Can they do that?

memo_to_all

Got off the Luas at Jervis Street this evening and as I was walking down the platform I noticed 2 inspectors speaking to an Asian girl. As I passed I could see that one of the inspectors had taken her passport and was trying explain that they would give it back to her when she paid...obviousley she hadnt paid her fare...but I was wondering if this was legal. It was obvious the girl didnt really understand what was happening...as she looked genuine in her display of not understanding.

I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.
But question remains...can someone from a private company (i.e violia) take it upon themselves to sieze that girls passport?

galwayrush

She would have gotten way worse treatment in many other countries if she didn't pay. If it's true, all she has to do is pay the fare \ fine.

professore

galwayrush wrote: »

She would have gotten way worse treatment in many other countries if she didn't pay. If it's true, all she has to do is pay the fare \ fine.

So that excuses it does it? What a pathetic attitude galwayrush. They should be arrested for harassment.

SV

memo_to_all wrote: »

I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.
But question remains...can someone from a private company (i.e violia) take it upon themselves to sieze that girls passport?

No they can't.
I'd love to see them try the same with someone from Ireland(taking their identification or similar)

Quazzie

You should have paid the fare, gotten the passport off them and then technically you owned that girl.

I'll admit I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure thats how it works.

Tech3

memo_to_all wrote: »

I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.

So you would be one of those typical Irish people.

memo_to_all

I always figured that if you didnt pay a fare and your caught..they take your name, address DOB and try to verify before issueing a fine...but to actually take this girls passport just seemed a little too much.

kelle

If she had done that in London, she would have faced a heavy fine. They obviously seized her passport until she paid her fare, and JUST her fare - probably no penalty charge! Are there signs on the Luas stations explaining what happens on non-payment of fares?
She was lucky. I was once caught in London with an inadequate ticket (I was one station outside the zone listed on the ticket, it was a genuine mistake on my part) and they looked for a hefty penalty charge, I don't know how I did it but I really used my charm and got away with it. It took about an hour though and I nearly missed my flight. If only they had JUST seized my passport and given me time to get that money, I would have got away a lot sooner!

memo_to_all

tech2 wrote: »

So you would be one of those typical Irish people.

Seems that way...i just didnt know if they had the right to do that...so not having my facts straight didnt feel I was in a position to comment or intervene on her behalf.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Absolute bollocks! As an immigrant, she needs her passport to prove she's here legally for one thing, not to mention banking, state appointments and so on. It's a legal document you're required to have in your possession.

Taking her passport is effectively theft - I'd send a complaint to Violia stating what and when you saw - I'm pretty sure it's not in their rulebook and they'd appreciate the heads up.

seanybiker

Quazzie wrote: »

You should have paid the fare, gotten the passport off them and then technically you owned that girl.

I'll admit I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure thats how it works.

Ha ha thats exactly what it is.

galwayrush

professore wrote: »

So that excuses it does it? What a pathetic attitude galwayrush. They should be arrested for harassment.

Don't attack me, i didn't say what they did was right in any way, i only said all she has to do is pay up and get her passport back.It would have been way worse in many other countries. Saw something similar happen in Italy, Police arrested the entire family and apparently fined them , then deported them.

Sharpshooter

I didn't think it was legal for them to do that.
I thought you were not supposed to hand over your passport to anyone, unless it was say Airport security or the police.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Originally Posted by Quazzie wrote:

You should have paid the fare, gotten the passport off them and then technically you owned that girl.

I'll admit I'm no legal eagle but I'm pretty sure thats how it works.

seanybiker wrote: »

Ha ha thats exactly what it is.

No, the OP is not entitled to the girl's passport! I think you have a set date by which you have to pay the fine, it's not pay on the spot. Taking the name and passport number should suffice.

Tar.Aldarion

No, she could have them arrested.

AnonoBoy

I saw that happen. But didn't hang around listening to what was going on.

Missed my chance to buy an Asian girl, damn it.

Mrs JackDaniels

memo_to_all wrote: »

Got off the Luas at Jervis Street this evening and as I was walking down the platform I noticed 2 inspectors speaking to an Asian girl. As I passed I could see that one of the inspectors had taken her passport and was trying explain that they would give it back to her when she paid...obviousley she hadnt paid her fare...but I was wondering if this was legal. It was obvious the girl didnt really understand what was happening...as she looked genuine in her display of not understanding.

