Dealing with canvassers

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's wrong with my approach ? And how many FF members - including yourself (since you seem to agree that some at the top are scum and you've already posted that you advise people to distance yourself from them) have gone to the Gardai with what they know ?

And say what exactly?? What do people know. And we didn't advise Joe to distance himself from Willie because of Willie, we advised him to distance himself from Willie for the purposes of being able to run a campaign on the relevant issues, none of which anyone has raised here.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

And say what exactly?? What do people know.

You're the one who said earlier that the courts would be better than the tribunals....you tell me....

And besides, I've already said 2 or 3 times that corruption is only one of 3 problems with FF.

ninty9er wrote: »

...run a campaign on the relevant issues, none of which anyone has raised here.

Relevant issues include the fact that their party has screwed us.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You're the one who said earlier that the courts would be better than the tribunals....you tell me....

I agreed with another person that the courts were a better place to deal with corruption than tribunals. It's up to people who know stuff (and you're making an assumption there's a lot which isn't necessarily the case) to come forward to the Gardaí with those accusations. That said, given what the tribunals have achieved I'm not sure it would be a lot.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

and you're making an assumption there's a lot

Again, 100% incorrect.

There are a good few that we know of.

I've repeated the following a couple of times at this stage, and yet you seem to want to focus ONLY on corruption in order to minimise the number of people being referenced.

There are MANY others "guilty" of incompetence, arrogance, and wanton wastage of OUR money and resources. Then there are those guilty of half-assed privatisation schemes with no guarantees or comeback if the privatised company reneges on stuff, and also massive golden handshakes for Government-appointed "regulators" :rolleyes: and bank heads who didn't do their jobs and without the remotest ounce of accountability.....imagine not doing your job, wasting a fortune and more and then being fired - and still getting the country to pay you a fortune!

Sickening, absolutely; but corrupt ? Maybe, but probably not.....just incompetence of the highest level.

Those idiots - AS WELL AS their corrupt colleagues - should be kicked out the door with no bonuses, pensions or anything remotely like them.....if they're FIRED for incompetence by the party or the electorate, THEY DO NOT DESERVE OUR MONEY.

Politics in Ireland, and in particular in FF = "get in, help give us a majority, and then keep your mouth shut, and we'll maybe promote you and you'll survive just long enough to get a cushy pension".

It's time for a change.

ilkhanid

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Me too, actually........while I wouldn't insult my arse by even using FF's leaflet as toilet paper,.....

Nicely put!:D

the_syco

Open door, take leaflet, close the door Look out window, see who they are, ignore them. Why? Because I see them only when an election is coming up. F**k 90% of them to hell. The other 10% I would have seen in the local paper, doing stuff during the year. ALL YEAR, and not the 3 weeks coming up to election.

Sure, half of the 10% most likely just appear when a job is done, and say that they helped the process, but meh, they make some sort of effort. I don't vote Labour, myself, but a local dude, by the name of Stagg, was Labour, and I voted him as he did stuff during the year.

nkay1985

Daithinski wrote: »

I'm interested in how you came to this conclusion

Yeah, sorry, I realised that this might be a bit unclear when I wrote it!

This particular individual just opened his door, saw a generic canvasser, and said no. My brother had no indicators of a party on him and the man wouldn't have had time to see who the leaflet was for.

Another option is that he knows exactly who he's voting for and doesn't even want their literature (because we could easily have been canvassing for that individual). It's unlikely that he's a relative of a candidate or something like that because we take in the competition's leaflets into our house to see how they look etc.

So that was the conclusion I came to and I'm pretty sure I was right.

Raiser

Canvassers are, generally speaking, sycophantic vermin.

- Just hang a sign up that says "No Canvassers - No exceptions" worked for me last time 'round.

Darragh29

My OH's mother got a call from a Fianna Failure candidate yesterday evening in South Dublin and your man asks her for her vote and she says, "now in all honesty, I won't be voting FF this time because the country is in a mess", and your man says back, "Ohh I don't agree and anyway that's nothing to do with me!!!"

