Dole

97i9y3941

they have to do something to make it more attractable to work,any companies that are offering work are offering it on part time basis,meaning you are getting more money off on the dole than work,sad but true...

Sligome

i always said that i would never go on the dole but at christmas i had to go on to it,
i will ask people to live on the dole of 204.30 a week paying bills, insurance, mortgage and so on and see how far they can get, by saturday i never have any money left, usually this happens right after i get it and pay bills.

people who say that the dole should be cut are absolutly stupid and have obviously never been forced to claim the dole and they should take a long hard look at themselves.

people who are on the dole who have never worked should not be let have it,

foreign people who come over to work are no longer allowed to claim the dole, i know this for a fact as i have foreign friends.

the illegal immigrants obviously had to leave their country for a reason and the majority of them are not allowed work and only get a few pound a week, aout 20 euro. so people need to relax about this.

i apply for about 10 jobs a day and i so far have not had any luck, i volunteer at rescue centres and anywhere i can just to keep myself sane.

FAS now have a new policy that if you are on the dole for more than 6 months they will put you into a course and you can learn more skills. they will also put you on work (voluntary) if you wish where you can gain experience so it is not all bad

97i9y3941

Sligome wrote: »

FAS now have a new policy that if you are on the dole for more than 6 months they will put you into a course and you can learn more skills. they will also put you on work (voluntary) if you wish where you can gain experience so it is not all bad

kinda goes back to the "hes on a fas course so hes not on the dole routine"

97i9y3941

Friday, 5 June 2009-The number of people on the Live Register hit 400,000 for the first time last month.

On a seasonally adjusted basis, there are now 402,100 people on the Live Register seeking unemployment benefit or allowances.

It is the first time the numbers on the dole have ever reached this level. It translates into an unemployment rate of 11.8%.
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Over 105,000 people have been added to the Live Register since the start of the year.

Earlier this year, the ESRI forecast that unemployment could rise to 17% next year.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0605/liveregister.html

97i9y3941

THe Government will get its hands on the widely anticipated 'An Bord Snip' report next Tuesday, triggering speculation over what cuts it will make in the next Budget.

Chairman of the cost-cutting committee, economist Colm McCarthy, will submit the report to the Department of Finance by the target date of June 30.

Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin yesterday claimed any talk about cutbacks is "very premature".

She spoke as reports suggested there could be a slashing of the €21bn social welfare budget and the €20bn public-sector pay bill.

The committee, which met with all 15 government departments in recent months, is not expected to make specific recommendations on rates of dole and social welfare payments.

Instead, it is expected to look at welfare entitlements, and raise questions about thresholds and eligibility, and how many double allowances people can obtain.

"It's important to remember that the report will advise the Government but it is the Government which ultimately decides what to do in the Budget. The report will inform the Budget process which will really get under way now once Cabinet receives the report," a Government source said.

While no decisions on the report's recommendations are expected before the summer recess, any non-controversial or easy to implement changes will be looked at immediately.

Publication

No decision has yet been made about whether to publish the report. "That will be for Cabinet to decide," a Department of Finance spokesman said. The report of the first 'An Bord Snip' in 1987, of which Mr McCarthy was also a member, was never published.

Dismissing speculation that the Christmas bonus could be reintroduced to offset cuts in her social welfare budget, Ms Hanafin insisted that no decisions had been made yet.

"On the day of the last Budget when the removal of the Christmas bonus was announced, I indicated that if there were any savings to be found across other government departments that this was the one payment we would like to reintroduce," Ms Hanafin said.

"However, unfortunately it is far too early in the year to say that, and I have no indication that we will be able to reintroduce the Christmas bonus this year," she added.

On the issue of cutbacks in dole payments, Ms Hanafin said: "Any talk about what might happen in the next Budget is also very premature because no decisions have been taken by the Government."

The Bord, whose official title is the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes (SGPSNEP), has full freedom to make recommendations on any aspect of public sector reform. It can identify posts that are "not essential" in the public sector.

