Newcastle/Big Sam/Shearer/Barton/arse in bacon slicer thread

invincibleirish

To be fair Joey Barton isn't the complete racist, violent, skobish nasty piece of work we all know him to be, he talks some sense as well:

I've not yet seen the famous crowd I was expecting to hear get behind us," said the £5m signing.

"Instead it has been vicious; I don't think I've heard a crowd that vicious

"The fans want success and they want it straight away, but unless they change that mentality and start supporting the side through poor results then things won't change."

"Unless there's a massive change, it's going to be the same for this manager, the next manager and whoever comes in after that.

"If it continues, when the manager goes for players, they will go somewhere else rather than jump in the frying pan.

"Sam's a good manager. He's getting the brunt of the criticism but doesn't deserve it. Not many managers can turn a club round in five minutes."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7122616.stm

- Barton 1/12/2007 Perhaps the greatest fans ever could have taken some of this on board.

inforfun

Iang87 wrote: »

Remember nasri tried trip him up at the emirates for no apparent reason at the emirates. Why wasn't there a thread saying what a sneeky move out of him.

If i remember correctly it was Mr Barton who, minutes on the pitch, launched a horrible tackle on Nasri. Very usefull with 3-0 down.
Not only tried Nasri to trip him, he succeeded nicely.

tony1kenobi

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

The fans expect a manager to have an immediate impact and win trophies.

Someone needs to tell them that football doesn't work like that.

Didn't Chelsea do just that a few years ago?

LowOdour

Even though I think he is pure scum, he is a decent footballer and will find a premiership club cus teams like bolton west ham etc take on players like these because they usually get them cheap and there is a chance that they will do the business on the field.

Boggles

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Didn't Chelsea do just that a few years ago?

Chelsea + already established + billions + José (top manager) = Success.

That formula does work.

JPA

Helix wrote: »

keggy wouldve taken them down imo

I really don't think so. He might have struggled a bit but they would have been around lower midtable IMO.

Mitch Connor

Xavi6 wrote: »

^^^ This

Relegation + new owner = bigger and better Newcastle in 5 years time

Or

Relegation - premiership money + a squad on premiership wages not championship 'proofed' = Another Leeds.

JPA

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or

Relegation - premiership money + a squad on premiership wages not championship 'proofed' = Another Leeds.

True. Relegation is never ever the answer for any club. How could paying premier league wages, losing 40 million, all your best players, and a third of your fans be good for the club?

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

^^^ This

Relegation + new owner = bigger and better Newcastle in 5 years time

Can't see the cloud for the silver lining there.

Owen's on how much a week exactly? I can't rememebr but it's a lot.

By all accounts Newcastle players don't have relegation wage drop clauses, and if someone like Owen can't find a club to pay his extortionate wages then he'll happily stay and bankrupt Newcastle.

Two clubs relegated from the Premiership relatively recently in Southampton and Charlton are now going down to League One where they may join Leeds if they fail to escape via the play offs.

JPA

^^ Owen's contract is up. He's one they don't have to worry about.

Xavi6

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or

Relegation - premiership money + a squad on premiership wages not championship 'proofed' = Another Leeds.

But that's where a new board comes in. It would have to be done correctly.

When City went down we had over 50 players in or around the first team. Joe Royle came in and got rid of all the dead wood. That, combined with great backroom support from the likes of David Bernstein, laid the foundations for the great model we have in place now with one of the best youth academies in the country.

A club like Newcastle can easily bounce back if managed correctly.

invincibleirish

JPA wrote: »

I really don't think so. He might have struggled a bit but they would have been around lower midtable IMO.

Midtable? no way! Newcastle have bought crap for the past few seasons and now are broke. Shearer/Kinnear/Keegan collectively would not have been able to prevent this Newcastle team struggling. Only the abject awfulness of Hull & Boro might save them this season and nothing else.

I'd love to see Owen at Villa on a pay per play basis. Carew-Owen is the kind of retro big man small man partnership loved through the ages.

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

Midtable? no way! Newcastle have bought crap for the past few seasons and now are broke. Shearer/Kinnear/Keegan collectively would not have been able to prevent this Newcastle team struggling. Only the abject awfulness of Hull & Boro might save them this season and nothing else.

I'm talking 13th or 14th here. Not unrealistic. Is their squad better than Wigan or Fulham?

