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George Lee to run for Fine Gael In Dublin South.
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truebluedub wrote: »Anyone spot George Lee and several other FGs standing around waving at traffic earlier. Looking as inspiring as those gormless twats surrounding RTE's journalist David Davin-Power at the FF Ard-dheis.
Is that you Alex?:pac:0 -
Well, just looking at his posters, Shay Brennan should be firmly out of the race...
I'm not normally one to be so caustic of someone's fashion sense but wearing a tie knot that big in that suit makes him look like a little boy wearing his daddy's suit. If he's stupid enough to let that image of him go up on his posters when he's actually trying to step into his father's shoes, he's too stupid to be electable imho.0 -
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Oh dear.
Barely a week as an FG candidate and already changed his opinions twice(I'm presuming based on advice).
Civil Service pay freeze + getting ride of the senate.
Oh Georgey boy, you didn't last long.0 -
Oh dear.
Barely a week as an FG candidate and already changed his opinions twice(I'm presuming based on advice).
Civil Service pay freeze + getting ride of the senate.
Eh not sure if the above is his 'change' of policy that your quoting, seen as im fairly sure thats what he believed even before he joined FG, certainly on the Civil service anyway.
I get the impression all the negative comments are coming from FF supporters, are you worried seen as FG now have someone in their ranks that IS a viable alternative to our current 'leader'?!0 -
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Eh not sure if the above is his 'change' of policy that your quoting, seen as im fairly sure thats what he believed even before he joined FG, certainly on the Civil service anyway.
I get the impression all the negative comments are coming from FF supporters, are you worried seen as FG now have someone in their ranks that IS a viable alternative to our current 'leader'?!
I think what tragedy is getting at is George Lee had taken a position on both issues and FG forced him to backtrack.0 -
Fiancially, geting rid of the Senate isn't really relevant to the economy in the long term.
As for the pay freeze, a lot of civil servants live in George Lee's constituency. Heck, we have so many of them a lot of them live in every constituency. You can't talk openly about pay freezes. But of course it would happen, it has to.0 -
Fiancially, geting rid of the Senate isn't really relevant to the economy in the long term.
As for the pay freeze, a lot of civil servants live in George Lee's constituency. Heck, we have so many of them a lot of them live in every constituency. You can't talk openly about pay freezes. But of course it would happen, it has to.
Did you just accuse FG of misleading the electorate?0 -
Of course Fine Gael isn't saying everything. Do you know how politics works?0
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Better than George Lee 'of the solo runs' seems to or those who don't rate someone who was referred to in the Sunday Independent of July 29, 2007 as the potential future leader of the Labour party as being likely to get a cabinet position. And what Labour spin doctor said this - Eoghan Harris.0
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You know how politics works better than George Lee eh? I'm surprised you weren't asked to run yourself. You seem to think George Lee is some low brow illiterate, mere 'economist'. I have no doubt the electorate disagree with you and that he will be promoted to the Dail whereas Alex White will linger in the Senate, indefinitely. What do you know about politics that the electorate does not?truebluedub wrote: »Better than George Lee 'of the solo runs' seems to
Lol, I don't rate Labour, Eoghan Harris or Alex White!or those who don't rate someone who was referred to in the Sunday Independent of July 29, 2007 as the potential future leader of the Labour party as being likely to get a cabinet position. And what Labour spin doctor said this - Eoghan Harris.0 -
Not sure if anyone heard the two of them on Newstalks breakfast show this morning. Lee sounded very competent and was well able to answer the questions put to him, Shay Brennen on the other hand gave the impression that he was totally out of his depth.
On Alex White as a candidate, he is a very competent fellow but given he has failed to be elected on two previous occasions it seems the people of Dublin South don't want him to represent them. I voted for him on the last two occasions as first preference, but as I have moved to another constituency since then I can't vote this time.
If I could I would definitely be giving first preference to Lee.0 -
You know how politics works better than George Lee eh? I'm surprised you weren't asked to run yourself. You seem to think George Lee is some low brow illiterate, mere 'economist'. I have no doubt the electorate disagree with you and that he will be promoted to the Dail whereas Alex White will linger in the Senate, indefinitely. What do you know about politics that the electorate does not?
