Passport, insurance etc ...

Lobelia Overhill

Now that I have a horse I've a few things I probably need to sort out! I've never seen a horse passport before (a blue one, partial breeding recorded), what do I do with that?

Anyone recommend an insurance company in Ireland?

What about vaccinations etc? I know some people don't bother with the whole rigmarole as it's an extra expense, the yard where I kept my pony 20 odd years ago did all these things for you and billed you for it afterwards regardless of your wishes ...

cheers!

Allianz are quite popular I believe for insurance.

You need the passport when transporting the horse (this includes menial things like going to the beach etc!) so make sure its with you as you can be stopped and asked for it.

For vaccinations, some places will specify that you must have horse vaccinated in order to enter a yard. Depends on what you will be doing with him I guess. I would also imagine it will be you who has to pay the cost of vaccination!

otwb

You'll need your vaccinations (ok, the horses vaccinations) done if you are going to compete at any level, I think riding clubs also look for the vaccinations if you are out an about but I'm open to correction on this.

I'm with Lloyds through a broker in Naas. Will pm you details.

Lobelia Overhill

Deleted User wrote: »

Allianz are quite popular I believe for insurance.

You need the passport when transporting the horse (this includes menial things like going to the beach etc!) so make sure its with you as you can be stopped and asked for it.

For vaccinations, some places will specify that you must have horse vaccinated in order to enter a yard. Depends on what you will be doing with him I guess. I would also imagine it will be you who has to pay the cost of vaccination!

Thanks for that, he's still in the same yard, so no "restrictions" on him I'm not doing much with him myself at the mo, but I am letting previous owner compete him for the rest of the season, so I dare say we'll thrash out what's what as we go along

otwb wrote: »

You'll need your vaccinations (ok, the horses vaccinations) done if you are going to compete at any level, I think riding clubs also look for the vaccinations if you are out an about but I'm open to correction on this.

I'm with Lloyds through a broker in Naas. Will pm you details.

Thanks for that

I'm assuming I need to re-register him as mine now, at least with the passport people if nothing else ... ? I haven't got a clue about the passport at all, t'is all new to me!

Good thing about it, I know his exact date of birth

Chindato

exactly what kind of insurance do you need?

The British Horse Society gives public liability insurance to all its Gold members - and yes this includes the Rep of Ireland.

This means that you are covered for any damage your horse does (all horses in your ownership - 1 or 100) to anyone or their property. You're also covered for anything that happens to anyone handling your horse with your permission.

If you're thinking of equine life insurance (death or loss of use), do your sums. The premium is usually 10% of the horse's value. And theses policies often stop coverage when the horse hits its mid teens. I have found that if a horse managed to survive 2 years without insurance, I would have saved enough to buy myself an adequate replacement. The loss of use side of things is usually so difficult as to be not worth the bother.

The other kind of insurance you can get is for medical costs. Read the small print *really well*. usually routine visits are excluded, as are any costs associated with known conditions. So weigh up the odds of how often you expect to have to spend thousands of euro on an emergency operation or the like.

FWIW, I don't insure except for public liability.

Lobelia Overhill

Chindato wrote: »

exactly what kind of insurance do you need?

The British Horse Society gives public liability insurance to all its Gold members - and yes this includes the Rep of Ireland.

I didn't know that! Can Irish people join the BHS then?

You learn something new every day!!

Yep, Irish people can join the BHS. Many do, just to get the insurance.

finbarrk

You can buy a flu vac and tetanus shot from your local vets shop. You can give it yourself if you feel up to it into the muscle on the neck. It's 1 shot first and another one after about 10 days.

Lobelia Overhill

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep, Irish people can join the BHS. Many do, just to get the insurance.

I think I'll do that then!

BTW is there an Irish "BHS"? I don't remember ever coming across one...

finbarrk wrote: »

You can buy a flu vac and tetanus shot from your local vets shop. You can give it yourself if you feel up to it into the muscle on the neck. It's 1 shot first and another one after about 10 days.

Ooo *cringe* dunno if I could! I can see the point of tetanus jabs, but is the flu one absolutely necessary...?

Also is there a vaccine or similar for Equine Infectious Anaemia? I saw on the Horse & Hound site that theres been an outbreak in France ... :eek:

MDFM

You are required, by law, to have a passport for your horse, regardless whether you compete with it or never leave the yard with it. Did the previous owner not have passport? In any case, how you decide to go about it is up to yourself. You can get your vet to do up the identity cert, markings etc and you can then send it off to the IHB - provided you don't know the breeding history of the animal, you will be issued with a white passport. if you have proven breeding (half or full) of the horse, then you will be issued either a green or blue passport. You are also required to microchip him if you wish to compete in affiliated showjumping (i'm not sure about other disciplines eg xc, dressage, could well be the same). If you don't wish to go down this route, you can get a passport from the Horse passport agency, which will basically cover you as regards having documentation for the horse..look up their website for further info, but they issue a valid certificate which will do as a passport. http://www.horsepassportagency.ie/

with regard to tetanus/flu jabs, you should certainly keep on top of these. ask the previous owner how often he/she vaccinated. The most common flu vaccine now used also contains a tetanus vaccine, well the ones we get our horses do anyway, so your vet will administer these for u, and record them in your passport if necessary. I wouldnt neglect the flu vaccine to be honest..Flu in horses is a terrible dose and really takes a lot out of the horse and can linger for a long time and set a horse back months if it gets a grip on him.