It is also charged with identifying cuts in spending and staff numbers, quangos that can be merged or abolished and to ways of obtaining better value for taxpayers' money.

Crucially, the group will have to reduce and discontinue expenditure programmes with a view to "eliminating the current Budget deficit by 2011".

im sure it be like the grant system/childrens allowance thats not means tested,people that dont need it willl benefit the most

jank

At the end of the day the counry cannot afford the current and rising dole payments. All other points are mute. Just look at the IMF report that came out today. The government will do something with it at the next budget but rather be strong and take a hammer to it they will fart about and at the end it will safe feck all.

They will need at least 4 billion in cuts in december and alot of that will come out of the dole.

conchobair

I am getting job seeker allowance at the moment as I was a few weeks short of contributions to get job seeker benefit as I was in college. I moved in with my girlfriend and one month later we both got let go from our jobs. Instead of the 204 a week, we got 170 as we were classed as a couple but we never got any tax breaks while working for this. we have moved recently as she has a short term job now. Because she works, MY ALLOWANCE IS CUT TO 140 A WEEK!!!
plus I can not get rent allowance for the same reason. she is still paying off college loans so she isnt completely flush. She gets about 380 euro a week.
We dont have joint accounts or any of that. our rent is about 550 a month which is cheap in cork city. I dont want to be asking her for money (not that Im a chauvinist), its just that while we live together we are still our own people not like a married couple. but the reason I am posting this is to say that if the allowance is cut again then Im really up the creek. I apply for every job I can but so does everyone. No one aspired to be in this situation.
The biggest joke is that if me and my girlfriend split up, I will get 204 euro a week and possibly rent allowance. We are the kind of people who would have been looking to buy a house together if we were still employed but it looks like the government is now trying to keep us apart.

p.s. sorry about long post but had to vent, does anyone know how I can appeal any of this. The people in the social welfare are not very helpfull

JP Liz

Ireland's official unemployment rate has reached its highest level in 12 years, according to the latest Quarterly National Household Survey by the Central Statistics Office.

The CSO says almost 223,000 people were officially unemployed in the first quarter of the year, an increase of almost 104% over the same period in 2008.

This pushed the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate up to 10.2%

Elsewhere, the total number of people with jobs was down 7.5%, or 158,500, between the first quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009.

The CSO says the construction sector and the wholesale and retail sectors have been worst hit, with the education sector actually recording an increase in employment.

The amount of people on dole is increasing daily it will have be cut by some % this year

97i9y3941

i woundnt mind if they cut it on the single people that still live at home,desperate times call for deserpate measures so they could count them,aslong they dont penalise the family man they should be ok,im sure the gov's excuse would be "well the cost of living has come down"...

Raskolnikov

The dole should be a proportion of what you've paid into PRSI. That would mean that hard-working people who've lost their jobs aren't forced into hardship; whereas those who never worked a day in their lives aren't incentivised.

97i9y3941

Changes to child benefit confirmed
watch listen Sunday, 28 June 2009 20:04

The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Mary Hanafin, has said that the Government is to reduce the amount it is spending on child benefit payments.

Minister Hanafin confirmed that the payment was to be means-tested or taxed, and said the scheme cost the State €2.5 billion per year.

She said that social welfare payments had increased 'very significantly' during the years of strong economic growth.
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Speaking on RTÉ's The Week in Politics, to be broadcast tonight, Ms Hanafin said the Government was awaiting the report from the Commission on Taxation before deciding whether to means-test or tax child benefit.

She described the social welfare budget of €21 billion as 'just too much'.
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Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0628/hanafinm.html

irish_bob

its time people in this country stopped thinking with thier hearts and started thinking with their heads in relation to wellfare , the dole is redicolously generous and at an unsustainable level

hellboy99

irish_bob wrote: »

the dole is redicolously generous and at an unsustainable level

Firstly it's not ridiculously generous, say that to the many families struggling to get by on it, and secondly get rid of all the non-nationals flying in to sign on and all the scammers.

