HSE your view?

Steyr

Seeing as we cant really go 1 day without hearing about the HSE in anyway shape or form im wondering whats your view on the HSE such as have you ever been waiting ages to be seen etc, i have been in twice for relatively minor stuff but found it to be fine and never had any problems so do you think its all alot of hype about it being THAT bad or that in reality its ok?

Terry

I smoke 40 a day. I drink 10-12 cans a night.
I eat fatty foods and I don't exercise.
I'm 20 stone.

Would you like to see me in charge of the HSE?

Mary Harney is fat as **** and that's not healthy.
She's also incompetent.

Tech3

Steyr wrote: »

Seeing as we cant really go 1 day without hearing about the HSE in anyway shape or form im wondering whats your view on the HSE such as have you ever been waiting ages to be seen etc, i have been in twice for relatively minor stuff but found it to be fine and never had any problems so do you think its all alot of hype about it being THAT bad or that in reality its ok?

They are a complete waste of taxpayers money. There is also many other areas where our public sector is too bloated. I cant see them lasting any longer than a few more years. A whole restructing needs to be done in the health service

tony1kenobi

I've been waiting for an appointment from Portiuncula hospital to remove a cyst from my eyelid since 1993.

That cyst got so bored waiting it just left.

Senna

The front line staff aren't the problem so your average experience in any hospital for a minor illness will normal be a good experience, its when you have some serious illness and your on a waiting list for 12 months or have to travel 200 miles of something routine or be denighed treatment as its too expensive, thats when people get pissed off. Of course if the HSE wasn't so bloated with middle management and admin staff, they might have more money for these services.

Kinetic^

I'd gladly have Michael O'Leary as dictator of this country in order to get us out of the pile of shite we're in.

Nightwish

I'm a HSE employee and the organisation is a joke. Mary Harney may be the Minister for Health, but any blame aimed at her is always sent straight back to the HSE Management. Speaking of which, its incredibly bloated at management level.

At hospital, and front line level, I thankfully havent had any experience since the old Health Board system was in place. Ancedotal evidence tells me though that things have gotten much worse. Our local A&E is fine, but I wouldnt like to be admitted to the hospital. I've heard way too many horror stories about the place.

thelordofcheese

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I'd gladly have Michael O'Leary as dictator of this country in order to get us out of the pile of shite we're in.

Ahahahahahahahaha.

No.

Hogzy

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I'd gladly have Michael O'Leary as dictator of this country in order to get us out of the pile of shite we're in.

id like to hear his ideas though!!!

chocgirl

Also work for the hse, although have to say I'm embarrassed to admit it most of the time. As has already been said front line staff are working extremely hard under enormous pressure with little resources. It's the admin and middle management upwards that are destroying the service and getting away with it. Too many chiefs and all that, everyone just doing the bare minimum to cover their own asses. Don't have an answer Michael O Leary wouldn't be any worse that what we've got!

PrivateEye

My Dad is 22 years in the Dublin Fire Brigade, so he's spent plenty of that time on the Ambulance service, dealing with the HSE services. He's said its actually got WORSE with time.

Fine people in it doing the actual work, far too many suits at the top....but what in Ireland does that not sum up perfectly?


As for it not being 'that bad'- with 'that bad' being the media presentation of it. It's not that bad- it's far worse. Ask people that deal with it on a nightly basis, the people working in terrible conditions within it, and the relatives of people who've actually died as a result of its poor resources

amacachi

I was waiting 3 years for an appointment to see an ENT doctor to tell me I needed an operation on my nose, which I knew, as did my GP. I ended up being sent to Omagh a couple of years ago and was kept in for 2 nights, whereas down here I wouldn't have taken up a bed for a night. So I'm sure the HSE got a nice big bill from the NHS for the favour.:rolleyes:
The trouble with any state-run medical system is that it's run purely for political reasons. In Omagh there were probably more nurses than patients. About 2:1 on the ward I was on, on the busiest night. Had the bombing not happened the hospital would have closed years ago. Down here the government also seems set on keeping as many half-hearted hospitals open as possible, just to dilute services as much as possible, while not cutting costs by an awful lot.

My favorite time being in hospital was when I was having an asthma attack. Was in the waiting area for about 3 hours when a lad came in with his ma. He was working on a building site and had an accident, bone showing through his shin etc. So he got seen to within about 10 minutes, which I thought was fair enough and some knacker started givin out **** to the nurses that she was there first.:rolleyes: Must be great for the staff having to deal with that kind of idiocy.