Nice to see your debating skills are limited to throwing insults. George Lee has shown demonstrable political naivety, firstly he neglected to inform his employer that he was running for election, which any journalist acting ethically would have done as it could undermine RTE's political neutrality, and since you have consistently misrepresented my words note RTE not George Lee.
Secondly making an issue of his leaving his job - good until you look at the reality he's on leave and retains his job until he is or is not elected which gets him past the inconvenience of having to hand in his notice.
Third let us pretend that I haven't already demonstrated that his policies are empty. Or the clear fact that his party have forced him to back track on two. He is treating these as "HIS" policies neglecting the political reality that politics is about compromise firstly with his party and the leader of his party and if in Government coalition partners. This naivety is clearly evidenced by his solo runs which now amount to two out of twelve of his declared policies.
Fourth how likely is he really to get a portfolio in either a Government or a shadow cabinet. The position he is most qualified for is already occupied by an intelligent and popular individual. The next most likely position belongs to Leo Varadkar who considering that he has become fairly high profile is unlikely to be reshuffled to a lesser portfolio. Is Enda Kenny really going to risk causing internal strife in a party that he has only just rebuilt, for what is essentially appointing a celeb?
And how is getting elected promoted to the Dáil in George Lee's case?0 -
I'm willing to debate this, but you can't just call debate an exchange of insults when it doesn't suit you.truebluedub wrote: »Nice to see your debating skills are limited to throwing insults.George Lee has shown demonstrable political naivety, firstly he neglected to inform his employer that he was running for election
He told them he was running for election. His relationship with his former employer is none of my business no more than is Alex White's relationship with his former employer - RTE.
Was it ever made clear to us, the viewing public, that an RTE Producer was considering running for election representing the Labour Party? No.
Personally, neither Alex White's nor George Lee's employment history with RTE bother me so maybe someone else who it does bother will be better at debating bith situations with you.
Tommy Broughan, Roisin Shorthall and Brendan Howlin are currently (or have been up to recently) only on leave from their jobs as teachers. They are sitting TDs for the Labour party.Secondly making an issue of his leaving his job - good until you look at the reality he's on leave and retains his job until he is or is not elected which gets him past the inconvenience of having to hand in his notice.
They are, meanwhile (unless it has changed very recently) tallying up full pension entitlement as teachers.
Best of all, there is Labour's defence spokesman Brian O Shea. Brian clocked up more payment as a teacher while IN the Dail than any other member.
He earned €49,527 as a teacher - while he was a sitting TD. No other TD managed that amount.
The point is that George Lee is merely a candidate and if he didn't get elected, would have no job. There are TDs in the Dail, including in your party and mine, who are "on leave" from their jobs in the public service and will be drawing on such leave for pensions. This has been backed up by Ruairi Quinn who has publicly supported the situation.
I think your consternation is misdirected somewhat here.
My man you haven't even begun to hit the nail on the head here. Look at the South Dublin constituency - ALL of the FG TDs may well be at the cabinet table - Olivia Mitchell, Alan Shatter and George Lee. How's that going to look? We won't know where to put all of our talented politicians. There is too much talent in this party. You have just named three high profile experts all jockeying for two economic portfolios in Fine Gael. I can't even think of one person in Labour who could challenge them.Fourth how likely is he really to get a portfolio in either a Government or a shadow cabinet. The position he is most qualified for is already occupied by an intelligent and popular individual. The next most likely position is Leo Varadkar who considering that he has become fairly high profile is unlikely to be reshuffled to a lesser portfolio. Is Enda Kenny really going to risk causing internal strife in a party
Because at the moment he is a candidate and he is seeking promotion from candidacy to the office of a public representative? It's not complicated.And how is getting elected promoted to the Dáil in George Lee's case?0 -
I'm willing to debate this, but you can't just call debate an exchange of insults when it doesn't suit you.
Does calling me childish ring a bell? it was post 260 which also had clear misrepresentation by suggesting that I had not already addressed his policies. And how about the sneering tone in the:
You can't defend FG or George Lee so you prejudice any readers perception by implying the person asking pertinent questions is taking an elitist standpoint. By anyone's definition that is insulting.You know how politics works better than George Lee eh? I'm surprised you weren't asked to run yourself. You seem to think George Lee is some low brow illiterate, mere 'economist'. ... What do you know about politics that the electorate does not?
