Do people really hate Voyager and Enterprise?

Mal-Adjusted

There is a lot of flak thrown the way of Voyager and (especially) Enterprise. I'm just wondering how much of this is real and how much is simply following the crowd. certainley they can't live up to DS9. if people dislike them, fair enough, but so many times, i've seen them described with the words hate, despise, terrible, etc. i honestly don't see what either of these shows could have done to warrant such strong negative reactions.

Woden

Hate is a strong word. While they are not my favourites of the treks they both had there moments.

I recall really enjoying the final season of enterprise and some of the later seasons of voyager.

DiddyBiddy

I agree. I like both shows but they have their flaws. I always thought voyager started out great but got boring and that enterprise started out boring/cheesy but actually got quite good. I think alot of enterprises problems have to do with that awful song they had at the start

roadwars

What was there to hate about 7 of 9??

Goodshape

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i honestly don't see what either of these shows could have done to warrant such strong negative reactions.

Basically, they squandered their inheritance and ****ed up the family business.

They were never the worst thing on tv (probably fall into the "rubbish I'm prepared to watch" category for me personally) but they were pretty poor and compared to what could have been crafted out of the Star Trek universe, they're very very disappointing.

Goodshape

roadwars wrote: »

What was there to hate about 7 of 9??

Boldly going where pretty much every struggling tv show in search of the male 13 - 24 year old demographic has gone before.

Inspired stuff.

nyarlothothep

In relation to Voy the plots were awful, it was repetitive/bland. Janeway is a very unsympathetic character. 7 of 9 could have been very cool but she was just in your face and another Vulcan/serious alien clone, I think they got the idea for seven right with T'Pol in Enterprise's defense. On the subject of Enterprise, its strange but I find it more compelling than Voy, despite its baffling and profound stupidity I never found it as bad as its made out to be. The difference between Voy/Ent and TOS/TNG and DS9 is that where I would actually give these shows my full attention I just have the former on as background noise, sometimes dipping into them if I have nothing else to do.

Khannie

DiddyBiddy wrote: »

I always thought voyager started out great but got boring and that enterprise started out boring/cheesy

This about sums it up for me. I never made it past season 1 of enterprise and by season 7 of voyager I found it more than a bit yawn. I did enjoy voyager for a while though.

User45701

i dont hate either of them - ive seen almost every episode of both a min of twice. an episode has to be very very bad for me to only watch once

the voyager episode where chakatoy has to dream boxing match fight to make first contact or some such bolllox

the enterprise episode that is somehow on earth as an old western or something

Johnny Storm

FWIW I truly hate Enterprise because IMHO it is a lazy, cynical, could-it-be-any-dumber, p1ss-take of what Star Trek is actually about. No offense intended to anyone.
For me Voyager mostly falls into the "rubbish I'm prepared to watch" category but with a few quite good eps. Certainly, in retrospect, Enterprise makes Voyager look good

chopperbyrne

The first few seasons of Voyager were good, but they really started going downhill from Season 5.

They ruined one of the greatest villains in sci-fi history.

Year of Hell was an excellent episode and is what the last series of Voyager should have been like. In Borg space, fighting for survival constantly.

Instead, they bitchslapped the Borg at every opportunity.

They also could have made more of the Starfleet/Maquis split. Three episodes in, they were one big happy family.

Voyager had some fantastic episodes though, the one with Tom and Harry in the prison stands out for me.

Enterprise just had so much retconning that it was hard to take it seriously at all.

Slice

I think the very best episodes from each series stand up pretty well to the best episodes from all the other series as do the very worse episodes stink just as much as the very worse episodes of all the other series.

Mal-Adjusted

Slice wrote: »

I think the very best episodes from each series stand up pretty well to the best episodes from all the other series as do the very worse episodes stink just as much as the very worse episodes of all the other series.

out of quriosity, what would you say those best & worst episodes were?