Lobelia Overhill

MDFM wrote: »

You are required, by law, to have a passport for your horse,

I got his blue passport when I bought him I've never seen a horse passport before (didn't have them back in my day!) I'm not sure what it's for, who issued it etc ... I do know it's blue because only his sire's bloodlines are on it.

with regard to tetanus/flu jabs, you should certainly keep on top of these. ask the previous owner how often he/she vaccinated. The most common flu vaccine now used also contains a tetanus vaccine, well the ones we get our horses do anyway, so your vet will administer these for u, and record them in your passport if necessary. I wouldn't neglect the flu vaccine to be honest..Flu in horses is a terrible dose and really takes a lot out of the horse and can linger for a long time and set a horse back months if it gets a grip on him.

I'll look into that then, cheers!

MDFM

Lobelia Overhill wrote: »

I got his blue passport when I bought him I've never seen a horse passport before (didn't have them back in my day!) I'm not sure what it's for, who issued it etc ... I do know it's blue because only his sire's bloodlines are on it.


Well then the blue passport will suffice you so. Unless you intend you proceed and compete in afiliated competitions, like SJI, you will need to have the horse re-registered in your name. for example, for SJI, to do this you can send the passport back to SJI, they will amend the ownership details on it and send it back to you, but change of ownership does incur a fee. But if you're not competing in afiliated classes, i wouldnt bother changing the passport to show you as the owner. All that matters is that you have in your possession a valid passport for your horse:):)

Chindato

Yes, the British Horse Society have an Ireland branch. Irish people can join, and enjoy all the benefits of membership. BHS Ireland has its own staff, based in Northern Ireland, and they run training events throughout Ireland all year round. They also run Adult Summer Camps (I think there are still a few places left on the ones towards the end of June)

Membership costs about €80 for the year (IIRC) and that includes all kinds of discount schemes, a quarterly magazine posted to your door and full public liability insurance on all your horses.

Check out www.bhsireland.com

I know you can get a flu/ tetanus shot to administer yourself, but that won't do for your vaccination record - the vet has to stamp the passport and put in the sticker that comes with the shot. Without this, you have no proof that your horse's vaccs are up to date, and therefore may be turned away from some venues (tbh, I've never seen anyone bother to check the vaccs, but it is a requirement of many organisations)

There is no need to vaccinate for EIA unless your horse intends to travel to France

hth
Chindato

Chindato

Lobelia Overhill wrote: »

I've never seen a horse passport before (didn't have them back in my day!) I'm not sure what it's for, who issued it etc

If it's blue, it's been issued by the Irish Horse Register - the registration arm of the old Irish Horse Board - now part of Horse Sport Ireland.
In other words, your horse is registered with the official register of Irish Sport Horses, in its supplementary section (with only partial breeding recorded - your horse needs to be out of a fully registered mare and by an approved sire in order to qualify for registration into the main Register and get a green book)

Chindato

...to answer your question about whether flu jabs are strictly necessary, opinion seems to be divided on this one:

- on the one side, flu does knock the stuffing out of a horse
- on the other side, the vaccine is not without risk - some horses react badly to it. I know a person who didn't rest his horse for the few days following his horse's regular shot (ie it wasn't the first time the horse had been vaccinated), and the horse dropped with a heart attack after a moderate work session. Another person I know swears that her horse developed a heart murmur after being given the vaccine (but this may be down to the vet who did the first check being a bit on the deaf side!)

If you are going to vaccinate for flu, be aware that for the vaccine to give full coverage, it needs to be boosted within 6 weeks of the first shot. So giving a horse the combined tet/flu jab once a year does not give the horse coverage for flu unless the horse receives the second flu jab within the six weeks.

hth
Chindato

MDFM

Chindato wrote: »

...to answer your question about whether flu jabs are strictly necessary, opinion seems to be divided on this one:

- on the one side, flu does knock the stuffing out of a horse
- on the other side, the vaccine is not without risk - some horses react badly to it. I know a person who didn't rest his horse for the few days following his horse's regular shot (ie it wasn't the first time the horse had been vaccinated), and the horse dropped with a heart attack after a moderate work session. Another person I know swears that her horse developed a heart murmur after being given the vaccine (but this may be down to the vet who did the first check being a bit on the deaf side!)

