Dealing with canvassers

Liam Byrne

How are you going to deal with canvassers that arrive on your doorstep ?

Obviously, it'll depend on what party they're from, and there are some people who would say that - in cases where the candidate isn't there themselves - that they're only volunteers and shouldn't be abused just because of the ****e party or leaders that they're representing, but the bottom line is that if you're actively supporting idiots then you deserve abuse.

However the other evening some Fianna Failures interrupted me in the middle of something, and I ignored everything that I'd planned to do (quiz them about the ****e that they've landed us in, state my point of view and how they'd shafted me on so many levels and ignored my beliefs and viewpoints) and the scenario went as follows:

[Doorbell]
Me [opening door]: "Hello ?"
Them [holding out leaflet]: "Hi we're...."
Me [taking leaflet and seeing logo] : "Fianna Fail ? Not a hope in hell"

I hand back leaflet and close door before they turn away.....

Since these guys are still supporting incompetence, is there any chance that they'll twig WHY they got that response ? i.e. has my point been made without wasting any more of my time ?

dlofnep

Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?

Even with parties that I wholly disagree with - I will always be courteous, and politely tell them that I'm not interested.

I've canvassed - and thankfully, I don't often meet your kind. It's not nice having to walk the streets in the cold and rain, only to have someone like you shout at them. If you're not interested, just say so - we will move on. But don't be an áss about it.

Canvassing is an important part of elections. Anytime we've heard of an issue at the door, we write it down on a notepad - pass it onto the local councillor and make sure he has a look at it.

Grudaire

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Since these guys are still supporting incompetence, is there any chance that they'll twig WHY they got that response ? i.e. has my point been made without wasting any more of my time ?

Actually you would appear like a prick who doesn't know what he's talking about to the canvassers.

Who could take you seriously if thats how you behave - lets be honest. If you want to be smart about it at least be civil. The fact that you slammed the door in their face is a bit much. Perhaps take the time to hand them a short sheet with what you think they've done wrong.

The fact that you are posting here probably means you have opinions on a wide range of issues - none of which the canvassers will hear. Some parties are particularly good with bottom up leadership (Well - not FF), like the Greens, and smaller parties, and particularly when you actually meet a minister. Voicing your opinion might actually get something done.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?

Yup, and she also taught me ethics and respect, and not to jump to incorrect conclusions or misrepresent.

dlofnep wrote: »

.....and thankfully, I don't often meet your kind. It's not nice having to walk the streets in the cold and rain, only to have someone like you shout at them.

Excuse me ? Can you show me why you assumed that I shouted ? Did you see capitals ? Did you see an exclamation mark ?

No. So cut the prejudice and crap and the attempts to make me seem bad, please; your post is unbelieveably presumptuous and insulting, with snide comments about "your kind"; what "kind" would that be, exactly ? What is "someone like [me]" ?

dlofnep wrote: »

If you're not interested, just say so - we will move on. But don't be an áss about it.

That's PRECISELY what I did, if you read my post. I wasn't "an ass about it", I calmly and politely told them "not a hope in hell" and closed the door as soon as I copped who they were from.

So basically, I did EXACTLY what you said you'd like me to do; and given this fact, I'd like an apology - of even an edit - for your jumping to conclusions and trying to make me look bad.

I'll discuss this topic with you (engage and let them know why you're discounting them as an option vs simply saying "no, not a hope") but only if you quit misrepresenting and insulting me....

For the moment I'll assume that that was solely down to a your misinterpretation, but the next time will be reported.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote:

but the bottom line is that if you're actively supporting idiots then you deserve abuse.

That's all the validation I need. Report away.

And no, you're not getting an apology.

Liam Byrne

Cliste wrote: »

If you want to be smart about it at least be civil. The fact that you slammed the door in their face is a bit much.

Again, where did I say that I "slammed" the door ?

Cliste wrote: »

Perhaps take the time to hand them a short sheet with what you think they've done wrong.

The fact that you are posting here probably means you have opinions on a wide range of issues - none of which the canvassers will hear.

That is my point / question. I was 100% civil and calm, while indicating my disgust by being slightly abrupt and giving them zero time.

And the reason for the thread is to ask the question is there any point in engaging these people, or is it better to simply show that there isn't a hope in hell given how FF have behaved.

And since NOTHING they have done for 5 years or nothing could say would convince me that they would take the issues on boards, is it best to just say - like I did - "nope, no way" and get them to move on ?

