Dole

dreamlogic

snubbleste wrote: »

I wish!
The reason for JA is at the current rate is because the social partners negotiated increases to a third of the average industrial wage which is what happened. However, now the average industrial wage is falling through paycuts etc., so the dole should fall in line with that.
Maximum unemployment payment rates for individual in:
2002 €118.80
2003 €124.80
2004 €134.80
2005 €148.80
2006 €165.80
2007 €185.80
2008 €197.80
2009 €204.30

Those increases were justified. In the early 2000s any dole increases were barely in line with inflation for the previous years. What usually happens with any significant welfare increases is they are a few years overdue when they do happen. So the increases in more recent years were what should really have been applied during the higher inflation years of the early 2000s(before and after the introduction of the euro).

jank wrote: »

Also the figures are striking.

Since 2002 the dole has increased by 72%........So in 7 years it has gone up by almost 3/4.....

Now cost of living has gone up too but by 72% I dont think so.

Increases are usually calculated on a yearly basis, so to say it's leaped by 70%, "almost 3/4" etc. is to misrepresent the reality somewhat.

kadman

jank wrote: »

Says who?

I think its a fair yardstick, or do you have a different one.

Could any one that advocates living on E204 a week in normal day to day situations, please post how its done. I,d be very interested to see it.

Why should those that have very little be required to live on less. Is that the measure of a just moral society. I personally believe that we should be protecting and helping the less well off. The next thing will be reducing the old age pension, fuel allowance. Where do you want the line drawn.

Are all the advocates of cutting the dole, currently in full time employment???

kadman

kadman

jank wrote: »

Says who?

It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
Hubert H. Humphrey
US politician (1911 - 1978)

He moved on from there to a series of positions with wartime agencies. In 1943, he ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of Minneapolis and returned to teaching as a visiting professor at Macalester College in St. Paul. Between 1943 and 1945, Humphrey worked at a variety jobs, including teaching at Macalester, serving as a news commentator for radio station WTCN, and managing an apartment building. In 1945, he was elected Mayor of Minneapolis and served until 1948. In 1948, at the Democratic National Convention, he gained national attention when he delivered a stirring speech in favor of a strong civil rights plank in the party's platform. In November of 1948, voters in Minnesota elected Humphrey to the United States Senate. While in the Senate, he was known as a Senate liberal, working on issues of civil rights, social welfare, and fair employment. He served as the Senate Democratic Whip from 1961 to 1964.

In 1964, at the Democratic National Convention, President Lyndon B. Johnson asked the convention to select Humphrey as the Vice Presidential nominee. The ticket was elected in November in a Democratic landslide. In 1968, Humphrey was the Democratic Party's candidate for President, but he was defeated narrowly by Richard M. Nixon. After the defeat, Humphrey returned to Minnesota to teach at the University of Minnesota and Macalester College. He returned to the U.S. Senate in 1971, and he won re-election in 1976. He died January 13, 1978 of cancer. After Humphrey's death, the governor of Minnesota appointed Humphrey's wife, Muriel Buck Humphrey, to fill the vacant Senate seat. She served until November 7, 1978, and was not a candidate for the unexpired term.

Hubert Humphrey's papers are located at the Minnesota Historical Society in St. Paul, Minnesota; the phone number is: 651-296-2143

I believe that the quotes and details, are one and the same person, but I took the details from 2 different sites, and I am open to correction on this. I,m not going to split hairs on the word for word comparison between this quote, and my original post, as I feel that basically each is the same. But I,m not going to argue the point with you, as its taking us off topic.


kadman

InFront

kadman wrote: »

Could any one that advocates living on E204 a week in normal day to day situations, please post how its done. I,d be very interested to see it.

Yes.
Imagine that Robert is twenty five years old and single, he is out of work and is receiving Jobseeker's Assistance a the full rate of €204/ wk. His rent is €95/ week in a house he shares with two friends in Dublin. He receives social welfare assistance in paying his rent to the amount of €77/ week, which will decrease to €71/ week from the 1st of June.