If you are going to vaccinate for flu, be aware that for the vaccine to give full coverage, it needs to be boosted within 6 weeks of the first shot. So giving a horse the combined tet/flu jab once a year does not give the horse coverage for flu unless the horse receives the second flu jab within the six weeks.

hth
Chindato

Is that only the case whereby the horse has never received vaccinations in the past? If he's being vaccinated for the 1st time ever, he will certainly need another booster jab within 6 weeks.

Lobelia Overhill

MDFM wrote: »

Well then the blue passport will suffice you so. Unless you intend you proceed and compete in affiliated competitions, like SJI, you will need to have the horse re-registered in your name. for example, for SJI, to do this you can send the passport back to SJI, they will amend the ownership details on it and send it back to you, but change of ownership does incur a fee. But if you're not competing in affiliated classes, i wouldn't bother changing the passport to show you as the owner. All that matters is that you have in your possession a valid passport for your horse:):)

Kewl, thanks for that!

Chindato wrote: »

Yes, the British Horse Society have an Ireland branch. Irish people can join, and enjoy all the benefits of membership.

and thank you for that!

There is no need to vaccinate for EIA unless your horse intends to travel to France

LOL

Chindato wrote: »

If it's blue, it's been issued by the Irish Horse Register - the registration arm of the old Irish Horse Board - now part of Horse Sport Ireland.

Ah!

Chindato wrote: »

...to answer your question about whether flu jabs are strictly necessary, opinion seems to be divided on this one:

- on the one side, flu does knock the stuffing out of a horse
- on the other side, the vaccine is not without risk

Yeah, I was wondering about side effects of the jab itself ... and every horse would be different, seems too much of a coincidence the number of horses that have "gone wrong" after a jab. I've never actually heard of a horse going down with flu anyways Can you give them echinacea?

MDFM wrote: »

Is that only the case whereby the horse has never received vaccinations in the past? If he's being vaccinated for the 1st time ever, he will certainly need another booster jab within 6 weeks.

I would have thought that myself ...

Thanks everyone for your help!

convert

Lobelia Overhill wrote: »

Yeah, I was wondering about side effects of the jab itself ... and every horse would be different, seems too much of a coincidence the number of horses that have "gone wrong" after a jab. I've never actually heard of a horse going down with flu anyways

As with any medication in any species, there is always a risk, but it's a tiny one when the statistics are taken into consideration.

I'd recommend you vaccinate your horse, especially if you'll be competing him or if he's kept in a livery yard where horses are frequently transported in and out of the yard. I remember a few years ago one of our horses contracted the horse flu virus and it was awful. She was so sick and weak for a long time and required several visits from the vet, in addition to lots of antibiotics. It took her a long time to recover. She hadn't had the flu vaccine because she had only been brought into the yard to be broken (she had been out in the field until then, and had no contact with the horses who were competing and hunting). The other horses who had the vaccine thankfully didn't contract the flu, probably partly due to the fact that we have an isolation box and were able to stable her away from the other horses, but I also think that the fact they were vaccinated also played a role.

Chindato

Chindato wrote: »

...to answer your question about whether flu jabs are strictly necessary, opinion seems to be divided on this one:

- on the one side, flu does knock the stuffing out of a horse
- on the other side, the vaccine is not without risk - some horses react badly to it. I know a person who didn't rest his horse for the few days following his horse's regular shot (ie it wasn't the first time the horse had been vaccinated), and the horse dropped with a heart attack after a moderate work session. Another person I know swears that her horse developed a heart murmur after being given the vaccine (but this may be down to the vet who did the first check being a bit on the deaf side!)

If you are going to vaccinate for flu, be aware that for the vaccine to give full coverage, it needs to be boosted within 6 weeks of the first shot. So giving a horse the combined tet/flu jab once a year does not give the horse coverage for flu unless the horse receives the second flu jab within the six weeks.

hth
Chindato

The amount of crap that goes on about vaccinations is unreal. The vast majority of horses are vaccinated, these develop no side effects. Occasionaly, a horse will develp an issue, but this is extraordinarily rare and often associated with other issues that a horse may have.

I would consider it much worse to be carting unvaccintated horses around the county or country and brining them into contact with other horses.

MDFM

I rem about 3 years ago my friend's horse got Flu.. it was not pleasant, obviously not for the horse, but to watch the horse deteriorate and suffer, it was awful. He was out of action for months afterwards and even when he did get over it, getting him back into good health and fitness was a slow process. I vaccinate all my horses and i dont allow any horse into the yard without proof of his vaccines up to date. the hassle is just not worth it.

Chindato

Deleted User wrote: »

The amount of crap that goes on about vaccinations is unreal.

