Dealing with canvassers

elshambo

MavisDavis wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed FF candidates not actually putting "FF" on their literature? These are people I'm certain are running for FF btw.

Some/quite a few of them did the similar in the last general election

FF was quite small on some posters

ninty9er

I don't ever recall Bertie telling anyone to "fvck off and commit suicide"... I remember a comment about people being so depressing that he didn't know how they didn't commit suicide.

Suicide is not a taboo issue, but that comment wasn't in the best taste, so take your twisted quotes elsewhere. He may or may not have had corrupt financial dealings and is a major contributing person in the current financial mess, but he never told anyone to commit suicide.

Now to address the issue of 80,000 people removing someone, those powers are vested in the Ardchomhairle, members of which have raised concerns in the past. The nature of such a large organisation is that it is top heavy and the higher up, as in any company, you go, the more power you wield.

Would you as an ordinary worker go to the managing director of your company and tell him he's a corrupt godd for nothing prick? I think 999 people out of a thousand would keep their mouth shut and get on with the important business of keeping the company going for the future good.

If that's not satisfactory to you, there's nothing more I can say. It's the closest to plain English I can put it.

elshambo

ninty9er wrote: »

Now to address the issue of 80,000 people removing someone, those powers are vested in the Ardchomhairle, members of which have raised concerns in the past. The nature of such a large organisation is that it is top heavy and the higher up, as in any company, you go, the more power you wield.

You do realize your aggreing with me/others by pointing this out

The power in your party were willing to go along with and cover for the bad element (due to the fact that a number of them were the corrupt ones:eek:)

The "good honest decent members" were willing to stay in a party they knew was corrupt because it was winning

Fail to see how it makes them any better too be honest!

ninty9er wrote: »

If that's not satisfactory to you, there's nothing more I can say. It's the closest to plain English I can put it.

Condescending remarks from/on behalf of political parties
always go down well with the general public!

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Would you as an ordinary worker go to the managing director of your company and tell him he's a corrupt godd for nothing prick?

If - as a result of his actions - the company was making life absolute hell for ordinary people ?

Let's try and get a reasonably parallel example : if the company was screwing with ordinary people's pensions while paying themselves massive bonuses ?

I'd either leave the company to work someplace ethical or go to the guards to tell them what I know and have him investigated / arrested.

So now that you know that - what was your point again ?

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If - as a result of his actions - the company was making life absolute hell for ordinary people ?

Let's try and get a reasonably parallel example : if the company was screwing with ordinary people's pensions while paying themselves massive bonuses ?

I'd either leave the company to work someplace ethical or - if I had any facts - go to the guards and have him arrested.

So now that you know that - what was your point again ?

So you wouldn't try to remove him yourself. That's my point answered.

ilkhanid

"It's easy to blame the FF candidates for the sins of their leaders."

Indeed, and I sometimes I like the easy option. Since Cowen, Lenihan Bertie etc.are not available to get a piece of my mind these will have to do.
Anyway, these candidates may not have had anything to do with these blunders and incompetent acts, but they will still stand there and try and explain them away, waffling for the party:
" No it was the international situation and the banks, we had nothing to do with it.....the best advice was that the voting machines were a good idea.....decentralisation would have provided jobs......you have to understand....let me make it clear....I'm glad you asked that.....waffle, waffle, WAFFLE!

Daithinski

nkay1985 wrote: »

My brother had one person open the door, say "No thanks", then close the door again.

It was a bit abrupt but I left thinking "That's grand, he's obviously got no interest so the leaflet would be wasted on him, and he's not going to vote for anybody else either."

I'm interested in how you came to this conclusion

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

So you wouldn't try to remove him yourself. That's my point answered.

Excuse me ? You claim an aversion to twisting words, and then you come out with that bull**** ?

Your point is as "answered" as the question about where Bertie got the cash! :P

Given that an MD is not elected by a company, how exactly would you propose that I "remove him myself" ?

What's wrong with my approach ? And how many FF members - including yourself (since you seem to agree that some at the top are scum and you've already posted that you advise people to distance yourself from them) have gone to the Gardai with what they know ?

Nice attempt to cast doubt over my approach, but readers here would need to be two-year-olds to fall for it...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Daithinski

MavisDavis wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed FF candidates not actually putting "FF" on their literature? These are people I'm certain are running for FF btw.

