George Lee to run for Fine Gael In Dublin South.

kraggy

gandalf wrote: »

The more proper professionals join the ranks of our TD's the better. Also if it breaks the "hand me down" to family members whose only credentials going for them is the fact Daddy was a TD aspect of Dail seats then I am all in favour of it.

Typical of FF using the son of a dead TD to try and get the "Auld ones" to sympathy vote them back in.

All parties have done that in the past.

A prime example is that of the party which is putting forth George Lee. Simon Coveney took over the seat of his father for Fine Gael.

turgon

dvpower wrote: »

Aren't TDs supposed to represent their own (local) constuitents? If not, then we should move to having one national constituency.

The problem with national constituencies is that you get a lot of small interest groups and hard liners, such as Shell to Sea and the Communist party, winning seats because theres bound to be 10,00 people who would vote them nationwide.

This is off topic though, if you want to continue discussing how our political system should/could/would be changed we can start a new thread

dave-higgz

dvpower wrote: »

That said, George Lee in South Dublin would be representing senior bankers, property developers and the like.;)

What do you take him for? For years he's reported on the issues facing ordinary people. He even said it himself today that if he didn't stop sitting on the fence then he wouldn't be able to look his children in the eye and say "I tried to fix this mess". No one has more insight than he does and he'll make a fresh new contribution to Irish Politics.

You say it like there's money to be made by helping these people, and yes if he were to help property developers the backhand cash would be substantial. However considering he's giving up a six-figure RTE salaray, money is clearly not his motive.

Also why does his running in South Dublin bare a representation of senior bankers etc.? Sure it has a relatively wealthy demographic however you'll find Ballsbridge are Donnybrook and in Dublin South East. Also George is from Templeogue, hardly a rich place and he attended a public school. Even at that it's clear he doesn't want to represent the constituency, he wants to represent the country and while he may not take interest in our local need, most people will be more than happy to vote for someone who has a track record and who may just solve everybody's problems. Not just those of Dublin South

gizmo555

kraggy wrote: »

A prime example is that of the party which is putting forth George Lee.

The primest example by far is FF - the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minster for Finance, Cowen, Coughlan and Lenihan are all only there because their fathers were before them. (Coughlan infamously replied "because I need the job", when asked why she wanted to be in the Dáil after she was elected as the youngest ever TD - so much for public service . . .)

murphaph

IIMII wrote: »

Becaue he was impartial and influenced thinking of all people on matters economic. Now people (that don't support FG) feel that what he has said in the past may have been influenced by his political sympathies

I used to vote FF (stopped 2 elections ago). I could see things were going bad. Manufacturing has been declining for 8 years now. I didn't need George Lee to tell me FF were and are making a balls of the economy. He just spoke pretty much the truth.

For once I believe this guy has the best interests of the country at heart. Maybe he'll end up running FG and the country. I wish him all the best for making a personal effort to drag this country back on its knees.

The Biff

If you want "damning" evidence against Political Nepotism ....

Brian Cowen - succeeded his father Ber.
Brian Lenihan - succeeded his father Brian.
Mary Coughlan - succeeded her father Cathal.

It's time we got TD's whose Qualifications for the Role are cast a bit higher than that.

---

Edit: I see gizmo555 got in before me. It took me that long to find my old password.

dave-higgz

The Biff wrote: »

It's time we got TD's whose Qualifications for the Role are cast a bit higher than that.

This is clearly for another forum but we can't just stop the children of former politicians becomming TD's. The only way to stop this nepotism is to change the way the irish electorate views their politicians. We can no longer let them manipulate us into voting for a candidate based on sympathy or family. It needs to be about policily and character.

Rebeller

Darragh29 wrote:

At least he is prepared to get up off his arse and take a risk

Exactly. He has always seemed like an honest, plain-talking type of guy. He came across as very passionate during his time on Liveline this afternoon and at one stage seemed on the verge of tears.

Irish politics lacks individuals with passion, drive, idealism and above all else vision. While certainly not the answer to all our problems, George Lee will be a welcome alternative to the typical parish-pump, gombeen politicians that have made this nation what it is.

I think our political system needs more talented "outsiders" such as George.

