Do people really hate Voyager and Enterprise?

monellia

Voyager had many redeeming qualities. The overall theme was unique and original without the writers having to change things too much. I loved the way most of the episodes had an underlying message, and I also liked the way the characters' personalities were explored and developed a lot more than in TNG and DS9.

Enterprise was probably my least favourite of the franchise but I defo don't think it deserves the disparagement it gets from ST fans. It was accessible to non-trekkies, had interesting storylines and the cinematic aspects were sublime. I liked it anyway.

duffman13

I have always been a serious trekkie, right from the TOS till Voyager and DS9. I waited with baited breath for enterprise, really thought it had a lot off potential after a couple of episodes. The main problem for me was i couldnt relate to the charachters, in DS9 there was more gritty determintion not to give up by the crew and the characters and relationships developed well. It really gave the viewer something to relate to, this was the main reason i could never get into Enterprise.

In defence of Voyager after the first episode and they ended up in the Delta quadrant it was always gonna be hard to keep it fresh, i actually enjoyed every series off it and really liked the final episodes however there are a couple off episodes that were poor and never actually made a point. I do find some of the Borg storylines good but also a bit ridiculous based on past experiences of Starfleet with the Borg. If Voyager had off been before TNG it probably would have been more acclaimed by Trekkies

Pride Fighter

I have about half a dozen friends who like star trek. All of them prefer TNG as the number 1 series and they all agree that DS9 was the worst of the series. I would agree with them, I'd put Enterprise and Voyager in the middle of TNG and DS9 with TOS 1st.

livinginkorea

I watch TNG when I was a lot younger so don't remember it much at all. I finished DS9 a couple of months ago and I really liked it. A pretty big cast too with characters coming back again and again. Good story lines too (around a war which no other series did) except I got tired of the 'religion' part at times. I think Voyager lacks a large cast, but it is good to watch, I just started season 6. Not so sure if Voyager would be better than DS9 though to be honest. No idea about Enterprise yet. It's on my to do list but I have heard a lot of people complaining about it.

_Kaiser_

monellia wrote: »

Voyager had many redeeming qualities. The overall theme was unique and original without the writers having to change things too much. I loved the way most of the episodes had an underlying message, and I also liked the way the characters' personalities were explored and developed a lot more than in TNG and DS9.

I was with you right up till this point. DS9 had FAR superior character (and secondary character) development over its run. Think back to how characters like Garak, Rom, Nog changed over the 7 years. Even the alternate universe characters went through more changes than Voyager's primary cast!

In Voyager:
- Chakotay hardly changed at all save for a out-of-nowhere romance with Seven in the finalé
- Ditto Harry Kim. 7 years as an ensign until he finally makes captain in an alternate future that now never happens
- Tuvok, Torres and Paris do a bit better but the bulk of the storylines (and thus any development) went to the Doctor, Seven and Janeway.

As for Enterprise... rubbish from start to finish, save for the alternate reality "In a Mirror, Darkly" two-parter which was really only any good because the actors played characters that were completely the opposite their normal dull selves. Plus the alternate title sequence was creative.

Blazer

I like Enterprise..episodes such as the first human transporter...where the Prime directive came from etc.
Voyager I disliked..couldn't stand Janeway and they destroyed our image of the Borg. The Doctor and Tom were the only characters I liked..
DS9 was a fantastic show ruined by a few ****e episodes every season.

I'd go: Original/TNG, DS9, Enterprise,Voyager

norrie rugger

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I have about half a dozen friends who like star trek. All of them prefer TNG as the number 1 series and they all agree that DS9 was the worst of the series. I would agree with them, I'd put Enterprise and Voyager in the middle of TNG and DS9 with TOS 1st.

And you would all be wrong

norrie rugger

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

I like Enterprise..episodes such as the first human transporter...where the Prime directive came from etc.
Voyager I disliked..couldn't stand Janeway and they destroyed our image of the Borg. The Doctor and Tom were the only characters I liked..
DS9 was a fantastic show ruined by a few ****e episodes every season.

