Star Trek 2009 - What did you think? **POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT**

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Clare_Guy wrote: »

Riiiiiiggghhhtt! So it'd be favouritism by placing the best student in the flagship of the fleet? Because she's the best student! Logical!

It's got nothing to do with it being the flagship. It's got to do with the fact that Spock was assigned to the Enterprise so it would look like favouritism if he assigned his best student to himself. Do you understand favouritism? It would look like he was favouring Uhuru when he should be treating all his students as equal. Its not that complicated of a concept.

Regardless, I got no inkling from that scene that they where romantically involved. Plus, as the event at the academy happened before Spock and Uhurus timelines where changed it doesn't account for the fact that they where not romantically involved in TOS

Goodshape

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

L31mr0d wrote: »

Regardless, I got no inkling from that scene that they where romantically involved. Plus, as the event at the academy happened before Spock and Uhurus timelines where changed it doesn't account for the fact that they where not romantically involved in TOS

Nah, I think there was a relationship going on beforehand. It's a bit of a stretch, imo, to think she just jumped on him after

Vulcan was destroyed

... and that he accepted it just as quick. Assigning the best communications officer to the flagship doesn't sound like favouritism to me, in and of itself.

Also -- at this point in time both Spock and Uhura had spent three years with and around James Kirk, so plenty of chances for things to be different from the events which occured in the original timeline. And that's not even taking into account that Kirk is hardy the only thing to have changed since the Kelvin's destruction.

Clare_Guy

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

L31mr0d wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with it being the flagship. It's got to do with the fact that Spock was assigned to the Enterprise so it would look like favouritism if he assigned his best student to himself. Do you understand favouritism? It would look like he was favouring Uhuru when he should be treating all his students as equal. Its not that complicated of a concept.

I think it's you that doesn't understand the concept?!!
How can placing the best candidate in the flagship (most important) be favouritism? You're now speculating that Spock was her only teacher in the academy!

L31mr0d wrote: »

Regardless, I got no inkling from that scene that they where romantically involved.

After Spock tells Uhuru that he hadn't assigned her because he was afraid it would be perceived as favouritism, Uhuru says something to him (I can't remember what?) and Spock immediately adopts an embarrassed look and replies, "you're assigned to the Enterprise". The look of sheepishness on Spock's face and the pleased look on Uhuru's were both shown, in my opinion, to show that they were in a relationship.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Plus, as the event at the academy happened before Spock and Uhurus timelines where changed it doesn't account for the fact that they where not romantically involved in TOS

Well seeing as TOS was set quite some time after the academy it's possible that the relationship simply "fizzled out", anyway I think Ronny Mitchell was being a bit tongue-in-cheek when he mentioned checking TOS for this relationship...

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Goodshape wrote: »

Nah, I think there was a relationship going on beforehand. It's a bit of a stretch, imo, to think she just jumped on him after

Vulcan was destroyed

... and that he accepted it just as quick. Assigning the best communications officer to the flagship doesn't sound like favouritism to me, in and of itself.

So what are you saying here, that it was known before hand that Spock was romantically involved with one of his students? and that others would view it as favouritism because they already knew he was dating Uhuru? Why didn't Kirk also know this. If it was a secret relationship Spock would of had no reason to not put Uhuru on the Enterprise, if it was an open relationship then Kirk or Bones would of known something about it. It doesn't add up.

Clare_Guy

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

L31mr0d wrote: »

So what are you saying here, that it was known before hand that Spock was romantically involved with one of his students? and that others would view it as favouritism because they already knew he was dating Uhuru? Why didn't Kirk also know this. If it was a secret relationship Spock would of had no reason to not put Uhuru on the Enterprise, if it was an open relationship then Kirk or Bones would of known something about it. It doesn't add up.

I think they had a relationship, they kept it quiet, Spock did not assign her to the Enterprise because he was worried it would look like favouring his lady, despite it not being common knowledge (the paranoid human part of him ) Uhuru called him on it coz she knew, being top of her class, no-one could accuse him of giving her preferential treatment.

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I think they had a relationship

Ok well, tbh, it can be interpreted both ways depending on how you wish to look at it. Orci and Kurtzman haven't mentioned anything about them being involved romantically in the academy, however they have said in interviews that Vulcans destruction and the revelation that his father married his mother because he loved her was the catalyst.

