Demons Souls

F1ngers

Noticed last night when I was loading up, one of the screens announced its 1 year anniversary and the worlds will be black for Valentines.

Don't know if it's for the weekend or just the day itself.

This is for the ASIAN version of the game.

noodler

F1ngers wrote: »

Noticed last night when I was loading up, one of the screens announced its 1 year anniversary and the worlds will be black for Valentines.

Don't know if it's for the weekend or just the day itself.

Brilliant news, cheers.

Really enjoyed the all white world at Xmas and will take this opportunity to make some more progress.

GothPunk

Dengeki magazine's podcast have hinted at a game to be released 'Fall 2010' which people on NeoGAF think could be Demon's Souls 2. Dengeki mention an unannounced sequel to a game which came out last year, which they describe the game as 'challenging and extremely hard, with very "interesting" gameplay systems'. Sounds like Demon's Souls to me.

noodler

GothPunk wrote: »

Dengeki magazine's podcast have hinted at a game to be released 'Fall 2010' which people on NeoGAF think could be Demon's Souls 2. Dengeki mention an unannounced sequel to a game which came out last year, which they describe the game as 'challenging and extremely hard, with very "interesting" gameplay systems'. Sounds like Demon's Souls to me.

Negative Nellie here.

Would be wary of them rushing a sequel out to soon and would also feel there is no way the sequel could have the same impact as the original. DS was refreshingly hard but another game may lack the novelty value.

Of course, maybe they will make it more accessible. More net features could make it interesting - I know no mic support was a nice touch for the game's atmosphere but imagine invading another person's world and just saying "I am coming for you" or "you don't know where I am" in a menacing voice every couple of minutes.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

I know no mic support was a nice touch for the game's atmosphere but imagine invading another person's world and just saying "I am coming for you" or "you don't know where I am" in a menacing voice every couple of minutes.

Well there's the other end of the of the argument with someone invading your world shouting out 'I'm gonna rape you (racial slur beginning with N and sexist slur beginning with F) and teabagging you when you die. Anyway nobody uses mics on PSN.

smooch71

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyway nobody uses mics on PSN.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

smooch71

GothPunk wrote: »

Dengeki magazine's podcast have hinted at a game to be released 'Fall 2010' which people on NeoGAF think could be Demon's Souls 2. Dengeki mention an unannounced sequel to a game which came out last year, which they describe the game as 'challenging and extremely hard, with very "interesting" gameplay systems'. Sounds like Demon's Souls to me.

Its only barely a year since the game came out in Japan. I don't know how long it was in development but a sequel so soon sounds a bit rushed.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well there's the other end of the of the argument with someone invading your world shouting out 'I'm gonna rape you (racial slur beginning with N and sexist slur beginning with F) and teabagging you when you die. Anyway nobody uses mics on PSN.

Genuinely hilarious! I am going to fire a an arrow through your neck and then teaback your Crystal Lizard corpse...W00t!"

Seriosuly though, people may not use mics less on PSN then on XBL but saying "Nobody uses mics on PSN" is an enormous exaggeration in my experience. I am sure it depends on the game but Uncharted 2, MW1, BF demo, MGS4 etc all seem to have quite healthy mic usuage. It also has been in Play.com's top 1-5 PS3 sellers for nearly 6 months now (not that that is proof on its own of usage).

GothPunk

Remember, this is just speculation, it could be Sin and Punishment 3 for all we know, Demon's Souls 2 just seems more likely. With it being a Sony owned IP as well they can give From Software the financial incentive to do it.

As for whether it'll be a rush job - I figure it would have started development around January 2009. Considering a preliminary release schedule of Autumn 2010 - which could end up slipping to Winter 2010-2011 - I think that 20+ months of development is fine for a game. I'm sure there was stuff that was cut from the first game, I've read that apparently there was a level set in a library that was cut out for example. I do agree though that Demon's Souls was so great because it felt so fresh amongst so many games that are too easy - I'm not sure they can recreate the same special feeling I get from playing Demon's Souls in a sequel. I'm sure it would be fun to play though.

My suggestion for improvement would be to make it easier to join a friend in game.

smooch71

GothPunk wrote: »

Remember, this is just speculation, it could be Sin and Punishment 3 for all we know, Demon's Souls 2 just seems more likely. With it being a Sony owned IP as well they can give From Software the financial incentive to do it.