This leaves Robert with a disposable income after rent of €186 per week which will fall to €180/ week from the 1st of June 2009.

Lets say Robert spends €50/ week on groceries, this leaves €136 per week for Robert in his pocket after his accomodation and food have been paid for.

Could I live on this? Yes.

kadman

InFront wrote: »

Yes.
Imagine that Robert is twenty five years old and single, he is out of work and is receiving Jobseeker's Assistance a the full rate of €204/ wk. His rent is €95/ week in a house he shares with two friends in Dublin. He receives social welfare assistance in paying his rent to the amount of €77/ week, which will decrease to €71/ week from the 1st of June.

This leaves Robert with a disposable income after rent of €186 per week which will fall to €180/ week from the 1st of June 2009.

Lets say Robert spends €50/ week on groceries, this leaves €136 per week for Robert in his pocket after his accomodation and food have been paid for.

Could I live on this? Yes.

Don,t stop now, please give the rest of the breakdown of all the bills . Thanks.

kadman


kadman

Hasschu

There is a story behind most things. Governments are usually reluctant to put hundreds of thousands of 18 to 35 year olds in a position where they have to steal to survive or worse organize to violently overthrow the government. Old age pensions were introduced after the 1st world war to dislodge the old from their jobs so as the returning soldiers could find a job. During the depression (1930s) pensions were expanded to create even more jobs. Various forms of help to the unemployed were also introduced in the 1930s, soup kitchens, work camps and what we know today as the dole. The dole is the best way to promote social stability for without it street crime and other forms of antisocial activity would be rampant. I have worked in many countries with little or no social support they all have a few things in common. Twelve foot walls topped with broken glass and barbed wire, guard dogs, most people carrying small arms, beggars, muggers ... Hopefully things will not descend to that in Ireland. However the greed that drove the boom could also cut the social safety nets leading to anarchy or worse. The pressure reliever of old was emigration, that is not an option now and with billions going to the rich the anger of the underprivileged has to be taken into account. I hope things turn out for the best.

InFront

kadman wrote: »

Don,t stop now, please give the rest of the breakdown of all the bills . Thanks.

kadman
kadman

Sure

Robert is on a wage of €544 for four weeks after his food and rent has been paid for.
Electricity (€270 for two months, divided by three housemates, then halved to calculate one month) = €45
Heating at €180 per month divided by three = €60
Robert lives in Rathmines and spends about €60 per month travelling into town to meet his friends and going to job interviews
He contributes to broadband at €10 per month
He spends €30 per month on phone credit
He gets a haircut once a month and it costs him €12 in Rathmines

This leaves over €327 per month for Robert to spend on any other non essential items. His rent, electricity, groceries, travelling, broadband, phone credit, and haircut have been paid for. He is saving for a holiday at the moment.

Again, could I live with this? Yes absolutely.

kadman

InFront wrote: »

Sure

Robert is on a wage of €544 for four weeks after his food and rent has been paid for.
Electricity (€270 for two months, divided by three housemates, then halved to calculate one month) = €45
Heating at €180 per month divided by three = €60
Robert lives in Rathmines and spends about €60 per month travelling into town to meet his friends and going to job interviews
He contributes to broadband at €10 per month
He spends €30 per month on phone credit
He gets a haircut once a month and it costs him €12 in Rathmines

This leaves over €327 per month for Robert to spend on any other non essential items. His rent, electricity, groceries, travelling, broadband, phone credit, and haircut have been paid for. He is saving for a holiday at the moment.

Again, could I live with this? Yes absolutely.

Lucky old Robert. Hes got E80 per week left.

He has no need for clothes, shoes, medical requirements, tv lisense, emergency spend. He cant participate in social interaction with his family members, which are not non essential items.

And isn,t he a very lucky boy to be living with 3 others to subsidise the bills. And sure he has got public transport as well, that,ll save him a bundle.

If he lives in the boonies in kerry with no public transport, and on his own he cant survive on 204. He would have to have pay his own transport, and he would not have his flatmates to subsidise his bills for him. Should we all move to Dublin then.