I'd go: Original/TNG, DS9, Enterprise,Voyager

You can not ruin a season with 1 or 2 crap episodes
Just like you can not save a season with 1 or 2 good ones

norrie rugger

tj-music.com wrote: »

T'Pau was HOT.

Interesting taste


Or as she was in Enterprise, still not great

norrie rugger

Now T'Pol
Phwarrrr

Mal-Adjusted

norrie rugger wrote: »

And you would all be wrong

calm down mate, everything here is subjective. there is no right & wrong:D

norrie rugger

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

calm down mate, everything here is subjective. there is no right & wrong:D

Silly thing about text based conversations
I was just being sarcastic, sounded better in my head

now leave me alone to look at the T'Pol pic, yum

komodosp

They also could have made more of the Starfleet/Maquis split. Three episodes in, they were one big happy family.

This pretty much epitomises what I didn't like about Voyager. There was so much potential for conflict to make it interesting. They were trapped in a claustrophobic-ish ship, Starfleet and Maquis being forced to work together, excellent opportunity for character development, with the crew being at odds with each other, but trapped together.
I thought they could have made more of Tom Paris - he came from a penal colony, but the most rebellious thing he did is talk naturally (as opposed Starfleet formal language the rest of them seem to do) and try to have a bit of a laugh.
You had the Borg which are loved because they are a powerful, scary menace, one ship capable of wiping out a whole Armada. Yet even they are defeated in Voyager.

In TNG, the character development wasn't the greatest either, except maybe with Worf and Data, but it offered great mystery, and kind of twist endings to their stories. They didn't simply reverse polarity on the ionic phase pulse manipulators to get them out of every jam. Especially in the early to middle series, which IMHO are TNG's best...

Pride Fighter

norrie rugger wrote: »

You can not ruin a season with 1 or 2 crap episodes
Just like you can not save a season with 1 or 2 good ones

Like DS9, utter muck.
Season 1, no good episodes
Season 2, utter muck, 1 good episode, the season finale with the runabouts fighting the Jem'hadar.
Season 3, first good one but still weak. Season opener good, first ep with the defiant. Thomas Riker episode. Gabriel Bell episode, Obsidian order/Talshiar invasion of dominion, season ending episode. Rest was muck.
Season 4, muck. Only good episode the way of the warrior. Disappointing ending with Odo turned human.
Season 5, decent in patches, episode with the crashed Jem hadar ship good. Introduction of the dominion to Alpha quadrant good.
Season 6, I despised parts of it. Particularly the episode with Sisko as a Sci-Fi writer in the 1950's, worst idea ever.
Season 7, I despise Vic Fontaine. Worst character ever.

DS9, great in parts, mostly muck.

Johnny Storm

Pride Fighter wrote: »

...
Season 6, I despised parts of it. Particularly the episode with Sisko as a Sci-Fi writer in the 1950's, worst idea ever.
.....

D'oh!

nyarlothothep

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Like DS9, utter muck.
Season 1, no good episodes
Season 2, utter muck, 1 good episode, the season finale with the runabouts fighting the Jem'hadar.
Season 3, first good one but still weak. Season opener good, first ep with the defiant. Thomas Riker episode. Gabriel Bell episode, Obsidian order/Talshiar invasion of dominion, season ending episode. Rest was muck.
Season 4, muck. Only good episode the way of the warrior. Disappointing ending with Odo turned human.
Season 5, decent in patches, episode with the crashed Jem hadar ship good. Introduction of the dominion to Alpha quadrant good.
Season 6, I despised parts of it. Particularly the episode with Sisko as a Sci-Fi writer in the 1950's, worst idea ever.
Season 7, I despise Vic Fontaine. Worst character ever.

DS9, great in parts, mostly muck.

Vic Fontaine was a daft character. The whole 60s mafia fantasy subplot was completely out of place in star trek, very un trek imo.

Rawr

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Vic Fontaine was a daft character. The whole 60s mafia fantasy subplot was completely out of place in star trek, very un trek imo.

He pretty much ruined what was an ok final season for DS9. If I rememebr right, they even had an episode dedicated to this damned character. (I cannot rememeber details of that episode, as I cannot bring myself to watch it.)