As for whether it'll be a rush job - I figure it would have started development around January 2009. Considering a preliminary release schedule of Autumn 2010 - which could end up slipping to Winter 2010-2011 - I think that 20+ months of development is fine for a game. I'm sure there was stuff that was cut from the first game, I've read that apparently there was a level set in a library that was cut out for example. I do agree though that Demon's Souls was so great because it felt so fresh amongst so many games that are too easy - I'm not sure they can recreate the same special feeling I get from playing Demon's Souls in a sequel. I'm sure it would be fun to play though.

My suggestion for improvement would be to make it easier to join a friend in game.

You can never really create the same feeling from a sequel as you can from something thats original but you can improve on it (I'm talking to you Infinity Ward) without changing the "rules". Uncharted 2 springs to mind. Not original but more fun to play that the first.

I like the fact that you can't play with friends on Demon's Souls, and the fact theres no chat involved. You're totally immersed in the world and playing and communicating with friends would shatter the illusion.

Just on that note, I don't want to start any firestorms here but there's a petition online to get Demon's Souls on the Xbox 360.

Here's what the guy who started the petition says:

"Imagine if this game was on the Xbox 360 SUPERSYSTEM. Full implementation of game chat instead of leaving useless notes on the floor for people to trip on. Full exploitation of the massively successful Xbox Live experience. Imagine 16 man raids with players have the time of their life. Stunning graphics that will leave you breathless instead of what people have had to squint at due to PS3's poor architecture and memory bottlenecks. Innovative possibilities only possible with the highly anticipated Project Natal controller in future patch."


16 Man raids indeed.

Missing the point methinks......

weiland79

Would anyone mind explaining this world tendancy thingy.I've noticed there are segments i can't get into as the WT is wrong,what does this mean and how can i effect WT.Thanks.

ShaneU

weiland79 wrote: »

Would anyone mind explaining this world tendancy thingy.I've noticed there are segments i can't get into as the WT is wrong,what does this mean and how can i effect WT.Thanks.

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/world-tendency

noodler

Isn't January 2009 a bit early for the beginning of the sequel development-wise? If the original hadn't even been released yet then would they even have had the backing for a sequel that early?

It was a risky IP to begin with.

F1ngers

noodler wrote: »

Brilliant news, cheers.

Really enjoyed the all white world at Xmas and will take this opportunity to make some more progress.

Don't you have the US version?

This is for the Asian version...sorry, should've been clearer in my post. I put "asian" in the title of my post.

noodler

F1ngers wrote: »

Don't you have the US version?

This is for the Asian version...sorry, should've been clearer in my post. I put "asian" in the title of my post.

Oops. Still, I would be very surprised if they pass up the chance to do something for the Valentines 'holiday' - my money is on a similar announcement soon.

GothPunk

noodler wrote: »

Isn't January 2009 a bit early for the beginning of the sequel development-wise? If the original hadn't even been released yet then would they even have had the backing for a sequel that early?

It was a risky IP to begin with.

Considering From Software's previous output, it wasn't really a risky IP for them at all, especially considering the had Sony Japan as publisher (i.e. they got paid cash). Demon's Souls is the spiritual successor to From Software's Kings Field series which they had success with. The game was released in February 2009 in Japan and it's common for sequels to be given the green light before the first game has seen release. There has been less time between Armoured Core 4 and 5 than there would be between Demon's Souls and a Demon's Souls 2 released in say, October.

@smooch: I don't necessarily mean change the co-op mode drastically at all, I just mean that if you put down a blue eyes stone and you're within 10 soul levels of your friend, in theory you should be able to meet up with them. This is almost always not the case. Then again, meeting up with friends can lead to exploits/cheating, like trading rare materials and stuff like that.

As for a 360 release, I would love good games to be in the hands of as many people as possible. However, Demon's Souls is a Sony Japan owned IP and thus wouldn't be released on the 360. That has to be a joke post though, completely missed the point of Demon's Souls.

noodler wrote: »

Oops. Still, I would be very surprised if they pass up the chance to do something for the Valentines 'holiday' - my money is on a similar announcement soon.

I'm confused about this discussion about the BWT event - I thought only Atlus USA had announced such an event, I haven't read anything about the Asian version having one too. Linky. Dunno why people want BWT so much, it's easy to get (just die in body form a few times). WWT is much more difficult to achieve.

noodler

GothPunk wrote: »

Considering From Software's previous output, it wasn't really a risky IP for them at all, especially considering the had Sony Japan as publisher (i.e. they got paid cash). Demon's Souls is the spiritual successor to From Software's Kings Field series which they had success with. The game was released in February 2009 in Japan and it's common for sequels to be given the green light before the first game has seen release. There has been less time between Armoured Core 4 and 5 than there would be between Demon's Souls and a Demon's Souls 2 released in say, October.

