HSE your view?

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

She would be doing her job which is managing and if she doesnt do that then she is incompetant and should not be in the job.

She is part of the problem and should be fired.

I agree that it's part of the problem but it's not going to change, allegations of bullying are taken extremely seriously by the hse, unions love this kind of thing and clinical staff are given very little training in actually managing staff when they get to that grade. I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

I agree that it's part of the problem but it's not going to change, allegations of bullying are taken extremely seriously by the hse, unions love this kind of thing and clinical staff are given very little training in actually managing staff when they get to that grade. I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

her job is to manage and thats what she should do.

she knows it but wants to be liked by her staff. When she took on a post of responsibility that should have stopped.

its not bullying to ask a subordinate to do their job -in fact by not doing so she is disrespecting patients and you and i the taxpayer.

If her staff dont do what they are supposed to do they leave the patients down - I saw this with a relative of mine in hospital and people like your friend are dangerous in the extreme IMHO.

If it was your Mum Or Dad you wouldnt be quite so relaxed.

Nightwish

chocgirl wrote: »

I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

Most hospital managers are in fact nurses.

CDfm

Nightwish wrote: »

Most hospital managers are in fact nurses.

OMG:eek:

Thats the problem.

irish_bob

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If you want to be pedantic and anal, hey ,fine

The percentage of management in the HSE is 14%.

Quite frankly your attitude typifies the malaise in the HSE, everyone thinks THEY are the ones keeping the ship together, when in reality a sea change is needed.

The taxpaying public cannot afford the current set up, pump more money in and more people in the HSE would lie back and say sure plenty of shills. here, we'll slap in another wage rise,better conditions, and sure we'll call in sick if don't fee'll like working.


Back to basics, weed out the double jobbers, the passengers, the non achievers , malingerers,and the coasters.

Hold on to the people who are dedicated and want to do the job for a fair wage and show some enterprise and enthusiasm.

that's the way I'd sort it out:D


Game is up lads.

that requires political will and bravery which this goverment has none of , a coalition of fine gael - labour could not deal with the problem either as labours masters ,the unions would not allow it , anyone who,s main priority is to sort out our health service must do one thing , vote fine gael and pray that they can form a goverment without labour

CDfm

irish_bob wrote: »

that requires political will and bravery which this goverment has none of , a coalition of fine gael - labour could not deal with the problem either as labours masters ,the unions would not allow it , anyone who,s main priority is to sort out our health service must do one thing , vote fine gael and pray that they can form a goverment without labour

its not a political matter its a management issue.

the HSE are tasked with managing the service and the INO make it political.

they should bite the bullet with reaslistic staff evaluations and job descriptions and just get on with it.

if that leads to strikes face them but kow towing to unions is just perpetuating thew misery

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

her job is to manage and thats what she should do.

she knows it but wants to be liked by her staff. When she took on a post of responsibility that should have stopped.

its not bullying to ask a subordinate to do their job -in fact by not doing so she is disrespecting patients and you and i the taxpayer.

If her staff dont do what they are supposed to do they leave the patients down - I saw this with a relative of mine in hospital and people like your friend are dangerous in the extreme IMHO.

If it was your Mum Or Dad you wouldnt be quite so relaxed.

I'm not actually relaxed about it at all and I certainly don't condone it but unfortunately I do know how the service works. Quick example from where I work.

Have been having considerable difficulty getting my secretary to do her job over the past year, I mean the basic tasks that I require her to do so that I can do my job, so patients get seen, waiting list kept respectable etc.

Currently spending 2-3 hours out of my 7 hour day doing her work and tidying up her mess. This is wreaking havoc on the service and waiting list has gone through the roof.

I have discussed this with my manager and she has discussed it with her manager(big big bucks manager), no progress has been made. I ask her to do a simple task, she listens, says she'll do it but acts on nothing.

