Is it illegal to remove candidate posters especially the Greens

stephens770

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

They were allowed to go up last night, but only after midnight.

The Irish Indo has a report about it that says: "Dublin City Council confirmed it is investigating a number of candidates whom it believes illegally erected campaign posters in public places before midnight last night."

I felt like taking down the Sinn Fein Euro and local election posters that were being illegally erected yesterday at about 7.30pm on public lamp-posts along Coolmine Road in Dublin 15. (I'm sure of the time because I saw it myself and I had just got off a train at Coolmine station.)

What makes it even more annoying is that the Indo also says: "Sinn Fein rejected claims MEP Mary Lou McDonald had erected posters illegally. A party spokesperson said: 'I don't believe they are up.'"

Well, they most certainly were up, and so I'd argue that the Mary Lou campaign did erect posters illegally.

Complaints about posters can seem like trivial quibbling over times and littering legislation, but it's revealing in that it shows yet again that many Irish politicians are more concerned about getting themselves elected than they are about respecting the law or the environment.

true,but what can be done?nothing

El Che

ismynametoolong wrote: »

Snipeddy snip snip ! I am an avid collector of green Memorabilia particuarly candidate posters and will pay good money aprox 1 c per poster for current
election material. pm me Just think thats a crispy tenner for every thouand De Burca posters !

The poster prices have actually risen this year. I know one Printer's who is supplying one of the parties and is actually charing 5 Euro/per poster & ties.

Daithinski

bijapos wrote: »

On a few of the above points.

1. Sorry to say it but ripping them down is theft, and I'd say if Councillor soandso finds out its you the powers that be will be after ya.



6. The posters will come down after the election, the cable ties stay, makes my blood boil.

What about if you just took the cable ties?

Dyr

Interestingly, there's filming going on down mount street and the filming company were removing all the election posters from the lamposts..which is illegal I thought..

rubadub

Shay(mless) Brennan is the lowest of the low, both literally and figuratively. David Saul was a close second, both ignoring the dlrcoco guidelines of no posters being below 2.5m (along with most parties).

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have advised all parties that (among other things);

Quote:
There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft)
from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

and

Quote:
Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

Shay Brennan (and I hold him personally responsible) has a poster on leopardstown road obstructing a cycletrack, which people are legally obliged to cycle on. There is a sign post near the N11 junction with 2 poles, these poles are on the cycletrack and are already dangerous enough. i.e. the poles are closer together than the width of the cycletrack, now there is his poster, about 0.3m off the ground, further obstructing it.

There was talk of forcing them to use party specific cable ties too. The incompetent idiots who put the signs up rarely cut back the cable ties. Then when they rip them down they leave the cable ties. I have been cycling at ~40kph and been struck in the face by cable ties, many are at eye level. If they do have to cut the cable ties to get a poster down they are often left on the cycletracks which again is extremely dangerous at high speed on narrow tyres.

Labour have little red signs on the N11, these are definitely designed with the intent to look like road signs. Its a disgrace, they are small square signs and put at an angle, i.e. like a diamond, just red & white. They look nothing like other posters and are certainly distracting.

1. Sorry to say it but ripping them down is theft, and I'd say if Councillor soandso finds out its you the powers that be will be after ya

Any below 2.5m in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown are classed as litter so I presume they are fair game.


http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2009/DDHWWEDCEC/MAR09.htm

Guidelines Relating to the Display of Election Poster:

1. Election posters should only be erected after an election has been declared and a polling date determined.

2. In accordance with the Litter Pollution Act 1997 election posters and ties must be removed within 7 days after polling date. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. The associated fixing arrangement particularly plastic ties must be removed at the same time the poster is being removed.

3. No adhesive or metal fixings are permitted.

4. All posters should be manufactured from cardboard composites or other recyclable materials.

5. The Party or individual responsible for the poster must be clearly indicated on the poster.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

b. on traffic signal poles,

c. on bridge parapets, overpasses and on pedestrian bridges

d. on roadside traffic barriers

e. on traffic poles or statutory signage of any type including stop, yield, cycletrack, parking control, etc.

f. on Motorways

g. must not obstruct the view of traffic lights or road signs,

h. must not block or obstruct motorists view of pedestrians, i.e. pedestrian barriers, or railings.

7. There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft) from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

8. A maximum of two posters per candidate is permitted on any lamp or standard pole.

9. Political parties/independent candidates are reminded that no claims for damages arising from placing, displaying or removal of their posters will lie with the Council and they may consider it appropriate to take out Public Liability Insurance in this regard.

