I think boards.ie, needs an union.

bonkey

faceman wrote: »

What if people arent happy with the union?

Then you'd need an ombudsman...and maybe a choice of unions.

Dudess

mysterious wrote: »

Let's dicuss. It seems that the "helpdesk" role is to "champion" the mods "all the time"

Well it's not.

I thought a lovely feedback thread for all the people who contribute to boards should have their freedom of speech, "elaborated"

What freedom of speech? Is this a government website? No, it's private, so there is no freedom of speech.

I know mods hate the idea of a union.

Really? News to me, as a mod. There are hundreds of mods, all very different people - maybe it would be a good idea not to tar them all with one brush?

But we need balance, incase some of you mods have never heard of that word.

Yeah, mods are out to prevent balance because they've got a big, evil agenda going on...

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Posters are not allowed to give support on Helpdesk threads

Neither are any mods who aren't involved in the case at hand...

I find the inconsistencies in the Bannings a bit rich tho in the CT Forum.

some posters get a 6 month ban for takin the bait in a heated debate, other posters just roll in make sarcastic insults and personal attacks and get Infracted and asked please dont do it again, even tho we all know they will.

Surely the person who got the six-month ban was already on thin ice?
And don't you consider it ironic for you to be remarking on heavyhanded banning when you are still here, despite all the abuse/offensive comments you've thrown around in the past?

mysterious wrote: »

I'm only concerned that there is a lack of balance on this website towards bullying and mods throwing their wands about, its getting wreckless imo.

Look, the VAST majority of cases where the complainant was being whingey, unreasonable, snide, making insinuations etc were ones where the complainant was definitely in the wrong. I may be a moderator (of a low-traffic forum) but that doesn't suddenly make me "blind" to any questionable behaviour by other mods, and really I've seen an absolutely negligable amount. And that margin of error is bound to exist because moderators are humans, not robots... and they are volunteers, not professionals.
Plus, frankly, you don't get a full idea of the point of view of a moderator... until you're a moderator. That may come across as condescending, but I think it's reasonable, seeing as I was a user for years before I became a moderator.

It seems that members are lower in ranks in every right in the above sense towards the people.

No it doesn't. If I insult someone in any of the forums I don't moderate, I will have my ass banned.

You all have to remember, without the people, mods and all the super mods, would be nothing. Lets just remember that people.

Oh Jesus wept... you're going all Che Guevara on mods' asses now. For ****'s sake... You want to be taken seriously - first recommendation: I'd say refrain from melodramatic nonsense like the above. "The people" whom you're referring to are Boards.ie members. You know what you have to be before you become a mod? A member. So bear in mind mods were members too. You'd swear they just sail onto Boards.ie as moderators.

This allows greater perceptual and balanced views in order to deal with conflicts. not mod vs peasant.

LOL at your persecution complex...

mysterious wrote: »

For example,in my last feedback thread on an issue, that was pretty pretty public, was moved to helpdesk. So the mods could gang up on me, and me slipping around my bath.

Yeah sure... that's the reason it was moved to Help Desk...

The current "lets bully the user" cough help desk system in place means, that the user cannot defend his place. Literally I find this astonishing, since we are now in 2009. like.

Yes, admins sat down and decided "let's have a system that bullies the user" - and what on earth does the current year have to do with anything?
In actual fact, many people (myself included) were concerned about people with legitimate grievances and voicing them reasonably being ganged up on in Feedback, just because... it was Feedback, hence Help Desk being the new port of call. But now this is a problem because it doesn't allow all members to dive in. Damned if do, damned if don't...

mysterious wrote: »

You've made the point yourself.... you vs me, can we get off it. member vs mods. all mods vs the member. This is not balance, and in your case holds the same water.

Well you're the one who keeps making the "mods are superior, we're just minions" comments.

the victim can defend his her place

LOL

mysterious wrote: »

at any given conflict, it seems that all the mods on that forum stick together to defend each other against the one person.
I've had a bagillion emails saying my treatment was harsh and uncalled for, but I cant do nothing about it

Ever consider that's because the mods in question agree with each other, not simply because they're a "clique" and "out to get you"? I love the way there is a genuine view that mods have a love-in with each other and devise various campaigns to bully, just because... they're mods.
As I said, you've a different perspective when you're moderating and stuff that might seem harsh when you're a member looks far more reasonable when you're a moderator. There are mods who know each other, there are friend groups (as in any walk of life)... however I'm not a member of any clique and I've never met a mod in real life, so I'm telling you: mods don't simply stick together because they're mods. Also, there are mods whom I cannot stand, as well as mods who cannot stand me.

the witnesses cant do nothing about it, the masses cant do nothing about it, the people cant give their views.