I wish him the best of luck!

kippy

I have to say, I am fairly surprised at the number of skeptics on this thread, some of whom have been calling for a change in government/people in government.
Of course its a coup for FG, Lee is high profile and has the knowledge to potentially get us out of this mess, together with Bruton they may make a great team.
Id agree with those here in relation to knocking the "local politics" on the head. This country is in the mess we are in because of that kind of attitude. These guys need too look at the wider picture....not just the local one. Lee has made it VERY obvious that is what he is doing. As many have stated, if the country improves so to does this filter down to the local constituents.
All in all, a move in the right direction for politics, beats getting a GAA figurehead in or a son/daughter of a politician any day.

Kippy

SkepticOne

He made a programme a few years ago called Boom in which he showed how shaky the basis of the post 2000 economy was. One thing I remember him saying was that two thirds of new jobs for men since 2000 were in construction; two thirds of new jobs for women since 2000 were in the public sector. He was one of the few pointing out this sort of thing at a time when people were often openly hostile to anything that wasn't 100% positive about the economy.

You can still watch the programme here:

http://www.rte.ie/business/features/boom/

Only three years ago, but a almost different country.

The White Rose

dvpower wrote: »

Aren't TDs supposed to represent their own (local) constuitents? If not, then we should move to having one national constituency.

I don't think anyone here is defending the the current position where TDs spend their days trying to get potholes filled or trying to get hospital appointments for local people, or even selling their votes to the highest bidder like Tony Gregory or Jackie Healy Ray, but surely they should represent their constituency as a whole (e.g. TDs representing working class areas would represent the needs of working class people).

That said, George Lee in South Dublin would be representing senior bankers, property developers and the like.;)

So only property developers and bank managers live in South Dublin?

Not true, there are all kinds of people living there- there is the kind of attitude that a lot of people who live outside South Dublin have. Lee will be a great addition, we need more like him. Brennan's link to Anglo will doom him (if he wasnt doomed anyway)

kippy

SkepticOne wrote: »

He made a programme a few years ago called Boom in which he showed how shaky the basis of the post 2000 economy was. One thing I remember him saying was that two thirds of new jobs for men since 2000 were in construction; two thirds of new jobs for women since 2000 were in the public sector. He was one of the few pointing out this sort of thing at a time when people were often openly hostile to anything that wasn't 100% positive about the economy.

You can still watch the programme here:

http://www.rte.ie/business/features/boom/

Only three years ago, but a almost different country.

I remember that. It was very prophetic, he wasnt the only economist highlighting the issues. In fairness he seems to want to get involved in the solution. Hopefully others like him have the same bravery, cos it IS a brave move.

gandalf

kraggy wrote: »

All parties have done that in the past.

A prime example is that of the party which is putting forth George Lee. Simon Coveney took over the seat of his father for Fine Gael.

Exactly in the past and it is nice to see hopefully that is ending.

From my perspective the party most guilty of perpetuating parish politics in this country is Fianna Fail, with complete dynasties of families making up some of their numbers. I would question how these people can relate to the ordinary people of this country when their life experience consisted of growing up in political households.

This would be one major reason I welcome someone from outside the political arena like George Lee getting involved. It helps to strengthen the weakened genetics of Irish Politics and help us move away from the incestuous watering down of the politics of this country from the pathetic feudal-like "hand me down culture" that has infused our major parties.

unwyse

george should be made high king of ireland with absolute power to do what he sees fit to sort out this kip of a country.rock on george, next stop,who knows where? you deffo have my no1.

MikeC101

Jip wrote: »

The mans an economist, an area that is seen as pseudo-science by many people, he's got no practicial experience in anything like this.

Unlike our current crop, who have such excellent practical experience in things like "how to get the most from your travel expenses", "how to effectively take bribes", "how to pad out those unvouched expenses", "how to get the oul plannin' permission sorted out for your local business man", and last but not least "how to inherit daddy's seat".

That's the problem - they've so much practical experience in how things operate that they're too bloody busy using it to their own advantage, and have no new ideas or fresh perspectives on anything.

dave-higgz

unwyse wrote: »

george should be made high king of ireland with absolute power to do what he sees fit to sort out this kip of a country.rock on george, next stop,who knows where? you deffo have my no1.

Taoiseach George Lee :rolleyes:
That remains to be seen.

Assuming George gets in and the public have their way in knocking Enda Kenny off the leadership, we might see something like this next election.