97i9y3941

well,some of the non nationals are entitled it since they payed their prsi during the good times,its just the continous issueing the psi nums i find bit ridiculous when theres not enough work to go around...

kadman

irish_bob wrote: »

its time people in this country stopped thinking with thier hearts and started thinking with their heads in relation to wellfare , the dole is redicolously generous and at an unsustainable level

I would assume from your post, that you have a job, so you dont need to sustain your self on the dole rate. If my assumption is incorrect, I apologise.

I dont know any member of the government, that could live on the social welfare rates as they stand, I,d be interested in hearing about one trying.

I,m only aware of one person on this thread that can manage on a reduced rate of dole. If I,m wrong, again , accept my apologies. Some posts on this thread seem to forget that the current crisis here was not caused by high dole rates. It was caused by speculative greed of non dole recipients.

Dole recipients are an easy target, thats why they are going to get hit.

I agree that its time for people to start thinking with their heads.Unfortunately when they do, they will see that shopping north of the border is a cheaper option , than shopping here. Their reduced dole money will more than compensate for the difference in their cuts. And they will get more bang for their buck there. As your choices are limited, and you need to get the most for your money, this is an option worth exploring.

Another option is for dole recipients who are sick and tired of being the scapegoats for wealthy speculators both individual and financial institutions, should consider marching through the streets of Dublin en masse. Thats the only time you are going to be listened to.

Thats just my 2 cents worth, as a dole recipient of 19 months, of which nearly 3 months waiting for the soft transition from jobseekers benefit to jobseekers allowance. I dont want to be here, I have no choice. And it angers me to here people with jobs saying I should live on less. I,ve paid all my contributions, my constitutional rights guarantee me adequate support, not poverty.

kadman

irish_bob

kadman wrote: »

I would assume from your post, that you have a job, so you dont need to sustain your self on the dole rate. If my assumption is incorrect, I apologise.

I dont know any member of the government, that could live on the social welfare rates as they stand, I,d be interested in hearing about one trying.

I,m only aware of one person on this thread that can manage on a reduced rate of dole. If I,m wrong, again , accept my apologies. Some posts on this thread seem to forget that the current crisis here was not caused by high dole rates. It was caused by speculative greed of non dole recipients.

Dole recipients are an easy target, thats why they are going to get hit.

I agree that its time for people to start thinking with their heads.Unfortunately when they do, they will see that shopping north of the border is a cheaper option , than shopping here. Their reduced dole money will more than compensate for the difference in their cuts. And they will get more bang for their buck there. As your choices are limited, and you need to get the most for your money, this is an option worth exploring.

Another option is for dole recipients who are sick and tired of being the scapegoats for wealthy speculators both individual and financial institutions, should consider marching through the streets of Dublin en masse. Thats the only time you are going to be listened to.

Thats just my 2 cents worth, as a dole recipient of 19 months, of which nearly 3 months waiting for the soft transition from jobseekers benefit to jobseekers allowance. I dont want to be here, I have no choice. And it angers me to here people with jobs saying I should live on less. I,ve paid all my contributions, my constitutional rights guarantee me adequate support, not poverty.

kadman

the country is 20 billion short of revenue , the level of wellfare payments are unsustainable , its not a question of whether you can live on 204 a week ( which i believe one can easily btw) , besides , you dont become instantly poor and relying on dole overnight after loosing your job , most of the new unemployed are construction workers , to the last carpent , sparky and brickie , theese people have had ten golden years , they should not be now relying on thier weekly dole payments as thier only means , ever heard of dipping into savings , if a carpenter on 60 k a year ( and thats what most of them were on ) spent all his money on a 5 bed 250 sqr metre house for his wife and one child then dont expect the state to bail him out now with his huge mortgage

the people who are on the dole are not the ones who will get this country out of the ditch , surely you understand that its the people who are still standing on the battlefield who have to be made priority , theese are the people who have to be given the breaks

wellfare payments or cuts in public sector wages have to be cut and since this goverment is owned by unions , the former is the only option

skearon

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The dole should be a proportion of what you've paid into PRSI. That would mean that hard-working people who've lost their jobs aren't forced into hardship; whereas those who never worked a day in their lives aren't incentivised.