I'm of the opinion that Spock and Uhuru where very close friends in the academy, but after the events of this movie Uhuru openly showed her feelings for Spock and in turn Spock returned them once he realized, after speaking to his father, that he didn't need to live his life purely based on logic.

Spon Farmer

Gaz wrote: »

Fantastic movie with one exception , Wynona Ryder. That was some woeful casting, why not just use an older actress ?? She seriously bend over for some exec to get that role.

They didn't use an older actress because

Ryder was intended to feature a lot more - such as the prologue (was also meant to feature Spock's birth) plus she has a scene with a very young Spock - and they'll be on the DVD

to say her casting was "woeful" is silly

Spon Farmer

Clare_Guy wrote: »

I'm certain she said "orally" and how would he be showing favouritism if she was just like any other student?

no it "aurally" and yes

the romance pre-dates Vulcan's demise

Spon Farmer

L31mr0d wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with it being the flagship. It's got to do with the fact that Spock was assigned to the Enterprise so it would look like favouritism if he assigned his best student to himself. Do you understand favouritism? It would look like he was favouring Uhuru when he should be treating all his students as equal. Its not that complicated of a concept.

Regardless, I got no inkling from that scene that they where romantically involved. Plus, as the event at the academy happened before Spock and Uhurus timelines where changed it doesn't account for the fact that they where not romantically involved in TOS

it pretty obvious. also the

the Trekverse timeline is altered in the prologue sequence not with Vulcan's destruction

spooky donkey

"I like this ship. It's Exciting"

I have to say i loved it. Went to see it with a bunch of trekie mates and they all loved it also. One of the things that stood out for me apart from the great performances was the use of proper alien aliens. Not just get a human stick some latex on their head and make up a reace name, we have some really good alien creatuers in this movie.

Also any know know why spock crouched down to use the transporter? Did he have some fear of the tech like bones does?

Spon Farmer

L31mr0d wrote: »

So what are you saying here, that it was known before hand that Spock was romantically involved with one of his students? and that others would view it as favouritism because they already knew he was dating Uhuru? Why didn't Kirk also know this. If it was a secret relationship Spock would of had no reason to not put Uhuru on the Enterprise, if it was an open relationship then Kirk or Bones would of known something about it. It doesn't add up.

Spock was not a teacher. he was an upperclassman and instructor.
plus the Academy is huge and Kirk and Bones imo had clearly never encountered Spock until the misconduct hearing.
remember Kirk's surprise when he discovered who

the Orion girl's room-mate was

so it's likely cadets can go along time without meeting

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Spon Farmer wrote: »

it pretty obvious. also the

the Trekverse timeline is altered in the prologue sequence not with Vulcan's destruction

I know this. But I'm saying how much of an impact did this have on Spocks or Uhurus timeline? It clearly had no effect on Spocks as his childhood and reasons for joining the federation are in keeping with the Spock Primes canon. Regardless, it is a minor point, and my original post on it was more to say that Spock and Uhurus relationship is a result of the broken timeline, which I'm assuming we all agree on. Whether it began in the academy due to the timeline change or after Vulcan was destroyed doesn't change this fact.

NOGMaxpower

"Did you leave the parking brake on?"

deadly movie absolute class

Uhura is the god damn sh1t

Spon Farmer

spooky donkey wrote: »

I have to say i loved it. Went to see it with a bunch of trekie mates and they all loved it also. One of the things that stood out for me apart from the great performances was the use of proper alien aliens. Not just get a human stick some latex on their head and make up a reace name, we have some really good alien creatuers in this movie.

Also any know know why spock crouched down to use the transporter? Did he have some fear of the tech like bones does?

I think he was being cautious because the landscape he was beaming to was unstable because of the attack and it would be easier to catch onto something if already close to the ground

Spon Farmer

L31mr0d wrote: »

I know this. But I'm saying how much of an impact did this have on Spocks or Uhurus timeline? It clearly had no effect on Spocks as his childhood and reasons for joining the federation are in keeping with the Spock Primes canon. Regardless, it is a minor point, and my original post on it was more to say that Spock and Uhurus relationship is a result of the broken timeline, which I'm assuming we all agree on. Whether it began in the academy due to the timeline change or after Vulcan was destroyed doesn't change this fact.

