Arsenal v Man Utd 2nd leg (first leg 1-0 utd)

LuckyLloyd

Smegball wrote: »

Personally I think the introduction of in game video reviews would take away from the drama and spectacle which makes football great, but also more importantly would take away some potential debates like last nights tackle or Gomes tackle on Carrick

The elimination of such 'debates' would be rather wonderful as far as I'm concerned. Moreover, the idea that poor refereeing decisions is part of what 'makes football great' is, well...rather baffling tbh.

Wreck

Smegball wrote: »

Personally I think the introduction of in game video reviews would take away from the drama and spectacle which makes football great, but also more importantly would take away some potential debates like last nights tackle or Gomes tackle on Carrick

Don't see how, seeing as last night's tackle is still being debated despite ample video evidence showing the foul.

Mitch Connor

Wreck wrote: »

Don't see how, seeing as last night's tackle is still being debated despite ample video evidence showing the foul.

indeed - you call it a foul, I call it a wonderful last ditch tackle.

SlickRic

Wreck wrote: »

Don't see how, seeing as last night's tackle is still being debated despite ample video evidence showing the foul.

i'd love for it to have been a foul.

but take off the tinted specs? do you honestly believe he didn't get the ball before the man? do you honestly believe the hand on the shoulder was a foul?

i'm genuinely interested...

L'prof

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd love for it to have been a foul.

but take off the tinted specs? do you honestly believe he didn't get the ball before the man? do you honestly believe the hand on the shoulder was a foul?

i'm genuinely interested...

He got the ball before the man, the hand on the shoulder wasn't a foul, but he tripped up Fabregas who could have gotten to the ball before VDS.

Sometimes you get the, sometimes you don't, but I don't think it's clear cut either way!

iregk

Mitch Connor wrote: »

indeed - you call it a foul, I call it a wonderful last ditch tackle.

Have to agree. I'm no united or fletcher fan but I thought it was a great tackle.

deisedevil

jasonorr wrote: »

If you want to include friendlies, then by all means do!

Personally, I think Barcelona are a better team at the moment, so beat them (if they get past Chelsea of course) and there can be no doubt I suppose!

What kind of logic are you going by? We beat them last season to go on and win the CL. Were we the best team then? Your saying you want to see us beat them two years in a row and win CL and PL two years in a row before we are best, but they are the best until we do?

Which adds weight to claims of best team on the planet more, Cups in the trophy cabinet or your opinion? I know what I'd go with anyways.

We are the best team on the planet unless BARCELONA prove otherwise, not the other way around. They need to prove they are better, not us, we are right now and thats a fact!

monkey9

How are people on here trying to claim the ref was right. It wasn't a penalty!!

Wreck

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd love for it to have been a foul.

but take off the tinted specs? do you honestly believe he didn't get the ball before the man? do you honestly believe the hand on the shoulder was a foul?

i'm genuinely interested...

I'm totally serious and totally genuine. I would consider myself one of the least biased posters on this forum. If that tackle had been Toure on Ronaldo I would still say it was a foul. Toure touches the ball, but Ronaldo still has the oppurtunity to shoot before Toure takes him down.

My opinion on the incident has nothing to do with the fact that I support Arsenal and everything to do with what the video replays show.

L'prof

deisedevil wrote: »

What kind of logic are you going by? We beat them last season to go on and win the CL. Were we the best team then? Your saying you want to see us beat them two years in a row and win CL and PL two years in a row before we are best, but they are the best until we do?

Which adds weight to claims of best team on the planet more, Cups in the trophy cabinet or your opinion? I know what I'd go with anyways.

We are the best team on the planet unless BARCELONA prove otherwise, not the other way around. They need to prove they are better, not us, we are right now and thats a fact!

Reason it what ever way you want, best team in the world? Who cares! It's all just personal opinions really and mine is that Barcelona are better and will beat United this year. Maybe it's the fact that they play against weaker defences that makes me think they are the better team and maybe their own weak defence will be their undoing. I might be wrong, it doesn't really matter. It's just my personal opinion. Either way, I'm bored arguing with you.