Absolutely, its crazy that someone who has worked, paid PRSI, ends up getting the same payment as a person who's never worked and never contributed.

skearon

hellboy99 wrote: »

Firstly it's not ridiculously generous, say that to the many families struggling to get by on it, and secondly get rid of all the non-nationals flying in to sign on and all the scammers.

Since May 2004 a person must be 'habitually resident' in order to qualify for welfare, see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/social-assistance-payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland. I agree all scammers should be dealt with, starting with any able bodied person who refused to work during the celtic tiger years when we had 50,000 people a year coming in to the country to take up employment, whilst at the same time 155,000 native Irish refused to work.

It is ridiculously generous when compared to other countries, especially our nearest neighbour, the UK. The country simply cannot afford to continue to pay such rates, if we do the country will become insolvent, resulting in the IMF taking over and implementing cuts many times larger than what is currently being proposed.

Plus the proposed 10% cut is really only a 1% cut in real terms when you factor in the fact that welfare rates were increased up to to 4% last year to allow for inflation, yet we've had 5% deflation.

97i9y3941

they can apply cuts to the dole people because the gov dont have to worried about been sued over contracts signed rubbish,this is on front page of irish indepenent today

Fraudsters flew in to claim dole payments

Non-nationals cheated the State out of millions of euro

By Senan Moloney
Thursday July 02 2009

NON-national dole cheats defrauded millions of euro from the Exchequer by flying into the country once a month to sign on.

New figures obtained by the Irish Independent show thousands of foreign benefit claimants were investigated by the Department of Social and Family Affairs between October 2007 and February last year.

In a first trawl of suspected benefit fraudsters, 776 non-national cases were examined, of which 76 were found to be permanently living outside of the State.

Officials were so alarmed they ordered residency checks on a further 3,665 non-nationals, and found that 403 (11pc) of these were living outside the State and flying in once a month to collect their benefit.

The vast majority of the claimants were from Eastern European countries.

Both investigations between them yielded savings of more than €4m -- or up to €10,000 per dole cheat -- for the cash-strapped Exchequer.

The fraudsters had been getting the cash wired to bank accounts in Ireland, while flying here once a month to sign on at their local dole office.

Even with the deduction of flight costs, each claimant took home nearly €1,000 a month.

The revelation raised questions about the full extent of the fraud, which has still to be fully quantified.

Urgent nationwide residency checks were introduced for all non-Irish claimants on jobseekers' benefits after evidence of the widespread fraud became apparent last year.

The revelation comes as gloomy new figures confirmed that record numbers are now signing on the Live Register.

The Central Statistics Office confirmed almost 200,000 people lost their jobs last year.

Unemployment has soared to a 13-year-high, with a total of 413,500 signing on the dole.

This is a 92pc rise on last year, and more than two-and-a-half times the number of jobless compared to the same period in 2007.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen yesterday gave his strongest hint yet that social welfare payments will be hit as the Government attempts to claw back up to €5bn in savings identified by An Bord Snip Nua, the state agency tasked with balancing the Budget books.

"We need €72m a week to maintain the current level of services.

"The Government is not in a position ad infinitum, or over the short term, to maintain that level of deficit," Mr Cowen said.

"Look at what people in employment must face in terms of reduced pay, increased levies or taxes, or the various policies we have had to implement," he added.

The Government is also set to continue its clampdown on benefit fraud and 'welfare tourism' as it desperately seeks to cut the soaring welfare bill.

The anti-fraud drive involved a home visit to check residency within six weeks of the first signing on day. These were followed up by further visits at between six and eight months and at one year.

The frequency of the visits was varied so as not to establish a predictable pattern.