Khannie

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Year of Hell was an excellent episode and is what the last series of Voyager should have been like. In Borg space, fighting for survival constantly.

Instead, they bitchslapped the Borg at every opportunity.

Agreed. This got a bit boring after a while. "Oh look....certain death....oh look....no problem at all".

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Voyager had some fantastic episodes though, the one with Tom and Harry in the prison stands out for me.

Damn, that /was/ a good episode. You're right, there were some quality moments in Voyager.

Rawr

roadwars wrote: »

What was there to hate about 7 of 9??

Well now, if you had asked me, "What is there to hate about Voyager?", my answer would have been "7 of 9".

Do these series deserve hatred...nah...the work itself isn't usually as hate-worthy as, the likes of 'Batman and Robin', or Jackie Chan's 'The Medallion' (watch that and you will know true hatred for what you are seeing)

I would say that there are elements of each show, that prevented me from enjoying them all the way though. TNG and DS9 had shows and near entire seasons that I didn't like at all...but that was usually offset by a wealth of good-stuff.

However, for the lenght of Ent, and more than half of Voyager, I couldn't enjoy what I was seeing. All I could see was a horrible mess of poor writing, poor acting, poor directing, or a combination of the three.

Taltos

Have to agree with alot of above.

Voyager - got quite boring and repetitie - Neelix - too much like that annoying creating from the Star Wars movie... Basically besides the Doctor - who else was there to have fun with here. Bit like watching soap dry.

Enterprise - crap music - could have been good - but that last bit with the time war - OMG - US vs Saddam and Terrorists anyone??? That and all the messing with the history just got too much. Some really good characters but they got too caught up in the war on terrorism. But that is what TV does some days - it acts as a mirror or safe outlet for what is going on.

Saddened by the loss of Ent though - especially at how good it could have really been.

GenghisCon

Am I the only person who thoroughly enjoyed the 3rd season of Enterprise? To be honest I thought it was, pound for pound the most compelling season of any trek show. While taken in its entirety, Enterprise is somewhat overwhelming I think the last two seasons really showed potential and took some daring risks plot wise. Would have loved to have seen that continued but such is life...

Mal-Adjusted

GenghisCon wrote: »

Am I the only person who thoroughly enjoyed the 3rd season of Enterprise? To be honest I thought it was, pound for pound the most compelling season of any trek show. While taken in its entirety, Enterprise is somewhat overwhelming I think the last two seasons really showed potential and took some daring risks plot wise. Would have loved to have seen that continued but such is life...

funny enough but yea, think about it, in most peoples eyes the first two seasons of DS9 were largley a waste, as were the first three seasons of TNG. based on this, ENT hit it's stride right on que! it's a shame that t.v. is so cut-troaght these days. if the increase in quality was anything to go by, seasons 5,6 & 7 could have been phenominal. but that is, of course, supposition.

Slice

GenghisCon wrote: »

Am I the only person who thoroughly enjoyed the 3rd season of Enterprise? To be honest I thought it was, pound for pound the most compelling season of any trek show. While taken in its entirety, Enterprise is somewhat overwhelming I think the last two seasons really showed potential and took some daring risks plot wise. Would have loved to have seen that continued but such is life...

As far as story arcs go I though this one was way better than what DS9 came out with

chopperbyrne

Slice wrote: »

As far as story arcs go I though this one was way better than what DS9 came out with

The Dominion story arc lasted four full seasons and never got stale.

Lobelia Overhill

I liked both series, I don't remember ever having that feeling of only watching out of loyalty to the Trek Universe which I did get towards the end of Stargate Atlantis, and The X Files...

Slice

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The Dominion story arc lasted four full seasons and never got stale.