I wrote her a short list of what absolutely has to be done daily, no improvement. So started ringing her each morning to remind/ask her to do said tasks(with consent of my manager). I was never rude, never raised my voice but I was persistent.

It all came to a head last week, what happened? I was warned by my manager to back off and stop "pestering" said secretaary. She had put in a verbal complain to her manager but didn't want to take it further once I stopped "pestering" her. So what do I do? You're right patients are ultimately suffering but I can't lose this job!

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

I'm not actually relaxed about it and I certainly don't condone it but unfortunately I do know how the service works. Quick example from where I work.

Have been having considerable difficulty getting my secretary to do her job, the basic task that I require her to do so that I can do my job, patients get seen, waiting list kept respectable.

Currently spending 2-3 hours out of my 7 hours day doing her work and tidying up her mess. This is wreaking havoc on the service and waiting list has gone through the roof.

I have discussed this with my manager and she has discussed it with her manager(big big bucks manager), no progress has been made. I ask her to do simple task, she listens, says she'll do it but acts on nothing.

I wrote her a short list of what absolutely has to be done daily, no improvement. So started ringing her each morning to remind/ask her to do said tasks(with consent of my manager). I was never rude, never raised my voice but I was persistent.

It all came to a head last week, what happened? I was warned by my manager to back off and stop "pestering" said secretaary. She had put in a verbal complain to her manager but didn't want to take it further once I stopped "pestering" her. So what do I do? You're right patients are ultimately suffering but I can't lost this job!

Well thats fine and dandy - but you have a professional body and you should speak to your representantive sharpish so that when you do stand up for yourself you have backbone.

You have learned something and should ask your professional body for better.

Good for you for posting it and getting angry as its an insult to your integrity.

Whats sauce for the goose..............

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

Well thats fine and dandy - but you have a professional body and you should speak to your representantive sharpish so that when you do stand up for yourself you have backbone.

You have learned something and should ask your professional body for better.

Good for you for posting it and getting angry as its an insult to your integrity.

Whats sauce for the goose..............

Ok but have been warned by my employer that this has to end here, enough bad press etc, bullying complaints taken very seriously etc! Professional bodies don't want to know you when it comes to this kind of thing and if it did go further union would undoubtedly sort it out but I'd always be marked as difficult when it came to promotion. Things aren't that black and white, idealism is fine in theory but when you're on your own and you have so much to lose it's not easy, just my opinion though!

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

Ok but have been warned by my employer that this has to end here, enough bad press etc, bullying complaints taken very seriously etc! Professional bodies don't want to know you when it comes to this kind of thing and if it did go further union would undoubtedly sort it out but I'd always be marked as difficult when it came to promotion. Things aren't that black and white, idealism is fine in theory but when you're on your own and you have so much to lose it's not easy, just my opinion though!

make sure to meet with your professional body representative and dont be bullied into not to IMHO.

sam34

Caoimhín wrote: »

First of all that doesnt include overtime

it amuses me the way people say "look at what the junior doctors earn in overtime", without giving any thought to the fact that to earn that overtime one has to work above and beyond a regular working week, work shifts that can be anything from 32 to 57 hours on the trot (with no guaranteed breaks, thats right, no scheduled break, no guarantee of a meal break), seriously anti-social hours, with consequences for their own personal lives and relationships, as well as potential consequences for patients (truckers, pilots etc wouldnt be alowed work those shifts, yet doctors are doing so constantly.)

there seems to be a perception that while rakeing in teh extra cash the docs are relaxing in jacuzzis sipping champagne :rolleyes:

CDfm

That is true that junior doctors are exempted from most employment legislation and are largely unrepresented by management or their representative body.

THe cleaners & their reps have more of a say in running hospital and more rights than junior doctors.

Such are the health service priorities so maybe you should try joining the cleaners union for representation if you want rights.

BTW I would like to see junior doctors get militant as I imagine they are the only sector within the HSE that can actually see the malaise for what it is. You really underestimate your collective position.