Like the muppet brother of the muppet Ryan Tubridy.

You would need a microscope to find the reference to him being a FF candidate on his snazzy website.

Liam Byrne

Daithinski wrote: »

I'm interested in how you came to this conclusion

Me too, actually........while I wouldn't insult my arse by even using FF's leaflet as toilet paper, I've already talked to another candidate and have his leaflet here, and he'll probably get one of my votes.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's wrong with my approach ? And how many FF members - including yourself (since you seem to agree that some at the top are scum and you've already posted that you advise people to distance yourself from them) have gone to the Gardai with what they know ?

And say what exactly?? What do people know. And we didn't advise Joe to distance himself from Willie because of Willie, we advised him to distance himself from Willie for the purposes of being able to run a campaign on the relevant issues, none of which anyone has raised here.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

And say what exactly?? What do people know.

You're the one who said earlier that the courts would be better than the tribunals....you tell me....

And besides, I've already said 2 or 3 times that corruption is only one of 3 problems with FF.

ninty9er wrote: »

...run a campaign on the relevant issues, none of which anyone has raised here.

Relevant issues include the fact that their party has screwed us.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You're the one who said earlier that the courts would be better than the tribunals....you tell me....

I agreed with another person that the courts were a better place to deal with corruption than tribunals. It's up to people who know stuff (and you're making an assumption there's a lot which isn't necessarily the case) to come forward to the Gardaí with those accusations. That said, given what the tribunals have achieved I'm not sure it would be a lot.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

and you're making an assumption there's a lot

Again, 100% incorrect.

There are a good few that we know of.

I've repeated the following a couple of times at this stage, and yet you seem to want to focus ONLY on corruption in order to minimise the number of people being referenced.

There are MANY others "guilty" of incompetence, arrogance, and wanton wastage of OUR money and resources. Then there are those guilty of half-assed privatisation schemes with no guarantees or comeback if the privatised company reneges on stuff, and also massive golden handshakes for Government-appointed "regulators" :rolleyes: and bank heads who didn't do their jobs and without the remotest ounce of accountability.....imagine not doing your job, wasting a fortune and more and then being fired - and still getting the country to pay you a fortune!

Sickening, absolutely; but corrupt ? Maybe, but probably not.....just incompetence of the highest level.

Those idiots - AS WELL AS their corrupt colleagues - should be kicked out the door with no bonuses, pensions or anything remotely like them.....if they're FIRED for incompetence by the party or the electorate, THEY DO NOT DESERVE OUR MONEY.

Politics in Ireland, and in particular in FF = "get in, help give us a majority, and then keep your mouth shut, and we'll maybe promote you and you'll survive just long enough to get a cushy pension".

It's time for a change.

ilkhanid

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Me too, actually........while I wouldn't insult my arse by even using FF's leaflet as toilet paper,.....

Nicely put!:D

the_syco

Open door, take leaflet, close the door Look out window, see who they are, ignore them. Why? Because I see them only when an election is coming up. F**k 90% of them to hell. The other 10% I would have seen in the local paper, doing stuff during the year. ALL YEAR, and not the 3 weeks coming up to election.

Sure, half of the 10% most likely just appear when a job is done, and say that they helped the process, but meh, they make some sort of effort. I don't vote Labour, myself, but a local dude, by the name of Stagg, was Labour, and I voted him as he did stuff during the year.

nkay1985

Daithinski wrote: »

I'm interested in how you came to this conclusion

Yeah, sorry, I realised that this might be a bit unclear when I wrote it!

This particular individual just opened his door, saw a generic canvasser, and said no. My brother had no indicators of a party on him and the man wouldn't have had time to see who the leaflet was for.

Another option is that he knows exactly who he's voting for and doesn't even want their literature (because we could easily have been canvassing for that individual). It's unlikely that he's a relative of a candidate or something like that because we take in the competition's leaflets into our house to see how they look etc.

So that was the conclusion I came to and I'm pretty sure I was right.

Raiser

Canvassers are, generally speaking, sycophantic vermin.

- Just hang a sign up that says "No Canvassers - No exceptions" worked for me last time 'round.