Checks

"In response to the findings of these initial checks, it was considered that a more targeted control approach to residency was required," a spokesman for Social Welfare Minister Mary Hanafin told the Irish Independent.

In view of the scale of scamming, the department decided from last July 2008 not to make electronic fund-transfer payments method available to new claimants.

They are now paid weekly to a post office of the claimant's choice.

This means that claimants must attend the post office weekly to collect their payment, and bring a photo ID, such as a passport, when signing for receipt of the cash.

From March this year, stricter identity checks were introduced in post offices for people collecting social welfare payments.

Meanwhile, border regions have put an increased emphasis on controls on claims from applicants with a previous address in Northern Ireland.

The frequency of issue of mail shots to validate continued entitlement to child benefit has also increased to one every three months for all non-nationals, the department said.

- Senan Moloney

skearon

Fred83 wrote: »

they can apply cuts to the dole people because the gov dont have to worried about been sued over contracts signed rubbish,this is on front page of irish indepenent today

Which is precisely the reason to cut the level of our overly generous dole, plus proves there is a requirement for additional strict anti fraud measures.

kadman

irish_bob wrote: »

the country is 20 billion short of revenue , the level of wellfare payments are unsustainable , its not a question of whether you can live on 204 a week ( which i believe one can easily btw) , besides , you dont become instantly poor and relying on dole overnight after loosing your job , most of the new unemployed are construction workers , to the last carpent , sparky and brickie , theese people have had ten golden years , they should not be now relying on thier weekly dole payments as thier only means , ever heard of dipping into savings , if a carpenter on 60 k a year ( and thats what most of them were on ) spent all his money on a 5 bed 250 sqr metre house for his wife and one child then dont expect the state to bail him out now with his huge mortgage

the people who are on the dole are not the ones who will get this country out of the ditch , surely you understand that its the people who are still standing on the battlefield who have to be made priority , theese are the people who have to be given the breaks

wellfare payments or cuts in public sector wages have to be cut and since this goverment is owned by unions , the former is the only option

You are making too many generalisations in your argument. The people who are the priority, are the less well off in society, in my opinion. Whether they are on the dole or working. I,m not differentiating between the two. You are.

Your argument is that the dole recipients should be hit, because wealthy parts of society took the billions out of the economy, and the government cant/wont retrieve it from them, so welfare is an easier target, because they can stop it at source.

If you think that dole is a better option than paid employment, I,m sure you would find some one here to swap with you.

The state encouraged the carpenter to buy his 250 sq metre house, do you not remember Berties speech. Now the IMF are saying that this countries monetary policies were flawed. Thats why Cowan got his wrists slapped in the last couple of weeks. And you dont want to give these people support. You want to penalise them. But you are happy to support private corporations with your taxes.

Your assumption that every chippy was paid 60k. is totally incorrect. I was employed for an ICF company as a Technical Manager, and I was on less money, and the chippies there were on less than 60k.And you seem to have forgotten a very important part of the entitlement to dole. Your savings are taken into account in any means test. And as already outlined in earlier posts, you may not even qualify for 204, it could be an awful lot less.

Dole recipients are not standing in your battlefield, they are the casualties. And you want to give them the "coup de grace". You dont shoot your wounded, you nurse them back to health.


kadman

Spudmonkey

kadman wrote: »

Your argument is that the dole recipients should be hit, because wealthy parts of society took the billions out of the economy, and the government cant/wont retrieve it from them, so welfare is an easier target, because they can stop it at source.

Like has been said before, spending 70 odd million a week is unsustainable, you can tax people, companies etc to the hilt all you want, but it can't happen forever.

The two largest expenditures the government have are dole and CS wages. Both these need to be cut equally.

kadman wrote: »

If you think that dole is a better option than paid employment, I,m sure you would find some one here to swap with you.

I'm sure no one would like to swap, not if they need their job to pay for mortgages, loans etc. But if you keep taxing people and not reduce social welfare payouts, some people might have the idea, whats the point of working, I'd be getting as much from the state.