I hope he comes up with a better line to win people over because if that's what he is going to say to people, it won't be long before someone picks up a garden brick and bounces it off his forehead!

The_Conductor

I've printed out copies of my payslip for the end of December 08- the end of March '09 and the first week of May '09- to show canvassers how the government's policies have reduced my take home pay over the last 6 months. I intend to show these to canvassers and ask how their policies will impact on my future take home pay.

Propellerhead

Canvassers are volunteers, mainly members of the political parties but sometimes friends or family members of the pol concerned. All would be supporters of the party they are canvassing for.

I'm a long term member of Fine Gael and I've been canvassing for my local councillor here. At this stage of the game, a week to go, I have only had one person who was rude and was a complete smartarse to me at the door. After having a go at me, he declined a chat with the councillor. That to me isn't someone who wants to engage, it's someone who is basically a wanker who wants to stamp their ego on the small people who most of the time operate behind the scenes.

It's being fascinating. The majority of people that you meet simply take the canvass material from you and say thank you. Those who are engaged in their local community will give you feedback about the performance of the councillor in their estate - all good. Those who engage in their Residents Association or sports club etc often influence others and if your candidate has a credible track record meeting the locals then it repays efforts. I've had only three people so far who told me to my face that they were Fianna Fail- tho in fairness most FFers when faced with a FGer at the last General Election took an air of superiority and tried to stick me at the door quizzing me about the arcana of party policy. One man that I encountered launched a rascist tirade at me about "furreners" and then wondered why the councillor hadn't returned his calls. No surprise then, being a pr1ck to anyone doesn't gain favours in return. The best way to tell if someone is a messer or not is to ask them if they want to meet the candidate to discuss their issue in detail. If they don't they are messers and you can make your excuses and go because they are wasting your time deliberately.

I always canvass in my own town, say who I am and if asked tell them where I live and truthfully talk about the local issues that concern me. Very few canvassers can or should be able to answer chapter and verse about the obscurer bits of any manifesto or be held accountable for any perceived slight or problem. We are extremely close to the candidates and everything gets fed back to them.

For those who pontificate about canvassers and the uselessness of them etc bear in mind that local politics is all about who does what. Any aspiring local politician who thinks that they could do nothing for five years and get elected is on a hiding to nothing.

Borstal Boy

Personally, I love elections, because it gives me an opportunity to engage the canvassers or candidates on my own doorstep. I don't care what party they come from. The fact that they bothered to make the effort is enough for me to show them some appreciation.

There are always a few clowns like yourself, lacking in basic manners and courtesy, who see the negativity in the current climate as an opportunity to drop all pretence of civility, and abuse those who may have an opinion different to your own.

All canvassers, from all parties deserve our respect. The vast majority of them are giving up their time because they believe that they can make a difference in our society.

They deserve utmost respect, not mindless, degrading abuse.

The_Conductor

Propellerhead- the reason you have had such a reasonable experience on this occasion- is because you are not canvassing for one of the government parties. Perhaps that one individual with a bee in his bonnet about cycle lanes was an idiot- but were you to spend an hour with an FF canvasser- you'd be shell shocked.

I have made up a little info pack featuring how the government's actions over the past 2 years have impacted on our household- along with details of any actions I took to try to mitigate these (which does include in one instance a literature research on the implications of carbon based annual taxation on the second hand resale market of cars- which I did voluntarily).

People are angry and do feel betrayed. At the moment FG are the principle beneficiaries of this anger. If this is not directed into meaningful policies that matter in people's everyday lives- this fickle support for FG will move elsewhere (notably to the fringes- as it is already doing- do you really think Sinn Fein has a 10% or higher core support level nationwide?)

FG have a golden opportunity to make a difference here- if Enda Kenny would ever stop grand standing and posturing for the media. My own opinion is that he is going to bollox it up- but hopefully I'm wrong.

fenris

One of the local green candidates tried to argue that his bumf wasn't junk mail when he posted it into my letter box that happens to have a large "no junk mail" sticker and seemed quite miffed that I didn't want to discuss why I would not be voting for anybody that wanted me to pay to clean up their mess - both paper and financial.