Darragh29

My OH's mother got a call from a Fianna Failure candidate yesterday evening in South Dublin and your man asks her for her vote and she says, "now in all honesty, I won't be voting FF this time because the country is in a mess", and your man says back, "Ohh I don't agree and anyway that's nothing to do with me!!!"

I hope he comes up with a better line to win people over because if that's what he is going to say to people, it won't be long before someone picks up a garden brick and bounces it off his forehead!

The_Conductor

I've printed out copies of my payslip for the end of December 08- the end of March '09 and the first week of May '09- to show canvassers how the government's policies have reduced my take home pay over the last 6 months. I intend to show these to canvassers and ask how their policies will impact on my future take home pay.

Propellerhead

Canvassers are volunteers, mainly members of the political parties but sometimes friends or family members of the pol concerned. All would be supporters of the party they are canvassing for.

I'm a long term member of Fine Gael and I've been canvassing for my local councillor here. At this stage of the game, a week to go, I have only had one person who was rude and was a complete smartarse to me at the door. After having a go at me, he declined a chat with the councillor. That to me isn't someone who wants to engage, it's someone who is basically a wanker who wants to stamp their ego on the small people who most of the time operate behind the scenes.

It's being fascinating. The majority of people that you meet simply take the canvass material from you and say thank you. Those who are engaged in their local community will give you feedback about the performance of the councillor in their estate - all good. Those who engage in their Residents Association or sports club etc often influence others and if your candidate has a credible track record meeting the locals then it repays efforts. I've had only three people so far who told me to my face that they were Fianna Fail- tho in fairness most FFers when faced with a FGer at the last General Election took an air of superiority and tried to stick me at the door quizzing me about the arcana of party policy. One man that I encountered launched a rascist tirade at me about "furreners" and then wondered why the councillor hadn't returned his calls. No surprise then, being a pr1ck to anyone doesn't gain favours in return. The best way to tell if someone is a messer or not is to ask them if they want to meet the candidate to discuss their issue in detail. If they don't they are messers and you can make your excuses and go because they are wasting your time deliberately.

I always canvass in my own town, say who I am and if asked tell them where I live and truthfully talk about the local issues that concern me. Very few canvassers can or should be able to answer chapter and verse about the obscurer bits of any manifesto or be held accountable for any perceived slight or problem. We are extremely close to the candidates and everything gets fed back to them.

For those who pontificate about canvassers and the uselessness of them etc bear in mind that local politics is all about who does what. Any aspiring local politician who thinks that they could do nothing for five years and get elected is on a hiding to nothing.

Borstal Boy

Personally, I love elections, because it gives me an opportunity to engage the canvassers or candidates on my own doorstep. I don't care what party they come from. The fact that they bothered to make the effort is enough for me to show them some appreciation.

There are always a few clowns like yourself, lacking in basic manners and courtesy, who see the negativity in the current climate as an opportunity to drop all pretence of civility, and abuse those who may have an opinion different to your own.

All canvassers, from all parties deserve our respect. The vast majority of them are giving up their time because they believe that they can make a difference in our society.

They deserve utmost respect, not mindless, degrading abuse.

The_Conductor

Propellerhead- the reason you have had such a reasonable experience on this occasion- is because you are not canvassing for one of the government parties. Perhaps that one individual with a bee in his bonnet about cycle lanes was an idiot- but were you to spend an hour with an FF canvasser- you'd be shell shocked.

I have made up a little info pack featuring how the government's actions over the past 2 years have impacted on our household- along with details of any actions I took to try to mitigate these (which does include in one instance a literature research on the implications of carbon based annual taxation on the second hand resale market of cars- which I did voluntarily).

People are angry and do feel betrayed. At the moment FG are the principle beneficiaries of this anger. If this is not directed into meaningful policies that matter in people's everyday lives- this fickle support for FG will move elsewhere (notably to the fringes- as it is already doing- do you really think Sinn Fein has a 10% or higher core support level nationwide?)

FG have a golden opportunity to make a difference here- if Enda Kenny would ever stop grand standing and posturing for the media. My own opinion is that he is going to bollox it up- but hopefully I'm wrong.

fenris

One of the local green candidates tried to argue that his bumf wasn't junk mail when he posted it into my letter box that happens to have a large "no junk mail" sticker and seemed quite miffed that I didn't want to discuss why I would not be voting for anybody that wanted me to pay to clean up their mess - both paper and financial.