445279.ie

Alex Ferguson said last night that they will not be able to appeal Fletcher's sending off.

Can someone tell me why (without me having to read over the last 20 pages )

Thanks

L'prof

445279.ie wrote: »

Alex Ferguson said last night that they will not be able to appeal Fletcher's sending off.

Can someone tell me why (without me having to read over the last 20 pages )

Thanks

Uefa rules state that unless it's a case of mistaken identity, yellow and red cards cannot be rescinded.

445279.ie

jasonorr wrote: »

Uefa rules state that unless it's a case of mistaken identity, yellow and red cards cannot be rescinded.

thanks jasonorr

Frisbee

jasonorr wrote: »

Uefa rules state that unless it's a case of mistaken identity, yellow and red cards cannot be rescinded.

It's a joke to be fair.
Any review committee would see he got ball before man and certainly wasn't trying to bring him down.
Any ref with an ounce of common sense would have maybe just awarded a penalty. Given Fletch a yellow at most

deisedevil

Frisbee wrote: »

It's a joke to be fair.
Any review committee would see he got ball before man and certainly wasn't trying to bring him down.
Any ref with an ounce of common sense would have maybe just awarded a penalty. Given Fletch a yellow at most

His hands were tied though, If it was a peno then it had to be a red as he was last man, he was just applying the rules correctly. Pity the decision was wrong to begin with.

itsjaybud

Frisbee wrote: »

It's a joke to be fair.
Any review committee would see he got ball before man and certainly wasn't trying to bring him down.
Any ref with an ounce of common sense would have maybe just awarded a penalty. Given Fletch a yellow at most

The fact of the matter is theyre just not allowed use common sense!!
When he decided to give the penalty, by the book he had to give him a red card.

it wasnt a penalty and the direction the ball took should have been more than enough to convince the ref that he won the ball before cleaning Fabregas out!

A feel sorry for Flecther but alot more for myself and Gibbs!

Dave!

Yeah poor Gibbs... tis always horrible to see that kind of thing He'll be running that through his head for ages

L'prof

Frisbee wrote: »

It's a joke to be fair.
Any review committee would see he got ball before man and certainly wasn't trying to bring him down.
Any ref with an ounce of common sense would have maybe just awarded a penalty. Given Fletch a yellow at most

I agree, something which can maybe be changed for next season!

Smegball

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The elimination of such 'debates' would be rather wonderful as far as I'm concerned. Moreover, the idea that poor refereeing decisions is part of what 'makes football great' is, well...rather baffling tbh.

lol, obviously didn't mean poor refereeing decisions are what make football great, I mean't as in the breaking up of play for decisions would take away from the game imo and would lead to increasing calls for video reviews, could even lead to managers looking at yellow cards, corners etc, could get extremely messy and I would stay away from it tbh.

Mitch Connor

deisedevil wrote: »

His hands were tied though, If it was a peno then it had to be a red as he was last man, he was just applying the rules correctly. Pity the decision was wrong to begin with.

No, the rules state that you CAN dismiss a player for denying a direct goalscoring opportunity - they do not state that you HAVE to. It was a choice the ref made.

Frisbee

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah poor Gibbs... tis always horrible to see that kind of thing He'll be running that through his head for ages

Aye, was happy to see RVP go over to him after and ty console him. something Fabregas should have done imo.

However apparently when he was subbed at HT they all rallied around him to get his head up. Shows good team spirit. Which is about the only plus we could take out of last night

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The elimination of such 'debates' would be rather wonderful as far as I'm concerned. Moreover, the idea that poor refereeing decisions is part of what 'makes football great' is, well...rather baffling tbh.

You would make football sterile. No talking points, no post match analysis, no opinions. It would practicly kill boards like this.

Rugby and Tennis are perfect candidates for video technology as they are very much stop/start sports. The latter is actually a good case in point of how doubt has been taken out of the game and it has sufferered for it.