Berman and Co. seemed to have a thing for crooners and this particular genre of music. It crops up quite a bit in TNG era series. One might be mistaken, in thinking that they were trying to generate interest in it again, by brainwashing Trekkies! :-)

The Black Oil

I've not seen Enterprise so I can't comment there.

Nelix and Harry Kim - head. brick. wall.

Mal-Adjusted

The Black Oil wrote: »

I've not seen Enterprise so I can't comment there.

Nelix and Harry Kim - head. brick. wall.

To be fair, Harry Kim got some much needed character development and decent stories later on in the show. i actually found myself liking him from season 4 on.
Neelix...Grr. All i can say is that from season three on, his role is MUCH more reduced.

dyl10

DS9 and Voyager were good.
Enterprise is trash.

Don't ever put vocals in a Star Trek intro again!

Scráib

The thing I notice with Star Trek is that the first few seasons of every series are usually rubbish, and then as they get on they get better. Voyager for example was awful awful awful in the first few series, then it slowly got better. Same with all the others.

Enterprise was fair, the final season was good becuase they got all the decent plotlines they probably had planned and condensed them into one season.

Slice

I thought that DS9 and Voyager were at their best during the middle seasons and got progressively worse towards the end. Like seasons 3, 4 and 5

chopperbyrne

dyl10 wrote: »

DS9 and Voyager were good.
Enterprise is trash.

Don't ever put vocals in a Star Trek intro again!

Huh?

"Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages....."

DS9 and Voyager were the odd ones out when it came to vocals in the intro.

Pride Fighter

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Huh?

"Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages....."

DS9 and Voyager were the odd ones out when it came to vocals in the intro.

He means signing not the infamous 'space the final frontier'.

thelordofcheese

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Season 1, no good episodes

Duet wants a word, kid.

Pride Fighter

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Duet wants a word, kid.

A bad episode. If you think that is good you must have low Star Trek standards.

dyl10

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Huh?

Lyrical vocals

thelordofcheese

Pride Fighter wrote: »

A bad episode. If you think that is good you must have low Star Trek standards.

That's one of the best episodes of star trek, easily top 10 material. and thats not just my opinion, it's something that's been recognised by more than just I. It was included in the 1994 Museum of Television and Radio's "Tribute to Excellence" for a start.

honestly, some people wouldn't know quality if it lept up and smacked them right in the face.

Pride Fighter

thelordofcheese wrote: »

That's one of the best episodes of star trek, easily top 10 material. and thats not just my opinion, it's something that's been recognised by more than just I. It was included in the 1994 Museum of Television and Radio's "Tribute to Excellence" for a start.

honestly, some people wouldn't know quality if it lept up and smacked them right in the face.

It is muck, Galatep or some rubbish is mentioned. Some Bajoran weirdo stabs the Cardi, if you think that is good, you obviously dont know quality if it smacked you.

Myrddin

Like most of us here, Ive seen all episodes of all series. Im currently watching TNG again, after finishing all three seasons of TOS (+ 1-6 Movies).

Im watching trek since season 5 of TNG was airing on tv and was sold as soon as I got into it. I can honestly say I enjoyed every incarnation of trek, my favourite being DS9 admittedly, followed by TNG, then TOS, and then VOY/ENT coming in last. Not that last means last to me, I actually enjoyed watching them a lot. I think ENT is slightly ahead of VOY in terms of watchability, but every series hooks you in.

In saying that, TNG has the WORST episode of ANY series of trek. Having watched it recently, I struggled, for the sake of completion, not to skip past it. Horrifically bad, dreadful, dreadful episode. Say what you want about DS9/VOY/ENT - not one of them has an episode as bad as this.........Season 2.....Episode 4.....The Outrageous Okona........utter televised feces.

There are many, many weak episodes early on in TNG. A trait I found similar in Voyager, but not as bad. But yet it matured and grew into probably the most popular series of them all. If ENT had of been allowed to run, Im sure like its predessor, it would have matured and developed.

My tupence