Next point:Personally, neither Alex White's nor George Lee's employment history with RTE bother me so maybe someone else who it does bother will be better at debating bith situations with you.
Tommy Broughan, Roisin Shorthall and Brendan Howlin are currently (or have been up to recently) only on leave from their jobs as teachers. They are sitting TDs for the Labour party.
They are, meanwhile (unless it has changed very recently) tallying up full pension entitlement as teachers.
Best of all, there is Labour's defence spokesman Brian O Shea. Brian clocked up more payment as a teacher while IN the Dail than any other member.
He earned €49,527 as a teacher - while he was a sitting TD. No other TD managed that amount.
The point is that George Lee is merely a candidate and if he didn't get elected, would have no job. There are TDs in the Dail, including in your party and mine, who are "on leave" from their jobs in the public service and will be drawing on such leave for pensions. This has been backed up by Ruairi Quinn who has publicly supported the situation.
I think your consternation is misdirected somewhat here.
However they have not made a virtue of leaving their job until the media pulled them up on it. They are openly on leave George Lee was initially believed to have left RTE. And Alex White left RTE in 1994 so lumping him in with George Lee and therefore implying his actions are the same is disingenuous. So facts please, not fallacies.
My man you haven't even begun to hit the nail on the head here. Look at the South Dublin constituency - ALL of the FG TDs may well be at the cabinet table - Olivia Mitchell, Alan Shatter and George Lee. How's that going to look? We won't know where to put all of our talented politicians. There is too much talent in this party. You have just named three high profile experts all jockeying for two economic portfolios in Fine Gael. I can't even think of one person in Labour who could challenge them.
You haven't answered the question is Enda Kenny going to risk the party he rebuilt to give a celeb a position? Especially as you point out in a constituency which isn't at risk and therefore there is no need for another high level appointment.
Because at the moment he is a candidate and he is seeking promotion from candidacy to the office of a public representative? It's not complicated.
Promotion is the elevation from your current occupation in George Lee's case journalist to a higher level within that career path, if you change careers and are essentially an applicant that is not a promotion. But I'll agree to disagree on a matter of semantics.0 -
No. I remember commenting that the argument that George Lee was not a proper economist is childish. But I'm not going to trawl through the thread so if you would just show me where I said you are childish?truebluedub wrote: »Does calling me childish ring a bell?
Are you joking! When I asked you if you knew anything about politics you said you knew more than George Lee seems to know. You then said you know more than I do (as anyone who would dismiss someone like Alex White). This is bizarre, read what you said. Would you mind just focusing on sticking to the debate instead of baselessly accusing others of insults.You can't defend FG or George Lee so you prejudice any readers perception by implying the person asking pertinent questions is taking an elitist standpoint. By anyone's definition that is insulting.
People don't generally leave their jobs to become candidates, that would be rare in any position. Moreover, George Lee never claimed to have resigned, unless you have proof to the contrary? If you assumed he'd left, you were taking that assumption upon yourself. I would have assumed Brian O Shea would have had quit as a teacher when he became a TD, but there you go.they have not made a virtue of leaving their job until the media pulled them up on it. They are openly on leave George Lee was initially believed to have left RTE.
Alex White is a Labour politician who formerly worked with the national broadcaster, RTE. in a senior position. In fact, as a producer he would have more influence in the content of his subjects than a mere "journalist", in your words, would have. All I'm saying, is that as far as we know, his Labour affiliations were not disclosed.And Alex White left RTE in 1994 so lumping him in with George Lee and therefore implying his actions are the same is disingenuous. So facts please, not fallacies.
There is another element to Alex White's background that is pretty colourful.
Is it true that he was once vice President of the SIPTU branch that represent public sector workers?
Don't you think he has a serious vested interest? Don't you think he still has any old pals from those days? Personally, I don't think that sounds like someone I would trust to walk a tough line on public sector pay control or be tough on unions.