The best football matches are fast passed action, realisticly the ball is only in play 55-65 minutes on average, adding video would slow it down considerably further, it would be the equilvant of having a finicky referee blowing for every half tackle, so often have games been runined by such officials.

Draupnir

I have to say, I thought Arsenal were a bit dirty at times last night with some of their tackling, in particular Fabregas who seemed pretty hateful in his attitude and demeanour. I can understand taking defeat badly but some of his actions and tackling were overtly about taking the man and not the ball.

Some bad tackles from Nasri and Djourou too, but I guess it goes back to the bad blood between the teams.

I also thought Ronaldo was fairly disrespectful to Arsenal at times, in much the same way Henry used to behave when he scored, and also showboating at 3-0 up in a CL Semi is completely uncalled for in my opinion.

Overall, it was a real dead rubber, men against boys really. It would have been a completely different game with Arshavin, Gallas and Clichy playing. If Arsenal invest some money in the summer they will be a lot stronger next year, unless they lose more players.

GreeBo

Boggles wrote: »

The best football matches are fast passed action, realisticly the ball is only in play 55-65 minutes on average, adding video would slow it down considerably further, it would be the equilvant of having a finicky referee blowing for every half tackle, so often have games been runined by such officials.

It would be the ref's decision to go upstairs as it is in rugby. He is the only person who can decide if he needs to ask for help or not. Using this logic the game would be little different than it is now, apart from far less wrong decisions of course.

Smegball wrote:

could get extremely messy

Any messier than a straight red and a penno that were incorrect?:cool:
What if it was the final and it was 0-0 with 5 mins to go. Do you not think *thats* a far messier situation?

deisedevil

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, the rules state that you CAN dismiss a player for denying a direct goalscoring opportunity - they do not state that you HAVE to. It was a choice the ref made.

Very harsh altogther so, always thought that last man was a straight red myself. No idea why he couldn't have given the yellow then, one way or the other even the ref could see it wasn't an attempt at solely taking down the player, there was a definite attempt at getting the ball. Actually how often do you see a keeper get only a yellow for taking down a player. Just seems worse and worse.

Boggles

GreeBo wrote: »

It would be the ref's decision to go upstairs as it is in rugby. He is the only person who can decide if he needs to ask for help or not. Using this logic the game would be little different than it is now, apart from far less wrong decisions of course.

There are already calls in the rugby fratinity that the amount of time it takes the video referee to rule is killing the game.

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

Just saw extended highlights and that third goal was simply stunning.

monkey9 wrote: »

I switched off after the second goal, but did turn it back on to see Utd's third goal which is a contender for goal of the season. Absolutely brilliant goal. It was football at it's most simple and pure best!!

Have to agree there. Certainly United's best goal and probably the best in the CL all season.

A7X wrote: »

It may have been a peno, but not a red.

This is what i cannot understand. Why didn't the ref just book Fletcher? He didn't have to send him off, as some people seem to think, so just give him a yellow and nobody would be talking about it this morning.

Boggles wrote: »

You can't compare team selection with what actually goes on in the 90 minutes of play, not saving a peno on purpose is cheating, blantent disregard for the game.

If i remember correctly, didn't Fowler 'miss' a peno on purpose about 10 years ago? Wasn't he also applauded for it?

EDIT: Yep, although he claims he didn't do it on purpose:

While playing for Liverpool against Arsenal on March 24 1997, Fowler was involved in a famous incident at Highbury; he won a penalty, appearing to tumble under the challenge of David Seaman, before pleading with the referee Gerald Ashby not to award it, claiming the keeper had not touched him. Seaman saved the penalty, Jason McAteer rammed in the rebound, and Fowler ended up winning Uefa's Fair Play award for his honesty. However, Fowler admitted he did not miss on purpose. "As a goalscorer it's part of my job to take it and I wanted to score it," he said. "I tried to score. I never missed on purpose. It just happened, it was a bad penalty."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/sep/05/theknowledge.sport

jasonorr wrote: »

Personally, I think Barcelona are a better team at the moment, so beat them (if they get past Chelsea of course) and there can be no doubt I suppose!

