Dealing with canvassers

population

oldyouth wrote: »

I would disagree with that. Members of every party blindly back their leaders no matter what the incompetence is. They are fair game in my book and, like every debate, it should be civil and backed with facts. Unfortunately for all of us, FF have given me far too much ammunition for when they call to me.

+1

What I find hilarious is that I was getting up to answer the door after the FF canvassers knocked and in the 2 seconds it took for me to get to the door he was actually moving veeeery swiftly out of my garden to the next house where he did the same.

Honestly it was like watching someone doing Knick Knacks:rolleyes:

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yup, and she also taught me ethics and respect, and not to jump to incorrect conclusions or misrepresent.

Obviously not well enough. In 4 years of canvassing only one absolute cow closed the door on me. I only ever canvassed the area once as it wasn't my own constituency, but I could still point out the house.

Talking about misrepresenting the situation: You've already jumped to the conclusion that because a canvasser is affiliated to a FF candidate (as opposed to a supporter of FF) that you're wasting your breath talking to them. Grow up.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's PRECISELY what I did, if you read my post. I wasn't "an ass about it", I calmly and politely told them "not a hope in hell" and closed the door as soon as I copped who they were from.

Saying "not a hope" before even hearing anything other than who they're out with most certainly falls into the category of being an ass. At least rant at us.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So basically, I did EXACTLY what you said you'd like me to do; and given this fact, I'd like an apology - of even an edit - for your jumping to conclusions and trying to make me look bad.

Your attitude on this website as a whole leaves no chance for anyone else to make you look bad, you have that base covered yourself.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And the reason for the thread is to ask the question is there any point in engaging these people, or is it better to simply show that there isn't a hope in hell given how FF have behaved.

This isn't a general election, I just thought I'd make you aware of that. Until people stop treating local elections as such we're never going to have a correctly functioning system of local government.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So lets clarify the point / question of the thread : if you know you'll be ignored, do you still voice your issues or just say "no" and get rid of them ?

How do you know this? You haven't taken the opportunity to find out about the candidate. You haven't asked them any questions and you certainly aren't doing yourself any favours by publicly stating that you couldn't be arsed finding out either.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And if you've said "no way", without engaging them, will that get through to the gob****es that have ruined the country as an indication of your contempt for their actions, or will they just ignore that too ?

No, we just assume you're having a bad day, forget about it and move on. 9 times out of 10 the next house will be more pleasant.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Saying "not a hope" before even hearing anything other than who they're out with most certainly falls into the category of being an ass.

LOL. No it doesn't - it falls into the category of having a brain of my own and realising when a party's internals support incompetency promote greed.

If SF called to the door, I'd tell them "not a hope" too. If you don't agree with a party's ethics or overall stance, individual policies are irrelevant.

If FF call to the door, I'll say "not a hope"; not because I'm "being an ass" but because they've screwed up so badly with zero accountability and are rubbish.

As for your "Obviously not well enough." bull**** - lay off! You have NO IDEA how I was raised, at least it didn't involve shafting people and accepting backhanders and dodgy ethics.

But that's probably typical of the type of ****ty one-liners that they teach you in the Fianna Failure appreciation society - forget the facts and throw in a dig so that all of the brainwashed can have a snide "ha, ha".

Pathetic, really. Whatever about the person that asked the question, at least they didn't fire an insult ..... I could say I was "obviously" raised far better than Haughey, Ahern, Cowen or Lenihan, but I won't....and you know why ? I I know what they think is acceptable, so I could bull**** about how they were raised, blah, blah, but since I don't actually know how they were raised, I wouldn't stoop so low as to insult their parents.....some of us don't stoop as low as ninty9er and his FF chums...

Like I said, I could have stood there abusing those candidates and letting them know exactly what I thought of their crappy party and policies and lack of ethics, but I didn't.

ninty9er wrote: »

Your attitude on this website as a whole leaves no chance for anyone else to make you look bad, you have that base covered yourself.

Yawn! You object to me pointing out when FF make themselves look bad and yet feel compelled to highlight when you think I make myself look bad b]in your opinion[/b ? At least have some consistency, please. :rolleyes: I know that's a step up from the "FF : Debating for Dummies" handbook, but please do......inconsistencies and biased stances like that leave your "look bad" comment reeking of "kettle, pot".....

ninty9er wrote: »

How do you know this? You haven't taken the opportunity to find out about the candidate.