Iang87

inforfun wrote: »

If i remember correctly it was Mr Barton who, minutes on the pitch, launched a horrible tackle on Nasri. Very usefull with 3-0 down.
Not only tried Nasri to trip him, he succeeded nicely.

no what you remember was a 50/50 which barton won.

if i was being provoked like that on a field i'd react the same way he does.

i didnt say he was an angel i was just sayin anything he does dets blown out of proportion cos its him

invincibleirish

JPA wrote: »

I'm talking 13th or 14th here. Not unrealistic. Is there squad better than Wigan or Fulham?

The problem with Newcastle is that people look at their squad and think they're safe. But the group of players, irrespective of past achievements elsewhere, are simply not good enough to compete are they?

Viduka
Martins
Owen
Duff
Smith
Geremi
Barton
Butt

All big name players, but Newcastle would do well to get rid of all of them come summer time whether they stay up or not as it just isn't working for them. So no i'd disagree Fulham & Wigan are better.

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

But that's where a new board comes in. It would have to be done correctly.

When City went down we had over 50 players in or around the first team. Joe Royle came in and got rid of all the dead wood. That, combined with great backroom support from the likes of David Bernstein, laid the foundations for the great model we have in place now with one of the best youth academies in the country.

A club like Newcastle can easily bounce back if managed correctly.

But there's no guarentee of a new board. Lots of billionaires are now merely millionaires. Mike Ashley's lost a phenomenal amount of money, the interest in buying a loss making asset like a football club is greatly reduced.

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

The problem with Newcastle is that people look at their squad and think they're safe. But the group of players, irrespective of past achievements elsewhere, are simply not good enough to compete are they?

Viduka
Martins
Owen
Duff
Smith
Geremi
Barton
Butt

All big name players, but Newcastle would do well to get rid of all of them come summer time whether they stay up or not as it just isn't working for them. So no i'd disagree Fulham & Wigan are better.

But are they **** are is it managements fault?

Xavi6

anonymous_joe wrote: »

But there's no guarentee of a new board. Lots of billionaires are now merely millionaires. Mike Ashley's lost a phenomenal amount of money, the interest in buying a loss making asset like a football club is greatly reduced.

I know that, which is why the equation I put up had 'new owner' in it.

It's all dependent on that, otherwise they're fecked.

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

I know that, which is why the equation I put up had 'new owner' in it.

It's all dependent on that, otherwise they're fecked.

Ah fair enough.

I'd put my money on the 'they're fecked' option.

invincibleirish

JPA wrote: »

But are they **** are is it managements fault?

50/50 i suppose, Keegan signed some duds, the owners let him do so and they have had a lot of bad luck i guess. For me it all stems from letting go of Sir Bobby a few years ago, they've been paying the price for that short term thinking ever since.

Either way Newcastle need to stay up and lose the deadwood. The spectre of Leeds must haunt Ashleys dreams.

Still think they'll beat Boro & get a result at VP. Owen has scored billions of goals against Villa over the years.

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

50/50 i suppose, Keegan signed some duds, the owners let him do so and they have had a lot of bad luck i guess. For me it all stems from letting go of Sir Bobby a few years ago, they've been paying the price for that short term thinking ever since.

Either way Newcastle need to stay up and lose the deadwood. The spectre of Leeds must haunt Ashleys dreams.

Still think they'll beat Boro & get a result at VP. Owen has scored billions of goals against Villa over the years.

Keegan was not in charge of transfers. Newcastle fans keep saying that over and over again.

invincibleirish

Oh yip i forgot that Wise was DoF or some such, but as i say sacking Robson & hiring Souness then Glenn Roeder was the beginning for Newcastle of the long path to where they are now.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

I know that, which is why the equation I put up had 'new owner' in it.

It's all dependent on that, otherwise they're fecked.

Ashley couldn't get a buyer for them as a PL team, who the feck would touch them as a floundering Championship side?

JPA

invincibleirish wrote: »

Oh yip i forgot that Wise was DoF or some such, but as i say sacking Robson & hiring Souness then Glenn Roeder was the beginning for Newcastle of the long path to where they are now.

I 100% believe it is all Mike Ashley that has Newcastle where they are now.