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

After a brief discussion during which John Guckian answered Members queries, the Councillors requested that the Manager examine the possibility of implementing a scheme similar to Dublin City Council’s system whereby posters are removed at a cost to the parties. J. Guckian AGREED to come back to the Members with a report on the feasibility of this scheme in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

Bricriu

Darsad wrote: »

It is amazing how much money the greens seem to have at their disposal these days just look at how much are they wasting on deburcha's campaign ( you know the one who cant spell or be bothered to proof read her posters ) Overnight they seem to have taken poll position on every lamp post on my journey to work whats the carbon foot print for that i wonder! Anyway is it illegal to remove these posters or would it be viewed as ones civic duty in keeping your town clean .

She is not the only one who can't spell. You have six spelling mistakes (at least) in your own post.

Seth Brundle

get a load of this from the motors forum...

MarkN wrote: »

Believe it or believe it not, there's a full set of lights behind these posters !


God love the poor child that has a green man to cross that road.............

turgon

Further to the FF poster "furore" I was driving in west cork yesterday and I say this candidates poster with a green background on the main road. I mean all green, so I put it down as a green member.

Then I though of the FF small logo thing so I slowed down. Turns out what the guy hs done is have a deep green background with a slightly lighter shade green logo embossed over it. Wouldn't notice it from a distance.

His running mate was using the standard issue poster on the same poles which made me more annoyed.

Sleepy

I vaguely remember that in Freakonomics, Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt proved that either poster or television advertising were completely ineffective...

nesf

turgon wrote: »

Further to the FF poster "furore" I was driving in west cork yesterday and I say this candidates poster with a green background on the main road. I mean all green, so I put it down as a green member.

Then I though of the FF small logo thing so I slowed down. Turns out what the guy hs done is have a deep green background with a slightly lighter shade green logo embossed over it. Wouldn't notice it from a distance.

His running mate was using the standard issue poster on the same poles which made me more annoyed.

What I find most amusing is that people's party affiliation is on the ballot clear as day and I doubt people would fail to notice who's in FF and who isn't with this being the case.

dublin1968

yes you can take them down, the person who put them up has to prosecute..and they wouldnt..i took down all the inda kenny twats down 2 years ago, spittin image dosent have a patch on that twat...

dublin1968

8 foot from a lamppost...thats the rule regarding the height of an election poster..take the b...strds to court if u catch 1 i the eye..inda kenny wan...kr used to ask his electioneers to post them as low as possible..muppet.

jhegarty

dublin1968 wrote: »

yes you can take them down, the person who put them up has to prosecute..and they wouldnt..i took down all the inda kenny twats down 2 years ago, spittin image dosent have a patch on that twat...

And everything worked out very well for us, didn't it ?

gearoidof

dublin1968, your militancy is a shining example of democracy at work! Do you vote a straight party ticket?

But please please please, above all else, read over your own words before posting?

Strum

This gets good folks.

The posters:

Here is what they said about the original posters...











OI! That's not very environmentally friendly dumping that poster in the Canal!

Strum

I have done my research to cement what I already know about this material...M.D.F. (Medium Density Fibreboard) There is also H.D.F. and L.D.F. (Heavy and Light)
I have been working with this material for about 17 years and know about all the health risks it poses.
Banned in some countries for its carcinogenic properties.

Dangers to health in the use of medium density fibreboard have always been seen as two-fold. The board is composed of minute particles of wood pulp bound with a mixture containing formaldehyde. When the board is sawn,especially with power tools, this formaldehyde is released into the atmosphere along with dust fine as talcum powder. The first health-risk is ingestion of the poison; the counter argument is that tomatoes contain, weight for weight, as much formaldehyde as MDF - but who would eat 56lbs of this fruit in one sitting?

To put it mildly folks, if people breathe in this dust, the formaldehyde in effect embalms your lungs! :shock:

The second health risk is from the dust particles themselves, fine enough to clog the lungs and induce silicosis. This is the same disease brought on by prolonged exposure to coal dust which decimated the mining industry during the last century.

So I found one of the "new environmentally friendly, wood poster backings which come from sustainable, state-owned forests" the other day and lo and behold, guess what they are actually made of???
You guessed it M.D.F.






The printers.........who don't seem to exist BTW




And guess what??? I drove past a new De Burca poster yesterday and what was it printed on???
You guessed it....no you didn't!
Petrochemical-based plastic 'polyboard' material, often supplied from continental Europe!


Some NECK!




So what they say in print and what they are actually doing is bulls*it.
Or else the printer was bulls*ittin the greens as to what they are made of.
Further investigation is needed into the printer, but my point is that they can tell us anything and we take it for granted.


How much would "News of the World" give me for this story?


(c)

Strum

More on the Posters!

This was my moan of the month on a different board.

My May moan. ELECTION POSTERS!

Hasn't there always been a moan about the posters? The cost and the mess etc.
Well these new plastic signs have slowly put printers and signmakers out of business over the last ten years or so.
But look at this mess! How much is this going to cost to clean up???
Melted plastic on the track and grass???
The individuals on the posters should be made clean it up themselves,
after all if they cannot put the posters up high enough out of reach of a lighter they they should be held accountable!