If the candidate hasn't resigned from FF after all their cock-ups and corruption then I know more than enough about them from that alone, thank you very much.

Resign from FF in protest at their cock-ups and then call back - I'll gladly listen to your proposals then.

ninty9er wrote: »

No, we just assume you're having a bad day, forget about it and move on. 9 times out of 10 the next house will be more pleasant.

I'll pop next door and ask them, shall I ?

BTW, if they did "assume" that after a "Fianna Fail ? Not a hope" reply, then it shows just how out of touch the FF party is. I'd actually had a great day!

fenris

Cliste wrote: »

What I mean by giving them a chance is fully understanding their take on things - even letting them know how you felt about issues. I'm sick to death of everyone suddenly getting up their high horse about the Government since the economy went to hell. Did any of these people become involved before when the time was good?

They have had their chance, they screwed it up, where do you think that someone who couldn't do the job when they had everything at their disposal has suddenly gained the competence from to do the job in adverse conditions?

Up to now most citizens have been busy working to generate the squandered opportunity that was the last decade. Nobody really took politics seriously, it was mostly viewed as the ocassionally entertaining bickering of the village idiots, that didn't really impinge on working people. Now the idiots have almost burned down the village, so people are sitting up and looking hard at those who would be our representitives.

Local politics does not really matter as the party tells the members what to do and the man in the street has no influence on the party so people tended to pick the best of a bad lot, now we will expect performance and accountability.

TaxiManMartin

The FF guy in my area is not too bad.
But if he comes to the door it wil be me saying.
"sorry mate, nothing personal and under any other circumstances id probably vote for you. But you have to be sacificed to send a message that your bosses just dont seem to be getting. Im going to fill in the card with the other candidates and you are not getting anything from me."

Time to send a message to FF. Time to give the other guys a go.

Grudaire

fenris wrote: »

They have had their chance, they screwed it up, where do you think that someone who couldn't do the job when they had everything at their disposal has suddenly gained the competence from to do the job in adverse conditions?

Up to now most citizens have been busy working to generate the squandered opportunity that was the last decade. Nobody really took politics seriously, it was mostly viewed as the ocassionally entertaining bickering of the village idiots, that didn't really impinge on working people. Now the idiots have almost burned down the village, so people are sitting up and looking hard at those who would be our representitives.

They have had there chance - in fact this is their third chance in a row. Just because they fcuked up doesn't mean that shutting doors in faces will solve anything. It also won't inform them of your opinion.

"'didn't really impinge on people" - It did impinge on people. They heard about a potential reduction in taxes - and they went straight for it. The Irish people chose these incompetents - something we often forget

Liam Byrne

Cliste wrote: »

It also won't inform them of your opinion.

It'll give them an indication that they've gone WAY beyond any redemption. Like I said, during the last election I engaged the PDs on the doorstep and told them that my dad had been a huge, loyal supporter of them but that they'd gone completely against my views on Aer Lingus, Shannon, inflation and had gone too far on privatisation and stealth taxes to the point where the country was all about money and no longer about quality of life or decent services.

So engaging is OK if there's even a chance that they'll listen, but my view is that FF have gone way too far beyond even hearing facts or criticism.......

All that said, I like TaxiMan's statement....gonna print it out in case any more FF canvassers arrive.

Cliste wrote: »

The Irish people chose these incompetents - something we often forget

True enough - at least close to 50% did, with the Trevor Sargent & the Green's conning enough extras to pull a fast one at the last minute and get into bed (ironically to screw us rather than each other).

But don't tar the other 50% of us with the same brush.....having seen FF & the PDs renege on the promises of the first election, some of us weren't so stupid as to fall for it twice!

And all that was BEFORE the Ahern fiasco and the Galway-Tent-As-Noah's-Ark sequel......

slippy wicket

The trouble with canvassers is that most of them are locals who are either related or have some connection to the local rep. It might be fun to shout and roar at them or set the dog loose but the best thing in my opinion is to batter them with raw logic.

Try and justify the dogs dinner that is being made of every decision that our political masters make.

sub-x

Liam I understand your frustration but I would have to agree with the majority of the posters that much more can be achieved by engaging the canvassers when they come to your door.For me this is an opportunity to voice my concerns and grievances from the comfort of your own front door.