I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.
But question remains...can someone from a private company (i.e violia) take it upon themselves to sieze that girls passport?

A passport is government owned and nobody has the right to take it from apart from the gardai. A bouncer took mine one night thats how I know. Sorriest thing the fcuker ever did

Snowie

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I didn't think it was legal for them to do that.
I thought you were not supposed to hand over your passport to anyone, unless it was say Airport security or the police.

I put my passport down on a grandss worth of snowboarding gear :cool:

the list was

Spechil blend, 20k breathable jacket
avalanche transeaver
snowboarding boots with snake skin affect :cool:
snow shovel
Probe
Dekine helepack pro
k2 cinch carbon free ride bindings
Dragon polorised goggels


I just couldnt leave the resort till i payed it all of

Dardania

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Absolute bollocks! As an immigrant, she needs her passport to prove she's here legally for one thing, not to mention banking, state appointments and so on. It's a legal document you're required to have in your possession.

Taking her passport is effectively theft - I'd send a complaint to Violia stating what and when you saw - I'm pretty sure it's not in their rulebook and they'd appreciate the heads up.

Is there a requirement in Ireland to carry your passport at all times?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

memo_to_all wrote: »

Got off the Luas at Jervis Street this evening and as I was walking down the platform I noticed 2 inspectors speaking to an Asian girl. As I passed I could see that one of the inspectors had taken her passport and was trying explain that they would give it back to her when she paid...obviousley she hadnt paid her fare...but I was wondering if this was legal. It was obvious the girl didnt really understand what was happening...as she looked genuine in her display of not understanding.

I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.
But question remains...can someone from a private company (i.e violia) take it upon themselves to sieze that girls passport?

No, they cannot do sh!t, if anything she has the upper hand now. Civil courts would favour her.

Agent Smith

couldnt she hand over passport, Claim it was then stolen, and got a new one from her embassy?

(yes, i guess this would cost more then the fine itself, but work with me here people!)

Notorious

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think you have a set date by which you have to pay the fine, it's not pay on the spot. Taking the name and passport number should suffice.

Yeah they give you a slip of paper with all the info on it.

My sister got stung for not paying on the dart. She was going to pay when she got off as she didn't want to be late for college. So she tells the lad checking tickets in Pearse St. that she didn't have a ticket and could she buy her monthly now. She was handed a fine for either €50 or €100. The Mother rang up explaining that a monthly ticket was going to be bought, and since the jerk on the other end was having none of it, she told them my sister gave a false address. Fine was never paid.

miss no stars

Not having a ticket doesn't mean intent to not buy a ticket. I had a tourist beside me on teh LUAS before, asked me how much the fare to Hueston was when she saw the inspector coming. I told her that was an inspector, not a ticket sales man. Her response was "Well where was I supposed to buy the ticket...?"

The reality is that in a lot of countries, tickets can be purchased while on the transport in question. It's a reasonable mistake for a non native to make.

They absolutely can not take the passport btw. A lot of those inspectors are COMPLETE thugs. Wouldn't surprise me if they were taking it with intent to sell it on :rolleyes:

peanuthead

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I didn't think it was legal for them to do that.

It's technically illegal not to pay your fare too you know.

If the OP had've witnessed the same incident, but the inspectors were letting her off, we would be having the argument that the irish don't care and no wonder our economy is in sh*te.

miss no stars

People are falliable. Maybe she intended to defraud on the ticket fare, maybe it was an honest mistake. Siezing someone's passport without the authority to do so is far, far, far more serious than not paying a fare.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dardania wrote: »

Is there a requirement in Ireland to carry your passport at all times?

Not nessecarily on you, but be in possession of one. Especially if you're a non-national (UK possibly excepted, not sure). If, say, the guards ask to see some picture ID and she doesn't drive, what's she supposed to do?

Raze_them_all

Mrs JackDaniels wrote: »

A passport is government owned and nobody has the right to take it from apart from the gardai. A bouncer took mine one night thats how I know. Sorriest thing the fcuker ever did

Bouncers can keep it and hand it into the guards if you gave your passport to someone else that clearly isn't you but not if it's yours.

but no the people had no right to.

Sharpshooter

peanuthead wrote: »

It's technically illegal not to pay your fare too you know.