Don't you think you're putting a discussion website on a bit too much of a pedestal by likening it to a tyrannical regime? And I could be wrong, but I thought "witnesses" could take part if they sent a private message to a site

meditraitor wrote: »

Even though I used to really enjoy the whole mod ganging up on unfortunate user situation

Wow... when it was undeserved and the unfortunate user was being reasonable and their concern was a reasonable one (even if I didn't always agree with it) the sight of them being ganged up on... well I found it a rather grim one actually.

I'm being quite hostile to mysterious here because of his/her constant snide remarks, generalisations, insinuations etc - that's not being reasonable.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

See there is the problem there, you see anyone who isnt a mod as a victim.

Forgetting anyone else on the forum in question, have you broken the rules of the forum on more than one occassion?

Your well able to play the victim yourself. it's probably why your attracted to this forum;) "oh I better get in a word to defend my case"

Cough cough... you make me laugh.


6th you are very choosy on who you think is out of line and who isn't as someone else said, there were abuse gunning at me from at least 5 posters, and I holded my chune long enough

King mob was rediculing others as been silly on the previous thread, I called that as been close minded.

As a mod, your not fit for the job as others have said. As ive said on my previous thread, you literally gun at me to say a fraction of syllabal wrong to ban me. That's the blunt truth.

There has been countless emails, complaints already about you, with my banning.

Your behaviour is replicate of the last time I was banned. Everyone was off topic, And others were asking me off topic questions, yet you come on like goderatator that you call yourself. ban me.

6th your behaviour is bullying.

As already said on the C.T forum, people are not happy about your behaviour on the issue. There are many people not happy with you as a mod, as you constantly do nothing to the forum but march around like goderator....

it's actually a joke.

Nerin

if ever there was a time for old feedback habits...

mysterious

bonkey wrote: »

Helpdesk isn't all mods vs. the member.

There are the panel of "judges" who run Helpdesk, the person making the complaint, and the person or people complained about.

The notion of "witnesses" generally doesn't come into it. The actions are what are being adjudicated. Whether or not someone else thinks you were hard done by doesn't change the actions in question. It is not a "court of public opinion", nor, in my opinion, should it be.

I can think of some cases where an issue may involve more than one user, and all involved members would like to be able to put their case, and I would imagine that in such a case, the Helpdesk admins would allow those users their say.

Oh i think witnesses should be allowed just look at the people on your forum complaining, they can't, they have to be ganged up by

AKA HELP DESK BEEF ME UP MODERATORS FORUM.

thats what helpdesk is.

It's perfect for people in your position. It represents the moderators, as all moderators seem to stick together, as they would on their forum, against the user with the issue complaint.

You and 6th are an example, you both side against me.

I don't like that it smells kind of unbalanced and unrealistic.


2vs1 Not happy with this current layout, then its like any moderator can come to helpdesk and gang up on the user, no witnesses, know dicernment and no balance.

I think alot of people here are wish washing around my actual point.


Why?

bonkey

Getting back to the original idea of a union for a second...

Here's the problem that I see...

A "union" would perhaps have merit in the sense of having some sort of "user spokesperson" who could also weigh in on issues. This, however, leads to problems of its own. If their job is to always side with the users, regardless of who is in teh wrong or the right of it, then it just means there's a second poster saying "yeah...the mod was wrong".

If, on the other hand, their job is to see that the user gets a fair hearing...well...thats the job that the Helpdesk already serves. Naturally, when people don't get the result they want, they may feel the system is at fault, but there's not much can be done there.

I can't see what other purpose some sort of "union" would have. Feedback as a "court of public opinion" may have made some people feel good (when they all got to shout about a problem - real or perceived - together) on occasion, but it also generated an awful lot of apathy with people complaining that there was no point complaining because no-one took anything seriously, and just used it as a forum to point-and-laugh.