It would be ludicrous not to give Lee an appointment on the front bench. If it were me I would put Varadaker into Health and reshuffle some other Ministries somewhat, leaving Lee in Enterprise, Trade and Employment. With all of this talent, it's just hard to know what to do with it.You haven't answered the question is Enda Kenny going to risk the party he rebuilt to give a celeb a position? Especially as you point out in a constituency which isn't at risk and therefore there is no need for another high level appointment.
There is no need for another high level appointment in Dublin South, that's true. So if Alex White finds himself in the Dail in the general election that follows this bye-election, I don't see how he could ever hope to beat talent like Mitchell, Shatter, or George Lee to the Cabinet Table. It wouldn't be realistic of him.0 -
Are you joking! When I asked you if you knew anything about politics you said you knew more than George Lee seems to know. You then said you know more than I do (as anyone who would dismiss someone like Alex White). This is bizarre, read what you said. Would you mind just focusing on sticking to the debate instead of baselessly accusing others of insults.
Which I then demonstrated using actual evidence from his own actions and statements.
People don't generally leave their jobs to become candidates, that would be rare in any position. Moreover, George Lee never claimed to have resigned, unless you have proof to the contrary? If you assumed he'd left, you were taking that assumption upon yourself. I would have assumed Brian O Shea would have had quit as a teacher when he became a TD, but there you go.
It was initially stated that he was stepping down from his job at RTE until it was clarified that in fact he was stepping down as economics editor. The misconception continued for quite some time and may not yet be completely dispelled.Alex White is a Labour politician who formerly worked with the national broadcaster, RTE. in a senior position. In fact, as a producer he would have more influence in the content of his subjects than a mere "journalist", in your words, would have. All I'm saying, is that as far as we know, his Labour affiliations were not disclosed.
There is another element to Alex White's background that is pretty colourful.
Is it true that he was once vice President of the SIPTU branch that represent public sector workers?
Don't you think he has a serious vested interest? Don't you think he still has any old pals from those days? Personally, I don't think that sounds like someone I would trust to walk a tough line on public sector pay control or be tough on unions.
I could divide this into sections but I'll deal with it in one go. Yes he was a member of SIPTU and Vice president and an activist within it, so? You probably also think the fact his wife is in the public sector is also a vested interest. Is Lee's previous employment in the Banks (CBOI) not also an issue? I'm sure he has many former colleagues whose actions contributed to the current crisis and who are not lending to the SME's or other businesses.It would be ludicrous not to give Lee an appointment on the front bench. If it were me I would put Varadaker into Health and reshuffle some other Ministries somewhat, leaving Lee in Enterprise, Trade and Employment. With all of this talent, it's just hard to know what to do with it.
There is no need for another high level appointment in Dublin South, that's true. So if Alex White finds himself in the Dail in the general election that follows this bye-election, I don't see how he could ever hope to beat talent like Mitchell, Shatter, or George Lee to the Cabinet Table. It wouldn't be realistic of him.
James Reilly is not going to be removed from health. And as I said it does not make any electoral sense to overload a single constituency with 4 cabinet ministers. You yourself pointed to the number with key positions, the same point you make against Alex White undermines George Lee. If FG get to Government he'll get a junior ministry if anything.
Which are you emphasising here? The term 'mere "journalist"' which having just confimed by thrawling my posts I never used or "journalist" which is exactly what he has been as he won an award for his JOURNALISM.a mere "journalist", in your words0 -
RTÉ's economics editor George Lee is to seek the Fine Gael nomination for the Dublin South by-election.
Speaking on RTÉ radio's News at One, Mr Lee said he had been actively considering putting his name forward since the supplementary budget in April.
He also dismissed suggestions that he had engaged in any anti-Government bias while he was considering the move, and said he had reported accurately and fairly in RTÉ. The seat in Dublin South was left vacant by the death of former Fianna Fail TD Seamus Brennan.
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On RTÉ radio, Mr Lee accused the Government of catastrophic economic management and said it was time for people like him to get off the fence and see if they could make a difference. He said he was paying a big price in leaving RTÉ, but that it was not one he was paying to sit on the back benches. He said he wanted to ensure the country got better government than it was getting at present.