Sooooo, expanding on that, if Chelsea beat Barcelona, then Barca remain the best team on the planet?

Xavi6

Deleted User wrote: »

If i remember correctly, didn't Fowler 'miss' a peno on purpose about 10 years ago? Wasn't he also applauded for it?

Yeah but good ol' Trigger McAteer scored from the rebound! :pac:

L'prof

Deleted User wrote: »

Sooooo, expanding on that, if Chelsea beat Barcelona, then Barca remain the best team on the planet?

No...it's not as if winning or losing 1 game means you suddenly are or aren't the best team in the world!!! If they reached the final against United, it would be much easier to make a direct comparison between the 2!

Pro. F

Yeh baby! Two finals in a row!

Well happy with the performance last night. I thought we were on top of our game. Every player put in a top performance imo. The two early goals were a bit luck (mistakes from the opposition) but Ronaldo and Park made the most of them and that's what counts. Almunia was at fault for Ronaldo's goal but if Ronaldo hadn't belted in a good effort Almunia wouldn't have had the chance to make the mistake - if that makes sense.

Once we got in front we played the perfect game of defending well and getting at them when the opportunities came - the third goal was fantastic, a joy to watch.

I was worried that we were going to play catanaccio stylee when I saw the line up (and maybe we would have if the game had gone differently) but in fairness Ronaldo's pace was the perfect weapon against their shaky back four. Ronaldo did alright with long balls forward too, which was interesting.

I thought Evra looked really sharp - back to his old self. That's huge for us.

I was a bit sorry for Arsenal, they're a team I like a lot. 4-1 was harsh on them. Their injuries were what sunk them imo (RVP wasn't near his best) and once the early goals went in they were always in danger of being caught on the counter.

Fletcher was unlucky with the red and I'm gutted for him. But it was a foul - he got the ball BUT with a clumsy tackle from behind - definite penalty. No need for more than a yellow though - picky Ref tbh.

PHB

I'm so happy its unreal. Completely deserved victory, we were the much better team over two legs and we really were something.

Ronaldo was just outstanding, utterly outstanding. He's really showing some huge form and if this wasn't a big game I don't know what the hell is.

Rooney was very good as well, as were Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher [who I feel so sad for]

Rome here we come.
Think I'd prefer to play Chelsea in terms of winning, but to be honest, both games will be extremely difficult either way.

SlickRic

PHB wrote: »

Ronaldo was just outstanding, utterly outstanding. He's really showing some huge form and if this wasn't a big game I don't know what the hell is.

to be fair, if anyone still tries the 'big game' argument, they're really scraping the barrel.

grames_bond

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair, if anyone still tries the 'big game' argument, they're really scraping the barrel.

totally and utterly agree, he has struck form at a perfect time! and you could tell at the end of the game exactly what it meant to him! crackin performance, viva ronaldo!

jesus_thats_gre

Am stunned at how bad Arsenal were over both legs.

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Am stunned at how bad Arsenal were over both legs.

what about how good utd were;)

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

what about how good utd were;)

United completely deserved to advance. I just couldn't get over how toothless Arsenal were.

SlickRic

dunphy: 'ronaldo was fantastic, he's on his way out and wants to leave on a high note'

classic.

sh*t stirrer extraordinaire.

MIN2511

Guys, enough about yesterday
tune to RTE and lets see who we will play at the finals

Valmont

He tipped the ball 2cm, then did a flying scissors leg lock on Fabregas and because of that Fabregas didn't even get a chance to kick the ball which was still in front of him. Is the soccer forum usually this devoid of reason? I'm a manchester united supporter too! Goodness gracious me is all I can say.

kinaldo

Reaction from Europe with James Richardson

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2009/may/07/james-richardson-champions-league-football-video