If the current situtation continues, taxpayers will be paying so much tax, they will be on the same as what they would be on the dole. This would be a ludicrous situation

kadman wrote: »

The state encouraged the carpenter to buy his 250 sq metre house, do you not remember Berties speech.

The state may have encouraged the carpenter, but it was still his choice! He went to the bank, he filled out the forms, he accepted the responsibility.

It's called free will, people can make up their own minds. They could have choosen to listen to Bertie's (bad) advice or they could have said no! Don't try pawn off responsibility on someone else!

kadman

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Like has been said before, spending 70 odd million a week is unsustainable, you can tax people, companies etc to the hilt all you want, but it can't happen forever.

The two largest expenditures the government have are dole and CS wages. Both these need to be cut equally.



I'm sure no one would like to swap, not if they need their job to pay for mortgages, loans etc. But if you keep taxing people and not reduce social welfare payouts, some people might have the idea, whats the point of working, I'd be getting as much from the state.

If the current situtation continues, taxpayers will be paying so much tax, they will be on the same as what they would be on the dole. This would be a ludicrous situation



The state may have encouraged the carpenter, but it was still his choice! He went to the bank, he filled out the forms, he accepted the responsibility.

It's called free will, people can make up their own minds. They could have choosen to listen to Bertie's (bad) advice or they could have said no! Don't try pawn off responsibility on someone else!

As i,ve said before, its not the dole recipients that haved caused the problem. Take the money from the people who have caused it. Instead we are giving taxpayers money to those who have caused it. But you dont appear to have a problem with that,why. Your view attempts to give the impression that your taxes are only going to support the less well off in society. What about your taxes going to the people who have caused this mess. Is that not unjust.

Again you are picking an easy target.

kadman

Spudmonkey

kadman wrote: »

As i,ve said before, its not the dole recipients that haved caused the problem. Take the money from the people who have caused it. Instead we are giving taxpayers money to those who have caused it. But you dont appear to have a problem with that,why. Your view attempts to give the impression that your taxes are only going to support the less well off in society. What about your taxes going to the people who have caused this mess. Is that not unjust.

Again you are picking an easy target.

kadman

Never said they were.

Who are the people who caused it? The banks? The property developers?

Or alternatively those who bought into the hype of the Celtic Tiger and had to have the latest accessory, be this house, car, clothes, gadgets....

Alas the country needs banks, to dispense credit, to hold deposits etc. There is no point leaving the ones there go into liquidation as at least whatever experience they have with banking, it's more than whatever the government would have should they set up their own. There are also a lot of people who have deposits and such with these banks and they should not be punished for other peoples actions. Besides the IMF acknowledge that the bailing out of the banks is the correct action to take.

Whatever assets property developers have are most likely going to be in property, and while I do think they should have all their assets seized (plus whatever cash they might have), it's going to be futile exercise. It is not going to make up the shortfall

daveyboy_1ie

We can all agree that dole payments are very high here compared to other countries but so are our living costs. People who ar eon the dole long term have already been stripped of their dignity so now people want to stip them of their houses?

People are entitled to look after their families and that means accomadation and living expenses, it ain't their fault the country is in the mess it is, blame our government and speculators who between them collapsed our banking system and never had any checks to ensure it never happened.

So of course we can't afford to carry on long term the way we are but the world will kop on within a year or two and then we can follow suit because do you know what, we were the main contry in Europe who flourished in good times and we can get that way again when the tide turns, we just have to stay positive.

My parents tell me the 80's recession was a lot worse than this one, its just now people are fighting to keep their houses a lot more than back then whoch makes everybody on edge, also our system does not allow people to simply walk away from owing money if they lose their homes, the debt will be over them for always as banks NEVER lose!!!

skearon

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

We can all agree that dole payments are very high here compared to other countries but so are our living costs. People who ar eon the dole long term have already been stripped of their dignity so now people want to stip them of their houses?

You're missing an important point - why were these people on long term dole in the first place, why where the claiming during a period when anyone who wanted a job could get one?