I too had the same problem when it came to people representing FF as like yourself there is just too many issues to cover in such a sort time,which I decided the best way to tackle it was simply by asking said representative that if the good of the community was top of their agenda then they wouldn't be a member of FF to start with.

Grudaire

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But don't tar the other 50% of us with the same brush.....having seen FF & the PDs renege on the promises of the first election, some of us weren't so stupid as to fall for it twice!

But unfortunately we live in a democracy...

mike65

I have adopted a more distanced approach to this matter - a sign.

turgon

mike65 wrote: »

I have adopted a more distanced approach to this matter - a sign.

Really? Is it party specific or just a general display of anti-socialness

Grudaire

mike65 wrote: »

I have adopted a more distanced approach to this matter - a sign.

"Feck off"

mike65

Its polite and in a window that can be seen as soon as party hack/elected representative faces my abode. Saves them and me some bother.

Darragh29

dlofnep wrote: »

Look - I don't agree with your attitude towards canvassers. If you feel there is merit behind abusing them, then go for it. But don't expect a pat on the back for it.

I fully agree with the OP, in fact I'd suggest his feelings are a little too moderate if anything. The FF candidate when he comes to my door won't sleep for a week after I tell him what I think of him and his party and what they have done to this country.

We need to start speaking our minds in this country and start holding people to account.

P. Breathnach

No useful purpose is served by being rude to canvassers. Whatever the party, I thank them for calling, accept their literature, and decline to engage in debate or say how I might vote.

We live in a democracy, and the only effective way for the average citizen to influence events is by deciding who to vote for. I have only once failed to vote in any national poll, and that is because I was out of the country at the time.

ninty9er

slippy wicket wrote: »

Try and justify the dogs dinner that is being made of every decision that our political masters make.

It depends on the decision if I'll defend it or not. I have no issue telling public servants that the pension levy was long overdue or agreeing with people that the public finances are a mess and certain decisions the party agreed with coalition partners were wrong.

We're ordinary people too, paying the same taxes, attending the same colleges and schools, in the same dole queue etc...it's blind oppossition to FF for the sake of it that I don't get.

Also, I'm not sure about anywhere else, but here in Limerick FG have controlled the City for 5 years and I haven't seen too much progress on facilities that weren't proposed pre-2004. A park in my area just opened after being proposed in 1999, if you want to talk about wastage and delays there, you can point the finger at the local govenrment, who happen the be the national opposition, but given the nature of local issues and costs associated people are generally more accepting of cock-ups....that and the fact that much like national politics it doesn't matter who's in power, the civil servants shape decisions.

spank_inferno

Part of me thinks party workers dont deserve to be berated for the failings of their party leaders.

But then I remember that if the grassroots party members really cared about the well being of Ireland they wouldnt be working for such a shower in the first place.

That said I havent had 1 candidate call to my door at all. I wouldnt mind it as I'd like to speak with them, but the candidates in my area dont really seem to care to engage the electorate, and thats across all parties.

CreepingDeath

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How are you going to deal with canvassers that arrive on your doorstep ?

[Doorbell]
Me [opening door]: "Hello ?"
Them [holding out leaflet]: "Hi we're...."
Me [taking leaflet and seeing logo] : "Fianna Fail ? Not a hope in hell"

I hand back leaflet and close door before they turn away.....

+1

They turn up uninvited to your home, no appointment, ringing the doorbell to demand your attention to get their views across.

In England "cold callers" are illegal (telephone and house calls), not sure if that applies to political canvassers also.

Grudaire

CreepingDeath wrote: »

+1

They turn up uninvited to your home, no appointment, ringing the doorbell to demand your attention to get their views across.

In England "cold callers" are illegal (telephone and house calls), not sure if that applies to political canvassers also.

Ah here now - if they weren't showing up you'd be shouting about them not being in touch with the community - even the OP says that he talked to a candidate themselves.

elshambo

dlofnep wrote: »

Didn't your mother ever teach you any manners?

What party do you canvas for?
Id like to know as I could never vote for a party with such obvious sexist ideology

dlofnep wrote: »

Even with parties that I wholly disagree with - I will always be courteous, and politely tell them that I'm not interested.