I've not had horrible experiences with the health service, and lately most of my family have had fairly positive ones. They do seem to like giving as many drugs and injections as possible when you're going to be paying for it though, since I got a medical card they don't seem to over-prescribe as much, probably because there's no cash in it.

There needs to be reform, but it'll take a government with balls to do it. A country our size should have an excellent health service for the amount of money we're spending, but it's hard to see a government having the nuts to shut hospitals and make things more efficient when votes are on the line.

mikemac

The health board system was a mess, full of politcal appointees and people who had the right friends, mega expenses for all.

So the HSE was an excellent idea, get medical staff and professional management to run the health service.
A golden opportunity was lost when they merged the health boards but failed to make anyone redundant.

We could pump an extra 10 billion in the health service now and a lot would bring great improvements but more would be wasted by clipboard carriers with unnecessary roles. I'm not laying the blame on front line staff even if the INO could do with being a bit less militant.
If someone had unlimited power and could face down strikes, the system could be sorted within a year.

I think Mary Harney is one of the most capable politicans around. But she doesn't have the power she needs and instead of forcing through plans, it seems vested interest needs to be appeased first.

FlutterinBantam

Very simply and succinctly- the health service costs too much.

The taxpayer is not getting value for money,powerful vested interests have resisted change ad nauseum and sectional and political vested interests have little regard for efficiencies and best practice as long as "their hospital" is preserved.They have no interest in what that costs the taxpayer, and whether it is cost efficient or not.

Couple that with rampant absenteeism as highlighted by a recent document,one can easily see why the HSE is a black hole for taxpayers money.

Each vested interest throws out various red herrings when ever they come under scrutiny, and when their representatives,who can talk for Ireland,come on, the unitiated and ill informed would think they are the only people working in the country.

Wake up taxpayers,you are being bled dry by these bloated tapeworms.

You don't need too much cop on to realise that.

Rented Mule

My view onthe HSE is pretty simple.

It's just fine so long as you don't get sick or injured.

FlutterinBantam

Senna wrote: »

The front line staff aren't the problem so your average experience in any hospital for a minor illness will normal be a good experience, its when you have some serious illness and your on a waiting list for 12 months or have to travel 200 miles of something routine or be denighed treatment as its too expensive, thats when people get pissed off. Of course if the HSE wasn't so bloated with middle management and admin staff, they might have more money for these services.

The frontline staff are the problem,and the backroom staff, and the management,and the consultants, and the domestic staff.


YOU COST TOO MUCH

irish_bob

chocgirl wrote: »

Also work for the hse, although have to say I'm embarrassed to admit it most of the time. As has already been said front line staff are working extremely hard under enormous pressure with little resources. It's the admin and middle management upwards that are destroying the service and getting away with it. Too many chiefs and all that, everyone just doing the bare minimum to cover their own asses. Don't have an answer Michael O Leary wouldn't be any worse that what we've got!

and who,s fault is this , thats right , the unions

the hse as it stands at the moment exists primarily to provide employment for those who work within it

FlutterinBantam

irish_bob wrote: »

and who,s fault is this , thats right , the unions

the hse as it stands at the moment exists primarily to provide employment for those who work within it

Perhaps a tad simplistic, but not too far off the mark.

thelordofcheese

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The frontline staff are the problem,and the backroom staff, and the management,and the consultants, and the domestic staff.


YOU COST TOO MUCH

what a load of shit.

The well document problem with the HSE is the absurdly high ratio of administrative staff Vs doctors and nurses. I don't know what twisted logic you used to come up with blaming the frontline staff for being part of the problem. They're the poor bastards that have to actually deal with caring for the sick and injured. Frankly, i don't see how anyone could level any measure of blame at them without having some kind of personal grudge or being just plain wrong.

shoutman

The Catholic Church has 4 managerial levels, the HSE has about 15!

It's just managers managing managers, would love to see some of the middle managers writing out what their job is, it would consist of "well ahhh I make sure X,Y,Z is doing this then I tell A,B,C, what X,Y,Z is doing. Very important"

Mr.Lizard

I work on a HSE related operation that has run nearly 2 years over schedule due mainly to the general imcompetance and lack of cooperation from many their affiliated hospitals. Hospitals who have poor administration and unhelpful, lazy staff. They really are a nightmare to deal with. Despite coming under the HSE umbella a lot of these places seem to out of controll and answerable to nobody. As a result they find lifting a finger to be a foriegn concept. Net result is my continued salary comes straight out of their budget ... and therefore out of your pocket (no end in sight btw).

thelordofcheese

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I work on a HSE related operation that has run nearly 2 years over schedule due mainly to the general imcompetance and lack of cooperation from many their affiliated hospitals. Hospitals who have poor administration and unhelpful, lazy staff. They really are a nightmare to deal with. Despite coming under the HSE umbella a lot of these places seem to out of controll and answerable to nobody. As a result find lifting a finger to be a foriegn concept. Net result is my continued salary comes straight out of their budget ... and therefore out of your pocket.