The system isn't perfect. There are improvements which can be made. Improvements are almost-constantly being discussed, but it takes time to find ideas that really look to be practical and workable. It involves, amongst a lot of other things, bashing an idea to hell and back to see if it stands up to it. If it doesn't, then it hasn't got a hope against the fullly operational deathstar that is boards.ie

humanji

mysterious wrote: »

Your behaviour is replicate of the last time I was banned. Everyone was off topic, And others were asking me off topic questions, yet you come on like goderatator that you call yourself. ban me.

Everyone was off topic. Everyone was told to stay on topic. Everyone else did so. You refused to go back on topic. You argued with a mod in thread.

If it wasn't your first time, you'd probably get a slap on the hand. But since you've been banned several times before, and continually break the rules, why should you get off lightly when everyone else would get punished? Why should rules not apply to you? Why are you so special?

Nerin

you know mysterious, you should really go away, think about the union idea, then come back and try explain it again when it isnt yet another (badly) veiled attack on the CT mods...

6th

Thanks Mysterious Seriously, we should hang out.

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

Everyone was off topic. Everyone was told to stay on topic. Everyone else did so. You refused to go back on topic. You argued with a mod in thread.

If it wasn't your first time, you'd probably get a slap on the hand. But since you've been banned several times before, and continually break the rules, why should you get off lightly when everyone else would get punished? Why should rules not apply to you? Why are you so special?

oh noooo i didn't,

He didn't, he just came on and said basically like this.

Oy you, get back on topic or your banned. im goderator.

No way am i going to feel threatened and allowed to be treated like that by anyone. He did not tell others, he threatened at first hand and singled everyone out.

K-9 asked me about flouride, we talked about it, everyone was talking about it, Goderator has a personal issue with me as we all know:rolleyes:

Got his childish ways out.

I didn't intervene, I replied in a shock and amazement of my treatment by him.

Well What do we know, didnt i say it on helpdesk, it will happen again here we are. YET again. the same old song plays, the mods said your bad and your bad, smack smack. I cannot respect this, it just is not acceptable treatment. The amount of people saying that I'm a great contributer to the forum tells a lot. I post my beleifs, thoughts, facts and stances to the forum. A hell of a lot more than 6th I can tell you.

I'm sick and tired of his abuse.

Something is not right. but hey.


Did you know that someone actually insulted my relationship with my family on the forum basically a sheer personal disgusting insult to hurt my desceased relative in public view, and i reported it and 6th ignored it. "he does the oh get back on topic bull****" its amazing isn't it. but it took a week of abuse to actually say a teeny word wrong and your banned, King mobs actions were close minded, as he was directing his ignorance towards me, where is the mods balance and intervention here, oh wait i see, 6th like his childish ways of bullying people he hates and championing the ones he love..... he just tells other's to cool it, but when im doing my best im expected to be perfect despite having maybe 5/6 people throwin abuse at me at first hand. they just get the old ol lads cool it now. Doesnt reallly how offensive it is, mysterious just dont ever say a word wrong, you should be perfect.

Its not acceptable, and helpdesk is not going to sort it, ive said it before, as 6th and Bonkey dance around each other to defend each otehr. Its beyond childish.

But on helpdesk, you might aswell swim around the bath and drown.

Still not good enough.

staker

I give Boards.ie an union

http://ladyfi.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/yellow_onion1.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist:D

stovelid

I'm with you OP and support your right to industrial action. Why don't you place a picket on your computer for the rest of the year and report back in 2010 about how you get on.

mysterious

While all the mods stand in a circle now and hold hands,


Can I just ask, is there any outlet on boards.ie, that actually repsresents the rights of the user?


Seriously, like actual a balance team where issues with the user can be dealt with properly. Rather than this Mod vs user balony and all other mods coming to the aid of mods.

Is there not an outlet on this website, that has a union where there can be a medium to go to,where you feel your treatment was infair in a helpdesk thread.

Alot of people are embarressing themselves already on this thread.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

Thanks Mysterious Seriously, we should hang out.

but i would get a perma ban wouldn't I?

I'm not as perfect as Goderatoors,

javaboy

mysterious wrote: »

Mod vs user balony

You said it.