Living costs were higher here, but never three times that of the UK.

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

People are entitled to look after their families and that means accomadation and living expenses, it ain't their fault the country is in the mess it is, blame our government and speculators who between them collapsed our banking system and never had any checks to ensure it never happened.

No problem with first part of sentence, however 'living expenses' should not include going to pub each day, nor Sky Sports.

The international financial crisis is the main cause of our problems, along with people's own actions as no one was forced to buy a house, change their car every year, go on holidays 3 times a year etc.

And if they are able bodied and refused to work, when jobs where available, then they are contributing to the current financial problems.

Darragh29

ciano6 wrote: »

God help you if you honestly think there will be alot more jobs in 2-3 years. Alot more than what? There are 100,000s of jobs going to be lost by all forecasts in the next 18months. And then you think that there will be 2 or 300,000 jobs created just to bring it back to this terrible level? Maybe 20 years. Maybe:(

You beat me too it. It is going to take somewhere in the region of two generations, that's generally understood to be around 50 years, to create 500,000 jobs...

kadman

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Never said they were

.

Then why is the brunt of your argument aimed at reducing dole rates further. Why dont you also give equal argument towards the speculators, banks, developers ect.

Whatever assets property developers have are most likely going to be in property, and while I do think they should have all their assets seized (plus whatever cash they might have), it's going to be futile exercise. It is not going to make up the shortfall

Its not going to make up the shortfall, but you are anxious to cut dole, before you even identify those who have caused the problem. Its the easy target.

Originally Posted by Spudmonkey

It's called free will, people can make up their own minds. They could have choosen to listen to Bertie's (bad) advice or they could have said no! Don't try pawn off responsibility on someone else!

Then whay have the banks done it.
You could equally apply that same analogy to the banks, and developers, and speculators. They have pawned their losses off onto the taxpayer, but you dont have a problem with supporting the banks.

kadman

harsea8

Darragh29 wrote: »

You beat me too it. It is going to take somewhere in the region of two generations, that's generally understood to be around 50 years, to create 500,000 jobs...

Why? According to this report 800,000 jobs were created in the 15 years between 1990 and 2005 (see quote " From 1990 to 2005, employment soared from 1.1 million to 1.9 million." here: http://www.heritage.org/research/worldwidefreedom/bg1945.cfm). Obviously that was an unprecedented boom time, but saying we are f*cked for the next 50 years is ridiculous. No-one (on this board or elsewhere) has a bloody clue how things will pan out for the economy and employment over the next 5-10 years, let alone 50....all we can do is guess!

irish_bob

kadman wrote: »

Spudmonkey wrote: »

.

Then why is the brunt of your argument aimed at reducing dole rates further. Why dont you also give equal argument towards the speculators, banks, developers ect.







Its not going to make up the shortfall, but you are anxious to cut dole, before you even identify those who have caused the problem. Its the easy target.


Then whay have the banks done it.
You could equally apply that same analogy to the banks, and developers, and speculators. They have pawned their losses off onto the taxpayer, but you dont have a problem with supporting the banks.

kadman

you must work in the public sector , no one in the private sector so readily uses to many union tutores cliched rhetoric , THOSE WHO CAUSED IT , THE BANKERS , DEVELOPERS , the usual banners

bad politics cause the mess we are in beit with bad and corrupt planning descisions , inapropriate relationships with vested interests , be it with developers or with unions and the complete and utter vote buying exerices that was benchmarking , all of theese weak political descisions have brought the irish people to where it is , it was the state in nearly all cases the fcuked up royaly

as for the cost of living for those on the dole , the cost of living will drop in tandem with the reduction in dole payments , thats who it works , retailers cannot keep prices high when thier customers purchasing power is reduced , they can but they wont sell anything , retailers can only charge what the market will allow and due to unemployed people having too much state money to play with , prices stay high , business live and die by the market and the market is not like the state , it doesnt take six months to adapt to change