Nero and his men time traveled and occupied a place in space-time they were not meant to be in. they killed Captain Robau, George Kirk and several others who were meant to live longer.
the Kelvin was destroyed and 800 survivors had their lives changed forever. then there is the countless lives that where changed by those 800 peoples destinies altering. that's one big damn ripple in time

chrussell

Did anyone else notice when kirk, sulu and the engineer were doing their space jump, that the engineer was wearing a red jumpsuit and dies straight away??? I thought this a great part of the movie, when i seen him getting into the shuttle in the red I knew he was dead. A throwback to TOS when the extras who wore red uniforms and traditionally die... Nice work JJ

Once again I loved it, and my star trek hating friend that I dragged along loved it too

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Spon Farmer wrote: »

that's one big damn ripple in time

Yes. Like I said, I know this already. I'm not talking about this fictional universe and what you are speculating has changed on the timeline due to the events in the prologue, I'm talking about the story that Orci and Kurtzman wrote and how they intended it to be understood.

If I remember from TOS, Uhura made advances towards Spock on a few occasions but he didn't respond to them romantically ever. The turning point in this movie in the relationship was after Spocks father revealed his love for his mother, it is after this that we see him kissing Uhura. Saying they had a physical relationship in the academy is pure speculation, so I'm going on what is actually shown in the movie itself.

Goodshape

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

L31mr0d wrote: »

so I'm going on what is actually shown in the movie itself.

That's the thing -- I think this film showed that they did have a relationship. Otherwise, I'd have to conclude that either Uhura is an awful bitch for taking advantage of Spock at his most vulnerable, or the film simply failed in it's attempt to show the actual origins of this relationship ("oh, you're having a hard time? Let's all of a sudden snuggle up and hold each other and act like we've been intimate for ages!")

I think the

destruction of Vulcan and Spocks conversation with Sarak re: his mother

was a turning point in that it gave Spock 'permission' to bring the romance out into the open.



P.S. What a silly thing to be arguing about

Spon Farmer

Goodshape wrote: »

P.S. What a silly thing to be arguing about

yes, but it's either that or work:D

besides

when she chewed his face in the turbolift it clearly wasn't the first time

spooky donkey

"I like this ship. It's Exciting"

Yes Spon I think you are right but I think the relationship may have been out in the open before that. Why else would spock assigning uhura to the enterprise be seen as favrotism if they were not known to be a bit of an item.

Oh and on the spock crouching perhaps they thought it would make him look cooler.

robby^5

"I like this ship. It's Exciting"

Loved every minute of it, easily one of the best Star Trek films ever made and a brilliant film in it's own right.

I thought having this film retcon the entire franchise and start anew on a clean slate was entirely necessary if Star Trek is to survive. We reached saturation point with Enterprise, Star Trek was becoming ever more inaccessible to newcomers and it was killing the franchise.

The Next Generation was the only series that really carried the torch for Star Trek. It was a brilliant piece of television and stood on it's own two feet, there was no requirement to have ever seen any Star Trek to enjoy that show which is exactly what this film has accomplished, while still rewarding long-time viewers. TNG had changed Trek enough to make it fresh again. Everything proceeding The Next Generation, was just pandering to already established trekkies.

Star Trek had written itself into a dead end with Voyager and Enterprise (time travel blah blah temporal cold war) so I can see why they wouldn't want to set any more Trek series/films any further along in it's own timeline. I forgive them for using it in this film however as the story works far better than most of the time travel stories in Star Trek and it was a necessary plot device, they needed a way to show that these are the basically the same characters, but their future isn't already written. So we're left with a new take on Star Trek and all I can say is bring on the sequel.

Spon Farmer

spooky donkey wrote: »

Oh and on the spock crouching perhaps they thought it would make him look cooler.

it did:D

chamlis

I really enjoyed this, but I have to admit that I feel the whole

alternate timeline

storyline was completely unnecessary. This could have been a regular origins movie without

wiping the slate clean. They could have done another few movies with younger cast leading upto beginning of TOS

.