6th

mysterious wrote: »

Can I just ask, is there any outlet on boards.ie, that actually repsresents the rights of the user?


Seriously, like actual a balance team where issues with the user can be dealt with properly. Rather than this Mod vs user balony and all other mods coming to the aid of mods.

Yeah, Help Desk.

mysterious wrote: »

Alot of people are embarressing themselves already on this thread.

Dont worry about it, sure you've just gone on a rampage of personal insults about me but you can subscribe and requests a name change. People will forget, I promise.

Btw (off topic) I'm holding a paranormal investigation this weekend, I can hold a place for you and give you a lift?

mysterious

Nerin wrote: »

you know mysterious, you should really go away, think about the union idea, then come back and try explain it again when it isnt yet another (badly) veiled attack on the CT mods...

Well in that case, can we deal with it without the C.T mods in it, as it abvious 6th is going to continue his arrogance.

I want to this idea to be worked, for fairness and balance.

Oryx

mysterious wrote: »

While all the mods stand in a circle now and hold hands,


Can I just ask, is there any outlet on boards.ie, that actually repsresents the rights of the user?


Seriously, like actual a balance team where issues with the user can be dealt with properly. Rather than this Mod vs user balony and all other mods coming to the aid of mods.

Is there not an outlet on this website, that has a union where there can be a medium to go to,where you feel your treatment was infair in a helpdesk thread.

Alot of people are embarressing themselves already on this thread.

Muhuh. You started it.

Im not a mod, but you know what? Im on their side here. You see conspiracy and the need for a union here. I see a poster with a grudge who will not let it go.

This place is great, if you know the rules and stay within them. No, its not a democracy, its a privately owned website. So they are allowed to have whatever rules they like and if you dont like em, sorry, but thats tough. The helpdesk is the place where the people who run the site and make the rules will listen to you if you feel you have been wronged. They have been *shock horror* known to agree with ordinary posters. Their interest is not defending the mods, its to see if you do have a case.

A 'union' of sorts would be a nice idea in an ideal world, but if youre around long enough to have witnessed the earlier incarnation of feedback, youll see that a 'union' of ordinary posters can easily become a mob, which in spite of what you seem to feel, might just work against, instead of for you.

6th

But i'm not a mod in this forum, I'm a user just like you. We're like brothers here. I call top bunk!

humanji

mysterious wrote: »

oh noooo i didn't,

He didn't, he just came on and said basically like this.

Oy you, get back on topic or your banned. im goderator.

No way am i going to feel threatened and allowed to be treated like that by anyone. He did not tell others, he threatened at first hand and singled everyone out.

K-9 asked me about flouride, we talked about it, everyone was talking about it, Goderator has a personal issue with me as we all know:rolleyes:

Got his childish ways out.

I didn't intervene, I replied in a shock and amazement of my treatment by him.

Well What do we know, didnt i say it on helpdesk, it will happen again here we are. YET again. the same old song plays, the mods said your bad and your bad, smack smack. I cannot respect this, it just is not acceptable treatment. The amount of people saying that I'm a great contributer to the forum tells a lot. I post my beleifs, thoughts, facts and stances to the forum. A hell of a lot more than 6th I can tell you.

I'm sick and tired of his abuse.

Something is not right. but hey.


Did you know that someone actually insulted my relationship with my family on the forum basically a sheer personal disgusting insult to hurt my desceased relative in public view, and i reported it and 6th ignored it. "he does the oh get back on topic bull****" its amazing isn't it. but it took a week of abuse to actually say a teeny word wrong and your banned, King mobs actions were close minded, as he was directing his ignorance towards me, where is the mods balance and intervention here, oh wait i see, 6th like his childish ways of bullying people he hates and championing the ones he love..... he just tells other's to cool it, but when im doing my best im expected to be perfect despite having maybe 5/6 people throwin abuse at me at first hand. they just get the old ol lads cool it now. Doesnt reallly how offensive it is, mysterious just dont ever say a word wrong, you should be perfect.

Its not acceptable, and helpdesk is not going to sort it, ive said it before, as 6th and Bonkey dance around each other to defend each otehr. Its beyond childish.

But on helpdesk, you might aswell swim around the bath and drown.

Still not good enough.