AmcD

Just a quick point about overtime- it isn't some cushy optional bonus. It is compulsory. When the HSE recently tried to cut the rates, that pissed off a lot of doctors as they still have to put in the hours- whatever rates the HSE pay.

I work in the frontline of the HSE- as a GP looking after mostly GMS patients. The media would have you believe that the whole health service is one entire apocalypse/armageddon/Black hole of Calcutta type scenario. But you have to remember that the media don't see the news value in happy health service stories. Lots of my patients comment about good care or services that they have received- I tell them to broadcast the good new stories. There are plenty of good things happening and pockets of great efficiency. The problem is that a lot of services depend on where you are.
Some examples:
Working in Dublin 7- excellent access to local psychology/counselling service.
Working in Dublin 15- access to local psychology services limited to exactly which estates people live on. No other alternatives except private services. But then again in Dublin 15, Connolly hospital usually gives appointments on the same day if you ring for an emergency xray appointment or scan to rule out a DVT/leg clot.
The only unified service between hospitals seems to be the breast clinic- one single form, good access to clinics.

Capt'n Midnight

FlutterinBantam wrote:

By the way the ratio of staff to mgmnt in the HSE is 14%

Hospitals run 24/7
so you would need 4 people to cover each shift, this means that during the day the ratio of staff to mngt is mre like 1:2

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

The HSE is run by accountants, not doctors, like it should be.

b28

HSE are about 100 years behind Health Canada!
Maybe an exaggeration, but my view!

jimmycrackcorm

Terry wrote: »

I smoke 40 a day. I drink 10-12 cans a night.
I eat fatty foods and I don't exercise.
I'm 20 stone.

Would you like to see me in charge of the HSE?.

Sounds like you're perfect for an inactive occupation - like moderating

CDfm

Briella Nutty Backward wrote: »

The HSE is run by accountants, not doctors, like it should be.

Thats a myth.The HSE has no balls to take on highly unionised staff.

The HSE inherited a labyrinth from the Heath Boards a highly unionised and politicised workforce where sectoral interests and political muscle count before patient care.

Youve read here where a doctor is spending 2-3 hours which should be spent doctoring having to do their secretaries job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chocgirl
I'm not actually relaxed about it and I certainly don't condone it but unfortunately I do know how the service works. Quick example from where I work.

Have been having considerable difficulty getting my secretary to do her job, the basic task that I require her to do so that I can do my job, patients get seen, waiting list kept respectable.

Currently spending 2-3 hours out of my 7 hours day doing her work and tidying up her mess. This is wreaking havoc on the service and waiting list has gone through the roof.

Can we have our doctors doctoring.

I love the way the banks debt is being transfered over to A Toxic Bank to manage Toxic Debt - we should have the HSE split in 2 - and the stuff that doesnt work transfered over to a Toxic HSE.

You need to be quite mercenary about it.

stepbar

I can only go on my own experience here.

I attend the Mater hospital for the skin condition I have. Sometimes I have to go to the out patients unit. From what I can see Dermatology has two sec's dealing with esentially the same patients (seeking pratically the same services from two different buildings). I think a lot of it has to do with the location of certain services. I could argue that one sec could easily manage the output from both buildings. How in ever such inefficencies are the result of bloated fat from the 20+ odd years of waste and inward thinking from the part of managment and unions. Nothing will change unless we have a clear out of practices / beliefs.

amacachi

b28 wrote: »

HSE are about 100 years behind Health Canada!
Maybe an exaggeration, but my view!

Only about 20 years til they can start prescribing penicillin so.