As for any sitting candidate seeking re-election, if I only see them or hear their name for the first time in the mouth before a election, I am pretty safe in my belief that that they are useless to me and my community.

TaxiManMartin

fenris wrote: »

As for any sitting candidate seeking re-election, if I only see them or hear their name for the first time in the mouth before a election, I am pretty safe in my belief that that they are useless to me and my community.

Thats the truth.

thebman

ninty9er wrote: »

I don't ever recall Bertie telling anyone to "fvck off and commit suicide"... I remember a comment about people being so depressing that he didn't know how they didn't commit suicide.

Lol not a whole lot of difference.

Suicide is not a taboo issue, but that comment wasn't in the best taste, so take your twisted quotes elsewhere. He may or may not have had corrupt financial dealings and is a major contributing person in the current financial mess, but he never told anyone to commit suicide.

Can't believe you are defending that.

Would you as an ordinary worker go to the managing director of your company and tell him he's a corrupt godd for nothing prick? I think 999 people out of a thousand would keep their mouth shut and get on with the important business of keeping the company going for the future good.

If that's not satisfactory to you, there's nothing more I can say. It's the closest to plain English I can put it.

I don't think you can complain about people associating you with the people you associate with though just because change would be difficult.

If I went door to door promoting the mafia but was not a member of the mafia, I wouldn't find it strange that people might think I'm a member of the mafia or that they might think I have close links with the mafia. IF FF is not a largely corrupt party then it has let its name be dragged through the mud by those who are within its ranks and corrupt and why would FF do that if most of the people in it were not corrupt?

Sorry it doesn't make any sense. You can say that you don't go against your manager but you can leave the organisation and so can all the other decent people and form your own party without those people. You can say you won't have the name but what is the FF name worth now, it has been dragged through the mud and means scum to a lot of people as you have stated yourself.

The fact is that most people in the party seem perfectly happy to still be associated with these people and the work with them which is why FF will always be associated with them.

RLJ

Joey the lips wrote: »

The most sensable thing to do would be write down points that concern you and hand them a copy. Some of the answers below are very humourous and a little daft. This is your chance you will be complaining for the next 2 years you never heard from them. All the big corruption issues are about the economy as a whole. Do you really care? If you do you know who your voting for so this thread is pointless!

I get loads done this way and as sec for a residents association we have done very well out of this approch

Do you really care how corrupt FF are ao the fact that enda kenny is a muppet when the hole in your road that destroyerd 2 alloys has been repaired.

Try this approch for a change rather than give out and doing nothing.
It gets results!

you could probably get the same results by going straight to the council with your res ass concerns

ninty9er

Borstal Boy wrote: »

Personally, I love elections, because it gives me an opportunity to engage the canvassers or candidates on my own doorstep. I don't care what party they come from. The fact that they bothered to make the effort is enough for me to show them some appreciation.

There are always a few clowns like yourself, lacking in basic manners and courtesy, who see the negativity in the current climate as an opportunity to drop all pretence of civility, and abuse those who may have an opinion different to your own.

All canvassers, from all parties deserve our respect. The vast majority of them are giving up their time because they believe that they can make a difference in our society.

They deserve utmost respect, not mindless, degrading abuse.

Even the local FG TDs wife managed to engage and be civil on the doorstepwith me this afternoon. I knew it was his house, but EVERY house has to be either leafleted or canvassed, and while I was dropping today, she happened to be there so I spoke with her. She told me her main (national) issue, I personally agreed with her, and we parted being civil, and shook hands. It struck me that nobody else had actually bothered to canvass the house.

Joey the lips

RLJ wrote: »

you could probably get the same results by going straight to the council with your res ass concerns

You would think so but its not the case! You go to the council you sit in a line you lodge your complain and you come back the following week. They have one answer out of 5 then you comeback another week maybe 2 answers and a couple of tuts. You explain that if it was done the way you asked you would not be back. You comeback 3 rd week and more tuts.