As for any sitting candidate seeking re-election, if I only see them or hear their name for the first time in the mouth before a election, I am pretty safe in my belief that that they are useless to me and my community.

TaxiManMartin

fenris wrote: »

As for any sitting candidate seeking re-election, if I only see them or hear their name for the first time in the mouth before a election, I am pretty safe in my belief that that they are useless to me and my community.

Thats the truth.

thebman

ninty9er wrote: »

I don't ever recall Bertie telling anyone to "fvck off and commit suicide"... I remember a comment about people being so depressing that he didn't know how they didn't commit suicide.

Lol not a whole lot of difference.

Suicide is not a taboo issue, but that comment wasn't in the best taste, so take your twisted quotes elsewhere. He may or may not have had corrupt financial dealings and is a major contributing person in the current financial mess, but he never told anyone to commit suicide.

Can't believe you are defending that.

Would you as an ordinary worker go to the managing director of your company and tell him he's a corrupt godd for nothing prick? I think 999 people out of a thousand would keep their mouth shut and get on with the important business of keeping the company going for the future good.

If that's not satisfactory to you, there's nothing more I can say. It's the closest to plain English I can put it.

I don't think you can complain about people associating you with the people you associate with though just because change would be difficult.

If I went door to door promoting the mafia but was not a member of the mafia, I wouldn't find it strange that people might think I'm a member of the mafia or that they might think I have close links with the mafia. IF FF is not a largely corrupt party then it has let its name be dragged through the mud by those who are within its ranks and corrupt and why would FF do that if most of the people in it were not corrupt?

Sorry it doesn't make any sense. You can say that you don't go against your manager but you can leave the organisation and so can all the other decent people and form your own party without those people. You can say you won't have the name but what is the FF name worth now, it has been dragged through the mud and means scum to a lot of people as you have stated yourself.

The fact is that most people in the party seem perfectly happy to still be associated with these people and the work with them which is why FF will always be associated with them.

RLJ

Joey the lips wrote: »

The most sensable thing to do would be write down points that concern you and hand them a copy. Some of the answers below are very humourous and a little daft. This is your chance you will be complaining for the next 2 years you never heard from them. All the big corruption issues are about the economy as a whole. Do you really care? If you do you know who your voting for so this thread is pointless!

I get loads done this way and as sec for a residents association we have done very well out of this approch

Do you really care how corrupt FF are ao the fact that enda kenny is a muppet when the hole in your road that destroyerd 2 alloys has been repaired.

Try this approch for a change rather than give out and doing nothing.
It gets results!

you could probably get the same results by going straight to the council with your res ass concerns

ninty9er

Borstal Boy wrote: »

Personally, I love elections, because it gives me an opportunity to engage the canvassers or candidates on my own doorstep. I don't care what party they come from. The fact that they bothered to make the effort is enough for me to show them some appreciation.

There are always a few clowns like yourself, lacking in basic manners and courtesy, who see the negativity in the current climate as an opportunity to drop all pretence of civility, and abuse those who may have an opinion different to your own.

All canvassers, from all parties deserve our respect. The vast majority of them are giving up their time because they believe that they can make a difference in our society.

They deserve utmost respect, not mindless, degrading abuse.

Even the local FG TDs wife managed to engage and be civil on the doorstepwith me this afternoon. I knew it was his house, but EVERY house has to be either leafleted or canvassed, and while I was dropping today, she happened to be there so I spoke with her. She told me her main (national) issue, I personally agreed with her, and we parted being civil, and shook hands. It struck me that nobody else had actually bothered to canvass the house.

Joey the lips

RLJ wrote: »

you could probably get the same results by going straight to the council with your res ass concerns

You would think so but its not the case! You go to the council you sit in a line you lodge your complain and you come back the following week. They have one answer out of 5 then you comeback another week maybe 2 answers and a couple of tuts. You explain that if it was done the way you asked you would not be back. You comeback 3 rd week and more tuts.

Where as when you hand the politician your points you ask him when the meeting is on. You sit in the public gallery and if your not happy you ask for a copy of the minutes with how your section was delt with. Photo copy it and distribute it to your residents! Problem solved politician gets no votes! 1-2 weeks max and only politician tuts!