If the OP had've witnessed the same incident, but the inspectors were letting her off, we would be having the argument that the irish don't care and no wonder our economy is in sh*te.

I still don't think they were within their rights to take it.

Not paying doesn't mean you are fare evading deliberately.

Dart station beside me often had the ticket office locked and no one around to buy the ticket from.
I used to pay at the other end, but I don't think you can do that now.

maxxie

happened to me in prague, I felt well hard done by as you do!

misserable bastards!

CutzEr

Well, if she had her passport on a bus, she is pretty confused then...

AnonoBoy

miss no stars wrote: »

A lot of those inspectors are COMPLETE thugs. Wouldn't surprise me if they were taking it with intent to sell it on :rolleyes:

Definitely. I heard they often abduct people that don't pay their fares and sell them into slavery in Connemara.

Complete thugs. I see fare-evaders beaten to within an inch of their life on a regular basis on the LUAS. Someone's got to stop these animals.

Locamon

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Definitely. I heard they often abduct people that don't pay their fares and sell them into slavery in Connemara.

Complete thugs. I see fare-evaders beaten to within an inch of their life on a regular basis on the LUAS. Someone's got to stop these animals.

Dead right too sends out a message:D

What do they do if they just catch your average Irish fare evader -take their shoes until they come up with the money? 10/10 for these guys using their initiative even if it appears completely illegal.

AnonoBoy

Locamon wrote: »

Dead right too sends out a message:D

What do they do if they just catch your average Irish fare evader -take their shoes until they come up with the money? 10/10 for these guys using their initiative even if it appears completely illegal.

Sure remember what happened a couple years back in London with that Brazilian lad who didn't pay his fare? Sent out a strong message that did.

What?.... too soon?

giggsy664

What does gardai mean anyway?

Oh, it's Irish for "Not shooting a Brazilian in the back".

Too soon?

Coriolanus

Afaik no one except a Garda can ask to see ID unless it's a voluntary amenity, like walking in to the pub (ie: You can refuse t show it, they can refuse to let you on.)

On the odd ocassion I travel without a ticket on bus or luas etc I just make up a random name and address and refuse to flash ID to confirm. I figure all the times the theiving drivers keep the change on DubBus or the crappy service on Luas, I'm entitled to a few free rides every now and then.

Locamon

Nevore wrote: »

Afaik no one except a Garda can ask to see ID unless it's a voluntary amenity, like walking in to the pub (ie: You can refuse t show it, they can refuse to let you on.)

On the odd ocassion I travel without a ticket on bus or luas etc I just make up a random name and address and refuse to flash ID to confirm. I figure all the times the theiving drivers keep the change on DubBus or the crappy service on Luas, I'm entitled to a few free rides every now and then.

Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!

maxxie

Locamon wrote: »

Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!

cut what back, comfort? speed? The service is ****e regardless..
The route from stephens green is nice isnt it but my god the tallaght route is a nightmare, goes through every ****hole in south dublin. They planned that well!!

AnonoBoy

maxxie wrote: »

cut what back, comfort? speed? The service is ****e regardless..
The route from stephens green is nice isnt it but my god the tallaght route is a nightmare, goes through every ****hole in south dublin. They planned that well!!

Personally I find the LUAS quite good. I can score smack, meth or crack on it any time of the day.

Plus - it's got that 'free social club' vibe going for me, Jonno, Deco, Paulo, Franciso, Christophero, Ignatiuso and Bretto. You can always be sure to meet one of 'yer buds' on there and sure if you're you can always intimidate some poshos for a laugh, like.

Gavin "shels"

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Bouncers can keep it and hand it into the guards if you gave your passport to someone else that clearly isn't you but not if it's yours.

Are you sure? I'm nearly sure that bouncers can't withhold your passport from you but they can connect the guards on the matter, bouncers don't have any extra rights than me or you outside of the premises, which is were most of them do be.



On the matter of the Luas inspector, I wouldn't even stop for them, it's there fault they're weren't on the actualy Luas checking people. I would legally if you have to stop for them on the platform? I doubt it.

Coriolanus

Locamon wrote: »

Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!

The red line has been crappy since the get go. Purely anecdotal but apparently the amount of staff working on the Green line, ticket collectors and security at night etc, far outweighs that of the Red. Courtesy of Joe Duffy natch, despite how much I hate him.