I'll be watching out to see how long this mess stays here and who has to clean it up. :-|

Strum

I forgot to mention that up above it is proposed that the original "new environmentally friendly, wood poster backings which come from sustainable, state-owned forests" be turned into attic insulation...
Like replacing Asbestos with ...well...Asbestos, if you ask me!

Have a nice day!

Darsad

Good Work Strum ! What other lies are these people spouting !I am sure one of the radio stations would be very interested in this !

O'Coonassa

Darsad wrote: »

What other lies are these people spouting !

How dare you suggest that politicians would tell lies to the country, that's absolute slander. :P

rubadub

MEP candidate for Dublin Senator Deirdre de Burca said: "On Wednesday I will be putting up thousands of posters around Dublin promoting my campaign to be a Green MEP for Dublin.

Translation, I will be breaking the law thousands of time by putting up posters in breach of the law.

thebman wrote: »

Is there any real evidence that these posters are effective. I'm not going to vote for a party because of a poster.

I would decide not to vote because of their littering and disregard for human safety.

kbannon wrote: »

several posters hanging well after the election date but the council decided to turn a blind eye! Whats the odds of another blind eye?

Very likely, those leftover cable ties from illegally low posters are a definite blinding hazard.

Still no reply to my email.

Dear Ms de Búrca,
I am shocked and disgusted at the littering you have inflicted on the borough of Dun Laoghaire. The entire stretch of the N11 from cabinteely to whites cross has been sullied with countless election posters, which have been put in place illegally. Your own posters, which I would hold you solely responsible for, are in far greater numbers than all the other posters combined. I do not see why a supposedly "green" party would even continue this outdated method of advertising. Even if these new posters are supposedly biodegradable their production is no doubt a waste of energy, in numerous senses of the word. I have been waiting for the day some party called for these ridiculous and dangerous eyesores to be banned outright, and it is ironic that the green party are by far the worst offenders.

On this particular stretch of the N11 on both side I have not seen a single poster of yours which is not in breach of the Litter Pollution Act 1997. Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council issued very clear guidelines on displaying of election posters which you arrogantly and criminally have chosen to ignore. The guidelines can be seen in the link at the bottom of this email. Every single one of your posters is in breach of number 7, the height restriction. Others are in breach of 6 a,b,c,d,e,g,h, and 8.

Many are already pulled down and dangerously blowing into oncoming cars, the slightest potential for injury to a person should be reason enough to discontinue this outdated practise. Many of your posters are heavily encroaching cycletracks, especially due to their low height. Cyclists are legally obliged to cycle on these tracks which are already in a very poor condition without you adding to the risk. I see you have also refused to cut back the cable ties on all of your posters, many of these are at eye level and since you chose to use the more dangerous (poorly visible) black ties these are a very serious hazard to cyclists. I have reached speeds of 55kph on the N11 cycletrack and would not want to be struck in the eye by your cableties. I hope you have taken records of every single poster erected since many are already pulled down but these dangerous cable ties are still left. You are legally obliged to remove these ties but I hold little hope of that seeing the outrageous disrepect for the law you have already displayed.

I will be contacting the county council and the gardai regarding this serious offence. I hope you will act immediately to remove the existing illegal posters/litter from the N11.

Regards

******



http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2009/DDHWWEDCEC/MAR09.htm

Guidelines Relating to the Display of Election Poster:

1. Election posters should only be erected after an election has been declared and a polling date determined.

2. In accordance with the Litter Pollution Act 1997 election posters and ties must be removed within 7 days after polling date. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. The associated fixing arrangement particularly plastic ties must be removed at the same time the poster is being removed.

3. No adhesive or metal fixings are permitted.

4. All posters should be manufactured from cardboard composites or other recyclable materials.

5. The Party or individual responsible for the poster must be clearly indicated on the poster.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

b. on traffic signal poles,

c. on bridge parapets, overpasses and on pedestrian bridges

d. on roadside traffic barriers

e. on traffic poles or statutory signage of any type including stop, yield, cycletrack, parking control, etc.

f. on Motorways

g. must not obstruct the view of traffic lights or road signs,

h. must not block or obstruct motorists view of pedestrians, i.e. pedestrian barriers, or railings.

7. There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft) from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

8. A maximum of two posters per candidate is permitted on any lamp or standard pole.

9. Political parties/independent candidates are reminded that no claims for damages arising from placing, displaying or removal of their posters will lie with the Council and they may consider it appropriate to take out Public Liability Insurance in this regard.