Taoiseach Richard Bruton
Minister for Finance George Lee

2 economists is a hell of a lot better than 2 Brians with no Brains

nuttz

Why do I get the feeling I am in After Hours?

dvpower

dvpower wrote: »

That said, George Lee in South Dublin would be representing senior bankers, property developers and the like.;)

dave-higgz wrote: »

What do you take him for? For years he's reported on the issues facing ordinary people.

...

You say it like there's money to be made by helping these people, and yes if he were to help property developers the backhand cash would be substantial.
...

Also why does his running in South Dublin bare a representation of senior bankers etc.? Sure it has a relatively wealthy demographic however you'll find Ballsbridge are Donnybrook and in Dublin South East. Also George is from Templeogue, hardly a rich place and he attended a public school. Even at that it's clear he doesn't want to represent the constituency, he wants to represent the country and while he may not take interest in our local need, most people will be more than happy to vote for someone who has a track record and who may just solve everybody's problems. Not just those of Dublin South

The White Rose wrote: »

So only property developers and bank managers live in South Dublin?

Not true, there are all kinds of people living there- there is the kind of attitude that a lot of people who live outside South Dublin have.

Jeez. I did use a smiley winkey thing. It was supposed to indicate humour, maybe sarcasm. No need to get up on a high horse.

What do you people want? (Rethorical question, no need to respond.)

dave-higgz

dvpower wrote: »

Jeez. I did use a smiley winkey thing. It was supposed to indicate humour, maybe sarcasm. No need to get up on a high horse.

What do you people want? (Rethorical question, no need to respond.)

Sorry I misinterpreted that. But people might assume that and I just wanted to set the record straight. To be fair there are some posh cnuts in my area however since the boom every constituency has a similar % of people driving Range Rovers :pac:

NewDubliner

dave-higgz wrote: »

Assuming George gets in and the public have their way in knocking Enda Kenny off the leadership, we might see something like this next election.

Good be a good tactic for FG to cultivate the Dublin vote.

garbanzo

Clever move by FG alright. Too many non-experts with no relevant experience in the Dáil already. However I fear he will get tied up by the system and end up achieving nothing. Who was it said ... "all political careers end in failure" ? In fairness I wish him well as he seems like an honest, say it as he sees it sorta guy. That'll be a real and welcome change in Irish political circles.

He's standing in my constituency so I'll have the option of voting for him. If he calls to my door I'll give him a few bars of " . . . up the right wing up the left wing up the centre to the line. When we meet them we will beat them Templeogue (College) you're doing fine " just for old time's sake.

F*ck The Gick'

G_R

its been said before but ill say it again,

im delighted to see someone running who actually has expertise in a field that is relevant to getting this country out of the hole its in. I really hope (if he gets elected) he isnt held back by party politics.

If FG get back in power nxt time round (which in fairness is lookin pretty likely) and he is put in a position where he can actually do something and influence policy/decisions then he might jus help pull us out of this mess.

and as for local politics (i kno its off topic but i had to say something) voting for X cos u went to school wih his sister and cos he promised to get the NRA to fill the pothole outside your gaf is not the way to decide who runs out country for god sake. thats what the local elections are for. clues in the name local and national.:D

grumpytrousers

Enoch Powell. He said 'all political careers end in failure'; funny, i was just thinking that as a reply to Sleepys comment earlier about whether Inda would get the F out now and let Bruton and Lee be the finance Torpedo Twins after the elections.

So long as Lee doesn't make any bold promises to unilaterally deliver us from economic meltdown, we'll be okay. It's not his stock in trade. What he appears to have shown is an ability not to get caught up in 'hype'; admittedly this was during his career as a journalist and within the confines of the party system, he might be caught having to toe a line rather than tell it exactly as it is.

I suspect he might be given the latitude to say whatever he thinks on matters economic, as he will effectively be the economic powerhouse within the party. I mean, obviously, there'll be other advisors, but he's bound to have stipulated that there be a 'no numpties' rule in there somewhere!

ninty9er

The Biff wrote: »

If you want "damning" evidence against Political Nepotism ....

Brian Cowen - succeeded his father Ber.
Brian Lenihan - succeeded his father Brian.
Mary Coughlan - succeeded her father Cathal.