'Throughout the past 17 years I have been employed by RTÉ where I have been Economics Editor for most of that time. It has been a huge privilege and an honour to have performed this role,' Mr Lee said in a statement.
'Through news reports and current affairs documentaries and analysis on both television and radio I have spoken directly and impartially to people as clearly as I could. Always I have done my best to keep the public fully informed and up to date about the economy,' he added.
http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0505/lee.html0 -
I haven't seen you prove anything yet in relation to just about anything you've said in this thread. So we'll just have to see if the electorate agree with you in two weeks time or not, and then I guess we'll know.truebluedub wrote: »Which I then demonstrated using actual evidence from his own actions and statements.
But he is stepping down from his job because his job is economics editor. How could he step down from some other appointment apart from economic editor? I'm not sure how you could be confused about that, if you picked it up wrong you can't blame George Lee.It was initially stated that he was stepping down from his job at RTE until it was clarified that in fact he was stepping down as economics editor. The misconception continued for quite some time and may not yet be completely dispelled.
Anyway, I'm sure when he is elected on June the 5th his official resignation from RTE will follow shortly thereafter.I could divide this into sections but I'll deal with it in one go. Yes he was a member of SIPTU and Vice president and an activist within it, so?
So? At a time when the public services are getting out of hand, the Government needs the cold and clinical scalpel to trim away the fat. Do you really think it can afford the vested interests of the former vice President of that branch of SIPTU which fought in favour of public services pay rises? It would be crazy for a Government to allow such an individual any vote in policy at the cabinet table. In my opinion, it's crazy even to put him forward for the Dail.
No, I don't actually. It's his own deep involvement with Public Sector Unions that I'd be worried about. I think most people would share that concern.You probably also think the fact his wife is in the public sector is also a vested interest.
Not for me, and it looks like it isn't going to be an issue for the electorate either. George Lee has been a watchdog for the public, unafraid to expose high profile banking scandals where necessary and indeed has been publicly praised for publicly for doing so.Is Lee's previous employment in the Banks (BOI) not also an issue?
Good luck trying to get Alex White to say anything negative about his old pals back in the public sector unions.
I think it's fantastic that a great talent like George Lee would ever be talked about as only sufficient to win him a junior ministry, it says a lot about the corresponding talents of his worthy competitors in Fine Gael so you may well have a point. Dublin South is Fine Gael's Golden Constituency.You yourself pointed to the number with key positions, the same point you make against Alex White undermines George Lee. If FG get to Government he'll get a junior ministry if anything.0 -
So? At a time when the public services are getting out of hand, the Government needs the cold and clinical scalpel to trim away the fat. Do you really think it can afford the vested interests of the former vice President of that branch of SIPTU which fought in favour of public services pay rises? It would be crazy for a Government to allow such an individual any vote in policy at the cabinet table. In my opinion, it's crazy even to put him forward for the Dail.
What's crazy is a policy that will increase unemployment. How will that stimulate economic growth?
I think it's fantastic that a great talent like George Lee would ever be talked about as only sufficient to win him a junior ministry, it says a lot about the corresponding talents of his worthy competitors in Fine Gael so you may well have a point. Dublin South is Fine Gael's Golden Constituency.
The point is this is a safe constituency it would be a tactical error to overload this one at the expense of those which might be less secure. Enda Kenny isn't an idiot an will realise this. George Lee is on the ticket because his profile is likely to increase his chances.
Looking at FG's shadow cabinet Reilly and Bruton are in their positions for their areas of expertise, the rest seem to be either senior and therefore powerful figures within FG or as in the case of Enright and Varadkar are his protoge's. He's not going to move his people so unless a senior figure wishes to step aside George Lee's seat at the table is a non runner in the short term. If FG get into power and FF SF is probably more likely in the next term then he may get elevated but it is fantasy to see him in a senior position in his first term and actually junior ministry maybe over-optimistic.0 -
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Quite frankly, in the short term they cost less on the Dole.truebluedub wrote: »What's crazy is a policy that will increase unemployment. How will that stimulate economic growth?
I believe that Fine Gael, once in power will trim down those elements of the public sector which are not cost-effective.
Fire a significant number of public service workers.
Give them the Dole and their benefits.