Anyway, eh... you did see their posted profits for 08 right? Don't remember the specific numbers off the top of the head but Veolia are in no way hurting financially on the Luas at least, can't speak for the rest of their holdings.

I avoid the Redline outside of peak hours like a plague. Fortunately to and from work it's so packed that the scobies tend not to be a problem.

Overheal

Where was The Citizen while all of this was taking place??

Dave!

No, they can't. There was a fuss kicked up about this sorta thing recently (relating to bouncers taking passports actually), I believe it's the case that the passport is the property of the Dept of Justice, and no private person or company is allowed to confiscate it. Pretty sure there's a penalty also.

AnonoBoy

Gavin shels wrote: »

On the matter of the Luas inspector, I wouldn't even stop for them, it's there fault they're weren't on the actualy Luas checking people. I would legally if you have to stop for them on the platform? I doubt it.

I think if they see you getting off the LUAS then they can ask you for a ticket, if you don't stop for them and leg it it can be seen as fare-evading.

I think this woman was on the LUAS when they asked her and they stepped off the tram with her to explain the situation.

.Bob

i used to always pay for the luas, but now i have a collection of i'd say over 100 tickets i carry in my bag, so whenever an inspector comes around i very slowly sort through them "looking" for todays ticket, then hop off at the next stop

AnonoBoy

.Bob wrote: »

i used to always pay for the luas, but now i have a collection of i'd say over 100 tickets i carry in my bag, so whenever an inspector comes around i very slowly sort through them "looking" for todays ticket, then hop off at the next stop

Does that actually work?

Gavin "shels"

Dave! wrote: »

No, they can't. There was a fuss kicked up about this sorta thing recently (relating to bouncers taking passports actually), I believe it's the case that the passport is the property of the Dept of Justice, and no private person or company is allowed to confiscate it. Pretty sure there's a penalty also.

That's what I thought alright.

az2wp0sye65487

Something I've often wondered about fare-dodging and 'On-The-Spot' fines etc...

Not that I've ever done the whole fare dodging thing, but if a bus or Luas inspector was to stop me and I didn't have a valid ticket, there's no way they'd be getting any ID or address details from me. You could easily just make up and address; or a simple 'fcuk that, I aint tellin you' and then leggit!

.Bob

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Does that actually work?

^^
yup, well sort of, i did have to get off at the next stop because otherwise id run outta tickets.

when i get asked spend ages fumbling through my bag, then produce my huge hadnfull of tickets, then sloooowly go through one by one. sometimes the inspector gets impatient and tries to take them all off you to find it but just refuse.


hmmm new idea, yknow the way a lot of ticket inspectors are foreign, and the first language of this country is irish... what if you just refuse to talk english to them? :O

"ticket please" >>> "ceard? ni thuigim tu!" :P

IvyTheTerrible

.Bob wrote: »

^^
yup, well sort of, i did have to get off at the next stop because otherwise id run outta tickets.

when i get asked spend ages fumbling through my bag, then produce my huge hadnfull of tickets, then sloooowly go through one by one. sometimes the inspector gets impatient and tries to take them all off you to find it but just refuse.


hmmm new idea, yknow the way a lot of ticket inspectors are foreign, and the first language of this country is irish... what if you just refuse to talk english to them? :O

"ticket please" >>> "ceard? ni thuigim tu!" :P

Sounds like an awful lot of hassle. Would it not be easier just to buy a ticket?

Dave!

David Nutty Softball wrote: »

Something I've often wondered about fare-dodging and 'On-The-Spot' fines etc...

Not that I've ever done the whole fare dodging thing, but if a bus or Luas inspector was to stop me and I didn't have a valid ticket, there's no way they'd be getting any ID or address details from me. You could easily just make up and address; or a simple 'fcuk that, I aint tellin you' and then leggit!

Yeah I'm also wondering about that

Any legal eagles know the situation with that? I don't imagine an inspector is allowed to restrain you, nor do I think they're allowed to refuse to open the door if you say you wanna leave, as they would probably be false imprisonment. I would have thought all they can do is call the Gardai.

Anybody confirm?

bladespin

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

No, she could have them arrested.

Her passport belongs to whatever her home country is technically, taking it without the permission of the minister for foreign affairs would be considered theft (possibly even treason technically) so No.