Cliste wrote: »

Some parties are particularly good with bottom up leadership (Well - not FF), like the Greens, and smaller parties, and particularly when you actually meet a minister. Voicing your opinion might actually get something done.

You've said it yourself there; if it were any other party, I would probably have voiced an opinion; I had a doorstep chat with the FG rep about 2 weeks ago (significantly it was the candidate himself) so I have no problem with that whatsoever.

So lets clarify the point / question of the thread : if you know you'll be ignored, do you still voice your issues or just say "no" and get rid of them ?

And if you've said "no way", without engaging them, will that get through to the gob****es that have ruined the country as an indication of your contempt for their actions, or will they just ignore that too ?

JonathanAnon

It's easy to blame the FF candidates for the sins of their leaders. I'm sure they have heard the usual clichés: "ye bailed out the banks", "ye bailed out your developer friends", "ye ruined the economy". etc etc

At the end of the day shutting the door on them is not going to fix the economy. Bertie and his finance ministers have already fcked that up by mismanagement. So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him. Might feel good but serves no purpose really.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

That's all the validation I need. Report away.

And no, you're not getting an apology.

VERY selective and out-of-context quotation, dlofnep.....any chance you'd include the rest of THE SAME SENTENCE ? i.e.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

there are some people who would say that - in cases where the candidate isn't there themselves - that they're only volunteers and shouldn't be abused just because of the ****e party or leaders that they're representing, but the bottom line is that if you're actively supporting idiots then you deserve abuse

The FACT is that yes, there's a huge part of me that believes that anyone who supports what FF have done deserves abuse and ridicule.

HOWEVER the reason for the thread is that I'm slightly torn by the fact that I DIDN'T give them abuse - for the reason I ACTUALLY ORIGINALLY QUOTED MYSELF - OR waste my time expressing why there wasn't a hope in hell.

dlofnep

Look - I don't agree with your attitude towards canvassers. If you feel there is merit behind abusing them, then go for it. But don't expect a pat on the back for it.

eoin5

I'll get my TV licence inspector stickers ready to stick on their backs when theyre not looking . Seriously though in maynooth there are so many people who come a-knocking for this or that (most mean well in fairness) that we only open the door to people that we know anymore.

I'll get my information from the internet and broadcast media where I can have the time to research properly but as for canvassers yere wasting yere time here.

myk

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How are you going to deal with canvassers that arrive on your doorstep ?

Obviously, it'll depend on what party they're from, and there are some people who would say that - in cases where the candidate isn't there themselves - that they're only volunteers and shouldn't be abused just because of the ****e party or leaders that they're representing, but the bottom line is that if you're actively supporting idiots then you deserve abuse.

However the other evening some Fianna Failures interrupted me in the middle of something, and I ignored everything that I'd planned to do (quiz them about the ****e that they've landed us in, state my point of view and how they'd shafted me on so many levels and ignored my beliefs and viewpoints) and the scenario went as follows:

[Doorbell]
Me [opening door]: "Hello ?"
Them [holding out leaflet]: "Hi we're...."
Me [taking leaflet and seeing logo] : "Fianna Fail ? Not a hope in hell"

I hand back leaflet and close door before they turn away.....

Since these guys are still supporting incompetence, is there any chance that they'll twig WHY they got that response ? i.e. has my point been made without wasting any more of my time ?

again having canvassed myself, I'd always be polite to canvassers calling on doors. i wouldn't worry about bringing up issues with them, criticising their party/candidate and asking them difficult questions, but I'd always be polite in doing this.

canvassing is part of the democratic process

FF do deserve a lot of blame, imho. but did you vote for them in the last GE? if so, then you have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility yourself!

PCPhoto

Have a list of questions near the door (awkward ones) for any actual candidates to answer/discuss....:D...whoever answers has to ask at least 2 questions (I live with 2 other guys)

.....And when they answer the questions - kindly inform them that all our votes are in our home towns (and not where we live) ...one guy had the cheek to tell me I could have it transferred .... he didnt appreciate my scowl of disapprovement.


if the actual candidate isnt there just take the piece of paper and say thanks.

Liam Byrne

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's easy to blame the FF candidates for the sins of their leaders. I'm sure they have heard the usual clichés: "ye bailed out the banks", "ye bailed out your developer friends", "ye ruined the economy". etc etc

At the end of the day shutting the door on them is not going to fix the economy. Bertie and his finance ministers have already fcked that up by mismanagement. So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him. Might feel good but serves no purpose really.

