N40 - Cork City Northern Transportation Project (formerly North Ring Road) [feasibility study]

AugustusMinimus

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057366900

Little summary I did on the present one.

marno21

North Ring Road in the paper this morning

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/corks-northern-ring-road-needed-more-than-the-m20-between-cork-and-limerick-834266.html

Shedite27

marno21 wrote: »

North Ring Road in the paper this morning

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/corks-northern-ring-road-needed-more-than-the-m20-between-cork-and-limerick-834266.html

Definitely think it'll help rebalance the City. When you look at the large scale map of Cork, the Southside of the river is now almost twice as big as the Northside, and a lot of that has been business and residential areas popping up within a few km of the N40. You'd imagine if you had the equivalent on the Northside there'd be development on either side of those too, rather than moving residential areas to Carrigtwohill, Watergrasshill, etc.

(Realise the southside heavily benefits from having all the colleges and hospitals, as well as the Airport)

marno21

Shedite27 wrote: »

Definitely think it'll help rebalance the City. When you look at the large scale map of Cork, the Southside of the river is now almost twice as big as the Northside, and a lot of that has been business and residential areas popping up within a few km of the N40. You'd imagine if you had the equivalent on the Northside there'd be development on either side of those too, rather than moving residential areas to Carrigtwohill, Watergrasshill, etc.

(Realise the southside heavily benefits from having all the colleges and hospitals, as well as the Airport)

There is also the issue of the road network connecting Ballincollig with the N20 and future M40 East. There isn't even a regional road between the area of the N20 Blarney exit and the N40 at Curraheen. It's primarily the local road that goes from Blarney up by Apple and down to Victoria Cross via Shanakiel, then out the Carrigrohane road or out the road to Wilton and the Sarsfield Road R/A.

To think that the replacement is a full motorway grade road and that's what we have at present.

marno21

Unsurprisingly, it's not Athenry that Apple are unhappy about when it comes to Ireland, it's the pisstake of a road network that we have on the Northside of Cork.

Given that Apple are such large employers and willing to expand it would be imprudent not to build the North Ring Road (as if we needed Apple as a reason - it's needed anyway) ahead of projects to "drive growth in the North West".

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Lord-Mayor-tells-Apple-about-priorities-for-Cork-611d7eaf-f8d5-41f8-a982-27dddd3b2c6a-ds

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, it's not Athenry that Apple are unhappy about when it comes to Ireland, it's the pisstake of a road network that we have on the Northside of Cork.

Given that Apple are such large employers and willing to expand it would be imprudent not to build the North Ring Road (as if we needed Apple as a reason - it's needed anyway) ahead of projects to "drive growth in the North West".

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Lord-Mayor-tells-Apple-about-priorities-for-Cork-611d7eaf-f8d5-41f8-a982-27dddd3b2c6a-ds

I believe there will be a link road roughly between where Apple is and the western section of the NRR.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I believe there will be a link road roughly between where Apple is and the western section of the NRR.

There will be some kind of a link road between that area and the M40 if not for Apple to serve the entire area which has rubbish road access.

For someone living in Midleton or along the N25 trying to get to Apple is a disaster. It's no wonder they are complaining because the inaccessibility of the site compared to similar sites along the existing N40 is brutal.

EdgeCase

It's crazy that this wasn't built years ago. Like in Dublin, there's an attitude that the Northside doesn't matter.

I'd agree, the access to the area where Apple is is an absolute embarassment. We should have a big tech campus up there with lots of companies.

It's also a big connectivity hub btw. You've the CIX Cork Internet Exchange located near by and Eir's Churchfield node which has huge onwards connectivity.

Between them, you've direct access to almost every fibre system available and vast international connectivity.

It's actually an ideal site for a huge tech campus, very close to town.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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marno21

EdgeCase wrote: »

It's crazy that this wasn't built years ago. Like in Dublin, there's an attitude that the Northside doesn't matter.

I'd agree, the access to the area where Apple is is an absolute embarassment. We should have a big tech campus up there with lots of companies.

It's also a big connectivity hub btw. You've the CIX Cork Internet Exchange located near by and Eir's Churchfield node which has huge onwards connectivity.

Between them, you've direct access to almost every fibre system available and vast international connectivity.

It's actually an ideal site for a huge tech campus, very close to town.

Whatever about the Northside of Dublin not mattering in the past, they are now getting a €2.4bn high capacity high frequency underground rail system. No word of a North Ring Road for Cork in the National Development save for one line that says if the M20 project results in too much traffic using the existing Blackpool road network, a North Ring to the M8 at Glanmire will be added to the programme.

I agree with you re: location. It's vastly underused and that's mainly down to accessibility. The fact that Apple have such a large campus on a road network without any regional roads even is a testament to how great it could be with proper access.

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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Apple's site was originally a manufacturing site that offered low paying jobs in the area. It was setup there because back then setting up in Cork was perceived as a good place to set up for cheap manufacturing, a bit like how all the manufacturing jobs in Dell in Limerick moved further and further east to cut costs. Things are differentg now though.

Kiely's Cross is on the N25 between Youghal and Dungarvan, and at only 65km from Cork it's not a bad place to commute from. Of course, had Transport21 been implemented in full, it would be a motorway commute from Youghal all the way to a junction on the M40 North Ring near Apple, taking 30-40 minutes depending on local traffic at Apple.

Regarding the N25, there was plans for motorway standard from Carrigtwohill-Youghal, a 2+2 bypass of Dungarvan, motorway standard from Kilmeaden to east of New Ross, 2+2 from New Ross to Rosslare. This has been "amended" to motorway standard to Midleton, and motorway standard from Waterford to east of New Ross by 2027.