Well, that certainly offsets the risk in terms of a loss GP but pouring more money into a sequel (whether or not that money is readily available from Sony Japan) before the success of the original game has been determined still seems a bit unlikely to me personally.

They could easily have decided Sony Japan's money would be better served on another IP/franchise had DS not been as popular as it is now. Basically I mean just having the money isn't enough - you still are unlikely to risk it on a sequel for an IP that hadn't even been released.

GothPunk

noodler wrote: »

Well, that certainly offsets the risk in terms of a loss GP but pouring more money into a sequel (whether or not that money is readily available from Sony Japan) before the success of the original game has been determined still seems a bit unlikely to me personally.

They could easily have decided Sony Japan's money would be better served on another IP/franchise had DS not been as popular as it is now. Basically I mean just having the money isn't enough - you still are unlikely to risk it on a sequel for an IP that hadn't even been released.

Ah yes, but the involvement of Sony Japan is the clincher - the PS3 needs more RPGs in Japan, the PS3 needs more exclusive RPGs in Japan, and Sony Japan must have been confident enough in Demon's Souls to have invested in it as publisher in the first place (or maybe they just wanted to guarantee exclusivity). How do you think so many games/sequels to games end up getting cancelled? It's because many of them are started before the original game or developer or whatever has even proven themselves or been released. Plus it's possible Demon's Souls was finished (i.e. 'gone gold') and being pressed onto discs well before the February '09 release date.

On a side note - Demon's Souls is now estimated to have sold between 300,000 and 350,000 copies. For a single platform HD RPG release for a niche title like Demon's Souls, that's phenomenal! It actually did better in North America than it did in Japan. It puzzles me as to why Sony Europe or Atlus USA haven't secured publishing rights for Europe. Madness.

noodler

GothPunk wrote: »

Ah yes, but the involvement of Sony Japan is the clincher - the PS3 needs more RPGs in Japan, the PS3 needs more exclusive RPGs in Japan, and Sony Japan must have been confident enough in Demon's Souls to have invested in it as publisher in the first place (or maybe they just wanted to guarantee exclusivity). How do you think so many games/sequels to games end up getting cancelled? It's because many of them are started before the original game or developer or whatever has even proven themselves or been released. Plus it's possible Demon's Souls was finished (i.e. 'gone gold') and being pressed onto discs well before the February '09 release date.

On a side note - Demon's Souls is now estimated to have sold between 300,000 and 350,000 copies. For a single platform HD RPG release for a niche title like Demon's Souls, that's phenomenal! It actually did better in North America than it did in Japan. It puzzles me as to why Sony Europe or Atlus USA haven't secured publishing rights for Europe. Madness.

I think we are getting off the point a little, bar some possibilities that the game went gold (we should be able to find those figures) before it was released, how it sold subsequent to launch is still not the issue.

The need for PS3 RPGs (that are exclusive) is not at issue either, however I just see it as hard to believe that the company would take the risk of financing a sequel before the original is released, particularly in the current economic climate. It would be a serious and unnecessary commitment - why wouldn't the company keep its options open and if the game suffers from disappointing sales then it can throw its money and resources at another RPG project.

You make the point about sequels being cancelled once the original game doesn't sell well but your previous example was for Armoured Core 4 and 5. I would argue that it is a completely different kettle of fish for games which are already well into their number sequels. At that stage they already have an established fanbase from previous titles, for FF14 (or any FF really) being started way before 13 was released - the brand is already established.

Retr0gamer

GothPunk wrote: »

It puzzles me as to why Sony Europe or Atlus USA haven't secured publishing rights for Europe. Madness.

Well Atlus have no presence in Europe so that ruled them out automatically and Sony Europe are idiots and probably reckoned that the hardcore fanbase of Demons Souls had already imported. The only hope it had was a smaller publisher like Rising Star to take it up but it would have been too much of an investment to support the game with servers.

GothPunk

I only mentioned Armoured Core 4 and 5 as they're developed by From Software also, had a short time between them (about a year and 3 months max) but there was actually an improvement in the games between number 4 and 5. (Actually I shouldn't be calling it Armoured Core 5, it's Armoured Core For Answer, the sequel to Armoured Core 4, Armoured Core 5 won't be out for a while).