Your argument proves that he cant live on his own on 204. thanks:)


kadman

Belfast

googlehead wrote: »

i myself am on the Dole at the moment after being laid of my work several months ago.there is alot of chat about cutting the dole, some people saying the dole should be cut and others saying it shouldn't as alot of people like myself who have always worked are now suffering the effects of a recession and should get help at this time.i don't think it should be cut at this time. but I think in the next 2-3 years when hopefully this recession and there is alot more jobs(hopefully) that the govenment should seriously take a look at cutting the dole ,also i think people on the dole for over 2-3 years, should be made to do a course and find employment.

I say cut it and cut it now.

InFront

kadman wrote: »

He has no need for clothes, shoes, medical requirements, tv lisense, emergency spend. He cant participate in social interaction with his family members, which are not non essential items.

Actually that's covered by €327 he has per month after paying for his rent in Dublin, his electricity, heating, groceries, travel expenses, haircut, mobile phone costs and his broadband in the apartment. There are people working who don't have that much left over.

Okay lets go one step further. Lets say he spends €80 per month on clothes shopping. His TV licence breaks down at €4 per four weeks for his share. Any medical expenses are not an issue because Robert can go to the Doctor and get drugs for free since his only source of income is the Dole, therefore he has medical card.

Now Roberts rent, accomodation, electricity, heating, travelling, mobile phone costs, haircut, broadband, clothes, and television licence have been paid for as well as his medical and drug expenses. He is left with a grand total of €243 per month for emergency spending and keping in contact with his family and adding to his savings.

Do you still maintain that one cannot survive on the dole in day to day expenses?

If he lives in the boonies in kerry with no public transport, and on his own he cant survive on 204.

Oh for goodness sake... if he lives n his own he gets additional rental assistance from social welfare.

I deliberately chose Dublin where the cost of living and renting are higher. All of his utility bills are deliberately higher than my own bills have been here in Dublin over the past two months You are the one who is wrong here and it is quite obvious.

What gets to me is that lots of people will have living conditions that re much much easier than Robert's - i.e. those who live with their parents and where utiity bills and rent is not an issue.

kadman

InFront wrote: »

Actually that's covered by €327 he has per month after paying for his rent in Dublin, his electricity, heating, groceries, travel expenses, haircut, mobile phone costs and his broadband in the apartment. There are people working who don't have that much left over.

Okay lets go one step further. Lets say he spends €80 per month on clothes shopping. His TV licence breaks down at €4 per four weeks for his share. Any medical expenses are not an issue because Robert can go to the Doctor and get drugs for free since his only source of income is the Dole, therefore he has medical card.

Now Roberts rent, accomodation, electricity, heating, travelling, mobile phone costs, haircut, broadband, clothes, and television licence have been paid for as well as his medical and drug expenses. He is left with a grand total of €243 per month for emergency spending and keping in contact with his family and adding to his savings.

Do you still maintain that one cannot survive on the dole in day to day expenses?


Oh for goodness sake... if he lives n his own he gets additional rental assistance from social welfare.

I deliberately chose Dublin where the cost of living and renting are higher. All of his utility bills are deliberately higher than my own bills have been here in Dublin over the past two months You are the one who is wrong here and it is quite obvious.

What gets to me is that lots of people will have living conditions that re much much easier than Robert's - i.e. those who live with their parents and where utiity bills and rent is not an issue.

You have conveninetly left out the fact that if he has no access to public transport, then he will have to provide his own. And you fail to accept that there are lots of people that ar far worse off than Robert.

What gets to me is the fact that some believe that life on the dole is better than a full time position in employment. Its not. I cannot understand the mindset of people that want to penalise those on the dole further. Those on the dole are victims of the current financial crisis, not the cause of it.

If the general consensus of the working population is that 204 is enough to live on, then maybe they should offer to accept that level as a wage for a short term, in order to assist the country in returning to financial stability.

If social welfare existence is so enticing to some people they should maybe leave their existing jobs, and go for it.

kadman

I just noticed in your last post that he had 327e for non essential items, and now you are saying that he has it to spend on essential items.