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

After a brief discussion during which John Guckian answered Members queries, the Councillors requested that the Manager examine the possibility of implementing a scheme similar to Dublin City Council’s system whereby posters are removed at a cost to the parties. J. Guckian AGREED to come back to the Members with a report on the feasibility of this scheme in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

I have contacted other parties with no response either. Come election day I am hoping there will be a garda present outside the polling station, there usually is in my area. I will have the guidelines printed out and take great joy in tearing down the posters and handing them to the offenders, and ask for people to be prosecuted if they are in the act of putting them up.

billbond4

Im over in Finland at the moment and they have a very good system.
Election candidates have their posters up in bus shelters and other advertising signs, fair enough.

Then on a few streets around the town there was put up advertising boards which mainly have ONE poster per party with all their candidates on it.
So the city isnt littered with the poxy election posters.

I think a fair bit of stuff comes through the letterbox, but at least you dont have to be looking at someones face all around a town and they dont obstruct traffic signs

rubadub

billbond4 wrote: »

Election candidates have their posters up in bus shelters

de Búrca has one on a bus shelter near cabinteely school I really think they should only be allowed advertise where other people can, dunno why on earth they get free reign and why the gardai & council tolerate this littering.

I used to work in dublin city taking down illegal posters, most people putting up illegal posters for gigs & rallies etc have far more common sense and respect for the safety of people and aesthetic placement than most of these goons.

thebman

I think people should definitely make this an issue when they turn up on your door step.

It only takes a minute and won't stop you making your own point. It also won't be an attack on any party since they all do it.

If they see that is annoying people and not effective they'll change their stance on it.

Marshy

Was coming home on Friday night and had the fortune of picking up one of Caroline Simons' posters on the ground, saved me ripping one down.

I have to say I've passed the stretch of the N11 in question frequently over the past weeks and didn't really think de Burca's posters were placed that hazardously. Also some of those regulations seem very pedantic.

Our man in Havana

I have removed a load of SF posters from around my house. Cheeky shinners think it is fun to place posters in an area where they are not wanted.

BTW, posters burn well.

Overheal

kbannon wrote: »

get a load of this from the motors forum...

If its a danger to Public safety, by all means remove it. Just keep a copy of the 1997 act in your pocket and go around tearing them all down tbh.

rubadub

Marshy wrote: »

I have to say I've passed the stretch of the N11 in question frequently over the past weeks and didn't really think de Burca's posters were placed that hazardously.

The bad/hazardous ones are usually ripped down, I see a few people doing it. Also in a car you might not appreciate how hazardous they are. Cycling from dun laoghaire to dalkey I found many jutting out onto the road, so you have to cycle out in the centre to avoid them, and put yourself at the mercy of the traffic who think you should be in the gutter along with these politicians.

It looks like the corpo had to come out and remove many of de Burcas themselves. The greens esp. had completely plastered the pedestrian railings at whitescross, and they seemed to be properly removed as the cable ties were gone too, and not just discarded on the ground like the bastards usually do (which again is a cycling hazard). These posters are obstructing the view of pedestrians to motorists, particularly small children who could be hidden entirely.

Marshy wrote: »

Also some of those regulations seem very pedantic.

Which ones in particular? They have to cover all bases, they should count themselves extremely lucky they get to put any up, dunno why they still are allowed. Imagine they had never been up ever, and some party requested they could do what the country is now being subjected to, there would be absolutely no tolerance of it. People have just grown up with this crap so call it tradition and do not fundamentally question it.

I can see sound reasons for every regulation on the list, I would have hoped the parties could come up with their own law for themselves. Most are to stop distraction to drivers. Labour have little red signs whos design is obviously intended to mimic a legal road sign and so cause undue distraction. And they ban using mobile phones in cars?!?

Will it take a human life before this practise is stopped? some guy in the paper said his windscreen was smashed while driving on a dual carriageway and one hit it.

Whether you think it is pedantic is really an issue, its the law, end of story, they have no respect for the law or fellow human beings.

Grudaire

Bond-007 wrote: »

I have removed a load of SF posters from around my house. Cheeky shinners think it is fun to place posters in an area where they are not wanted.

BTW, posters burn well.

Ahhhhhhhhh

Democracy at work :rolleyes:

+1 on enforcing the laws that are there - it's madness that they aren't enforcing the rules, and it could be a money spinner for the Councils as well:D

Marshy

rubadub wrote: »

Which ones in particular? I can see sound reasons for every regulation on the list, I would have hoped the parties could come up with their own law for themselves.

Why aren't they allowed on bridges for example? That's the main one I have trouble understanding.

Whether you think it is pedantic is really an issue, its the law, end of story, they have no respect for the law or fellow human beings.

Well I agree to a point. If the posters are put in stupid places that get in the way of people fair enough, it shouldn't be done.

But the law isn't always right. Its like if they started charging people for jay-walking tomorrow, it wouldn't stop me doing it.