also great to see the jubilation and team spirit on display as the players were being subbed off, and after the match too. Of course, anybody would be jubilant after securing a CL final place, but it was great seeing Anderson having a laugh with Fergie as he came off, and kicking Evra up the arse when the match ended Vida chatting with Mike Phelan, and Rooney jumping on René Meulensteen also!

Looks like great spirit in the team Hopefully we keep everyone this summer and it continues to grow. Dunno though.

The third goal was sublime btw

lordgoat

Dave! wrote: »

Great performance, great win.

But it's overshadowed for me by the red card Such a shame, Fletcher deserves to play in the final. Hopefully the ref changes his mind and rescinds it.

The first thing that came to mind for me was Solksjaer's red card against Newcastle -- pretty much a demonstration of his commitment and sacrifice. Fletch's wasn't quite as martyly, but after such a blood and guts performance (one of many for Fletch this season), that's what came to mind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrFlDpQudY

Also great to see the jubilation and team spirit on display as the players were being subbed off, and after the match too. Of course, anybody would be jubilant after securing a CL final place, but it was great seeing Anderson having a laugh with Fergie as he came off, and kicking Evra up the arse when the match ended Vida chatting with Mike Phelan, and Rooney jumping on René Meulensteen also!

Looks like great spirit in the team Hopefully we keep everyone this summer and it continues to grow. Dunno though.

The third goal was sublime btw

Ole got a standing ovation for that tackle.

Guy:Incognito

Dave! wrote: »

The first thing that came to mind for me was Solksjaer's red card against Newcastle -- pretty much a demonstration of his commitment and sacrifice. Fletch's wasn't quite as martyly, but after such a blood and guts performance (one of many for Fletch this season), that's what came to mind!

In fairness thats more a demonstaration of rose tintedness. If that was an arsenal player that did that tonight in the dying minutes with Arsenal goign through, there'd be absolute murder amongst Utd fans.


Dont think it's the type of thing that should be encouraged , it certainly should carry a lengthy ban as its very much unsporting behaviour at best.

At least teh likes of Didi Hamann tried to pretend he wasnt doing it.

Guy:Incognito

Mmcd wrote: »

I was blaming the ref for not consulting with the linesman
He hadnt flagged so he may have set him straight but the ref persisted with a decision where he didnt even see it properly so yet again he's at fault!

But if he would have set him straight surely he would have done so after the wrong decision (if he felt it was) was made?

Just because the linesman didnt flag doesnt mean he didnt think it was a peno. If the ref blows and gives the peno, theres no need for the linesman to flag if he agrees with the ref.

mike65

Murda! you mean?

kinaldo

lordgoat wrote: »

Ole got a standing ovation for that tackle.

A professional foul, very sporting that.

SlickRic

yes i feel sorry for him.

but if it gets rescinded it makes a farce of the rules. it's not like it was an unbelievably horrendous decision. the ref got it wrong, but c'mon. it's not life and death we're talking here.

you'd swear he was a martyr who deserves to be resurrected from the dead.

sh*t happens.

LuckyLloyd

Dave! wrote: »

Hopefully the ref changes his mind and rescinds it.

Eh, this won't happen.

SlickRic

kinaldo wrote: »

A professional foul, very sporting that.

i agree.

to be proud enough of Ole making such an unsporting tackle so as to give him that ovation is a bit pathetic really.

adox

SlickRic wrote: »

yes i feel sorry for him.

but it's not life and death we're talking here.

Mr.Nice Guy

A fantastic performance from United, marred by a terrible decision from the referee. Fletcher got the ball and it's a shame he won't be involved for the final.

With that being said it was great to blow Arsenal away on their own patch.

I'm now off to read the rest of the thread and no doubt the bitter comments of the ABUs who I wager still won't give United credit for that display.

mike65

I didn't even watch.

SlickRic

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A fantastic performance from United, marred by a terrible decision from the referee. Fletcher got the ball and it's a shame he won't be involved for the final.

With that being said it was great to blow Arsenal away on their own patch.

I'm now off to read the rest of the thread and no doubt the bitter comments of the ABUs who I wager still won't give United credit for that display.

i haven't read it either.

but anyone who doesn't shouldn't be taken seriously, coming from a scouse here.

ronaldo in particular was different class.

got to hope for barca to make it now. i've a feeling you'd definitely beat chelsea.

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

I didn't even watch.

I fell asleep after the second went in.

The first goal killed it stone dead really. Arsenal started brightly and the crowd were making quite the rumpus - to concede such a soft goal just when they were beginning to build up a head of steam was always game over. Arsenal can have no complaints. They didn't really turn up in the first 45 minutes of both games. They will have Arshavin for next year, probably Rosicky too. A couple of impactful signings on top of that could make all the difference.

mike65

Well I missed the opening heard it was 2-0 so shugged and watched The Professionals!

Boggles

Carbon copy of the Peno the Arse got against Pompey. That was never a peno either.

Fletcher will still have an important role in the league, he is a good pro he will bounce back.

Great result for United, got lucky with the second goal, thought Park still had alot to do for the first and he finished well.

Good to see Becks is still a United fan, Rubbing his hands in glee - Hilarious!!

Come on Barca tommorow, so we can see once and for all who are the best pound for pound team are in Europe.

kinaldo

Boggles wrote: »

Good to see Becks is still a United fan, Rubbing his hands in glee - Hilarious!!

I always thought he was a Spurs fan for some reason...

SlickRic

Boggles wrote: »

Come on Barca tommorow, so we can see once and for all who are the best pound for pound team are in Europe.

could not agree more.

and if it happens, hopefully there will be no need for excuses for either team.

Boggles

kinaldo wrote: »

I always thought he was a Spurs fan for some reason...

Maybe it was aimed at Berbs so! :pac:

Dave!

SlickRic wrote: »

i agree.

to be proud enough of Ole making such an unsporting tackle so as to give him that ovation is a bit pathetic really.

Perhaps, but it certainly endeared Ole to the fans It had to be done so he sprinted back and he did it

mike65 wrote: »

Well I missed the opening heard it was 2-0 so shugged and watched The Professionals!

Shoulda switched on for the third. It was a good'n

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Eh, this won't happen.

Okay then

Mr.Nice Guy

SlickRic wrote: »

i haven't read it either.

but anyone who doesn't shouldn't be taken seriously, coming from a scouse here.

ronaldo in particular was different class.

got to hope for barca to make it now. i've a feeling you'd definitely beat chelsea.

Having skimmed through the thread most of the comments from non-United fans were actually very fair.

I checked out some comments on the BBC site earlier...let's just say this place is a breath of fresh air by comparison.