This leaves over €327 per month for Robert to spend on any other non essential items

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadman
He has no need for clothes, shoes, medical requirements, tv lisense, emergency spend. He cant participate in social interaction with his family members, which are not non essential items.

Actually that's covered by €327 he has per month after paying for his rent in Dublin, his electricity, heating, groceries, travel expenses, haircut, mobile phone costs and his broadband in the apartment. There are people working who don't have that much left over.

jank

dreamlogic wrote: »

Increases are usually calculated on a yearly basis, so to say it's leaped by 70%, "almost 3/4" etc. is to misrepresent the reality somewhat.

Well it is what is is... The figures are right there. What is your reality....

jank

Speaking from my experience. When I worked in ebay during the summer of 2005 I was finishing up my Masters. I worked 2 shifts a week where I got 190 euro per week. My rent was 95 a week (on campus accom) which was expensive but worth it. Accom included power, heat (it was summer so wasn't needed) and broadband. I had a car which I was able to but petrol into if I needed and of course food drink etc....

Now I as able to survive on my own on 190 a week. Yea it was $hit but I could live, go on the piss a few times a month while finishing up my studies.

Before that I didn't have a job so I took out a loan to cover me from the previous September to May. The loan was about 5000 euro... Yea thats right i lived on 5000 for about 8 months. That is well within the amount one would get on the dole. This covered rent, food and all other bills, yea it was ****...but I was studying and was still able to go on the pi$$ once and a while...

If you have very little money you would surprise yourself on how far you can actually go on very little. When you are working you blow it all on crap you don't need.... It is just the way it is. I am not saying that someone with a family could live on 204 a week but there are many single people out there who are living in cheap digs or at home who do not need 204 a week.

InFront

kadman wrote: »

You have conveninetly left out the fact that if he has no access to public transport, then he will have to provide his own.

Can you name any medium sized town in Ireland that has no public transport?
If not then Robert has an extra €60 per month on top of his curent disposable income of €243 to pay for taxis or whatever other arrangement he can find. I don't know, maybe a lift.

I'm not sure what you expect the Dole to be. It isn't a high paying career, nobody is claiing that. I am meely responding to your question of how anybody could feasibly live on the dole. Of course they can, they do, such as in Robert's example I've just illustrated.

What gets to me is the fact that some believe that life on the dole is better than a full time position in employment.

Robert has €744 per 4 weeks AFTER he pays his rent in Dublin and he is on the Dole.
This is a very high rate of payment.

I'm not saying he is better off on the dole, just countering your earlier argument when you said you would like proof that it is possible to live on the Dole. It absolutely is.

I would advocate a drop of six to seven percent in job seekers assistance payments for 2010 and a far more rigorous scheme of means testing for those jobseekers who are living at home with their parents and do not as such have to contribute to their upkeep or costs of running the household.

I would also like to point out that people such as Robert (above) are entitled to work on Sundays at a treble rate of pay without it impacting on dole payments, rent assistance, or medical card entitlement.

thebman

InFront wrote: »

Can you name any medium sized town in Ireland that has no public transport?

So only people in medium sized towns or larger get laid off?

Many towns don't have access to public transport in many of these towns and rural areas. There are no buses to industrial estates where jobs are or to shops. There are taxis but they aren't cheap anyway, more expensive since regulatory introduced new pricing changes too.

I'm not sure what you expect the Dole to be. It isn't a high paying career, nobody is claiing that. I am meely responding to your question of how anybody could feasibly live on the dole. Of course they can, they do, such as in Robert's example I've just illustrated.

I think the real point is would it be possible to live on it if it was reduced seriously not is it possible to live on it now. Of course it is possible to survive on it now, nobody is saying it should be increased at the moment anyway.

Your suggesting it should be cut so it is up to you to show that it is so generous that it can be cut and not push people below the poverty line or make it so they can't survive. You want change, prove it is necessary. So far you've been leaving out expenses to try to back up your claims which isn't a proper way of demonstrating anything IMO.