Finally - an on-topic post about the pros and cons about just shutting the door vs telling them what they've already heard/should know.

And even in that post lies the conundrum......

JonathanAnon wrote: »

At the end of the day shutting the door on them is not going to fix the economy.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

they have heard the usual clichés: "ye bailed out the banks", "ye bailed out your developer friends", "ye ruined the economy". etc etc........So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him

So little point in telling them again ?

And little point in wasting their or my time since being on the FF ticket means that they haven't a hope in hell of getting my vote without switching parties or becoming an independent......being part of the FF party (or canvassing for them) surely implies at least some level of condoning or supporting the party ?

Ironically, I did precisely what dlofnep would prefer, but he misrepresented it.

So again, the question is, by doing that and not wasting anyone's time, will they still get the message ?

Or SHOULD we tell them again and again what they've probably heard a million times ?

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

Look - I don't agree with your attitude towards canvassers. If you feel there is merit behind abusing them, then go for it. But don't expect a pat on the back for it.

Yes, I feel there is some merit in it, but I didn't do it.

I was as calm as I could possibly have been given the annoyance and frustration I feel towards what their party has done, but I didn't abuse them in any shape or form.

And therein lies the frustration at being accused of it; I didn't do it (even though part of me wanted to) so any "pat on the back" would be for keeping my cool and doing what I did.

But will they know why ?

dlofnep

Ask them questions - I always enjoy a good debate at the door, provided it's civil. If I don't know the answer to a question, I'll just direct them to speak to the councillor. We never canvass alone.

But I just don't understand people being downright rude. I can understand if you call someone in the middle of a game or something and they are a bit short with you - but some people have been downright threatening to me.. Thankfully, it was only 2 or 3. Most people are genuinely nice as my councillor has a good reputation in my community.

Liam Byrne

myk wrote: »

FF do deserve a lot of blame, imho. but did you vote for them in the last GE? if so, then you have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility yourself!

Nope.

oldyouth

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's easy to blame the FF candidates for the sins of their leaders. I'm sure they have heard the usual clichés: "ye bailed out the banks", "ye bailed out your developer friends", "ye ruined the economy". etc etc

At the end of the day shutting the door on them is not going to fix the economy. Bertie and his finance ministers have already fcked that up by mismanagement. So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him. Might feel good but serves no purpose really.

I would disagree with that. Members of every party blindly back their leaders no matter what the incompetence is. They are fair game in my book and, like every debate, it should be civil and backed with facts. Unfortunately for all of us, FF have given me far too much ammunition for when they call to me.

fenris

I don't understand why anyone would even entertain a canvasser at their door, the canvasser is not standing for election, their words mean even less than the politicians. My feeling is that if you want my vote then at least have the courtesy to ask for it in person.

If a poliitician cannot be bothered to call to a door when they are trying to get elected, you just know that they will be totally worthless to you if they get into power. Lame excuses about there being too many doors to knock on just shows the cynical lack of organisation that characterises the work ethic of many of our politicians i.e. do as little as possible at the last minute as loudly as possible.

dresden8

JonathanAnon wrote: »

So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him. Might feel good but serves no purpose really.

These are the people who voted with everything the party did. They're the ones who full stood square behind Bertie when he had such fantastic luck on the horses, businessmen were giving him money for no reason at all and when he chose to hide behind women and dead men.

Nope nothing to see here, move along now.

taibhse1966

The best thing you can do for canvassers is not waste their time and let them know as quickly as possible that they are wasting their time, thereby releasing them to pursue a possible vote elsewhere.

A technique used by opposition parties to opponents candidates is to delay them as long as possible on the doorstep thereby preventing them from canvassing as many houses as they would like.

In my opinion you did them a favour by letting them go asap, if you want to fluck them up you keep them talking

dlofnep

fenris wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would even entertain a canvasser at their door, the canvasser is not standing for election, their words mean even less than the politicians. My feeling is that if you want my vote then at least have the courtesy to ask for it in person.

If a poliitician cannot be bothered to call to a door when they are trying to get elected, you just know that they will be totally worthless to you if they get into power. Lame excuses about there being too many doors to knock on just shows the cynical lack of organisation that characterises the work ethic of many of our politicians i.e. do as little as possible at the last minute as loudly as possible.