Like the "Kirkless Generations" fanedit of Generations, I wonder if in the future there will be an

"Oldman Spok-less Star Trek"

fanedit?

Klingon Hamlet

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

Plot was a little threadbare. Effects were top-notch. All the characters were well-served. Excellent acting. Nero was criminally neutered in the film (Klingon Prison Break was cut, damn.) Kirk was better than the Shat (go on, fie phasers at me hardcore Trekkies, it's all IMHO.) Pacing was a bit off. Too many lens flares. A lot of good will brought by the actors. Spock was a little unsettling---intentional. Loved Pike---need to see more (or can we?)

What will they call the second/twelfth film?

chamlis

omg the lensflares!

nyarlothothep

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Dare I say it but I wasn't that impressed in certain respects. The pacing was way too fast, it was like Star Trek on ecstasy. Everything happened at warp speed (pardon the pun). The characterization was decent for Spock. Kirk was a total asshole in this film and turns Spock into his bitch. How am I meant to sympathize with the protagonist when he mocks a star fleet commander with way more expertise and wisdom after his mother and almost his entire species is killed. Yes yes, I know, Spock told him to do it, but still, there could have been another way to bump him up to captaincy.

Which brings us to the promotions system. Is starfleet on crack?! Kirk, a cadet, randomly gets assigned as first officer, then becomes captain. Wtf!!!! Seriously, the only thing I can say in defense of this is that the film seems to realize the ridiculousness of the situation it puts forward, as shown by Spocks confusion when Kirk is appointed first officer.

Kirk for this entire film, willfully neglects procedure, gets into brawls, cheats and generally acts like an ass. He's Dennis the Menace in space. Does starfleet have any standards. I mean seriously, drunken brawl and then Pike says, yeah we need more people like you, we need more people who don't show any restraint and act on impulse. Yeah thats really good criteria for recruiting people into your flagship humanitarian federation, people who don't stop to consider the consequences of their actions. :rolleyes:

Wtf is red matter. The science plot is like what a five year old would write. How did the star ships go through the black hole without being destroyed? Yes we have to come up with ways to explain this away. Uh oh bad writing. And at the end they offer to assist the Romulans, Romulans conveniently say no and they blow the sh1t out of them. I think, more in keeping with the spirit of Trek they could have helped them out.

However by and large I don't like Star Trek movies that much. Most of them are pretty stupid and vacuous, lacking the intelligent subtexts of the series, with the exclusion of say TUC, TMP. So in the grand scale of things I would rank this film no.3. TUC remains for me the best star trek film ever. No.2 would be First Contact or Generations, mostly because I like TNG and out of nostalgia.

This film is popcorn fun, it appeals to the widest demographic, but I think it suffers because of this. Its all crash bang wallop. There's no time for reflection and the end message, that acting on feelings rather than rational decisions is so American and dumb, because at the end of the day I will trust anyone who makes a rationally thought out choice rather than someone who does what they feel is right. In fact I think the message would have been better if they had mixed it up a little bit, to act rationally and with feeling, that would be a message I would agree with, but the one put forward is almost irresponsible because you can justify any action based on feeling.

In the films defence the FX is beautiful, its the best I've seen in a film to date, the ship designs are genius. It also has one of the best beginnings of any film. Kirks birth scene is so apt and the fact that yes, rock music still exists in the Star Trek universe. The combination of wit and the undertone of not taking things too seriously gave the film a Peter F. Hamilton feel. I like the little homages to TOS, in the respect that everything ends up being a fist fight, the guy in the red suit dying, sulu mentioning his combat training etc. Simon Pegg comes across as the Jar Jar Binks of the proceedings but through sheer charisma manages to overcome the writing for his part and lends credibility to the film. The actors perform admirably. At certain points I was reminded of the original crew which was kind of sad in a way in the respect that no one but those actors will ever play the roles as well, an example is when Kirk says Bones in a shatner esque way.

The film imo also has some parallels to Red Dwarf though it achieves its goal much more artfully and with greater subtlety. . If there is a philosophical message to be found in this film, its that of Star Treks quest for its own identity. Spock essentially serves to give his blessing to the new voyages of the Enterprise, its a re-writing of history to give a new beginning, but within the confines of a confined sequence of events which at least have some semblance of connectivity.