So you lie to them?
At least the OP is letting them know the where they stand for there numbers

You lie to them to give them false hope
Political Sabotage; in this day and age? shocking stuff!

When I was a kid (in the NorthWest)
Whenever Sinn Fein came to the door and asked for the parents I would put on an English accent while talking to them and shout into the house things like
"OOOOIIII DAD, ITS FOR YOU INIT"
Who? what? etc...
"SOMTHIN TO DO WITH GETTIN THE ENGLISH OUTTA OOIRELND":D

They didnt like me:eek:, but at least they knew where they stood!:D


ps. And yes my Father is one of them dirty English types with an Irish passport:eek:;)

ninty9er

elshambo wrote: »

So you lie to them?
At least the OP is letting them know the where they stand for there numbers

Generally my parents deal with canvassers, because I've already decided which non-FF candidates are getting which preferences. During the general election campaign, the window flag on the car was enough warning for most that they wouldn't be getting a No.1.

When I do talk to canvassers and candidates, I let them know where I stand and tell them that I'll consider them for a preference but that I won't promise anything. Most are happy enough with that.

I know that wasn't aimed at me, but obviously the behavioural connotations intrigue you.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

it's blind oppossition to FF for the sake of it that I don't get.

I wouldn't get that either, but how the hell is it "for the sake of it"....?

Any public opinion of FF is as a direct result of their policies for the last ten years, their implicit condoning of dodgy deals, and the fact that according to them the consequences are all someone else's fault; plus it's perfectly OK to give bonuses and pensions to their buddies who have ensured that none of the rest of us will ever have them!

So cut the "opposition to FF for the sake of it" rubbish - it's a complete red herring in the discussion....my opinion of FF is based on their cock-ups and wastage at a national level which have caused havoc.

ninty9er wrote: »

....that and the fact that much like national politics it doesn't matter who's in power, the civil servants shape decisions.

:eek: So I guess there's no point in you [ or anyone else ] canvassing or voting, then ? No point in paying Cowen & Ahern their salaries and pensions and all the other perks that they give themselves with our money ?

Tell me this - which civil servant signed off on the eVoting machines ? Which civil servant took money from unknown people while he was Minister for Finance ? Which civil servant sold eircom & Aer Lingus without ensuring that our infrastructure would be protected ? Which civil servant hired the Financial Unregulator or gave jobs to people "because they were my friends" [i.e. nepotism] ?

Feck it, if what you're saying is true we should nearly sack the lot and let the civil servants run the country.....at least we'd save a few million....

But thanks for the clarification - we now know that there's even less of a point in our evenings being interrupted by someone at the door, unless it's the civil servant themselves..... :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Cliste wrote: »

Ah here now - if they weren't showing up you'd be shouting about them not being in touch with the community - even the OP says that he talked to a candidate themselves.

I know where you're coming from, but just because they turn up on the doorstep doesn't make them and their party any more "in touch" with reality....

In most cases it's a cynical "you've never seen me before or heard of me ever having done anything, but I want to look like I'm around so that you'll recognise me and hopefully vote for me as a result".

As I said above, if any of them actually achieved anything worthwhile, you'd remember their name.

P.S. To be fair to the local candidate and the fact that it's a local election, he might have gotten a slightly better - VERY slightly better - reception if his literature hadn't had a photo of Willie "I'll do my best to make sure that Aer Lingus stay in Shannon [apart from actually vote in a way to make that happen]" O'Dea on it.....

If it's completely separate - as people have said above - then why have a mug-shot of a national politician on it.....

Sizzler

FF councillors will either have to be extremeley brave or downright stupid if they go door knocking for the local elections this year....or perhaps both!

I dont think their local reputation will count for fook all this time round, the people who think they are a decent will be far outweighed by the number of people who associate them with the ineptitude of their party (FF).

I will be amazed if FF are not decimated in the local elections next month, cue mass panic among the ranks and rightly so. Something has to change.

I dont agree with regular punters who are supporting their party being abused at the door but equally I refer back to my opening paragraph and they should invariably expect the worst.

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No useful purpose is served by being rude to canvassers. Whatever the party, I thank them for calling, accept their literature, and decline to engage in debate or say how I might vote.

We live in a democracy, and the only effective way for the average citizen to influence events is by deciding who to vote for. I have only once failed to vote in any national poll, and that is because I was out of the country at the time.