It's time we got TD's whose Qualifications for the Role are cast a bit higher than that.

---

Edit: I see gizmo555 got in before me. It took me that long to find my old password.

If you want to play that game look at the FG front bench too
Enda Kenny - > son of Henry
Olwyn Enright - > Son of Tom
Joe McHugh - > husband of Olwyn Enright (recent controversy of both claiming overnight expenses)
Simon Coveney - > son of Hugh
Richard Bruton - > brother of John
Kieran O'Donnell - > nephew of Tom
Denis Naughton - > son of Liam
John Deasy - > son of Austin

Gay Mitchell MEP - > brother of Jim

Nora Owen - > sister of Mary Banotti, MEP and FG presidential candidate.

If you want to point fingers, which I don't think it makes a difference, relatives of politicians have to prove themselves to the public to get elected, you should at least stop the pretence that it applies only to FF.

None of this matters...people succeed their parents in all types of careers, if they want to do it in politics, so be it.

Rebeller wrote: »

Exactly. He has always seemed like an honest, plain-talking type of guy. He came across as very passionate during his time on Liveline this afternoon and at one stage seemed on the verge of tears.

Irish politics lacks individuals with passion, drive, idealism and above all else vision. While certainly not the answer to all our problems, George Lee will be a welcome alternative to the typical parish-pump, gombeen politicians that have made this nation what it is.

I think our political system needs more talented "outsiders" such as George.

I wish him the best of luck!

He's part of the system now, only time will tell on that front. I wish him all the best, but obviously I wish Maria or Shay (whichever wins the convention) better. Yes that's partisan, but then again, I am.

The White Rose wrote: »

So only property developers and bank managers live in South Dublin?

Not true, there are all kinds of people living there- there is the kind of attitude that a lot of people who live outside South Dublin have. Lee will be a great addition, we need more like him. Brennan's link to Anglo will doom him (if he wasnt doomed anyway)

Throwing the Anglo link at Brennan will backfire for any politician who tries to use it to their advantage, just as using Bertie's murky finances backfired on Enda. Addressing the opponent only proves one thing, you have nothing worthwhile to say about yourself. This has been tried and has failed countless times at all levels of elections, from Credit Unions to national politics.

People DO NOT WANT TO HEAR why the other guy is crap, they want to hear why you are good, without relating to the opponent at all preferrably.

Wheely

ninty9er wrote: »

People DO NOT WANT TO HEAR why the other guy is crap, .

I dont know.It worked pretty successfully for karl rove for a long time

murphaph

ninty9er wrote: »

None of this matters...people succeed their parents in all types of careers, if they want to do it in politics, so be it.

Ugh, I hate to hear people talk of politics as a career. That's what's wrong with most politicians-they view it as a job, rather than a public service.

The_Minister

Does anyone know how long he has had this arranged?

I'd like to know how long RTE's leading economist has been lanning to run for a political party for.

yoshytoshy

murphaph wrote: »

Ugh, I hate to hear people talk of politics as a career. That's what's wrong with most politicians-they view it as a job, rather than a public service.

I can never understand why politicians need to be payed so much money ,in a neutral country like ireland

Obviously people like obama and brown are putting their lives at risk ,with terrorist threats and lack of privacy.
But why so much money needs to be paid here for ?
And fookin more holidays than principle skinner to boot.

People like george lee will give some value to the money that politicians are paid.

thebigcheese22

I have mixed feelings over this....

As a Labour supporter, I felt that Alex White had a superb chance at this seat, he's been campaigning for months and I think its unfair that FG parachute in Lee with a month to go. I still hope and pray White gets it, as he is one of the most competent Senators in the House IMO and should be in the Dail.

On the other hand I think Lee will make a good politician if he keeps in line with his broadcasting ethos, regardless of his party. I won't be happy if FG win it, but at least its not FF. Although I still think (and hope) White will win the seat.

ninty9er

murphaph wrote: »

Ugh, I hate to hear people talk of politics as a career. That's what's wrong with most politicians-they view it as a job, rather than a public service.

From a Human Resources perspective, you should view every job as a career step if you are to be successful at it. It's not wrong to treat politics as a career, it's wrong not to apply yourself to it, which I think is more the issue you're getting at.

Public service and a career are not polar opposites.