Where as when you hand the politician your points you ask him when the meeting is on. You sit in the public gallery and if your not happy you ask for a copy of the minutes with how your section was delt with. Photo copy it and distribute it to your residents! Problem solved politician gets no votes! 1-2 weeks max and only politician tuts!

Liam Byrne

OK, following on from the comments that I received here, I decided to engage 2 FF canvassers today.

I told them up front that I doubted I would vote for FF, and that I didn't want to waste their time, but that I'd listen.

I heard about how "things had happened" affecting everyone over the past year that made things bad, but things could be changed.

When I said that things didn't just happen - that some were beyond our control but others were bad policy - he emphasised that it was a local election, and I got the story of a new, young guy who could make a difference.

I said that maybe things could be changed from the ground up, and that maybe that's what was needed, and though the candidate might be the soundest ever, I couldn't understand why someone interested in making a difference would align themselves to FF.

I was told that everyone should align themselves to some party! So I said OK, but they were bound to be judged by their choice, local or not.

He mentioned that local candidates help with things like planning permission (I managed to keep mum about my opinion that they shouldn't have to) and I then said that was some help considering people couldn't afford overpriced houses - again down to FF policy - and couldn't get loans from banks.

He said why does everyone need to buy a house!

I said "everyone has a right to a roof over their head".

I then listed some issues which were both local & national (Dell + Aer Lingus abandoning Shannon, despite the Government owning a voting share).

He tried to talk over me, saying that selling Aer Lingus was the EU's fault; I let him off for a while, and then I repeated my point that the issue wasn't the sale - the issue was that they washed their hands of it and didn't use their shareholders' vote.

Halfway through me talking he turned his back and walked away.

I raised my voice - for the first time in the whole process, I must emphasise - to ask him how come he wouldn't listen to me, considering he'd expected me to listen to him, and he didn't reply.

So now, not only has FF turned its back on people in a political sense, it's doing it in real-life too.

And I wasted my time.

I've tried, but I think I prefer my earlier approach.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK, following on from the comments that I received here, I decided to engage 2 FF canvassers today.

I told them up front that I doubted I would vote for FF, and that I didn't want to waste their time, but that I'd listen.

I heard about how "things had happened" affecting everyone over the past year that made things bad, but things could be changed.

When I said that things didn't just happen - that some were beyond our control but others were bad policy - he emphasised that it was a local election, and I got the story of a new, young guy who could make a difference.

I said that maybe things could be changed from the ground up, and that maybe that's what was needed, and though the candidate might be the soundest ever, I couldn't understand why someone interested in making a difference would align themselves to FF.

I was told that everyone should align themselves to some party! So I said OK, but they were bound to be judged by their choice, local or not.

He mentioned that local candidates help with things like planning permission (I managed to keep mum about my opinion that they shouldn't have to) and I then said that was some help considering people couldn't afford overpriced houses - again down to FF policy - and couldn't get loans from banks.

He said why does everyone need to buy a house!

I said "everyone has a right to a roof over their head".

I then listed some issues which were both local & national (Dell + Aer Lingus abandoning Shannon, despite the Government owning a voting share).

He tried to talk over me, saying that selling Aer Lingus was the EU's fault; I let him off for a while, and then I repeated my point that the issue wasn't the sale - the issue was that they washed their hands of it and didn't use their shareholders' vote.

Halfway through me talking he turned his back and walked away.

I raised my voice - for the first time in the whole process, I must emphasise - to ask him how come he wouldn't listen to me, considering he'd expected me to listen to him, and he didn't reply.

So now, not only has FF turned its back on people in a political sense, it's doing it in real-life too.

And I wasted my time.

I've tried, but I think I prefer my earlier approach.

Out of pure personal interest, what electoral area were you in with a young candidate?

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Out of pure personal interest, what electoral area were you in with a young candidate?

"Personal interest" questions are off-topic.

Plus, that was the canvassers words, so it's a relative term - he could have been 35 and he'd still have been "young"

rubadub

Get rid of your doorbell and problem is solved. I am not joking, I moved into my house 5 years ago and have not had a doorbell, we planned on getting one before we saw all the advantages of it.