Hence why we are now in this sh*tty mess. Being nice doesn't always accomplish anything, we need to stop grinning like cheshire cats in this country and when people make an utter b*lls of something, we need to leave them under absolutely no impression whatsoever how we feel about it. We're being taken for mugs, we have a minister in charge of creating employment in this country that is hopelessly incapable and inexperienced in her brief. The ever lenghtening dole queues are a testament to her ineptitude, yet her party colleagues have the neck to come knocking at your door asking for a vote??? I'll be asking the following questions:

(1) What the F*CK is going on in your party, when a TD who has no experience of anything to do with enterprise or job creation, is currently presiding over the worst unemployment figures in the history of the state???

(2) What about the man who appointed her??? What capability could he possibly have when he appoints to her to this position.

I'm not being harsh here, but if you can stay on top of employment, you have a chance to steady the ship so to speak. But when you are seeing businesses needlessly closing down every day and thousands of people losing their jobs every single day, then you have to act and act fast. No sign of action here, no sign of a plan for a action, no sign of people who are ready for action, just more insufferable bullsh*t and talk about a plan and a strategy that clearly does not exist within government.

People seeking election need to be asked serious questions now. If they are part of a party that is standing over this incomprehensible bullsh*t, then they need to be asked what they are doing in this particular party. The time to ask them is this side of them getting their seat, not after you give them a vote. How any person can look at what is happening to this country at the moment and not ask these serious questions and DEMAND a credible answer, is just literally beyond me.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

P.S. To be fair to the local candidate and the fact that it's a local election, he might have gotten a slightly better - VERY slightly better - reception if his literature hadn't had a photo of Willie "I'll do my best to make sure that Aer Lingus stay in Shannon [apart from actually vote in a way to make that happen]" O'Dea on it.....

If it's completely separate - as people have said above - then why have a mug-shot of a national politician on it.....

We did warn him about that, but it's his money at the end of the day.

It doesn't help on the doorstpes and it skews the issues too. But the candidate himself is committed to doing a good job.

I think the MAIN issue is that we need PROPER reform and REAL power at local level...e.g tax levying power and responsibility for services, like busses and schools.

turgon

The only people who need responsibility for buses are private companies. But Im all for greater local level power.

Daithinski

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's easy to blame the FF candidates for the sins of their leaders. I'm sure they have heard the usual clichés: "ye bailed out the banks", "ye bailed out your developer friends", "ye ruined the economy". etc etc

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. It sounds like you are saying that FF candidates have nothing to do with the complete disaster of an economy that we have? It is only the leaders fault?

The FF candidates by, being in FF are pretty much showing their support for the government and this would include all mistakes, cronyism, etc.

If there was a vote of no confidence tomorrow. Every FF TD would back the government. This would show complicity with FF's policies and decisions.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

At the end of the day shutting the door on them is not going to fix the economy. Bertie and his finance ministers have already fcked that up by mismanagement. So I dont really see much point in giving your local FF TD a bolliking over it, was nothing to do with him. Might feel good but serves no purpose really.

Nothing to do with him:rolleyes: ???? Are you a FF candidate???

There is one thing I agree with in your post, that shutting the door on them is not going to fix the problem.

You're right. It won't.

But not voting for the imbeciles in FF will be a good start.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

We did warn him about that, but it's his money at the end of the day.

So let me get this straight; by "we", I presume you mean some part of FF ? So a part of FF warned a local candidate to disassociate himself from a local TD who has done a crap job ?

I don't want to misrepresent you, so is that REALLY what you meant by "we did warn him about that" ?

And if so, can you not see how this extends to the need to disassociate himself from a whole PARTY who has done an even worse job ?

ninty9er wrote: »

I think the MAIN issue is that we need PROPER reform and REAL power at local level...e.g tax levying power and responsibility for services, like busses and schools.

Are you REALLY suggesting even MORE taxes and levies over and above the ones we're already forking out to bail out the Galway Tent Brigade and ensure they have their payoffs and "bonuses" ? :eek:

Let national level sort out the waste first, bringing down the taxes; THEN maybe people will have a few cent to spare.....otherwise you are going to cause mass emigration.......

Of course, that would save FF on a whole range of levels.....people pissed off with them gone, so less votes against them; smaller dole queues, etc......maybe that's the overall plan that the two Briaain-deads have....