The people that can't even be bothered to try to detail why it is too generous are worse for just wanting to attack the poorest to make themselves feel better that the government is doing something about the economy.

I'm for cuts but only in line with the cost of living at the same time as minimum wage is reduced and this should be evaluated to ensure it is safe to do so and won't seriously effect a lot of people on the dole to the point that they can't survive. I don't think random figures should be thrown out on boards or statements should be made that the dole should be slashed without backing them up if people are going to make such statements. So far nobody has been able to back themselves up sufficiently.

You have to run a car in the countryside to get to job interviews and to actually be able to even apply for some jobs as it will be stated on the job application that it is a requirement. These jobs exist in the town and city and for some careers it is absolutely so if your saying they shouldn't be allowed run a car on the dole, your saying they shouldn't be allowed continue down their current career path and should apply for jobs they aren't qualified for instead of the ones they are which are jobs they are less likely to get anyway if they aren't qualified.

kadman

InFront wrote: »

Can you name any medium sized town in Ireland that has no public transport?

What happens when you live 10 mile from any town.

If not then Robert has an extra €60 per month on top of his curent disposable income of €243 to pay for taxis or whatever other arrangement he can find. I don't know, maybe a lift.

Between insurance,tax,nct,maintainence,petrol 243e would soon be gone.

I'm not sure what you expect the Dole to be. It isn't a high paying career, nobody is claiing that. I am meely responding to your question of how anybody could feasibly live on the dole. Of course they can, they do, such as in Robert's example I've just illustrated.

I am expecting the dole to be at the level to keep someone above the poverty line as laid down by eu criteria, cutting it would put more people into poverty. I dont expect it to be a career for any one..........

I would advocate a drop of six to seven percent in job seekers assistance payments for 2010 and a far more rigorous scheme of means testing for those jobseekers who are living at home with their parents and do not as such have to contribute to their upkeep or costs of running the household.

Why would a reduction suit you, .How more rigorous do you want to make the means testing. Have you undergone means testing recently. Why is it not rigorous enough for you.

I would also like to point out that people such as Robert (above) are entitled to work on Sundays at a treble rate of pay without it impacting on dole payments, rent assistance, or medical card entitlement.[/

QUOTE]

Is that your opinion, or do you know that for a fact

kadman

InFront

thebman wrote: »

I think the real point is would it be possible to live on it if it was reduced seriously not is it possible to live on it now. Of course it is possible to survive on it now, nobody is saying it should be increased at the moment anyway.

Your suggesting it should be cut so it is up to you to show that it is so generous that it can be cut and not push people below the poverty line or make it so they can't survive. You want change, prove it is necessary. So far you've been leaving out expenses to try to back up your claims which isn't a proper way of demonstrating anything IMO.

This is very simple. I advocated cutting the dole by 7% initially for 2010. For Robert, this would amount to spending €65 on clothes instead of €80 and €25 on phone credit instead of €30 by texting from the net or other costcutig measures. It's a total of €14.28 reduction per week. He could still have €203 left over for miscellaneous spending after his rent, electricity, heating, broadband, food, transport, haircut, clothes, mobile phone use, medical expensive, prescription drugs and television licence were covered.

You have to run a car in the countryside to get to job interviews and to actually be able to even apply for some jobs as it will be stated on the job application that it is a requirement.

Look as I said I chose Dublin because it's where the cost ofliving is highest.

If you're talking about the countryside, then a lot of those factors in Robert's case are much lower and extra money is made available to Robert's €263 (no public ransport) left over income because he is now living in the country paying les rent with a lower cost of living.

Look, as an aside, I have spent a significant amount of time in the countryside as a student on placements and always without a car. Not everybody needs a car in the country and being on the dole is not a financial prohibition to maintaining one, even with a 7% dole cut

InFront

kadman wrote: »

InFront wrote: »

What happens when you live 10 mile from any town.

Family/ taxi/ save the dole money he has left over to maintain a car. Or you know what, move back home and save money while he's on the dole.