Canvassers do go out with their local politician. At least I do - It's not feasible for them to knock on every single door, but they are within the area (ie: same street) - so if there is any questions to ask, they can simply just call the councillor/td over.

The purpose of canvassing is to highlight the work of the politician locally, and to get information on any issues/matters arising in the area so that he/she can have a look into them.

YFlyer

When I went around canvassing in the local election in Limerick some christian fuddie spent a whole hour talking to me and ended up telling me that I was going to burn in hell.

dlofnep

That's harsh ^

I guess being shouted at doesn't seem so bad now.

Liam Byrne

taibhse1966 wrote: »

In my opinion you did them a favour by letting them go asap, if you want to fluck them up you keep them talking

I tried that one with PD candidates during the last general election campaign, listing everything that they did that I disagreed with (and that was even before Harney and McDowell implicitly supported Bertie's ever-changing "accounts" of his cash....)

But with FF the list was WAAAAYYY too long, and the anger too much to even attempt to be civil over anything longer than 30 seconds.......hearing one more lame-assed excuse as to why they don't punish incompetence or bail on the party (as distinct from bailing out their friends), or why people who completely f**ked up still have pensions and jobs while people working their asses off don't, would have been too much to handle.....

Ironically, part of me thinks that FF should be kept in power to sort out the mess they created....why should FG and Labour or whoever be lumbered with having to come up with solutions to FF's mess ? The only thing tempering that view is the fact that FF are so incompetent and out-of-touch that their approach involves inept politicians, consultants, bankers and developers defaulting on their responsibilities without being fired / fined / jailed while someone on €25,000 a year gets screwed from every angle......

YFlyer

dlofnep wrote: »

That's harsh ^

I guess being shouted at doesn't seem so bad now.

Well I was running for the Natural Law Party, and to them anything to do with meditation is frown upon by them.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

That's harsh ^

I guess being shouted at doesn't seem so bad now.

And allegedly/misunderstandingly being shouted at seems even less bad

Grudaire

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Again, where did I say that I "slammed" the door ?

I'm very sorry - you politely closed the door in their faces:rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And the reason for the thread is to ask the question is there any point in engaging these people, or is it better to simply show that there isn't a hope in hell given how FF have behaved.

You'll be surprised at how many people will vote for them - perhaps by buttering them up you might have a chance to make them think people who will vote for them don't actually want corruption.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You've said it yourself there; if it were any other party, I would probably have voiced an opinion; I had a doorstep chat with the FG rep about 2 weeks ago (significantly it was the candidate himself) so I have no problem with that whatsoever.

So lets clarify the point / question of the thread : if you know you'll be ignored, do you still voice your issues or just say "no" and get rid of them ?

And if you've said "no way", without engaging them, will that get through to the gob****es that have ruined the country as an indication of your contempt for their actions, or will they just ignore that too ?

They will ignore that as well - people have thick skins, they can get over self righteous people like yourself. Do you actually know you'll be ignored though - I get the feeling that you're not even giving them a chance.

And what makes you sure you concerns will get any further up the FG chain of command? (I realise that it was the candidate that you were talking to - but those fellas would promise you their left foot if you asked for it)

fenris

dlofnep wrote: »

Canvassers do go out with their local politician. At least I do - It's not feasible for them to knock on every single door, but they are within the area (ie: same street).

Of course it is feasible - just start early enough, or maybe even call to some of the doors during the year, not just once in the month before the election. The last minute, fawning "vote for marty he saved the world last week and he is so busy saving it again this week that he can be here" or "vote for mary - her father was a great man" style of canvassing just does not inspire confidence.

dlofnep wrote: »

The purpose of canvassing is to highlight the work of the politician locally, and to get information on any issues/matters arising in the area so that he/she can have a look into them.

If one unknown needs an army of other unknowns to tell me how fantabulous he is then he was never even in the race to begin with.

Liam Byrne

Cliste wrote: »

I'm very sorry - you politely closed the door in their faces:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: I didn't "just" close the door.....I had already made it quite clear to them that they were wasting their time - I could have just closed - or even slammed - the door as soon as I spotted the logo.

Criticise me for my approach all you want, but given what their party has done to us I am definitely entitled to express my displeasure in some way, and I was far more civil than their membership and allegiance entitles them to. Believe me, it crossed my mind that they (maybe just their leaders and former leaders, but they are supporting them so they have to take some of the blame) deserved a LOT worse.....