Anyways, I understand you, but from what I know From Software and Sony Japan Studio are profitable businesses and can afford to green light sequels due to market predictions. You're telling me a Japanese game company would hesitate to start pre-production on an RPG? Whilst Demon's Souls is a new IP, it's similar to From Software's previous success with King's Field. Plus when you green light a sequel to a game just before the first one is released, you're not really spending that much money - you're throwing out ideas and starting initial pre-production stuff.

If they didn't start sequel talks until March last year (which by then Demon's Souls had sold out it's entire first shipment), that would still be more time From Software had to make the sequel to Armoured Core 4. No reason to think they are rushing it when they're a studio that can make a well received game in 18-24 months. Hell for all we know they made Demon's Souls in 18-24 months! :pac:

Look at us getting carried away with sequel talk, this is all rumour at the moment, but I do enjoy speculating as to what's going on. Here's a quote from the director of Demon's Souls, Hidetaka Miyazaki, about the possibility of a sequel. Link to full interview.

Hidetaka Miyazaki wrote:

I’m just an employee of the development company, so I can’t directly answer whether there’ll be a sequel to Demon’s Souls. With that said, my personal opinion is that we learned a lot during the development of Demon’s Souls, and there were a lot of things that we couldn’t do the first time, so I’d welcome the chance to create an even better game in the same style if the opportunity arises.

That's the kind of talk we always hear from Japanese games people when they're already working on a sequel. Like when people were asking about a sequel to Valkyria Chronicles, the Sega guys were saying stuff like they were 'interested' and stuff like that, when they were already working on it!

noodler

Well when you initially said 'in development' I take that to be past the 'discussion' phase to be fair.

Given the costs with HD games this generation etc I honestly do think it is unrealistic to think they were full speed ahead with a sequel before the original came out.

I just think it is a far more likely scenario, again if a sequel to DS IS the game in question, that it is simply being rushed a little.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well Atlus have no presence in Europe so that ruled them out automatically and Sony Europe are idiots and probably reckoned that the hardcore fanbase of Demons Souls had already imported. The only hope it had was a smaller publisher like Rising Star to take it up but it would have been too much of an investment to support the game with servers.

You're dead right, I think I've been playing too many PS2 games and getting mixed up in that Atlus developed those games and didn't publish them.

I would think that Southpeak Games, who are publishing 3D Dot Game Heroes here, could pick it up. Could KoeiTecmo, Ghostlight or Square Europe who have published lots of Atlus's PS2 games here be a possibility? Or are we past that era now? Ghostlight are publishing Record of Agarest War here so they're definitely still publishing console titles. Hmm, perhaps it's one of those things we'll never really know the answer to. I just hope we don't end up having to import all the future great JRPGs. :pac:

noodler wrote: »

Well when you initially said 'in development' I take that to be past the 'discussion' phase to be fair.

Given the costs with HD games this generation etc I honestly do think it is unrealistic to think they were full speed ahead with a sequel before the original came out.

I just think it is a far more likely scenario, again if a sequel to DS IS the game in question, that it is simply being rushed a little.

That was the point of my Valkyria Chronicles example - developers are always playing coy about sequels, saying they're open to the idea when in fact they're already working on it. Sequels are much cheaper anyways - you've already got a game engine running and probably have some assets and ideas left over from the first game. I'm not sure what we can say about the cost of a game for From Software, they certainly churn them out quick enough.

It's just think it's short sighted to say it's going to be a ruch job when a) You don't know when they started development and b) The developer often makes games in a relatively short period of time and c) You don't know how long it took to make the first game. Hey maybe it will be a rush job and be a disappointment but I'll always have the relative perfection that is the first game.

Retr0gamer

It's the running cost of the servers needed to support the online mode that would be the big put off for companies. Publishers like Koei and Ghostlight are tiny and wouldn't have the money or be able to take the risk. They buy IP's cheap, churn out a cheap conversion and then sell copies. Square Enix would be the only one big enough to do this but then again Square Enix Europe are a pretty poor publisher.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's the running cost of the servers needed to support the online mode that would be the big put off for companies. Publishers like Koei and Ghostlight are tiny and wouldn't have the money or be able to take the risk. They buy IP's cheap, churn out a cheap conversion and then sell copies. Square Enix would be the only one big enough to do this but then again Square Enix Europe are a pretty poor publisher.