I dunno, I found the arc in Enterprise way more varied and far more gripping than the DS9 arc. You could argue that the DS9 arc didn't get stale if you conveniently overlooked the many and increasingly desperate attempts to recapture what was great about Way of The Warrior with every season finale; season opener and season two-parter thereafter

FutureGuy

TNG found its feet after season 3, as did DS9. Voyager had some of the best 2-parters of any trek (Basics and Year of Hell spring to mind). Enterprise had 2 poor seasons followed by 2 very strong years. If Manny Coto had gotten a fifth season, I think it would have been excellent.

Goodshape

The first couple of TNG seasons weren't that bad. Much more inline with TOS than what came afterwards. I also really enjoyed the first few seasons of DS9. I like my Trek episodes to be mostly self contained science fiction stories... story-arcs can be great but just don't offer the same intrigue and escapism that the best Trek stories do.

TNG and DS9 both had a very definite turning point once they 'settled in' but I think it's unfair to compare their earlier seasons with Voyager or Enterprises low-points.


Also, I've seen a few episodes from ENT season 3 and 4... maybe you have to watch them all sequentially to get into it? Not sure I have the willpower for that. Can't really remember watching any episode of ENT that didn't have me shouting at the screen due to some stupid plot or wincing at the dreadful acting.

Tar.Aldarion

I love every series of trek, each for different reasons. So everybody has a different opinion and it doesn't really matter OP.

Mal-Adjusted

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I love every series of trek, each for different reasons. So everybody has a different opinion and it doesn't really matter OP.

well & good for you, but i was wondering why ENY & VOY get such a bashing from the fans. if you're not going to contribute, why post?

Tar.Aldarion

Because they think they are ****, duh, story, script and acting. Star Trek has been loved by people for a long time and they would hate to see a series ruin it. I was saying why do you care what they think. If you don't know the answer to your question before you asked it you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Mal-Adjusted

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Because they think they are ****, duh, story, script and acting. Star Trek has been loved by people for a long time and they would hate to see a series ruin it. I was saying why do you care what they think. If you don't know the answer to your question before you asked it you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16605_8-most-obnoxious-internet-commenters.html

i'm afraid you're number 6. have a nice day:D

chopperbyrne

Virgin1 showed a lot of good Voyager episodes today.

Year of Hell Part 2 is on right now.

It was part of a greatest ever Star Trek thing.

Apparently they'll be showing more from 11am next Saturday too.

You can vote here: http://www.virgin1.co.uk/shows/we-love-star-trek/favourite-episode-poll.php

Spon Farmer

VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE were two great ideas that were very badly handled.
VOYAGER should have been more gritty in tone, more DS9 best friend, rather TNG's little sister. no matter what happened the ship was always spotless and running in the next episode. half the crew were terrorists yet there was no conflict between them and Starfleet crew members. all perfect little examples of Mankind. Janeway was uninspiring. I liked the EMH though.
ENTERPRISE was good. decent balance of action and drama. likeable but under developed characters. never been a Bakula fan, but Archer was an okay captain, except when he did his tough guy Judge Reinhold routine. I laughed the first two times, and cringed for the rest of the series. never accepted that he could be Kirk's cvhildhood hero. the Temporal Cold War plot was ridiculous and irritating and killed the series chance to make it on it's own. the last season was fantastic. Manny Coto should have been in charge since the start. having the Enterprise based mainly in our solar system and only getting to stretch it's nacelles on special missions was how the series should have started.

btw, did they ever reveal the identity of the holographic guy who was organizing the Suliban?

tj-music.com

I could never really warm up to Enterprise, yet I liked some of the "alternate universe" episodes and T'Pau was HOT. Voyager, in my opinion, could have been better, especially Captain Janeway wasn't convincing enough at times. I would have loved to see Chakoteh as captain or B'lana Torres because they seem o have more guts.

But Voyager had a good crew and memorable characters and storylines.

I do feel however that in comparison to TOS and TNG as well as, to a certain extend, DS9 it lacked "heart" and because they were always trying to get home, everything felt rushed.

But HATE is too strong a word to be used.