Go back through every post you've ever made on the CT forum. Count how many times you've been told to get back on topic. Count how many times you've been told to stop insulting people. Count how many times you've been told to stop arguing with a mod on thread. Count how many times you've been told that if you don't stop breaking the rules, you'll be banned.

If someone breaks the charter on that forum, they're dealt with. If they're like you, and refuse to obey the charter, they get infracted and then banned. You are not the victim. Every other user of the forum is a victim of your continued disruption.

On the Helpdesk, you make your grievance known. If it's against a mod, they're given access to state their version. Those in charge of that forum can look at any relevant posts. There is no need for witnesses, and there's no need for a rent a row group to fill the threads with noise.

The admins want this site to be popular. A mod causing trouble will drive people away and the admins will come down on them like a ton of bricks. They are not on the mods side and they are not on your side. They are on the side of the site.

If you have a case, it'll stand up.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

Yeah, Help Desk.



Dont worry about it, sure you've just gone on a rampage of personal insults about me but you can subscribe and requests a name change. People will forget, I promise.

Btw (off topic) I'm holding a paranormal investigation this weekend, I can hold a place for you and give you a lift?

6th if yo have a problem take it too "helpdesk"

I didn't insult you, remember I said earlier you will now play the victim.

Maybe you should seriously get off my case.

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

Go back through every post you've ever made on the CT forum. Count how many times you've been told to get back on topic. Count how many times you've been told to stop insulting people. Count how many times you've been told to stop arguing with a mod on thread. Count how many times you've been told that if you don't stop breaking the rules, you'll be banned.

If someone breaks the charter on that forum, they're dealt with. If they're like you, and refuse to obey the charter, they get infracted and then banned. You are not the victim. Every other user of the forum is a victim of your continued disruption.

but its still unbalanced. everyone was off topic i got the heat cus I stand up for myself, alot of people can't stand my strong views, as 6th has always shown biased threatment towards me, I dont get banned from other forums, ive been on here years. I can take responsibility for my behaviour, I can also admit for being out of line. I also to have to give myself credit in saying I'm not perfect.

And thats the problem some mods have and some narrow minded people have. It's just not balanced in my view.

But having said that most people want me on that forum, I cant be there if I have a mod drumming at me all the time. I'm on many forums on this site, I dont get banned.

On the Helpdesk, you make your grievance known. If it's against a mod, they're given access to state their version. Those in charge of that forum can look at any relevant posts. There is no need for witnesses, and there's no need for a rent a row group to fill the threads with noise.

If its' against a mod, its more than likely the mods will stick up for that mods, and the mods of the forum to stick up for them also.

The admins want this site to be popular. A mod causing trouble will drive people away and the admins will come down on them like a ton of bricks. They are not on the mods side and they are not on your side. They are on the side of the site.

If you have a case, it'll stand up.

I know, which is why I told them to pay attention to the site, for my intial reason, but geeeeeeeeee.

Think someone is going to have use dicernment.


Yes they are on the mods side, the mods on the forum will always stick up for their mod. It leaves the user slipping in a bath as I would put.

Beruthiel

mysterious wrote: »

Your well able to play the victim yourself. it's probably why your attracted to this forum;) "oh I better get in a word to defend my case"

Cough cough... you make me laugh.


6th you are very choosy on who you think is out of line and who isn't as someone else said, there were abuse gunning at me from at least 5 posters, and I holded my chune long enough

King mob was rediculing others as been silly on the previous thread, I called that as been close minded.

As a mod, your not fit for the job as others have said. As ive said on my previous thread, you literally gun at me to say a fraction of syllabal wrong to ban me. That's the blunt truth.

There has been countless emails, complaints already about you, with my banning.

Your behaviour is replicate of the last time I was banned. Everyone was off topic, And others were asking me off topic questions, yet you come on like goderatator that you call yourself. ban me.

6th your behaviour is bullying.

As already said on the C.T forum, people are not happy about your behaviour on the issue. There are many people not happy with you as a mod, as you constantly do nothing to the forum but march around like goderator....

it's actually a joke.

Well, as this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic you started, I assume you've finished.

DeVore

On the contrary Ruthie, I think it probably has everything to do with why he started this thread. :rolleyes:


just when we were starting to think Feedback would become about the site and not, well, this.... Muffler jinxed us.

DeV.