I swear I am not naturally argumentative or anything (yeah right) but I would have thought the DS servers were far less intensive than others. I mean the messages and death replays are occassional as are the PVP?

Not to mention with sales of around 350,000 (or was that just Asia GP?) you wouldn't expect the EU ones to be overly-packed, would you? Maybe I am underestimating/miscalculating that the cost of having the servers active IN THE CASE of a big influx (regardless of low us on any given day) are where the true costs lie.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's the running cost of the servers needed to support the online mode that would be the big put off for companies. Publishers like Koei and Ghostlight are tiny and wouldn't have the money or be able to take the risk. They buy IP's cheap, churn out a cheap conversion and then sell copies. Square Enix would be the only one big enough to do this but then again Square Enix Europe are a pretty poor publisher.

You've reminded me of something I've been meaning to mention here - when I first was playing my US copy of Demon's Souls, it said the servers were only guaranteed to be open until Autumn or something like that. Now the game makes no mention of this at the login screen and just says something like 'Please enjoy the online mode'. I wonder if the good sales of Demon's Souls in the US means they can support the servers for longer?

You're probably right about SCEE's feeling about the 'hardcore' just importing Demon's Souls - however, could the good performance of the game in the US change anything? It's a shame that a lot of people won't have a chance to play an awesome game.

So thankful for region free gaming.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Not to mention with sales of around 350,000 (or was that just Asia GP?) you wouldn't expect the EU ones to be overly-packed, would you? Maybe I am underestimating/miscalculating that the cost of having the servers active IN THE CASE of a big influx (regardless of low us on any given day) are where the true costs lie.

Running even a small number of servers costs a lot of money. You have to have a well ventilated place to put them that might need to be expanded if there's a greater load than anticipated and the servers need to be on 24/7 with the running costs of ventilation as well. Then there's the paying of technicians to set them up and keep them maintained.

Most of these publishers are basically just a bunch of guys in an office working on outsourcing all the work with little knowledge of the tech behind it.

GothPunk

noodler wrote: »

Not to mention with sales of around 350,000 (or was that just Asia GP?) you wouldn't expect the EU ones to be overly-packed, would you? Maybe I am underestimating/miscalculating that the cost of having the servers active IN THE CASE of a big influx (regardless of low us on any given day) are where the true costs lie.

Estimated 350,000 worldwide - that's huge for a game like this that likely was made for very little money when compared to some other games in the same genre. Especially when every single copy of the game sold out - the demand was much greater in Asia and then again in the US than the publisher had anticipated.

You're right about servers too, they're usually set up to cope with an average of players, which is why at launch lot's of online games have problems. However, I would think that a server made to cope with only 20,000 Europeans could be quite expensive (and may not be worth the hassle with upkeep etc) for a small time developer. But you make a good point about the online mode not being very intensive, I would guess only a few hundred people are in PvP at any one time on each region's server anyway. I think the fact that the game hasn't been announced for release here - when it has sold great overseas - means that we just don't have the right size publisher in Europe, they're either too small or too big to be interested in the game.

Like I said, my only worry is that this will happen again with another game. So long as we have our import stores and region free consoles I guess we'll be safe.

F1ngers

GothPunk wrote: »

I'm confused about this discussion about the BWT event - I thought only Atlus USA had announced such an event, I haven't read anything about the Asian version having one too. Linky. Dunno why people want BWT so much, it's easy to get (just die in body form a few times). WWT is much more difficult to achieve.

It wasn't an announcement, I was loading up the game last night, and one of the screens that you hit "OK" on had something along the line of this: "DS is one year old. Thank you to all our fans. This Valentines will be BWT"*.

*That's not word for word, but you get the meaning.

Was messing around in 4-1 last night, had full life and waited to be invaded, as you do. Anyway got creamed by the invaders, and now all my worlds are black.
Can't get past Satsuki in 4-1, one hit kill.

Won't know what the other worlds are like til I get home tonight...:(

smooch71

The vote for the WT thing is pretty cool

http://www.demons-souls.com/vday.php


Just out of interest. Do your messages stay when you're offline and not playing?

On occasion I've loaded up a game and get the "Your message as been recommended" message.

It rarely happens when I'm in the middle of a game though and is of no benefit coz I'm usually in the Nexus with my health at full (or half as the case may be) anyway.

Just curious is all.