M5

Ok as a Newcastle fan had to correct a few things,

1. Allardyce was absolutely terrible as Newcastle, delighted when he got sacked. In 2 of the last 4 home games we did not register a shot on target. We had won 2 out of his 12 games. We started well but Allardyces complete lack of any tactical knowledge besides hoof it to the big lad and defend like fook just was not working. It took the new man 13 games to get a win! confidence and fitness were just not there at all. But allardyce is fergies pal and did a great job at Newcastle according to the sun!

2. The fans did not force anyone out of a job. The right man was not appointed at any time. Shocking appointments by a shocking management structure has us in the position we are in now, not the fans. But the sun says they did so...

3. Newcastle fans have never said that they have a god given right to win **** all lads, the sun has tho, right?

The reason we are struggling this season is the complete lack of cover we have in key areas. For example we have one left back, Also Mr Ashleys plan for the club seems to sell the best young players (milner, N'zogbia) jettison the seasoned pros (Given and Owen) and sign the likes of Nolan and R Taylor, see which direction we are going...

Newcastle desperately need stability, agreed, but the fans have NOT been the route cause. Get the right man into the job and he will be backed, and thats not AS. Also please god stop signing rubbish players for crazy money.....

M5

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

Ashley couldn't get a buyer for them as a PL team, who the feck would touch them as a floundering Championship side?

He was looking to make a profit at the time, in a recession!!!!!!!!!!!! in keeping with what we have see so far, clueless

M5

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well, I think it's fairly apparent that Shearer hasn't gone in there with a plan, he's tested three or four different formations in three or four games. Off the top of my head I can think of 3-5-2, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2. What he should have done was find one modern tactic, and stuck to it. I mean, 3-5-2, what is this Euro 96? Italia 90? Anachronistic tactics for the win! Let's break out the W-M while we're at it, Newcastle could do with an old-fashioned inside right and left. :rolleyes:


Joey 'Cigar to the face!' Barton's reputation is well earned. I somehow doubt he'll be able to shake it off, especially when he does things like this.

3-5-2, nothing to do with having 3 fit defenders has it????

Shearer brought in to try and lift some of the gloom around the club, nothing more. The Dowie appointment kinda makes that plain to see

PS is this not a Joey Barton thread?

M5

Barton really has thrown it away alright, great potential and at city he looked like one of the better midfielders in the league. That short fuse has cost him and this is the final straw for Newcastle fans and it looks like the club have had enough too! I think he'll be sacked TBH. Its amazing that he could repay the club for backing him and standing by him like this, disgraceful lack of respect for the club, his fellow footballers and society in general by the looks of things, wonder which sucker will sign him now

TwoShedsJackson

invincibleirish wrote: »

To be fair Joey Barton isn't the complete racist, violent, skobish nasty piece of work we all know him to be, he talks some sense as well:



- Barton 1/12/2007 Perhaps the greatest fans ever could have taken some of this on board.

Or maybe they thought that for £60,000 a week he could actually play football, as opposed to getting variously sent off or sent to prison on a regular basis?

_blank_

M5 wrote: »

blah blah blah you all read it in the sun blah blah blah

Yeah, because everyone who has posted in this thread have their opinions after reading them in that rag.

Well done.

Jesus, try and make some points without resorting to stupid comments like that.

Actually, you've shown me the light.

Newcastle fans ARE the best in the world.

M5

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

Yeah, because everyone who has posted in this thread have their opinions after reading them in that rag.

Well done.

Jesus, try and make some points without resorting to stupid comments like that.

Actually, you've shown me the light.

Newcastle fans ARE the best in the world.

nice rebuttal, well done

Barton gets everything he deserves IMO, he has a horrible attitude to the game, and (if that article is true) to his team mates and manager.

He doesn't deserve a penny of what he is paid.

_blank_

My intention was not to rebut such a ridiculous post.

monkey9

Poor old Joey, he's just misunderstood is all!!!

M5

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

My intention was not to rebut such a ridiculous post.

Ridiculous and stupid right! FFS, grow up, fair point made there about the several self perpetuating myths surrounding Allardyce and the Newcastle fans which are clearly just that. Nothing to do with the paper someone reads, i could quite easily have substituted the name of any newspaper for the sun. Any Newcastle fan over the age of 14 will cringe when they hear the "best fans in the world" tag. But resorting to insults, that fixes everything i suppose

Bounty Hunter

Who will take a chance on him now? Cos id be tempted to say Newcastle will offload him on the cheap (or just cancel his contract and he will go) to some championship side willing to take the gamble cos he is clearly premiership standard as a footballer just not as a professional but who will actually give him another chance when he has already had so many many and failed too take them?