If you find it so objectionable, you could always quit in protest.

Mrmoe

The problem is not that there are too many administration staff but less flexibility in some areas by staff who are critical to the smooth running of the health care system. If consultants were available more readily then patients could go home earlier thus freeing up beds and reducing waiting times. As it currently stands a patient might come in on a Friday evening and not see a consultant/ get a MRI scan until the following Monday. In the meantime that patient is sitting in bed twiddling their thumbs. Instead that patient could be seen and treated within about 24 hours. This is not my own opinion. I have asked nurses who work there and this what they attribute the problem to and how to solve it. These are the people (nurses, doctors, consultants) we should be asking as they see the problems everyday.

Mr.Lizard

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If you find it so objectionable, you could always quit in protest.

Why would I quit my (non-HSE) job just because the HSE are incompetent?

Caoimhín

Terry wrote: »

Mary Harney is fat as **** and that's not healthy.
She's also incompetent.

Play the ball, not the person.

I once spent 8 hours on the floor of the A&E with a cracked spine. I dont know of any other country that would happen in.

FlutterinBantam

thelordofcheese wrote: »

what a load of shit.

The well document problem with the HSE is the absurdly high ratio of administrative staff Vs doctors and nurses. I don't know what twisted logic you used to come up with blaming the frontline staff for being part of the problem. They're the poor bastards that have to actually deal with caring for the sick and injured. Frankly, i don't see how anyone could level any measure of blame at them without having some kind of personal grudge or being just plain wrong.

My friend, you obviously didn't understand the problem.

let me explain.

A service has a certain cost,say a hairdressers.

Now if your local hairdressers paid their staff €150 per hour and charged you as a result €300 for a visit,how do you think they would do?

Correct and right-out of business in a flash.

Now the hairdressers themselves might be perfect,totally skilled and good at their job,but,I say again, but, they cost too much.

Now they can work all the hours God gave them,but unless the COST BASE comes down people will not pay.

Now extrapolate that to the HSE and the Govt and taxpayer is the customer
and think it out for yourself, don't jump on the auld Flutt and kick him in the plums.


By the way the ratio of staff to mgmnt in the HSE is 14%

have a good good day sir.:D

Quazzie

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

By the way the ratio of staff to mgmnt in the HSE is 14%

14% isn't a ratio. Much like most of your posts this fails at a very fundamental level. Have a good good day sir.:D

Breaktown

I must say, I really love their logic of closing the A&E in Nenagh and Ennis hospitals so that people can travel to the "Centre of Excellence" in Limerick, which is unequipped to deal with any more patients. One man has already died because of that.

http://www.independent.ie/health/latest-news/my-dying-husband-had-no-ae-to-go-to-1713697.html

Professey Chin

Caoimhín wrote: »

Play the ball, not the person.

Have you seen mary harney?
She is the ball!!:eek:

Caoimhín

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Have you seen mary harney?
She is the ball!!:eek:

Fairnuff, but poor Mary has feelings too. She could be at home in bed reading this and crying her eyes out, sad, sad tears running down her belly and mixing with chocolate icecream and fried chicken.

FlutterinBantam

If you want to be pedantic and anal, hey ,fine

The percentage of management in the HSE is 14%.

Quite frankly your attitude typifies the malaise in the HSE, everyone thinks THEY are the ones keeping the ship together, when in reality a sea change is needed.

The taxpaying public cannot afford the current set up, pump more money in and more people in the HSE would lie back and say sure plenty of shills. here, we'll slap in another wage rise,better conditions, and sure we'll call in sick if don't fee'll like working.


Back to basics, weed out the double jobbers, the passengers, the non achievers , malingerers,and the coasters.

Hold on to the people who are dedicated and want to do the job for a fair wage and show some enterprise and enthusiasm.

that's the way I'd sort it out:D


Game is up lads.