Between insurance,tax,nct,maintainence,petrol 243e would soon be gone.

Actually it's 303 because he's not paying for public transport. And his cost of living is cheaper in Kerry.

Why would a reduction suit you,

I'm talking about saving money for the exchequer. The shortfall that's currently in excess of €20 bilion

.How more rigorous do you want to make the means testing.

More rigorous in that 25 year olds living at home with their parents should actually have their parents incomes assessed for contributing towards their children, for example.

Have you undergone means testing recently. Why is it not rigorous enough for you.

No, I'm just sayng means testing cold be more rigorous see above.

Is that your opinion, or do you know that for a fact

The ability to work for treble pay on a Sunday, which is a gross wage of €181.65 for seven hours without it efectng your dole payments, is absolutely fact. In fact, they then pay the jobseekers allowance into your bank account, for some crazy reason.

So that would be a total weekly wage of €385.65 for one days work and six days dole.

Spudmonkey

Was just wondering, has the cost of living gone up so much in the past 3 years that those who could survive on 165 then would not be able to now? Surely the price of many things is coming back down to 2006 levels?

Rent seems to be coming down, groceries seem to be coming down, so do heating and energy. And why not get on a bike, I cycle to work most days it's fine (about 4km), saves a fortune on petrol!

I think the thing that annoys most people is that the fact that there were free loaders on the dole during the good years. They sit back and leave those recently laid off to fight their corner for them. If there was some way of taking these people off the payroll, it would make the system much fairer. Give more of the money to those who really need it and to those who have actually contributed.

Even with this though, it doesn't look like it's feasible to keep the same level of dole payouts. They will more than likely be reduced over the coming months and years!

kadman

Looks like Robert will have to walk, as on his disposable income he wont be able to afford a car,

Loan information
Monthly repayments on car loan €
Get a quote for a Tesco Loan

Car information
Type of car: Please select Saloon Hatchback Estate Supermini 4-wheel drive/utility vehicle Sports car Luxury car Engine capacity (c.c) Please select Not over 1,000 1,001 to 1,100 1,101 to 1,200 1,201 to 1,300 1,301 to 1,400 1,401 to 1,500 1,501 to 1,600 1,601 to 1,700 1,701 to 1,800 1,801 to 1,900 1,901 to 2,000 2,001 to 2,100 2,101 to 2,200 2,201 to 2,300 2,301 to 2,400 2,401 to 2,500 2,501 to 2,600 2,601 to 2,700 2,701 to 2,800 2,801 to 2,900 2,901 to 3,000 3,001 or more Annual mileage (approx) Please select 5,000 miles 10,000 miles 15,000 miles 20,000 miles 30,000 miles 40,000 miles
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Monthly petrol €138.25
Monthly service/parts €80.13
Total monthly cost for buying and running your car
The cost for running your car is €333.39 per month (including loan

kadman

InFront

Wait a minute... you want him to be able to buy a car on the dole???

Ok, no. The Dole doesn't cover that. Because it's the dole.

kadman

InFront wrote: »

Wait a minute... you want him to be able to buy a car on the dole???

Ok, no. The Dole doesn't cover that. Because it's the dole.

Now, now, it looks like you are not reading the posts correctly. Look again its a car running cost calculator. Loan repayments say o.oo

You wouldn,t be trying to mislead any one now would you. It seems you misread the issue of sunday working as well, naughty naughty.

Sunday work
If you work on Sunday calculating your means from employment is different than usual. Sunday is not counted as a day of work, so your daily means from Sunday are not taken into account for Jobseeker’s Allowance.

To calculate your means from employment:

You include your earnings from Sunday to get your assessable weekly earnings (see Step 1 above)
You include Sunday to find out if your assessable weekly earnings are over the limit (see Step 2 above)
You also include Sunday to find your average daily earnings (see Step 3 above)
However, you do not include Sunday to get your daily means (Step 4) or weekly means (Step 5) from work (see below).
If your part-time or casual work includes Sunday work, follow Steps 1 -3 as shown above. Then use Step 4 and Step 5 shown below to find your weekly means from work.