Caoimhín

sam34 wrote: »

it amuses me the way people say "look at what the junior doctors earn in overtime", without giving any thought to the fact that to earn that overtime one has to work above and beyond a regular working week, work shifts that can be anything from 32 to 57 hours on the trot (with no guaranteed breaks, thats right, no scheduled break, no guarantee of a meal break), seriously anti-social hours, with consequences for their own personal lives and relationships, as well as potential consequences for patients (truckers, pilots etc wouldnt be alowed work those shifts, yet doctors are doing so constantly.)

there seems to be a perception that while rakeing in teh extra cash the docs are relaxing in jacuzzis sipping champagne :rolleyes:

Did you read my post or did you just see the word "overtime" and take off into a rant?
Do you mean that a doctor actually has to WORK while they are on overtime payment, who would have thunk it??

The poor lambs, what sort of monsters make them do that?

thelordofcheese

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Incorrect my friend,you fail because you believe health per se has a worth.

Service has a worth , my friend,and service costs reflect the ability of the customer to pay.
Would a state of the art hospital flourish in Haiti?

Would the locals be able to pay the staff like those in Ireland are paid.

No ,my friend, they would not.

My friend, your amateurish rebuttals of my arguments are to say the least puerile and contrived.

I'll spell it out.

Ireland Inc. can only afford a certain level of healthcare.

If the service providers are greedy and consumed with selfish aggrandisment then the consumer will tell them to get a fookin' bit of cop on before the whole scenario collapses.

Everybody knows this, all that is lacking is someone with the balls and chutzpah to tell these cnunts to get real.

Brian... Ola... Hello there......

Ohh wait, this is some contrived free market health care shit.
Sorry, i thought you had a serious point, i'll let you get on with your innane prattle.

sam34

Caoimhín wrote: »

Did you read my post or did you just see the word "overtime" and take off into a rant?
Do you mean that a doctor actually has to WORK while they are on overtime payment, who would have thunk it??

The poor lambs, what sort of monsters make them do that?

i have no problem with hard work, thats not the issue.

my point is that whenever there is a discussion about junior doctors and their salaries, people immediately jump on the overtime bandwagon, with little or no thought to what the implications of that overtime on the worker are.

also, most people that do think about it, dont realise the conditions under which junior doctors work, overtime for them is not one extra 12 hour shift per week, and it is not optional.

Joey the lips

Terry wrote: »

I smoke 40 a day. I drink 10-12 cans a night.
I eat fatty foods and I don't exercise.
I'm 20 stone.

Would you like to see me in charge of the HSE?

Mary Harney is fat as **** and that's not healthy.
She's also incompetent.

Do you know I am generally not a bad person but i always think it seems counter productive to have an image of poor health person in charge of health....

Mr.Lizard

Joey the lips wrote: »

Do you know I am generally not a bad person but i always think it seems counter productive to have an image of poor health person in charge of health....

But on the other hand are you happy enough to see a baboon in charge of a banana republic?

Joey the lips

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

But on the other hand are you happy enough to see a baboon in charge of a banana republic?

No, did I say that??? Pics please, no proof!

FlutterinBantam

AmcD wrote: »

Just a quick point about overtime- it isn't some cushy optional bonus. It is compulsory. When the HSE recently tried to cut the rates, that pissed off a lot of doctors as they still have to put in the hours- whatever rates the HSE pay.

I work in the frontline of the HSE- as a GP looking after mostly GMS patients. The media would have you believe that the whole health service is one entire apocalypse/armageddon/Black hole of Calcutta type scenario. But you have to remember that the media don't see the news value in happy health service stories. Lots of my patients comment about good care or services that they have received- I tell them to broadcast the good new stories. There are plenty of good things happening and pockets of great efficiency. The problem is that a lot of services depend on where you are.
Some examples:
Working in Dublin 7- excellent access to local psychology/counselling service.
Working in Dublin 15- access to local psychology services limited to exactly which estates people live on. No other alternatives except private services. But then again in Dublin 15, Connolly hospital usually gives appointments on the same day if you ring for an emergency xray appointment or scan to rule out a DVT/leg clot.
The only unified service between hospitals seems to be the breast clinic- one single form, good access to clinics.

Agree with all that and well done.

Only one problem, it costs too much for this country.