FlutterinBantam

Breaktown wrote: »

I must say, I really love their logic of closing the A&E in Nenagh and Ennis hospitals so that people can travel to the "Centre of Excellence" in Limerick, which is unequipped to deal with any more patients. One man has already died because of that.

http://www.independent.ie/health/latest-news/my-dying-husband-had-no-ae-to-go-to-1713697.html

I love the logic of an expensive fully staffed hospital in towns where they get 3 or four people per night.

byhookorbycrook

Spent 8 hours last summer waiting to be admitted. The radiologist and the nurse seemed to be having a row and kept saying "tell that nurse I said.." and sending me back to A and E, then I'd be sent back down with a "tell him I said",not ideal at any stage but especially when you have mobility problems. When I did get to a bed it was beside a window which was jammed half open and wouldn't close. he 4 days I was there, I looked at rubbish under two beds that was never removed.Twice a nurse tried to give me the wrong tablets, when corrected she gave me the wrong dose.


Later last summer I was admitted to a Bons ,place was spotless, staff from domestic to consultant professional and helpful.

The two-tier in one easy illustration.

How come one can do things so well and the other so badly?Because one in a public hospital under the HSE, the other by a private company.So it would seem the fault is with HSE Admin.

Saibh

Until someone or a few people who work in middle/higher management wake up and see for themselves that the HSE is in a mess, nothing will change.

papajimsmooth

amacachi wrote: »

I've not had horrible experiences with the health service, and lately most of my family have had fairly positive ones. They do seem to like giving as many drugs and injections as possible when you're going to be paying for it though, since I got a medical card they don't seem to over-prescribe as much, probably because there's no cash in it.

Thats just retarded, its not as if the nurse's and doctors are on a commission for every drug they give you, sure GP's in Ireland prescribe too many antibiotics but thats a different story.

galwayrush

The way Mary Hearney is pushing it, we will only have improved private health for the rich and a worse public system for the rest of us who obviously don't count.

galwayrush

I know one guy working in the HSE,middle management, got promotion but can't honestly can't say what he is suppost to be doing.

thelordofcheese

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Why would I quit my (non-HSE) job just because the HSE are incompetent?

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My friend, you obviously didn't understand the problem.

let me explain.

A service has a certain cost,say a hairdressers.

Now if your local hairdressers paid their staff €150 per hour and charged you as a result €300 for a visit,how do you think they would do?

Correct and right-out of business in a flash.

Now the hairdressers themselves might be perfect,totally skilled and good at their job,but,I say again, but, they cost too much.

Now they can work all the hours God gave them,but unless the COST BASE comes down people will not pay.

Now extrapolate that to the HSE and the Govt and taxpayer is the customer
and think it out for yourself, don't jump on the auld Flutt and kick him in the plums.


By the way the ratio of staff to mgmnt in the HSE is 14%

have a good good day sir.:D

A doctor is not a hairdresser, your analogy fails because you're not compairing like with like. Peoples health is worth more than a good haircut.

Basically, you want top class service at bottom dollar prices. That will never happen. It's a childish and naive approach.
While the HSE could well do with a restructuring, but applying amateurish caricatures of business rules to it and claiming "that'll fix it" is wishful thinking at it's most harmful.

"A fair days wage", what does that mean exactly, especially in relation to doctors and nurses?

FlutterinBantam

thelordofcheese wrote: »

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.




A doctor is not a hairdresser, your analogy fails because you're not compairing like with like. Peoples health is worth more than a good haircut.

Basically, you want top class service at bottom dollar prices. That will never happen. It's a childish and naive approach.
While the HSE could well do with a restructuring, but applying amateurish caricatures of business rules to it and claiming "that'll fix it" is wishful thinking at it's most harmful.

"A fair days wage", what does that mean exactly, especially in relation to doctors and nurses?

Incorrect my friend,you fail because you believe health per se has a worth.

Service has a worth , my friend,and service costs reflect the ability of the customer to pay.

Would a state of the art hospital flourish in Haiti?

Would the locals be able to pay the staff like those in Ireland are paid.

No ,my friend, they would not.

My friend, your amateurish rebuttals of my arguments are to say the least puerile and contrived.

I'll spell it out.

Ireland Inc. can only afford a certain level of healthcare.

If the service providers are greedy and consumed with selfish aggrandisment then the consumer will tell them to get a fookin' bit of cop on before the whole scenario collapses.

Everybody knows this, all that is lacking is someone with the balls and chutzpah to tell these cnunts to get real.