Example
Susan works 3 days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) and is paid €50 for working Friday, €50 for working Saturday and €50 for working on Sunday.

Follow Steps 1 to 3 above to get her average daily earnings.

Step 1: Assessable weekly earnings = €150

Step 2: €150 - €60 (3 days) = €90 x 60% = €54. Weekly means from work = €54

In this example, weekly means are below the basic JA payment, so you can go to Step 3

Step 3: (€150 ÷ 3*) = €50 *The number of days worked including Sunday is 3. Average daily earnings = €50



Step 4: Daily means from work

Would i be correct in saying that the means for sunday is disregarded, but the earnings are not.

kadman

astrofool

I've got to laugh at people including car running costs and mobile credit in the MINIMUM needed so someone can have food and shelter, no wonder the country is so f*cked. The dole is there to stop people starving and being homeless, not to give them any sort of life on top of that (there's plenty of free things to do).

The german model of social welfare eliminates a lot of the problems, but if you are long term jobless, your life has to be downsized to match.

truebluedub

Studies such as Wickham (2004) have shown that the lack of car ownership can adversely impact an individuals ability to get a job. It also plays a role in social exclusion.

kadman

astrofool wrote: »

I've got to laugh at people including car running costs and mobile credit in the MINIMUM needed so someone can have food and shelter, no wonder the country is so f*cked. The dole is there to stop people starving and being homeless, not to give them any sort of life on top of that (there's plenty of free things to do).

The german model of social welfare eliminates a lot of the problems, but if you are long term jobless, your life has to be downsized to match.

I suspect that your comment was aimed at me , so I shall respond to it. My car running cost was put up to prove what the accepted cost of running a car at the present time. Nothing more.

The country is ****ed up because you are now being asked to pay billions to bail out rich bankers and developers that have gambled with your money. You are now being asked to pay a debt that no one knows the true size of, and your increasing taxes will keep you servicing a debt, that is never ending.

If you believe that there will be any major improvement in the next couple of years, its because you cant face the prospect that it will get worse, before it gets better.

kadman

thebman

truebluedub wrote: »

Studies such as Wickham (2004) have shown that the lack of car ownership can adversely impact an individuals ability to get a job. It also plays a role in social exclusion.

Agree with this.

So many jobs in this country require a car to get to how the hell are you supposed to get to interviews?

You can't get a taxi everywhere. Taxi's are for people with money. Do the sums on whether it is cheaper to get taxi's everywhere or get a cheap car.

You have to get taxi to the shop and back. To any interviews and back. To anywhere else you have to go such as dentist or doctor etc... and back.

Outside of Dublin that is going to add up very quick.

InFront

kadman wrote: »

its a car running cost calculator.

I’ll take your point on the Sunday issue, though the point stands that a social welfare recipient would be able to keep a dole payment and end up earning €84 greater than €204 per week by the Sunday work set out earlier – that’s €1152 for four weeks including dole. Four days are employment, the rest is the dole. That's a major issue as far as I'm concerned.

But bak to our friend Robert and as regards the car issue, there are a number of problems with this on your behalf. Firstly, it doesn't cost have to cost €330per month to run a basic car. As it happens this is not very far off of his disposable income though.

In any case, he could cut down on petrol costs (€125, seriously) and he doesn't really need monthly breakdown cover. I find it bizarre that you think he requires €80 per month for parts and a mechanic's attention? Get real. I haven't paid that much on parts or mechanics in the last six months for my car.

But lets not forget that if you want to change the rules you have to change all the rules.

By living in the country where the cost of living is lower, robert will not be paying Dublin prices in food and rent, nor his transport costs of €60.

Eve though it looks as though he could afford a car on the dole if you adjust the cost of living from Dublin to Kerry, I propose nevertheless he uses his bike and public transport as much as possible. I'm sure he's still thinking about the environment. Also as a cost cutting measure, maybe save for car maintenance, maybe to save money to get a place in Dublin or a large jobs centre, maybe Robert could actually move in with his family for a while instead of living alone ten miles from the nearest town.