The M40 North Ring between the M20 eastbound will tie into the M8 at Killydonoghue north of Glanmire. The existing M8 between Glanmire and Dunkettle will be redesignated M40 and tie in directly with the South Ring at Dunkettle.

EdgeCase

That would be a fairly unusual commuter route.

The big issue is that M40 completion would have impacts on vastly more journeys than most of the long distance motorways being proposed.

There are a lot of people very positively impacted by these distributor motorways and a lot made possible.

And I agree, the stuff around Apple's site is bizzare. That whole area should be developed as a tech hub. You've the world's most prestigious anchor, Apple, thousands of employees to support local food and retail. It's weird it was never developed right.

It could be a big classy looking tech campus with a huge view over the city and countryside.

It is one of those places that could be great and would have a massive positive impact on the sorrounding area. For example, even if you didn’t work in tech, if that were a really nice campus there are endless other jobs would open up in other companies locating there, in retail, food services and so on.

The city need more vision.

There’s a huge opportunity to transform that area. If they don’t hurry up, it may be missed.

marno21

EdgeCase wrote: »

The city need more vision.

There’s a huge opportunity to transform that area. If they don’t hurry up, it may be missed.

The city isn't the issue here. The entire M40 North would cost ~€400m and that needs to come from central Government.

The National Development Plan has €6.6bn allocated to national roads, including projects like the M20 (€800m) and the N6 Galway Ring Road (€600m). Most of the rest of it is to be spent on 3 seperate dual carraigeways to the north west (N2/A5, N4, N17) creating a giant replica of Field of Dreams in the hope that all these roads will create a "build it and they will come" jobs utopia.

Meanwhile important projects in Cork on the N22, N25, N71 and M40 remain in limbo. Cork has since the 90s (around the time the tunnel, Carrs Hill access route, Airport Road, Dunkettle-Midleton) been left behind in road terms because it was quite advanced for its time back then. The world has most definitely moved on since and there needs to be something done.

EdgeCase

Making sure the TDs in Cork North and South Central and sorrounding constituencies knew there are votes depending on it might help.

marno21

EdgeCase wrote: »

Making sure the TDs in Cork North and South Central and sorrounding constituencies knew there are votes depending on it might help.

TDs in Cork South Central are busy with their campaigns against the M28 motorway to be supporting motorways

EdgeCase

They're waiting for the advent of Star Trek style transporter technology to deal with access in and out of Carrigaline, I assume?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

TDs in Cork South Central are busy with their campaigns against the M28 motorway to be supporting motorways

Jerry Buttimer (Senator) is the most vocal opponent.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

There will be some kind of a link road between that area and the M40 if not for Apple to serve the entire area which has rubbish road access.

For someone living in Midleton or along the N25 trying to get to Apple is a disaster. It's no wonder they are complaining because the inaccessibility of the site compared to similar sites along the existing N40 is brutal.

As I’ve said in the past, if they only do NRR East at the start, I think they’ll do a small bit past the M20/M40 and provide access for Apple and other local businesses. As you say, that area has shocking access.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

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marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Jerry Buttimer (Senator) is the most vocal opponent.

Micheal Martin has also come out heavily against it. Buttimer is clearly against it because it's an opportunity to make noise and get his name out there given he lost his seat at the last election.

Coveney came out with a statement about needing to take on board the needs of the residents but I would imagine behind the scenes he knows it has to go ahead and wants it done.

MidMan25

marno21 wrote: »

There will be some kind of a link road between that area and the M40 if not for Apple to serve the entire area which has rubbish road access.

For someone living in Midleton or along the N25 trying to get to Apple is a disaster. It's no wonder they are complaining because the inaccessibility of the site compared to similar sites along the existing N40 is brutal.

I commute from Castlemartyr to Apple every day. The leg of the journey from Tivoli to Apple is a real highlight....

I still thank my lucky stars that i'm not trying to get through the tunnel at rush hour though!

marno21

Simon Coveney confirmed on 96FM a while back that the M40 North Ring Road will be built in conjunction with the M20. Surprised it didn't make any headlines. Given it'll be at a junction with a motorway at both ends it'll have to be motorway.

https://soundcloud.com/opinionline96/ireland-2040-whats-in-it-for-cork-unmarked-graves-in-cork-your-haircut-your-business-more

1:30 in.

He says the M40 Western arc will be done "in time".

Kermit.de.frog

My proposal for the M40 - M20 interchange.

AugustusMinimus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My proposal for the M40 - M20 interchange.

And here’s the previous proposal. 100% freeflow.

AugustusMinimus

My view is that even if they are only doing NRR East, the full junction should be built now.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

My view is that even if they are only doing NRR East, the full junction should be built now.

I think that will happen. If TII have the NRR West in mind (which I would be 99% confident they do - regardless of political disinterest), they will build the full junction in anticipation of completing the ring. Not building the other half would be beyond stupid.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

I think that will happen. If TII have the NRR West in mind (which I would be 99% confident they do - regardless of political disinterest), they will build the full junction in anticipation of completing the ring. Not building the other half would be beyond stupid.

The original plans also had a new link road between Apple and the NRR. This would link up to the western section.

IMO, an additional mile or so of the western section should also be built to allow the link road to be built. The rest of the western section can be built later.

Kermit.de.frog

I would object to any ring road being built as two lanes each way given our history with the M50. It should be three lanes.

Aontachtoir

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I would object to any ring road being built as two lanes each way given our history with the M50. It should be three lanes.

Not sure what the projected road usage figures are for the North Ring - if someone has them I would love to hear. I agree that three lanes is best to future-proof but I think we'll get two lanes like most other parts of the N40. Presumably there will be enough land take to allow for three lanes in future.

Kermit.de.frog

Will they leave a wide median though? I don't agree with building narrow medians for this reason and bridges would have to be ripped up. Much cheaper long term to have a wide median.