Cliste wrote: »

You'll be surprised at how many people will vote for them - perhaps by buttering them up you might have a chance to make them think people who will vote for them don't actually want corruption.

Cliste wrote: »

They will ignore that as well - people have thick skins, they can get over self righteous people like yourself. Do you actually know you'll be ignored though - I get the feeling that you're not even giving them a chance.

Since when does "I'm disgusted that you've run the country into the ground and let incompetent and / or corrupt [delete as appropriate] people off with their cushy jobs, pensions, bonuses, profits, etc, while shafting anyone earning less than €100,000 and made Ireland about twice as expensive and uncompetitive as it should be" warrant the term "self-righteous" ? :rolleyes:

As for "not giving them a chance"; they've had a chance for the last 10 years, with enough cash flowing to build a life for everyone, and not only have they not done that (which would be bad enough) but they've turned a blind eye to / condoned / supported and encouraged corruption, fraud and incompetence.

In all fairness, the only doors that should be closing on some of them and their Galway tent buddies are asylum or jail doors, so mine closing on them probably isn't even an irritant...

Cliste wrote: »

And what makes you sure you concerns will get any further up the FG chain of command?

As I said, at least I will discuss ACTUAL issues with FG / Labour / whoever, ones that reflect policy and the type of Ireland you want to see and live in. And if they don't reflect or represent a decent percentage of my views, I won't vote for them; but FF have PROVEN that they don't represent my ethics and standards, or my view of how life should be for the average person, so what's the point in discussing it with them ?

Aside from the lack of fairness, corruption and incompetence, let's look at policies; FF were voted in 10 years with a PROMISE of "zero tolerance" on crime which never materialised......so we know that their promises aren't worth a dry cent either.

Are FG or Labour better, or will they take the types of concerns that SHOULD be in an election campaign into account ? I don't know. But they certainly can't be any worse.

But unfortunately the next election will be less about promises and concerns going up chains of command and more about competency, decency, ethics and fairness.

All I know is that if I were hiring someone for a job, I'd prefer to take a chance on someone who MIGHT be competent and ethical rather than hire someone who had proven that they weren't.

Liam Byrne

fenris wrote: »

Of course it is feasible - just start early enough, or maybe even call to some of the doors during the year, not just once in the month before the election. The last minute, fawning "vote for marty he saved the world last week and he is so busy saving it again this week that he can be here" or "vote for mary - her father was a great man" style of canvassing just does not inspire confidence.

If one unknown needs an army of other unknowns to tell me how fantabulous he is then he was never even in the race to begin with.

+1,000

If a politician had achieved some worthwhile stuff then you'd know it already.....having someone call to the door or seeing his or her photo up a pole wouldn't make the slightest bit of a difference.

Grudaire

Liam Byrne wrote: »

:rolleyes: I didn't "just" close the door.....I had already made it quite clear to them that they were wasting their time - I could have just closed - or even slammed - the door as soon as I spotted the logo.

"Fianna Fail ? Not a hope in hell" - is not exactly a no thanks you. You're aim was to be blunt, even a bit rude - purely to make a point. I'm ok with that.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Criticise me for my approach all you want, but given what their party has done to us I am definitely entitled to express my displeasure in some way, and I was far more civil than their membership and allegiance entitles them to. Believe me, it crossed my mind that they (maybe just their leaders and former leaders, but they are supporting them so they have to take some of the blame) deserved a LOT worse.....

As I said I'm ok with it - but I'm making the point that it'll not get you anywhere. As such I am critising your approach - don't feel the need to get so offended.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Since when does "I'm disgusted that you've run the country into the ground and let incompetent and / or corrupt [delete as appropriate] people off with their cushy jobs, pensions, bonuses, profits, etc, while shafting anyone earning less than €100,000 and made Ireland about twice as expensive and uncompetitive as it should be" warrant the term "self-righteous" ? :rolleyes:

Right well I'm calling you self righteous because you're at the rant stage - By the way I hope you don't expect me to begin defending the FFer's

What I mean by giving them a chance is fully understanding their take on things - even letting them know how you felt about issues. I'm sick to death of everyone suddenly getting up their high horse about the Government since the economy went to hell. Did any of these people become involved before when the time was good?

Instead of closing doors "before they turn away" (i better use your words - they speak volumnes in themselves) and then sitting down and having a little rant online, hows about you get involved - join a party - email politicians. Maybe stand a chance of getting things done.