I have mentioned this in many threads, some people gave possible disadvantages but there was not one that could be argued against, e.g. if my house is on fire the neighbour will not give a light rap on the door and leave. People I really do want calling to my door will usually ring/arrange in advance, or knock VERY loudly if I am in, or just ring my mobile outside.

Personally any plausible disadvantage is far outweighed by the advantages.

RLJ

Joey the lips wrote: »

You would think so but its not the case!

don't agree. complain to the ombudsman if they do not reply. There is a certain time in which local authorities have to respond.I never needed a td or councillor for anything

turgon

Well fair play to Liam Byrne for actually taking criticism and trying to act friendlier as a result.

The canvasser walking away is pretty bad, he/she probably just felt that you were a lost cause and there was not point in tolerating you.

My attitude to Fianna Failers has been, "I dont respect you party one bit, but I respect the fact that you are still brave enough to come out. I dont want to waste your time any more, have a nice day".

Liam Byrne

turgon wrote: »

.....there was not point in tolerating you.

That's complete contempt for the electorate. The only way of getting additional votes is by listening to the reasons why people don't vote for you, and doing something about those reasons.

Turning his back after I'd tolerated him really endeared his scummy party to me, I can tell you.

Fianna Fail : "We want your vote, but we couldn't be arsed about your opinion and concerns; we want YOU to listen to US - not the other way around; we've completely forgotten that you pay our wages and fat expense accounts"

Well, I will have the last say.......ROLL ON FRIDAY!!!!!

nkay1985

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's complete contempt for the electorate. The only way of getting additional votes is by listening to the reasons why people don't vote for you, and doing something about those reasons.

Turning his back after I'd tolerated him really endeared his scummy party to me, I can tell you.

Fianna Fail : "We want your vote, but we couldn't be arsed about your opinion and concerns; we want YOU to listen to US - not the other way around; we've completely forgotten that you pay our wages and fat expense accounts"

Well, I will have the last say.......ROLL ON FRIDAY!!!!!

But isn't the candidate reading you correctly in thinking that nothing he could have possibly said would ever get you to vote for him? To even get you to give him a low preference?

I've found that you can tell pretty easily if there's not chance of a vote from someone. At that point you're just wasting time that could be spent on your supporters. Now, if someone has misplaced concerns, I'll seek to put them right but if they basically say "I won't be voting to you", I'll thank them for their time and be on my way. It is bad form if he just left while you were in the middle of talking though. It costs nothing to be polite.

Liam Byrne

nkay1985 wrote: »

But isn't the candidate reading you correctly in thinking that nothing he could have possibly said would ever get you to vote for him? To even get you to give him a low preference?

I've found that you can tell pretty easily if there's not chance of a vote from someone. At that point you're just wasting time that could be spent on your supporters.

I had indicated all this up-front. So if he wanted to walk he could have said "OK, so" and walked. But he stayed around in order to try and convince me. His choice.

P.S. It wasn't the candidate himself - it was a canvasser for the candidate who seemed very ingrained into FF and was - based on him staying around after I'd been 100% straight with him - eager to say his piece and discuss things, and try to convince me.

So if he was eager to say his piece, and I gave him some of my time to do so, he should listen to me too ? No ?

After all, how are FF going to cop themselves on (and, as pointed out to me earlier here, how will they know WHY people aren't voting for them) unless we tell them and they listen to us.

nkay1985 wrote: »

It is bad form if he just left while you were in the middle of talking though. It costs nothing to be polite.

Agreed - I was straight and if he'd decided to walk after I'd said "there's very little chance, but if you want to talk, go ahead", then I would accept it as his missed opportunity to clarify things - bad, but I wouldn't think anywhere near as badly of them as I do after that encounter.

And like I said, if they actually listened to criticism, brought it back to their candidate, and they took action based on it, they might actually have a chance of getting the additional votes that they're going to need to save their asses.

