Is the current Irish Govt really THAT bad??

zootroid

Taltos wrote: »

Jeez - picking Fine Gael cause a change is good? Anyone remember last time they were in - all the talk of water charges, would not be surprised if we get landed with a land tax too just to pay for their expenses.
But FF - man - for years they have frittered away our cash. All the way back to that great saving scheme - why was money not invested in our infrastructure then or saved for today. McCreevey then Cowan - the mismanagement of our finances is there for all to see.

But to have Cowan back - no way. Nor do I want Kenny - do not trust him one bit - comes across as a slimeball.

But who else?
Greens? - well and truly in with FF...
Labour? do not trust them either

Maybe it is time for us to look at our governance model and shake it up?
Starting first with wages - then expenses then pension - let them wait until they are 65 for that.

As long as we have a system in place that lets them treat us like mugs that is exactly what they will do.

Fine Gael was part of the government that brought in free college education. While it has been debated at length whether it achieved its goal (encouraging those from a lower socio-economic background to go to third level), and whether it contributed to a decline in third level standards (lack of funds etc) it certainly allowed me and a lot of my friends to go to college for free. So overall I view it as a good thing.

They were also part of the government that saw the beginnings of the Celtic Tiger (before it became a bubble economy based only on construction).

In my mind they didn't do too badly the last time they were in. I was only 13 in 1994 though, so am open to correction on any policy failings from that time.

jmayo

Taltos wrote: »

Jeez - picking Fine Gael cause a change is good? Anyone remember last time they were in - all the talk of water charges, would not be surprised if we get landed with a land tax too just to pay for their expenses.

But FF - man - for years they have frittered away our cash. All the way back to that great saving scheme - why was money not invested in our infrastructure then or saved for today. McCreevey then Cowan - the mismanagement of our finances is there for all to see.

But to have Cowan back - no way. Nor do I want Kenny - do not trust him one bit - comes across as a slimeball.

But who else?
Greens? - well and truly in with FF...
Labour? do not trust them either

Maybe it is time for us to look at our governance model and shake it up?
Starting first with wages - then expenses then pension - let them wait until they are 65 for that.

As long as we have a system in place that lets them treat us like mugs that is exactly what they will do.

So then what do you suggest we do ?
Nothing and leave the current shower in who have been shown to be as good as corrupt, unethical, inept and a complete bunch of fcukwits ?
I would say vote FG and if they don't have cleanup and take on vested interests tell them you will vote them out.
If FF's vote falls through the floor it is an indication to all parties that the Irish people have had enough with the sh**.

BTW FG and Lab government were actaully quiet good and that was with Ruari Quinn as Finance Minister.
They helped create the booming real celtic tiger that bertie inherited in 1997.
He managed not to screw it up too much until he got back in in 2002.

Oh and we will have to have water charges at some stage and possibly return of rates.

danef wrote: »

I'm note totally understanding of the hole political structure but it is very clear to me that FG and FF are so close in their policies that changing our voting from FF to FG wont really offer an alternative.

If you look at the UK structure and the American structure you have a left and a right that are the 2 main partys. Then look at Ireland and we have right wing main opposition partys.
...
I believe the real solidness that Ireland lacks that UK and American structures have is down to the swapping back and forth of the left and right parties over a period of time the enableling implementation of the best of both ideologies.

Is it time to give Labour a chance? Both America and the UK have left governments do we need to follow suit?

What would the budget have held for us with a Labour government? If the UK budget is anything to go by, would it have been a lot better than the one we had?

I am at the crossroads here on weather to change my vote? All the talk of Kenny and Cowan personally I think Gilmore is a bigger hitter?

At this stage I will need to be convinced not to switch to Labour hard as it is to say.

Convince me!

Jeeze I can see a few people on here disagreeing about our parties being right wing :rolleyes:
BTW the days of Labour in the UK being Left Wing are well and trully over post New Labour.
There ain't much difference between New Labour and the Tories on most issues.
Left wing in power in US, maybe compared to Bush and Palin ??

You may think there are not many differences between FG and FF and definetly in some things they would not be poles apart, but they do have differences.
One major one is that FG are proposing something radical for our health service, which has been shown to work in the likes of The Netherlands.
What are FF proposing, co-location and using private hospitals as a tax right off for rich businessmen and developers :rolleyes:

Other differences would be that they are proposing reform of the public sector rather than more of the same asnd the decentralisation dog and pony show.
The question will be, will they have the balls to take on huge public sector unions and sizeable public sector voters ?

But the one massive difference between FG and FF is in their makeup and the actual people.
FG appear to have some people who actually appear to know what they are talking about, whereas FF have the Lenihans, Cullen, Coughlan, Harney (as good as FF over the last 10 years), Dempsey (do you want to bet, run a building society and use a helicopter to fly down to Meath) and Clowen.

FG had one major bad apple who got turfed out, whereas FF have had Lawlor (eventually pushed out), Burke (promoted to senior minister even though dodgy stink coming from him), Flynn snr, Fynn jnr (brought back into party even though screwed the tax payer for over 1 million plus all the tax avoidance/evasion she faciliated), bertie, haughey, Stroke Fahy (found guilty of corruption).

FG have not be shown to be bordering on corrupt, unethical, inept, irresponsible, arrogant, abject failures, huge wasters of public sector funds, having cosey relationships with developers and bankers.

So do you wait for some new messiah party to come along offering totally new policies that you really like, all the while allowing the current shower of inept chancers to remain in power or do you vote for someone with similar polices who haven't be shown to be arrogant, irresponsible, incompetent and unethical.
Your choice, but if you choose to do nothing or vote for some independent don't complain when they sell their soul to FF or FF get back in due to others not getting the votes.

Sleazus

Irish elections aren't based on policy - never have been. If that was the case, Labour would have emerged in the 1920's as a third major party. The fact that the electorate seem to take great joy crushing smaller parties (Progressive Democrats, the Socialists, and I suspect the Greens will get a pasting) indicate that we'll continue with this centre-right and centre-righter divide. Hell, to stay in the game last election Labour proposed tax cuts. As such, I think the deciding issue is what the Irish people perceive as competence.

I don't doubt we'll see a swing towards Fine Gael in the next election, but I don't think they would have done any better. Can you honestly tell me that Fine Gael would have changed spending or taxing patterns significantly enough to have stopped the bubble from bursting? It's a paradoxical argument, I know, but I would really like a party with experience in the Dail.

I look at Fianna Fail and I see talent and I see experience. I don't see a distinguishable ideological divide between the parties on which to base my vote other than that.

I doubt we'll ever have a political spectrum in any sense of the word, simply because we don't want it.

EDIT:

BTW the days of Labour in the UK being Left Wing are well and trully over post New Labour.

Yep. New Labour is right of the Pre-Thatcher Conservative Party, for crying out loud.

meglome

fluffer wrote: »

My vote is going to go between Labour and FG. Not even a 5th preference will be given to FF. My only decision is which party to give 1st preference to.

I also hold the greens in contempt. They bear the blame for keeping FF in power.


Like most people I smell blood and I want heads.

Unlike most people I didnt vote for FF or the greens the last time.
The irish people are more to blame than any political party.

I agree with most of this. I haven't voted for the government parties in several years as the waste and bubble were going to really **** us at some point. I don't really know if Fine Gael would have done any better but I get the suspicion that some slightly trained monkeys would have actual done better than Fianna Fail in the end. We collectively kept voting for the status quo and reaped the em... rewards... of that. So the status quo has not worked for us so maybe we should try something different, just a suggestion.