Subtract this cost from the salary and pensions you would have been giving them.
This is your balance.
Spend this balance on enterprise and job creation strategies to move these (sometimes well educated) civil servants and the rest of the (often well educated, bright and efficient) unemployed into private enterprise employment.
Lol, who do you think you are kidding with this? You're just listing off talented FGers and saying why Lee isn't going to get their job. That's not an argument for anything. Nobody would believe you that Lee won't be given a minesterial responsibility. You lack any credibility on that.The point is this is a safe constituency it would be a tactical error to overload this one at the expense of those which might be less secure.
With his involvement with the public sector unions, Alex White might has well have a bell around his neck, he would be the leper of South Dublin in parliamentary terms.0 -
Quite frankly, in the short term they cost less on the Dole.
I believe that Fine Gael, once in power will trim down those elements of the public sector which are not cost-effective.
Fire a significant number of public service workers.
Give them the Dole and their benefits.
Subtract this cost from the salary and pensions you would have been giving them.
This is your balance.
Spend this balance on enterprise and job creation strategies to move these (sometimes well educated) civil servants and the rest of the (often well educated, bright and efficient) unemployed into private enterprise employment.
Aside from your anti public service bias, and many of the least cost effective areas of the public service are those that benefit the disadvantaged such as education in deprived areas, if there is currently a massive shortfall in revenue that can only be made up for in taxes then you do not deprive the state of what meager revenue it can generate by laying people off. This will deprive the state of taxable income, the employees of their ability to spend which will further depress the economy meaning that private sector workers will, as a knock on effect suffer, more job losses. Your proposal looks good on paper but fails to take into account that setting up the measures would take a considerable amount of time and immediate investment which cannot be applied without taxation.
You refuse to face the fact that there is no space for George Lee in a FG cabinet.Lol, who do you think you are kidding with this? You're just listing off talented FGers and saying why Lee isn't going to get their job. That's not an argument for anything. Nobody would believe you that Lee won't be given a minesterial responsibility. You lack any credibility on that.0 -
Firstly, I'm not anti-public service. I'm opposed to the inefficient, expensive and immune nature of much of it.truebluedub wrote: »Aside from your anti public service bias, and many of the least cost effective areas of the public service are those that benefit the disadvantaged such as education in deprived areas, if there is currently a massive shortfall in revenue that can only be made up for in taxes then you do not deprive the state of what meager revenue it can generate by laying people off
Secondly, your reference to education in deprived areas not being cost effective makes no sense or is irrelevant.
One obviously does not apply the same mathematical parameters in determining cost-benefit in community regeneration projects and education as one does to staff writing memos and licking envelopes in the Department of Health. Clearly the benefits are different.
If any project is seriously costly and seriously ineffective, it must be examined but that's not really what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about laying off staff in certain key areas where their role is deemed to be no longer affordable relative to the benefit they provide, and they would be given the sack over a staggered time-line in order of least cost effective to most cost effective.
Do you realise what you are saying? The state is already paying the wages of these inefficient civil servants, it isn't actually making any profit from their income tax!This will deprive the state of taxable income
No, this would be done over a staggered period of time. Letting go of batches of civil servants on a biannual or annual basis so as to avoid a guerilla attack on consumer spending.the employees of their ability to spend
As one batch of these individuals take up employment, you look at the figures, and then release the next batch when they have dried up. The quicker the economy grows, the quicker you let go of ready batches. The money you save on paying these people must be injected wholesale into private enterprise which will employ the next batch of workers and so on to produce a cycle. It's like recycling.
In fact, what better enterprise to recycle public servants into than green energy, for example.
Well all of the money saved by laying these people off should be reinvested in private enterprise and re-employment. Then there are the other cost cutting measures that would help pay for such investment in enterprise, like cutting the dole payment by 6% or 7% maybe, and clearing up inefficiencies across different public services.Your proposal looks good on paper but fails to take into account that setting up the measures would take a considerable amount of time and immediate investment which cannot be applied without taxation.
As George Lee has proposed, we should also sell Bord Gais and the ESB as additional revenue raising exercises.