But it seems like that's too much work for them, and they'd prefer to preach to the existing hard-core support and those more easily led / duped than listen to actual concerns.

JP Liz

I want everything in writing i need a contract from them

nkay1985

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I had indicated all this up-front. So if he wanted to walk he could have said "OK, so" and walked. But he stayed around in order to try and convince me. His choice.

P.S. It wasn't the candidate himself - it was a canvasser for the candidate who seemed very ingrained into FF and was - based on him staying around after I'd been 100% straight with him - eager to say his piece and discuss things, and try to convince me.

So if he was eager to say his piece, and I gave him some of my time to do so, he should listen to me too ? No ?

After all, how are FF going to cop themselves on (and, as pointed out to me earlier here, how will they know WHY people aren't voting for them) unless we tell them and they listen to us.



Agreed - I was straight and if he'd decided to walk after I'd said "there's very little chance, but if you want to talk, go ahead", then I would accept it as his missed opportunity to clarify things - bad, but I wouldn't think anywhere near as badly of them as I do after that encounter.

And like I said, if they actually listened to criticism, brought it back to their candidate, and they took action based on it, they might actually have a chance of getting the additional votes that they're going to need to save their asses.

But it seems like that's too much work for them, and they'd prefer to preach to the existing hard-core support and those more easily led / duped than listen to actual concerns.

Ah yeah I've no time for them whatsoever. And he should have made his decision to either stay and try to convince you or else leave. Not do half of one and half of the other!

DeirdreD

Hi

Just got a letter here from a potential councillor looking for votes - is that allowed the day before an election? And if not who monitors same?

Dublin1600

I just had FF at the door canvassing. Are they still allowed to canvass so close to an election.

nkay1985

DeirdreD wrote: »

Hi

Just got a letter here from a potential councillor looking for votes - is that allowed the day before an election? And if not who monitors same?

Dublin1600 wrote: »

I just had FF at the door canvassing. Are they still allowed to canvass so close to an election.

Yeah the moratorium only applies to broadcast media.

So they're still allowed to do it but I think most don't bother.

Donagh_mc

I'm courtious and say hello while taking the leaflet. Then it's time to inform them I don't have a vote in this consticuency and that's enough to finish the conversation

Breezer

A FF local election candidate arrived at my door about 15 minutes ago, accompanied by Mary Hanafin. I told him from the outset that I was unlikely to vote FF, but that I'd have a read of the leaflet anyway. He seemed very eager to talk though, so I listened, and deliberately kept the conversation to local issues in order to give him some sort of a fair chance.

After talking about being local and being a good communicator, he brought up the fact that a local street had recently been made one way "overnight," without any communication. I pointed out that I knew it was being made one way months in advance, but didn't dwell on it, and went on to ask what his view was regarding an overall traffic plan for the area (this has been a major issue locally for some time, raised repeatedly by the residents' association). Before he could say anything, Mary Hanafin informed me that "he's not elected yet, but he'll come up with a plan as soon as he gets elected."

I kid you not. Fianna Fáil - elect us, and sure then we'll try sort something out. And I really don't think I could have been fairer to the guy.

RLJ

Breezer wrote: »

, Mary Hanafin informed me that "he's not elected yet, but he'll come up with a plan as soon as he gets elected."

Live horse and you'll get grass

Awayindahils

I've only met one candidate this time, and I was on my way to the Trinity Ball. When asked if I was interested in a chat, I pointed at my dress, mentioned the Trinity Ball and told them that frankly their politics couldn't compete.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I wasn't "an ass about it", I calmly and politely told them "not a hope in hell" and closed the door as soon as I copped who they were from.

In fairnes to D you came accross as being an ass about it.

I was simply going to qoute you and say "ignorance exists in many forms", but D decided to take it a stage further.

So how do I deal with 'em.. I mostly listen, but this time around I'd pretty much made up my mind that my vote wasn't going to an FF or Green candidate, and god forbid I'll never vote FG,

After wrestling with my conscience, then having the courage of my convictions I put the candidates poster (of my choice) in a prominent position on my property and that kept the guys away.

.