Brian... Ola... Hello there......

papajimsmooth

According to figures from the Health Service Employers Agency on the salary scales for junior doctors, an intern junior doctor earns €35,534 per annum, while the salary scale for House Officers goes from €41,177 to €58,374.

The figures also show that the scale for Registrars goes from €53,869 to €64,384; the pay-scale for Specialist Registrar goes from €64,491 to €81,747 while the pay for Senior Registrars goes from €69,835 to €85,520.

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

galwayrush

papajimsmooth wrote: »

According to figures from the Health Service Employers Agency on the salary scales for junior doctors, an intern junior doctor earns €35,534 per annum, while the salary scale for House Officers goes from €41,177 to €58,374.

The figures also show that the scale for Registrars goes from €53,869 to €64,384; the pay-scale for Specialist Registrar goes from €64,491 to €81,747 while the pay for Senior Registrars goes from €69,835 to €85,520.

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

The problem is too many non productive people getting the wages.;)

FlutterinBantam

Heh heh, now there's naive and naive.

Mr.Lizard

thelordofcheese wrote: »

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.

I assure you I'd have plenty of other work to keep me busy & gainfully employed had his particular job been completed on schedule, so the idea that they are keeping me in a job is an incorrect one. I'm not benefitting from the situation and tbh I'd be as happier than you to see the end of what I am currently doing. I'm merely pointing out that HSE has managed to protract a situation that should have been concluded 2 years ago thru their own inneffiency, lack of cooperation, laziness and general incompetence.

Caoimhín

papajimsmooth wrote: »

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

First of all that doesnt include overtime, and secondly, if a person studies medicine and becomes a doctor for financial reward then, in my opinion, they are doing it for the wrong reason.

CDfm

They might work hard but they cost an awful amount of money and give little return for the billions upon billions of euro more budgeted for them in the celtic tiger era.

The HSE and Dept of Health needs a massive CULL

Why do we need both HSE and DoH -we only need one -fire the other.

The Nursing Proffession and INO who represent them are a joke -fire em and replace them with cost and efficient Philipino Nurses. Irish nurses are pampered and lazy.

The are about unions and politics not about heath care.

Whatever you say -we cant afford them and they should fess up to the dreadful jobs and waste and push off elsewhere.

Carawaystick

The HSE decides where you can get married in Ireland. What has this go to do with health services?

If you want to get married you and your fiancé need to take time off work and go in person to see some hse minion to beg their permission. They don't open weekends or lunchtime. What has this got to do with the health service?

I spent over 2 hours one night in the Mater hospital A&E to get a tubular bandage put on. I assumed it was something special not like the two different ones I had at home so I waited like an eejit. By the time I got the bandage it was after 10pm and the pharmacy had closed so I couldn't get my painkillers and the doctor wouldn't give me any.

holly1

I have a friend who is a sister in a certin hospital and she says the amount of waste that goes on is UNBELIVEABLE,she blames management and M.H.

CDfm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The HSE decides where you can get married in Ireland. What has this go to do with health services?

If you want to get married you and your fiancé need to take time off work and go in person to see some hse minion to beg their permission. They don't open weekends or lunchtime. What has this got to do with the health service?

I spent over 2 hours one night in the Mater hospital A&E to get a tubular bandage put on. I assumed it was something special not like the two different ones I had at home so I waited like an eejit. By the time I got the bandage it was after 10pm and the pharmacy had closed so I couldn't get my painkillers and the doctor wouldn't give me any.

That says it all - pampered prima donnas - let loose doing everything they can to avoid providing the services they need to.

Remember the patient on trollies figures the nurses used to release - it just showed usall they werent doing their jobs.

holly1 wrote: »

I have a friend who is a sister in a certin hospital and she says the amount of waste that goes on is UNBELIVEABLE,she blames management and M.H.

You are just proving it and people like your friend sit idly by and do nothing.

why doesnt she whistleblow to the newspapers.

FlutterinBantam

Why doesn't she get off her fat arse and do something about it!!!

chocgirl

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why doesn't she get off her fat arse and do something about it!!!

Not that simple, who does she complain to? She's effectively gagged by the HSE, part of the contract. If she cracks down on staff working under her she can be accused of bullying.

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

Not that simple, who does she complain to? She's effectively gagged by the HSE, part of the contract. If she cracks down on staff working under her she can be accused of bullying.

She would be doing her job which is managing and if she doesnt do that then she is incompetant and should not be in the job.

She is part of the problem and should be fired.