As for tax increases, yes that should be looked at. I don't think any party realistically believes you can just snip and cut and pawn your way out of this recession. You have to tax your way out of this recession before you can spend your way out of it.
No I've already answered that point. Leo Varadkar, Health. George Lee, Enterprise and Employment. Cabinet Reshuffle, these front bench positions are not sacred.You refuse to face the fact that there is no space for George Lee in a FG cabinet.
However you, on the other hand, fail to admit that Alex White the Public Sector Union Man would be the poison chalice of any party's front bench, let alone the cabinet.0 -
However you, on the other hand, fail to admit that Alex White the Public Sector Union Man would be the poison chalice of any party's front bench, let alone the cabinet.
Ok I' not quoting the entire post but your economic proposals seem more reasonable now and should have been explained that way in the first place, maybe placing some thought into how you compose an argument before posting would help. Now the point quoted above: One prove that he would be a poison chalice that is your interpretation based on your ideology, two FF have a far closer relationship to the unions now then we do, three he would be no less poisonous then people who you would clearly prefer as coalition partners who are deeply unpopular, are close to the unions, have betrayed the public trust, and have outstanding issues with perceived and real corruption.
Lets move away from Alex White the fact is that neither he nor George Lee has been very good at conveying their points both have had their heads handed to them by Shaun Tracey unlike George Lee he knows what he's talking about and knows when to listen to others in debates which in George Lee's case comes across as rude and arrogant. And unlike Alex he doesn't start his answers by justifying the policy or answer different questions than the one put to him. So he is able to give short concise statements.0 -
There is another element to Alex White's background that is pretty colourful.
Is it true that he was once vice President of the SIPTU branch that represent public sector workers?
Don't you think he has a serious vested interest? Don't you think he still has any old pals from those days? Personally, I don't think that sounds like someone I would trust to walk a tough line on public sector pay control or be tough on unions.
White just feels like more of the same old, same old to me.
A barrister (don't have enough of them in the Dáil already), former councillor and deputy mayor of South Dublin. He didn't get elected in the 07 general election, so he was slipped into the Senate through a Sinn Fein / Labour pact. Now he can claim "valuable political experience" (whatever that is - that he's sat on committees and learned how best to pad an expense report??).
And as you said, a former VP of SIPTU Public Sector division for 4 years.
To me, as a floating voter, I can't see any justification in voting for White over Lee. If Lee wasn't running I do think White might be my first choice, but it would be a "best of a bad lot" choice. Lee feels like a fresh approach - not a career politician, not a member of political dynasty, someone with relevant expertise - and I want him to at least have a chance to do something, and see if maybe a new approach might work.
Anyway, no doubt White will slip back into the Senate to await the next election if he fails again this time around.0 -
truebluedub wrote: »Anyone spot George Lee and several other FGs standing around waving at traffic earlier. Looking as inspiring as those gormless twats surrounding RTE's journalist David Davin-Power at the FF Ard-dheis.
He was at this again this morning. Standing in a cycle lane (nice way to get on the side of cyclists) at the corner of Churchtown Rd and Nutgrove Ave with a few FG friends waying at people in cars. Is he trying to get a job as Mickey Mouse in Disneyland or running for the Dail. The best bit was the poor young fella on the other corner holding the George Lee cardboard cut-out.0 -
He was at this again this morning. Standing in a cycle lane (nice way to get on the side of cyclists) at the corner of Churchtown Rd and Nutgrove Ave with a few FG friends waying at people in cars. Is he trying to get a job as Mickey Mouse in Disneyland or running for the Dail. The best bit was the poor young fella on the other corner holding the George Lee cardboard cut-out.
At least he is showing his face in public unlike the other 'gormless twats'... Seriously have you seen many, if ANY of the candidates in your area? Shock horror he was in the cycle lane, polls just in, no cyclists are voting for George Lee:rolleyes:0 -
I haven't seen you prove anything yet in relation to just about anything you've said in this thread. So we'll just have to see if the electorate agree with you in two weeks time or not, and then I guess we'll know.
I have consistently backed up the majority of my arguments with citations and evidence you haven't, instead basing your arguments on nothing. I could also point out that you create fictional case studies on other threads while I rely on EVIDENCE. Which of us has more credibility?0
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