So I think this film is both good and bad. The pace is way too frantic, like someone shouting at you really fast for two hours. Its like a Dragonforce album, lots of pretty thing happening, breathtaking but completely exhausting and leaving one in confusion thinking what the hell?! There could have been more characterization, with respect to the bads guys who came off completely one dimensional. Take note Abrams/scriptwriters, look at Robocop-Clarence Bodicker or Heath Ledgers Joker for good villainy. Also Bones' character was a goldmine waiting to be developed but it didn't come to pass. The promotions system is ludicrous, I'll let that pass though. There could have been more depth. Apart from that it was fun, explosive and ambitious in scale, it was also a respectful tribute to the Star Trek legacy and for what its meant to be, a revamping of Star Trek, a kind of Star Trek version of Star Wars (1977), its perfect. The exposition and dialogue can wait for the second film.

I'll give this film 7/10 and will probably watch it again, it has good and bad elements but the good manages to transcend the bad enough to make it above average. Does anyone else notice how Spocks ship actually looks very similar to the ship on the front cover of one of the Gap books by Stephen Donaldson? Cool design.

Goodshape

"You will always be a child of two worlds"

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Wtf is red matter.

It might not appease everyone but I think that's really part of Abrams style -- a lot of 'stuff' going on in the background. Why spend ten minutes explaining something like red matter (and that's just one example) with impenetrable techno-babble when you can just get on with the story/action/whatever. Leave the audience to assume that there's an explanation out there somewhere... rather than have them nit-pick your dodgy science.

They needed to create a blackhole for time-travel... I don't think we really needed an explanation of how this made up substance actually worked in this made up world. (It's just a plot device, really).

L31mr0d

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Too many lens flares.

lol, I assumed this was just JJ paying homage to the original movies. Although it was overused, to the point where it was noticable.

In regards to the red matter I completely just wrote off that whole future sequence as throw away, so much about it didn't make sense. Why did Spock have so much red matter? Also, can someone remind me, didn't Spock say the supernova threathened the galaxy... how big was this star

Some nice touchs I did like, like the origin of Bones name and also the origin of the whistle sound Kirk used in the TOS when he's sending out a general announcement on the enterprise.

nyarlothothep

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

Goodshape wrote: »

It might not appease everyone but I think that's really part of Abrams style -- a lot of 'stuff' going on in the background. Why spend ten minutes explaining something like red matter (and that's just one example) with impenetrable techno-babble when you can just get on with the story/action/whatever. Leave the audience to assume that there's an explanation out there somewhere... rather than have them nit-pick your dodgy science.

They needed to create a blackhole for time-travel... I don't think we really needed an explanation of how this made up substance actually worked in this made up world. (It's just a plot device, really).

but one of the integral parts of sci fi is to create an aura of credibility so that you can go along with it. Granted 99% of sci fi is on dodgy ground when you come to the actual science of it, eg Predator and the mud trick, but when you just blatantly invoke magic solutions it becomes completely unbelievable and its much more difficult to get absorbed in the universe. This didn't happen particularly with the movie as it was entertaining enough to overcome this but the plot contrivances were very simplistic imo in the wrong way. They were on the right track in not explaining everything but they should have done some research, you know, and just incorporate whatever theory was the most plausible into it, no one would know the difference.

nyarlothothep

"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence"

L31mr0d wrote: »

lol, I assumed this was just JJ paying homage to the original movies. Although it was overused, to the point where it was noticable.

In regards to the red matter I completely just wrote off that whole future sequence as throw away, so much about it didn't make sense. Why did Spock have so much red matter? Also, can someone remind me, didn't Spock say the supernova threathened the galaxy... how big was this star

Some nice touchs I did like, like the origin of Bones name and also the origin of the whistle sound Kirk used in the TOS when he's sending out a general announcement on the enterprise.

yes that was another thing that stood out about the supernova. Also wouldn't the Romulans have a least some forewarning if their star was about to go nova??? I mean if they've mastered warp surely they're going to know the lifespan of their own star. However this could be the opportunity to formulate a plot for the second film, perhaps in Spocks timeframe some conspiratorial enemy of the Romulans/alpha quadrant has a star busting device and the resultant energy released would threaten entire galaxies.