And before you suggest so, most people are not orphaned, single, alone and living 10 miles from the nearest town while on the dole so this is dealing strictly with a minority to humour you.

So many jobs in this country require a car to get to how the hell are you supposed to get to interviews?

Excluding what's been said already about the ability to pay for a car while on the dole, what ever happened to buses? Most people do live within reasonable distance to a bus. And whatever happened to getting a lift? Bikes? If things are that bad maybe you should consider taking up Robert's old life in Dublin as per the dole example.

thebullkf

InFront wrote: »

kadman wrote: »

Family/ taxi/ save the dole money he has left over to maintain a car. Or you know what, move back home and save money while he's on the dole.


Actually it's 303 because he's not paying for public transport. And his cost of living is cheaper in Kerry.


I'm talking about saving money for the exchequer. The shortfall that's currently in excess of €20 bilion


More rigorous in that 25 year olds living at home with their parents should actually have their parents incomes assessed for contributing towards their children, for example.


No, I'm just sayng means testing cold be more rigorous see above.



The ability to work for treble pay on a Sunday, which is a gross wage of €181.65 for seven hours without it efectng your dole payments, is absolutely fact. In fact, they then pay the jobseekers allowance into your bank account, for some crazy reason.

So that would be a total weekly wage of €385.65 for one days work and six days dole.

worked all me life.

never

ever

ever

got treble time for a sunday.

in a well run unionised shop.

you're talkin bollokcs


exeunt

thebullkf

astrofool wrote: »

I've got to laugh at people including car running costs and mobile credit in the MINIMUM needed so someone can have food and shelter, no wonder the country is so f*cked. The dole is there to stop people starving and being homeless, not to give them any sort of life on top of that (there's plenty of free things to do).

The german model of social welfare eliminates a lot of the problems, but if you are long term jobless, your life has to be downsized to match.

why don't you do them????????

instead of insulting peoples intelligence with your drivel.

thebullkf

InFront wrote: »

I’ll take your point on the Sunday issue, though the point stands that a social welfare recipient would be able to keep a dole payment and end up earning €84 greater than €204 per week by the Sunday work set out earlier – that’s €1152 for four weeks including dole. Four days are social welfare, the rest is the dole. That's a major issue as far as I'm concerned.

But bak to our friend Robert and as regards the car issue, there are a number of problems with this on your behalf. Firstly, it doesn't cost have to cost €330per month to run a basic car. As it happens this is not very far off of his disposable income though.

In any case, he could cut down on petrol costs (€125, seriously) and he doesn't really need monthly breakdown cover. I find it bizarre that you think he requires €80 per month for parts and a mechanic's attention? Get real. I haven't paid that much on parts or mechanics in the last six months for my car.

But lets not forget that if you want to change the rules you have to change all the rules.

By living in the country where the cost of living is lower, robert will not be paying Dublin prices in food and rent, nor his transport costs of €60.

Eve though it looks as though he could afford a car on the dole if you adjust the cost of living from Dublin to Kerry, I propose nevertheless he uses his bike and public transport as much as possible. I'm sure he's still thinking about the environment. Also as a cost cutting measure, maybe save for car maintenance, maybe to save money to get a place in Dublin or a large jobs centre, maybe Robert could actually move in with his family for a while instead of living alone ten miles from the nearest town.

And before you suggest so, most people are not orphaned, single, alone and living 10 miles from the nearest town while on the dole so this is dealing strictly with a minority to humour you.



Excluding what's been said already about the ability to pay for a car while on the dole, what ever happened to buses? Most people do live within reasonable distance to a bus. And whatever happened to getting a lift? Bikes? If things are that bad maybe you should consider taking up Robert's old life in Dublin as per the dole example.[/quote



whatrules???


the employers rules???


how many jobs are currently offered in kerry????



about 10&of the jobs in dublin.....therefore that implies....move to dublin!!!!!!!!!!


you're talkingvia your back door.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
please,please stop!