Iang87

in all said about barton i'd still rather him in my team than nicky butt to be honest.

Bounty Hunter

Ive got a friend who is a Newcastle fan and also really into FM Manager and i know its only a game but he pointed out to me recently 'its almost impossible to get Newcastle relegated in your first season in that, cos in the game the club dont have 3/4 managers in the season plus you control transfers not a fat man, a london midget and some spaniard'

I think he made a good point and tbh agree that if they had one manager Keegan/Big Sam and they were in charge of all things playing staff related like say MON is at Villa then Newcastle would not be in such a precarious position atm. but of course that is just imo.

herbieflowers

I thought they looked like they were gonna get back on track under Keegan, irrespective of some of the duds which Wise apparently brought in. If they should've stuck with anyone, it was him.

M5

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Ive got a friend who is a Newcastle fan and also really into FM Manager and i know its only a game but he pointed out to me recently 'its almost impossible to get Newcastle relegated in your first season in that, cos in the game the club dont have 3/4 managers in the season plus you control transfers not a fat man, a london midget and some spaniard'

LOL

_blank_

M5 wrote: »

LOL

What are you laughing at, the point is solid.

A stable set up would be better than the circus we've seen at Newcastle since Souness was sacked.

event

Iang87 wrote: »

in all said about barton i'd still rather him in my team than nicky butt to be honest.

at least you know nicky butt wouldnt attack you

cant say teh same about barton

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

in all said about barton i'd still rather him in my team than nicky butt to be honest.

No way, I'd rather Nicky Butt any day, he's a top professional IMO. And in comparsion to ability, Barton is not worth the extra baggage he comes with

_blank_

He's PL standard alright, some club needs to give him a "pay-as-you-play" contract.

He deserves loyalty from no-one, so can't really expect it.

Iang87

Deleted User wrote: »

No way, I'd rather Nicky Butt any day, he's a top professional IMO. And in comparsion to ability, Barton is not worth the extra baggage he comes with

ah christ man lets not go insane here barton is twice the player butt is. i wouldn't put him in any team. what is it you like about him is it his inability to pass the ball forward or his constant need to slow everything down in midfield

Bounty Hunter

Iang87 wrote: »

ah christ man lets not go insane here barton is twice the player butt is. i wouldn't put him in any team. what is it you like about him is it his inability to pass the ball forward or his constant need to slow everything down in midfield

well the ability to not be in jail or suspended for a large part of the season is one plus i see for Butt, obviously youd like better than both or a mix of both but meh you got one aging professional and one talented unprofessional midfielder

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

ah christ man lets not go insane here barton is twice the player butt is. i wouldn't put him in any team. what is it you like about him is it his inability to pass the ball forward or his constant need to slow everything down in midfield

Like I said Butt is a top PROFESSIONAL, Barton maybe a better player, but his attitude stinks and he barely impacts a game, in a good way.

mormank

clint_silver wrote: »

cant help thinking that newcastle would play a horrible brand of football, theyed have ugly players theyed be lumping it in the box but theyed still be in the PL if big sam was still there. (assuming theyre going down)

Theres 3 or 4 managers out there who know what to do to keep a team in the league. Theyll never win anything, but they know how to get results when results matter. Bruce/Allardyce/redknapp/megson. Maybe a lesson for chairmen of be careful what you wish for when trying to get a high profile lad in.

of the 4 managers you have said are great at keeping teams up havent they all been relegated!! except maybe big sam. bruce at birmingham. redknapp at west ham and megson this season...

edit to say lloyd beat me to it

Dave147

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

What are you laughing at, the point is solid.

A stable set up would be better than the circus we've seen at Newcastle since Souness was sacked.

He's probably laughing because the post is funny, it's clear why we're in such a bad position. We've been on a steady decline since Ashley took over, many bad signings, followed by a lack of solidarity in management has caused this, you can't just blame managers. The right players weren't brought in when needed, the owner's heart isn't at the club, he's only in it for the money, which hopefully he will lose.

M5

Eamon Dunphy wrote: »

What are you laughing at, the point is solid.

A stable set up would be better than the circus we've seen at Newcastle since Souness was sacked.

OMG, calm down, its funny cause its true

Yes it would be better, but Souness? took over a side that finished 5th, finished 14th, hmmmm