Hello Zaraba,
I'm sure you didn't intend that remark to be as judgemental as it has come across.

My post looked at both options, and gave some pros and cons around them. The examples of things going wrong were real and I had personal knowledge of both incidents, so was happy to offer them as information to help others weigh up the risks.

At the end of the day, it is a personal choice that every horse owner has to make, as they are the person who will live with the consequences.

Beware of trying to push someone else into doing what you believe is the right thing - even when you're right, if something goes wrong, you'll be blamed.

For what it's worth, all six of mine received their jabs from a vet last week, and their passports were all stamped and signed.

Chindato

Hobbidance

My vet (top-notch sport horse vet and imo couldn't have a better man to trust with my horse) gives my guys flu+tet, then booster after 3 weeks, then another booster at 6 months. I've never had any horse with any side effects and never been unfortunate enough to have a horse come down with flu (knock on wood).

To the OP as well, it's not just if you're bringing your horse anywhere else, like the case mentioned above if a horse comes into your yard with flu and your horse catches it then it's not going to be worth the after-care when you can easily stop it from happeneing. Preventation is always the best cure!

Lobelia Overhill

thanks all for the different views etc

eegeet

Influenza is highly contagious, attacking the respiratory tract, and in serious cases can lead to permanent lung damage. An unvaccinated horse coming into contact with the virus, is virtually guaranteed to contract it. If you are competing your horse will be required to be vaccinated every six months. If you are not competing, many vets will be of the opinion that an annual vaccination is sufficient.

We always rest horses (just walking exercise) for three days after vaccination. Occasionally there will be a mild reaction, which can also happen with the human flu vaccine. It is a sign of the vaccine working. Although I have read some reports of other reactions, I have never witnessed an adverse reaction. We vaccinate about 20 horses per year and have never encountered a problem. I have however seen a very talented horse left with permanent damage from flu.

The tetanus vaccine is a must in my opinion. Horses are very highly susceptible to this terrible painful disease, often resulting in the death of the horse. The bacterium which cause tetanus can remain in soil or stable dust for more than 10 years.

There is a combined flu/tet vaccine, however the tetanus vaccine is normally given every other year.

Don’t forget to make sute your own tetanus vaccination is up to date as well.

fits

Personally I would make sure my animals are vacc'd against flu and tet, but I wouldnt be giving them boosters every six months unless they were out and about *a lot*.

convert

Hobbidance wrote: »

My vet (top-notch sport horse vet and imo couldn't have a better man to trust with my horse) gives my guys flu+tet, then booster after 3 weeks, then another booster at 6 months.

I thought that the booster after 3 weeks and 6 months was only necessary for the first vaccination, or if the horse hadn't been vaccinated for a while - i.e. if the vaccination was out of date - and that an annual vaccination was required thereafter. I know that's what the Turf Club requires; I had assumed it was the same for every governing body?

MDFM

convert wrote: »

I thought that the booster after 3 weeks and 6 months was only necessary for the first vaccination, or if the horse hadn't been vaccinated for a while - i.e. if the vaccination was out of date - and that an annual vaccination was required thereafter. I know that's what the Turf Club requires; I had assumed it was the same for every governing body?

yes, thats the principle my current vet and last vet operates on anyway. My mare that i rescued last spring, had never got a vaccine before, so after her initial vaccine, she required a booster after 6 weeks. We vaccinated her again in the early part of this year and will do so again before year-end. After that, as she goes no where, we'll only vaccinate her once a year. The older horse (16) is now only vaccinated once year, since last year, while the younger one (5) we're still vaccinating him twice a year. But for those 2, they never receive a booster after 3-6 weeks, all their other vaccines are up to date and there's no need so.

Hobbidance

Yes that's for the first vaccine (or if it hasn't been vaccinated regularly). After the 6 month booster if your horse travels alot of is in a yard where there's alot of traffic then it's every 6 months the horse will get another booster. If your horse doesn't go anywhere very regularly and isn't exposed to many different horses then it's fine to then boost annualy. I have two ponies at home that only get it done annually, they never go anywhere tbh and we don't have many horses comming in and out of our yard at home anymore either.
My horse however is now in a yard where alot of different horses come and go and were's right in the middle of quite alot of stud farms and breeding yards where horses and foals are transported back and forth from england and other yards on a frequent basis, pluis some of our horses go to germany and the like for training and come back after a few months. So I will be having him boosted every 6 months just in case of any outbreaks. I personnaly wouldn't be able to afford having my horse get the flu (of course I'd pay for all the medicine etc for however long it took but it would probably put a rather large dent in my pocket) so I'd rather pay to avoid it. Plus I'm also avoiding having a potentially ruined horse from flu.

Its always best to ask your vet what they think would be best for your horse if your not sure and I think most of them would be happy to give you advice.